Author Topic: Where are you on the political spectrum?  (Read 10278 times)

Trembling Eagle

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2009, 04:15:50 PM »
is universal.

2. The same holds for believing that it is always wrong to take another life yet having no problems with taking some lives.  For example, I think abortion is murder, but I'm completely in favor of it.

3.  I can consider atheism is a belief system because it requires the atheist to be certain about something that is unprovable, and that, in my view, requires faith.


.
Abortion really is a tricky moral and philosophical dilemma and you don't have to be a right wing wacko to think so.

Starting with the supposition that human life has value  and should be protected and nurtured whenever possible, if for no other reason than: my life is important and precious to me and I extend that to other humans. The question for me has always been when is the genetic material that makes up a child....human, surely a spermatozoa isn't (*ahem* or some of us would have committed genocide) but at 8 months along I think the child is unmistakably human. But then it does at 7  months too...it becomes a slippery slope. I'm not settled on the matter but I'm living with (in my own mind) once there is any possibility of the child living outside of the womb it is a human life and should be protected.

Don't get me started on the more complex animals, meat eating is becoming a hard position to defend for me.


On the atheism I don't believe it is a "belief system" in the way you are parsing it that smacks of a false equivalency. By belief system you are really just using a stand in for religion and religions require one to have faith which is belief with little to no factual testable evidence (such as God did it and no man can know God). Atheism rather is the rejection of the fantastic where there is no provable or plausible evidence. So can you PROVE to me there is no giant invisible jellybean at the center of the universe that controls all lottery numbers? Maybe but I can always come up with an excuse for why its not apparent in the data, most rational folks would dismiss the idea and go with the more simple answer that lottery numbers are a function of chance.
So atheism is seeing hoof prints and thinking horse instead of zebra.

JP

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2009, 07:47:12 PM »
Boring JP:



I think it's a decent questionnaire.

I believe in:

1. well regulated capitalism
2. helping the poorer classes - who always get screwed
3. Public morality can/should be written into law (for example outlawing porn and having socialized medicine)
4. Freedom from government creeps
1. My Prerogative - Bobby Brown
2. Every Rose Has Its Thorn - Poison
3. Straight Up - Paula Abdul
4. Miss You Much - Janet Jackson
5. I'll Be There For You - Bon Jovi 
6. Toy Solider - Martika 
7. Good Thing - Fine Young Cannibals

JP

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2009, 07:55:12 PM »

So atheism is seeing hoof prints and thinking horse instead of zebra.

Ooooh I like that. 

I like how it isn't condescendingly dismissive of people who are believers - I hate when atheists use occams razor as the begining and end of their argument against God.  Just because it might be more "likely" to be a horse prints, doesn't mean it is not within the rhelm of possibility that a zebra made them.

Also I know well educated, thoughfull people for whom theism is the "horse" in that analogy (ie for them it is a simpler, more likely, more intuitive, more reasonable explanation is that God exists)
1. My Prerogative - Bobby Brown
2. Every Rose Has Its Thorn - Poison
3. Straight Up - Paula Abdul
4. Miss You Much - Janet Jackson
5. I'll Be There For You - Bon Jovi 
6. Toy Solider - Martika 
7. Good Thing - Fine Young Cannibals

buffcoat

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2009, 09:33:12 PM »
Welcome, brother JP.


Any other corporate types who are FOT?  Do you fit in the bottom right quadrant as well?

I really don't appreciate your sarcastic, anti-comedy tone, Bro!

JonFromMaplewood

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2009, 10:16:06 PM »

Any other corporate types who are FOT?  Do you fit in the bottom right quadrant as well?


I am a corporate type, but apparently one full of cognitive dissonance/guilt:

Economic Left/Right: -7.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.69
"I'm riding the silence like John Cage up in this piece." -Tom Scharpling

Trembling Eagle

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2009, 02:02:59 AM »

So atheism is seeing hoof prints and thinking horse instead of zebra.

Ooooh I like that. 

I like how it isn't condescendingly dismissive of people who are believers - I hate when atheists use occams razor as the begining and end of their argument against God.  Just because it might be more "likely" to be a horse prints, doesn't mean it is not within the rhelm of possibility that a zebra made them.

Also I know well educated, thoughfull people for whom theism is the "horse" in that analogy (ie for them it is a simpler, more likely, more intuitive, more reasonable explanation is that God exists)


Or rather seeing hoof prints and thinking: "hmm, 6 dimensional centaur archers that are invisible."

Just because some has a feeling or belief about something doesn't mean one should accept it as being either reasonable or logical. For example I don't even have to stretch with this, it's my real personal belief that steroids are a pretty harmless set of drugs and athletes and enthusiasts should be free to use them as they see fit. Would you accept that belief or would you require SOME evidence some testable verifiable data before the pharmacies start handing d-bol to your 17 year old?

That people hold strong emotional attachments to ideas and concepts doesn't legitimize them, we still have to deal with a rational world. 

Sarah

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2009, 06:12:52 AM »
Who ever said that it did?

Trembling Eagle

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2009, 06:28:58 AM »
Who ever said that it did?

My point is: it doesn't take faith to not believe in the giant jellybean at the center of the galaxy that decides all lottery numbers. Even though you can't prove to me it doesn't. Rather, not believing in that extraordinary claim is the rational conclusion one would make dealing with existence as we know it. Similarly for atheists rejecting supernatural claims for the universe isn't faith but absence of faith.

Sarah

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2009, 11:39:08 AM »
To me, in these matters, any claim to certainty--which goes beyond rejecting countervailing claims based on imperfect or nonexistent evidence--involves faith of a sort. This is my opinion; I do not propose it as a universal standard. 

JP

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2009, 01:26:05 PM »
Who ever said that it did?

My point is: it doesn't take faith to not believe in the giant jellybean at the center of the galaxy that decides all lottery numbers. Even though you can't prove to me it doesn't. Rather, not believing in that extraordinary claim is the rational conclusion one would make dealing with existence as we know it. Similarly for atheists rejecting supernatural claims for the universe isn't faith but absence of faith.

One of the most annoying and ignorant things that atheists do is try and equate God with the absurd to make their point.  The FSM/unicorn garbage.

The fact is there *is* evidence that there is a God but there's no evidence of a jellybean/FSM thing. Now you may not be satisfied with the evidence but that's where the discussion should take place.
1. My Prerogative - Bobby Brown
2. Every Rose Has Its Thorn - Poison
3. Straight Up - Paula Abdul
4. Miss You Much - Janet Jackson
5. I'll Be There For You - Bon Jovi 
6. Toy Solider - Martika 
7. Good Thing - Fine Young Cannibals

daveB from Oakland

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2009, 02:22:23 PM »

I'm not like everybody else ... but I guess I'm pretty similar to a lot of youse guys.


Economic Left/Right: -7.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15





Anyways, why's everybody talking about the Spectrum? Is Blue Oyster Cult playing there? Are youse guys gonna smuggle in some pony kegs?







"He didn't sound like a human when I was talking to him ... he sounded like a shape ... what's that shape of that building ... you know, where the Army lives?" -- Bryce, 11/24/2009

Pidgeon

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2009, 02:26:09 PM »
Who ever said that it did?

My point is: it doesn't take faith to not believe in the giant jellybean at the center of the galaxy that decides all lottery numbers. Even though you can't prove to me it doesn't. Rather, not believing in that extraordinary claim is the rational conclusion one would make dealing with existence as we know it. Similarly for atheists rejecting supernatural claims for the universe isn't faith but absence of faith.

One of the most annoying and ignorant things that atheists do is try and equate God with the absurd to make their point.  The FSM/unicorn garbage.

The fact is there *is* evidence that there is a God but there's no evidence of a jellybean/FSM thing. Now you may not be satisfied with the evidence but that's where the discussion should take place.

I'm an atheist, and the whole FSM/Unicorn thing just infuriates me whenever someone mentions it. It's just so played out, it's ridiculous.


buffcoat

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2009, 02:38:42 PM »
To me, in these matters, any claim to certainty--which goes beyond rejecting countervailing claims based on imperfect or nonexistent evidence--involves faith of a sort. This is my opinion; I do not propose it as a universal standard. 

Oh, dear, we agree on something else.

I distrust certainty most of all.  Whenever three people are in total agreement about anything, I start thinking about Jonestown.
I really don't appreciate your sarcastic, anti-comedy tone, Bro!

Sarah

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2009, 02:59:19 PM »
Or reaching for your revolver?

buffcoat

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Re: Where are you on the political spectrum?
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2009, 03:06:12 PM »
Or reaching for your revolver?

Mine has a magazine.  Unless you were quoting from Moby?
I really don't appreciate your sarcastic, anti-comedy tone, Bro!