FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chris L on December 31, 2007, 11:15:53 AM
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Since everyone is going to be watching this at different times I thought I'd start a new thread in case anyone wants to discuss it. Also, even though it's going up a week early On Demand again I think we should avoid spoilers at least until the episodes air Sunday night.
That said, I watched the first episode and I think Odin, Jesus and Santa Claus must have banded together to create the most immaculate hour of television I've ever seen (actually I had a few problems with it, so maybe it was more like Greg Oden, Jesus from THE BIG LEBOWSKI and Fred Claus banding together).
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I liked it. I'll be interested to see where the newspaper angle takes the show. I don't want to be too specific in case folks are reading who haven't had a chance to watch.
I posted this elsewhere, but it can't hurt to have it here - The Baltimore Sun doesn't like the new season:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/custom/altoday/bal-al.wire30dec30,0,3409351.story
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It was like they packed an entire season of plot into one episode using some futuristic form of narrative winrar. I'm really worried for about every character on here (except for Marlo of course). Losing this and Sopranos in the same 12 month period is really making me a very unhappy boy.
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besides all that this season got off to a bang
I'm going to miss it when it closes up for good
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Really? All that journalistic jargon was killing me (and I even understood some of it). Is this supposed to be a drama or a Fred Wiseman documentary (btw, a bunch of his movies just became available on dvd)? I wish David Simon would make up his mind.
Also, I think he's painted himself into a corner by trying to juggle too many story lines at once. He ends up tossin in dead weight scenes just to keep us up to date on all the characters. Did we really need two scenes of Bubbles moping around in his sister's basement? Wouldn't one have sufficed to let us know what was up with Bubs?
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OK, so much for waiting. :P
At first I was most apprehensive about seeing the "Major Crimes is being shut down" and "McNulty's a drunk asshole" plotlines AGAIN but then it occured to me I should really have more faith in where the former storyline is going by now, and that McNulty is probably finally headed for the all-time, uncomfortable-to-watch fall of falls.
After one episode, the only thing I'm sure about concerning the newspaper storyline is that I'm going to love watching Clark Johnson throughout. But that Baltimore Sun article and another article I read somewhere about Simon's relationship with his former boss (Lt. Marimou [sic] from season 4 was named after him) does have me worried about the amount of axe grinding to come.
A couple other things:
- Steve Earle's version of the theme really blows
- I notice that the actors that play Clay Davis (yay) and Maury Levy (boo) are in the featured cast credits this year, so looks like we'll be seeing plenty of them.
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Yeah, I'm kinda curious to see where McNulty ends up but I'm also a bit scared for him. If we're making guesses as to possible plot developments, I'm thinking McNulty's going to try applying pressure to the bosses to get Major Crimes back on the murders by leaking a story to the newspaper, and I'm thinking it's going to end badly for him.
Yes, Steve Earle's version of the song kinda sucks. I hope we don't see too much of him this season. I've already heard plenty of warnings that the newsroom stuff is packed with Simon's non-actor buddies, so less in other areas of the show would be good.
I also noticed Frankie Faison is not listed in the opening credits anymore, so I guess we're going to see less of Burrell. I can't remember if the actors playing Namond and Randy were listed. I'll have to check when Ep. 2 airs.
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I can't remember if the actors playing Namond and Randy were listed.
They aren't, although Michael and Dukie are, of course. Not sure if Bunny or Prez are supposed to be back either, although Cutty is in the season 5 trailer.
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Not sure if Bunny or Prez are supposed to be back
There's footage of Bunny with a goatee in one of those specials currently on HBO on Demand, and since he's never sported facial hair in the other seasons, I've gotta assume that means he'll appear at least once this season.
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After half a year, I finally figured out what show ya'll were talking about, but down here we call it "The Wahr"
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Edit: I posted this in the wrong Wire thread. The game is rigged.
I just wanted to say that Season Five Episode Two was absolutely stunning.
That opening monologue hit me in the gut, and the rest of the episode did not let me recover.
A++
Love,
The Boy Who Cried The WireTheWireTheWire
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Did you scalp an advance dvd of the series, Dorvid, or does HBO pipe in episodes of The Wire earlier to the Baltimore/D.C. area?
Speaking of the "McNulty's a drunk asshole" theme, I've got to ask can any of these cops hold their liquor? Every time they drink they get sloppy. It's embarrassing to drunken cops everywhere.
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Speaking of the "McNulty's a drunk asshole" theme, I've got to ask can any of these cops hold their liquor? Every time they drink they get sloppy. It's embarrassing to drunken cops everywhere.
Have you tapped into a bottomless well of Wire complaints or something? At this point I have no choice but to salute you... you're like Daniel Day Lewis in There Will Be Blood, except with David Simon critiques instead of oil.
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What can I say, Chris L., the show continues to rub me the wrong way. Maybe because I have been hearing for so long how great it is. I think it's a good show, not a great one.
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I meant the above as encouragment, by the way.
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Have you tapped into a bottomless well of Wire complaints or something? At this point I have no choice but to salute you... you're like Daniel Day Lewis in There Will Be Blood, except with David Simon critiques instead of oil.
There Will Be Crabcakes.
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just watched the season 5 premiere. it was an enjoyable hour of tv. I think the rest of the season may be enjoyable hours of tv as well.
for you eggheads, here's some discussion: David Simon and the Audacity of Despair (http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/01/david_simon_and_the_audacity_o.php#comment-1068461)
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for you eggheads, here's some discussion: David Simon and the Audacity of Despair (http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/01/david_simon_and_the_audacity_o.php#comment-1068461)
Make sure you find David Simon's response in the comments section. Mike, you'll be pleased to note he quotes Camus in there!
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Wow. And he throws in Toynbee and Chomsky to boot! Color me impressed!
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"Hey guys, did I tell you the one about the copy machine yet?"
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/SHhxZ4BWeBQ[/youtube]
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Yeah, I remembered that Homicide episode as soon as they started into that routine. I think it's another of those things that really happened that Simon put in the Homicide book. It does seem a little less likely that someone in 2007 would be completely unfamiliar with a copy machine, but what do I know?
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It does seem a little less likely that someone in 2007 would be completely unfamiliar with a copy machine, but what do I know?
As a former copy shop owner, Stringer Bell must have rolled in his grave.
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Also, I watched episode 2 last night. So much for worrying about McNulty's storyline being more of the same.
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Yeah, I remembered that Homicide episode as soon as they started into that routine. I think it's another of those things that really happened that Simon put in the Homicide book. It does seem a little less likely that someone in 2007 would be completely unfamiliar with a copy machine, but what do I know?
Not for me
I met someone who didn't know what a ATM was before.
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Also, I watched episode 2 last night. So much for worrying about McNulty's storyline being more of the same.
Nooo kidding. I can't say I saw that coming.
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I gotta admit, the McNulty storyline could be good (although I question why he would pull that stunt right in front of Bunk except to set up Bunk's moral dilemma).
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Stayed up late to watch episode 3. We'll see how it settles in, but for now let's just say I'm warming up my Comic Book Guy impression.
On another note: Wow @ the continuity - the girl who spoke at Bubbles' meeting is the one who doesn't feel like making small talk while buying drugs from her car in Hamsterdam in season 3. Apparently she was also tricking outside of Andre's store in season 4, which I don't remember as well. The actress is Richard Price's daughter, so I guess it wasn't hard for them to remember her.
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The actress is Richard Price's daughter, so I guess it wasn't hard for them to remember her.
Well I'm glad they gave her that monologue because she hit it out of the park, ectoplasm or not.
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On another note: Wow @ the continuity - the girl who spoke at Bubbles' meeting is the one who doesn't feel like making small talk while buying drugs from her car in Hamsterdam in season 3. Apparently she was also tricking outside of Andre's store in season 4, which I don't remember as well. The actress is Richard Price's daughter, so I guess it wasn't hard for them to remember her.
Another long-forgotten character that has reappeared this season - the homicide detective who McNulty wants to overhear his conversations about the red ribbon was, I believe, the guy who arrested D'Angelo Barksdale. He appeared in the very first episode of the series. After McNulty witnessed the security guard change her story in the courtroom, he went and found that guy and told him his case had just hit the wall.
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On another note: Wow @ the continuity - the girl who spoke at Bubbles' meeting is the one who doesn't feel like making small talk while buying drugs from her car in Hamsterdam in season 3. Apparently she was also tricking outside of Andre's store in season 4, which I don't remember as well. The actress is Richard Price's daughter, so I guess it wasn't hard for them to remember her.
Another long-forgotten character that has reappeared this season - the homicide detective who McNulty wants to overhear his conversations about the red ribbon was, I believe, the guy who arrested D'Angelo Barksdale. He appeared in the very first episode of the series. After McNulty witnessed the security guard change her story in the courtroom, he went and found that guy and told him his case had just hit the wall.
I believe you are correct. Nice catch. Also nice to see Ray Cole return via his old file.
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Episode 3 was hands down the worst one in the show's history, containing probably the single worst scene (Lester/McNulty) and worst line of dialogue ("We have to kill again") as well. Lester has a well-documented subversive streak but the idea that he'd go along with such an obviously cracked idea after 15 seconds' consideration is ridiculous. Not to mention you think even he would have more self-preservation than to hitch his wagon to McDumbshit's star.
Then there's the sudden globetrotting; Marlo flying all the way to Antilles to make sure his money is physically at the bank - and being oblivious to the hot French girl - was kinda funny, but the Omar scene was set up and executed like a bad revenge B-movie.
Also, it makes sense to weave in the Sun as another failing institution, but I'm thinking that storyline might have been weakened by the shorter episode order, as everyone there has been too narrowly defined so far. The cliches of the virtuous old school Newspapermen butting heads with the clueless whiter-than-white bosses and young hotshots have been uncharacteristically glaring, and the whole thing isn't working for me yet. I'm guessing/hoping that they at least develop Templeton a little more before he fucks over whoever he's going to fuck over.
On a more positive note, the Six Flags thing was great. And happily, episode 54 was written by Ed Burns and bears more resemblence to the show again.
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if that had been Stringer Bell headed to the islands to check up on his cash, you know he would have picked up a Rosetta Stone cd to listen to on the plane ride to at least get the rudiments down.
I really, really hope that this season veers away from being so McNulty-centric. I coulda done without that last drunk-at-the-bar-again/ picking up a random woman scene. I get it: he's a total anti-hero. now, maybe give Kima a line or two.
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I agree with not making it so McNulty-centric, and I agree that Lester would be unlikely to tilt so hard at a windmill, but...
This whole storyline is COMPLETELY in keeping with McNulty's character. In fact, Season 4 McNulty is the abberation. He has a self-destructive streak that's completely amazing.
It's still a good show. But I don't like the Sun angle, and I'm tired of Marlo the Magnificient Super Bad Guy. Stringer Bell and Avon had their flaws as gangsters/stas. What's Marlo's flaw? Nobody's perfect.
And I expected Hannibal Lecter to be following Omar and his pal.
How many episodes are there this season?
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I agree with not making it so McNulty-centric, and I agree that Lester would be unlikely to tilt so hard at a windmill, but...
This whole storyline is COMPLETELY in keeping with McNulty's character. In fact, Season 4 McNulty is the abberation. He has a self-destructive streak that's completely amazing.
It's still a good show. But I don't like the Sun angle, and I'm tired of Marlo the Magnificient Super Bad Guy. Stringer Bell and Avon had their flaws as gangsters/stas. What's Marlo's flaw? Nobody's perfect.
And I expected Hannibal Lecter to be following Omar and his pal.
How many episodes are there this season?
Marlo's flaw I think they point out plainly is he's so raw and without principals
steps on people when he doesn't have to.
Only 10 eps this season
and they look to be keeping on pace
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More continuity fun in episode 4:
One of the homeless guys drinking under the bridge was the dockworker who stole cars with Ziggy in season two.
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More continuity fun in episode 4:
One of the homeless guys drinking under the bridge was the dockworker who stole cars with Ziggy in season two.
thats crazy
you could make a whole other show about the Wire-verse
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I liked Episode 4 better, although this whole season is starting to feel like a surreal coda to Season 4. Where everyone pulled off their regular Joe costumes and revealed that they were Superheroes after all.
The end was a bit surprising, though they'd been setting it up for awhile.
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Episode 3 was hands down the worst one in the show's history, containing probably the single worst scene (Lester/McNulty) and worst line of dialogue ("We have to kill again") as well. Lester has a well-documented subversive streak but the idea that he'd go along with such an obviously cracked idea after 15 seconds' consideration is ridiculous. Not to mention you think even he would have more self-preservation than to hitch his wagon to McDumbshit's star.
The "we have to kill again" line was a bit showy and annoying, but I didn't mind it too much. It wouldn't have worked coming out of anyone else's mouth.
As for Lester going along with such a dumb idea not being believable, consider the fact that Bunny Colvin went along with an even dumber idea in season 3, he did it with less encouragement, and he had much more to lose than Lester does. And he didn't even have the subversive streak (not that we could see, anyway). Just something to consider.
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Hamsterdam was an even dumber idea than this? Wha?!
(I disagree.)
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Hamsterdam was an even dumber idea than this? Wha?!
(I disagree.)
I'm not saying the idea of legalizing drugs is necessarily dumb, but the way he went about it certainly was.
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I think Lester just realizes how little he DOES have to lose. If it all blows up, it's McNulty the drunken cop that takes the heat. Jimmy wouldn't rat anybody out ever, especially Lester, and Lester seems like he's being careful to limit his involvement. Hell, he's not even on the cases. McNulty is the one in the homicide department talking it up, McNulty is the one leaking it to the press, McNulty is the one who lied to the ME. No, Lester is watching a man digging his own grave and has decided to at least try for some good to come out of it.
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I don't get The Wire. And by that, I don't mean I don't "get" The Wire, that I don't understand it, or its appeal, but that, not being an HBO subscriber, The Wire doesn't get into my home.
Having said that, I listened to an episode of Sound of Young America during which our pal Jesse spent 55 minutes slobbering all over two cast members from the show, one who plays a junkie called Bubbles, and the other who plays a cop with a short name (Bunk? Shad? Thor? Something like that.)
The thrust of the interview seemed to be that the show was so great because it made junkies likable, more three-dimensional, and it made drug-traders more sympathetic.
Ignoring the fact that I can't think of almost anything I would less like than to make drug-dealers more sympathetic, I at least got insight into the hate pits, the people in them, and the deeds that placed them there. Surely it's just that we don't see the three-dimensional fullness of Mickey Dolenz, that if we only understood what he went through, he would be more sympathetic, and we would be appreciative of the pressures in his life that forced him to blow off our pal Tom. If only we knew him more fully, his life could be an example to us, and we could learn to love his flaws, and use those flaws to shed light on the dark corners of our own lives, our own feeble attempts at impersonating Jimmy Cagney, and to be better people by virtue of being more empathetic to those we would otherwise casually dismiss.
Bob Saget, we hardly know ye!!!
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I think Lester just realizes how little he DOES have to lose. If it all blows up, it's McNulty the drunken cop that takes the heat. Jimmy wouldn't rat anybody out ever, especially Lester, and Lester seems like he's being careful to limit his involvement. Hell, he's not even on the cases. McNulty is the one in the homicide department talking it up, McNulty is the one leaking it to the press, McNulty is the one who lied to the ME. No, Lester is watching a man digging his own grave and has decided to at least try for some good to come out of it.
That's a pretty good point. Bunk also made clear he wanted his name nowhere near it and given the capability of the Baltimore PD McNulty should at least be capable of obfuscating their involvment, with the emphasis on should.
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Ignoring the fact that I can't think of almost anything I would less like than to make drug-dealers more sympathetic, I at least got insight into the hate pits, the people in them, and the deeds that placed them there. Surely it's just that we don't see the three-dimensional fullness of Mickey Dolenz, that if we only understood what he went through, he would be more sympathetic, and we would be appreciative of the pressures in his life that forced him to blow off our pal Tom. If only we knew him more fully, his life could be an example to us, and we could learn to love his flaws, and use those flaws to shed light on the dark corners of our own lives, our own feeble attempts at impersonating Jimmy Cagney, and to be better people by virtue of being more empathetic to those we would otherwise casually dismiss.
this might explain a bit.
(http://kickthebobo.com//circus%20boy.jpg)
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this might explain a bit.
(http://kickthebobo.com//circus%20boy.jpg)
These hoppers get wilder every year.
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No Wire trivia is too boring!! :-\ The mortage fraud charge carrying 30 years that they talk about pinning on Clay Davis was one of the counts Ed Norris was indicted on (http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=10016) in real life.
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this might explain a bit.
(http://kickthebobo.com//circus%20boy.jpg)
These hoppers get wilder every year.
The game got more fierce.
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I've been thinking on this since the last episode (on-demand), and it's really starting to bother me: Marlo's Stoic Face
(http://kickthebobo.com//marlo.jpg)(http://kickthebobo.com//marlo.jpg)(http://kickthebobo.com//marlo.jpg)
I mean, could this guy be the least emotive actor EVER?
and in that final scene, I mean PLEASE, he doesn't even BLINK.
More and more I am starting to subscribe to the Surreal Coda theory. Perhaps at the end of the season, during the final shootout, Marlo's back panel flips open exposing wires and batteries.
I still like the show though.
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Have you started noticing handbills appearing in the backgrounds of shots in the office announcing an upcoming trick-skying contest at the precinct picnic?
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All of Baltimore is in a snowglobe.
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All of Baltimore is in a snowglobe in a shower.
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No Wire trivia is too boring!! :-\ The mortage fraud charge carrying 30 years that they talk about pinning on Clay Davis was one of the counts Ed Norris was indicted on (http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=10016) in real life.
Wait, it's illegal to tell people that money given to you by your parents is money they loaned you?
My entire generation is making a break for Mexico.
EDIT: Oh, that's only the case when applying for a mortgage. Phew! 99% of my generation is off the hook.
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All of Baltimore is in a snowglobe.
Or maybe a model train set. Or maybe that the whole train symbolism signifies that the show takes place in the land of Make-Believe.
(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3361/omarkingfridaywh5.jpg)
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I don't get The Wire. And by that, I don't mean I don't "get" The Wire, that I don't understand it, or its appeal, but that, not being an HBO subscriber, The Wire doesn't get into my home.
Having said that, I listened to an episode of Sound of Young America during which our pal Jesse spent 55 minutes slobbering all over two cast members from the show, one who plays a junkie called Bubbles, and the other who plays a cop with a short name (Bunk? Shad? Thor? Something like that.)
The thrust of the interview seemed to be that the show was so great because it made junkies likable, more three-dimensional, and it made drug-traders more sympathetic.
Ignoring the fact that I can't think of almost anything I would less like than to make drug-dealers more sympathetic,...
Aw, c'mon, Dave - One Love. I and I both know it's the only way.
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Wow. Cliffhanger ending to episode 5. What do they think this is, Lost?
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Yes, they do think that. They think it is Lost.
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Wow. Cliffhanger ending to episode 5. What do they think this is, Lost?
Judging by that penultimate scene, I was going to guess Batman.
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Wow. Cliffhanger ending to episode 5. What do they think this is, Lost?
Judging by that penultimate scene, I was going to guess Batman.
I've heard the duster is the new cape.
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just finished ep5 On Demand yesterday. Is it just me, or is anyone else just not feelin' it thus far from this season? Maybe I need to wait until the finale, and then revisit Season 5 as a whole, but right now (at the halfway point) it just feels kind of scattershot, almost like they put it together from outtakes and whatnot. the story just doesn't seem to be moving forward, and they just keep utilizing the same beats over and over (really, did we need ONE MORE scene of Bunk guilt-tripping Jimmy in the 'office'?).
re: Omar the Superhero: I know that he's pulled some crazy shit before, but it all still seemed to take place under the auspices of real-world physics. once you break that seal, you've moved into the realm of ACTION. Please, I hope to god the finale doesn't involve McNulty hanging from a rope attached to a helicopter piloted by Evil Clay Davis.
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just finished ep5 On Demand yesterday. Is it just me, or is anyone else just not feelin' it thus far from this season? Maybe I need to wait until the finale, and then revisit Season 5 as a whole, but right now (at the halfway point) it just feels kind of scattershot, almost like they put it together from outtakes and whatnot. the story just doesn't seem to be moving forward, and they just keep utilizing the same beats over and over (really, did we need ONE MORE scene of Bunk guilt-tripping Jimmy in the 'office'?).
re: Omar the Superhero: I know that he's pulled some crazy shit before, but it all still seemed to take place under the auspices of real-world physics. once you break that seal, you've moved into the realm of ACTION. Please, I hope to god the finale doesn't involve McNulty hanging from a rope attached to a helicopter piloted by Evil Clay Davis.
I wouldn't say I'm "not feeling it," but I am feeling ambivalent about parts of it. For one thing, the newspaper subplot hasn't really justified its presence yet. It seems to be moving at a much slower pace than the rest of the show, like it's on a 12 or 13-episode season pace while the rest is moving at a 10-episode pace.
I know what you mean about Omar. Because I don't know what happened yet, I don't want to necessarily form any conclusions, but I really hope they didn't pull any superhero/Hollywood stuff. However, based on what they've shown, I can't figure they did anything but that. Either he landed on the balcony below or he hit the ground and managed to disguise himself, neither of which is very likely to have happened. Landing on the balcony below is pretty unlikely, and the drop to the ground would either kill or gravely injure you.
Oh, Wire...
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I agree with KTB. Omar's always been an absurd character to me, but I didn't expect him to turn into Spiderman* in Ep. 5.
Also, Cutty's back and he's brought his Sly & the Family Stone box set with him!
*I missed Chris L's Batman allusion earlier in this thread. One love, my brother!
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I cheated and watched some later episodes, and I will say that Omar is not Batman or Spiderman. But there are ways one can jump from that height and not die, particularly if full of adrenaline. And might be some chance Omar would be aware of those methods given his line of work.
But yes, this season is way sensationalistic, and I'm almost wondering if it is intentional, given the stated target of the media and how Simon has been saying that he feels they're only looking for a good story. Or at least to what degree it is intentional.
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Some writers at Salon.com give their thoughts about the latest The Wire episode each week. Thought you guys might be interested. This board is a little dry these days, so I thought, why not put our straws in this milkshake. The one writer, Miller, is a little hard to handle (read: over my head), but the other folks aren't too common.
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2008/02/04/wire_wrap_4/index.html?source=sphere
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Everyone's talking about how "rushed" the season is, but even if they had more time to develop, would the askew, more-satirical tone be any different? David Simon would just be rubbing our faces in Nancy Grace-flavored shit over 13 episodes instead of 10. There are things to like about the serial killer plot, but Hamsterdam worked better because it was more sociologically fascinating, and season four worked partly because there was almost no McNulty.
One of my favorite things about this season is Lester's sizable role, but it's going to be tough watching whatever shit inevtiably befalls him. When he said he was going to quit "but not yet" in episode 6, that sealed it. Bunny Colvin won't be able to envy him.
Will Omar be anything other than a revenge machine this season? Yes, he's gotten more unbelievable over time, but most of my favorite scenes of him (that confrontation w/ Bunk, buying cereal, shopping for court clothes, etc.) don't involve violence. He looks more desperate trying in vain to draw Marlo out, but otherwise his character is regressing almost to the point of "Guy sitting in van" in season one, episode 3.
Does Templeton walk around and do stuff when he's not making up the news or scheming for a new job?
Or does he just sit dormant until Gus' voice triggers his activation system? Weird how we now know more about Chris's personal life than his.
"Everybody Wants to Rule the World" has been running through my head on and off ever since that one bar scene.
I'm registering "bubbles&bobbles.com" before the inevitable Andre Royo/Steve Earle spinoff debuts.
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I've also heard some complaints that they seem to shoehorning in all of these characters from previous season to the detriment of the story, specifically Randy Wagstaff and Nick Sobotka in episode 6. I personally thought both of their appearances worked fine with the story - neither really seemed forced to me. The Randy thing was inevitable but made me sad.
Less sad, though, than the thing with the mentally ill homeless guy at the end of the episode. McNulty and Freamon, even if they don't get fired or convicted for what they're doing, are going to be struggling with that. It'll be interesting to see how that's handled.
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Also, someone else pointed out how ridiculous it was for Carcetti to mention O'Malley as a former mayor during his speech at the docks, since he's supposed to be O'Malley's fictional stand-in. Acknowledging him on the show completely undermines the whole point of the storyline about how hard it is to elect a white mayor. I'm amazed they were that careless.
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Regarding Omar becoming Batman/Spiderman, keep in mind that Mr. Simon has said in interviews that he's the only character not written realistically in the show. Omar's swear jar's empty; maybe he landed in that.
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Omar's swear jar's empty; maybe he landed in that.
Not anymore!
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Am I the only idiot who still doesn't understand all the mumbo jumbo that Lester and McNulty used to explain how they got the wire up on Marlo? Or is it just mumbo jumbo that doesn't really have an explanation (like Omar's aerial stunt)? I'm afraid if I don't figure this out by the time of The Wire final exam, I'm gonna flunk out.
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Did you watch episode 7 yet? Because if you did and you still don't understand, then you might be. That little speech of Lester's was as exposition-y as the show gets.
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I did, but my brain automatically shuts off when they start slinging the cop jargon. I'll watch it again while splashing cold water in my face.
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I did, but my brain automatically shuts off when they start slinging the cop jargon. I'll watch it again while splashing cold water in my face.
I love all the mumbo jumbo speak, but I love reading Ed McBain 87th precinct novels.
Also the Omar Spiderman stuff got a little out of control with episode 6. But as its been stated before Simon has stated that Omar originally was not supposed to last this long on the show.
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McNulty's V-Day crafts project (http://www.recidivism.org/2008/02/happy_valentines_day_homeless.html)!
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I just finished watching Season 4 last night on DVD. I am in a state of television euphoria. I get the feeling from this thread that there is nowhere to go but down in Season 5.
Sigh.
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You're correct so far, this season hasn't touched season four. In fairness, though, we haven't seen the ending yet. Once we see the ending, we can judge. I'm recalling a remark from the commentaries by one of the directors that the end of Season Four was both the climax of the season and the climax of the series. So perhaps it's intentional that it seems to be winding down and losing its suspense. The characters are all reaching the natural conclusions to their individual arcs, and the ones that haven't yet are the only ones that are getting any action.
The primary problem is that the newspaper storyline isn't done in a way that is satisfying to just about anyone. It's the real loser of the cutback from 13 to 10 episodes. With those extra 3, maybe we'd have gotten to know the older newsmen and adjusted to the status quo. Maybe we'd not see the giant leap in McNulty's storyline from nowhere to everywhere. Maybe we would see exactly how much Omar lost from that fall. Having an episode where he just had to sit and recuperate might make it more believable.
As it is, we're seeing a fully plotted, intricate story (much of which was being setup for at least two years) having to be told in record time and a key institution whose story was absolutely necessary to the message of the series that we can't fully understand. Oh well. I'm going to enjoy the ride and wait for Simon's next projects: Generation Kill and his New Orleans thing.
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I just finished watching Season 4 last night on DVD. I am in a state of television euphoria. I get the feeling from this thread that there is nowhere to go but down in Season 5.
Sigh.
Season Five is great. The Wire The Wire The Wire.
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Kind of ironic, Nancy Grace referring to the serial killer as "pure evil," in episode 56, no?
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Wow - also, I HATE season 5 McNulty - what a jerk!
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Wow - also, I HATE season 5 McNulty - what a jerk!
TL he is the same Jerk he has always been through out the whole series. Rewatch series 3 and see how he screws over Daniels
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Yeah, I really started to hate him in season 3. You can tell he even kinda started to hate himself at that point since that's when he went back to patrol.
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I think the cameo appearance of Detective Munch in the latest episode confirms that everything is taking place in the imagination of Tommy Westphall.
The kid is really stepping up his imagination compared to some of his past schlock.
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I think the cameo appearance of Detective Munch in the latest episode confirms that everything is taking place in the imagination of Tommy Westphall.
Then that would mean Law & Order SVU were part of this fantasy. Since Munch drove all the way down from NYC for a drink.
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It's nice to see that Johnny La Rue got in his crane shot at the end.
Also when will that douche of a reporter get found out already, well at least its playing out better then "Shattered Glass".
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RE: Ep 58 (up on demand, airs next week)
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:o
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That was one of the all-time "Oh my God" tv moments, and they foreshadowed it just enough. Had to have gone down that way somehow. And the (non)reactions were great. "Scratch the murder, we don't have room." The "rest of the world," as Dukie called it, will never know.
Also, the FBI profile was one of the funniest scenes ever. And Beadie's speech crushed that "we had something" spiel a few weeks ago. This shit came together just in time.
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More 58 spoilers below:
I really like the anti-climactic nature of the, uh, event. I guess I should've known as soon as they showed the kid dousing the alley cat with lighter fluid. It's not a surprise that it happened, but the off-hand manner in which it happened is really what made it resonate for me.
Even the newspaper stuff is starting to get take off. The next two episodes will be interesting, if only for the amount of stuff still left to cram in (though I saw on HBO's website that the finale actually runs somewhere around 90 minutes).
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(though I saw on HBO's website that the finale actually runs somewhere around 90 minutes).
Yeah, and it won't be available early on demand.
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that scene with the profiler was good for a chuckle.
Does anyone else hear they actor that plays McNulty accent slip on occasion?
nothing really bad just on certain words
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58 SPOILERS
Some thoughts and questions:
- The bit of business with the name tags in the morgue at the end. I couldn't tell if the M.E shook his head as he fixed the tags because he knew who Omar was, or because he was sort of laughing at the unlikelihood of a white gun-shot victim. It was a powerful image either way, I just wondered what the writers were saying there.
- While I never could predict that that little weiner Kenard would be the shooter, it made beautiful sense to have a kid do it, as Omar's always had a soft spot for the hoppers. What I'm curious about is Kenard's motive. Would he be eligible for the $250K bounty? Did he do it for political reasons, to ingratiate himself to Marlo while showing up Michael (who beat Kenard up, if you recall) Or, as Marlo, suggested, did he just do it to see what it was like?
- The FBI profile scene was classic, as was Bunk's exchange with the forensic pathologist.
- The shoe store scene with Poot was very touching. I've always liked Poot; I'm glad he got out of the game.
Call me an apologist, but I've found everything that's happened this season to be believable and fascinating, not rushed, heavy-handed, or sensationalized. Yes, that includes Omar's leap. While I respect some of the dissenting opinions I've read here and other places, I disagree with all of them. In fact, Season Five might be my favorite.
I'm gonna miss this show. :'(
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Just finished 58.
This was the best one of the season, I thought. I'm going to have to think about which season was the best (not this one, I'm sure). It's like Prime Suspect - clearly some seasons are bigger than others, but it's hard to say which one is best.
I don't think this is much of a spoiler - but Omar is supposed to be 47 years old?
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I don't think this is much of a spoiler - but Omar is supposed to be 47 years old?
Huh. That is weird. The card said 1960, but his prequel took place in 1985, and he was about 12 in that.
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Ep 58 SPOILERS continued
I don't think this is much of a spoiler - but Omar is supposed to be 47 years old?
Huh. That is weird. The card said 1960, but his prequel took place in 1985, and he was about 12 in that.
I assume that was another mix up w/ the middle aged white guy. Alma the reporter ID'd him as a "34 year old male."
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That makes some sense - but the white guy looked OLDER than 47?
WHAT IS IT TRYING TO TELL US?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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Relax, buffcoat. I don't think Simon's trying to tell us anything. I think it's just another one of his little gimmicks that doesn't really add up to much, but gets the fanatics yappin.
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Relax, buffcoat. I don't think Simon's trying to tell us anything. I think it's just another one his little gimmicks that doesn't really add up to much, but gets the fanatics yappin.
Wrong David (oooh, I did it again).
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for you eggheads, here's some discussion: David Simon and the Audacity of Despair (http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/01/david_simon_and_the_audacity_o.php#comment-1068461)
Make sure you find David Simon's response in the comments section. Mike, you'll be pleased to note he quotes Camus in there!
For a second I read that as "he quotes Comus in there!" and I was like "No way! Comus!?"
(http://a7.vox.com/6a00cd97023a504cd500cdf7eec307094f-500pi)
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There is one little Omar fact you guys are forgetting. Omar went to the same school as Bunk who was a few years ahead of him.
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How is that relevant?
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How is that relevant?
adds more layers to Bunks....reflection on the state of things?
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How is that relevant?
It was more about that Omar is not the age people were discussing is all
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58 Spoilers
Finest episode of the season by far. Omar's "Spiderman" moment made the way he was killed seem even more pathetic.
Somehow, it managed to make the unusually broad choices (Omar's superpowes, McNulty's utterly insane scheme) make more sense in retrospect. I have a bad feeling about how this whole thing is going to end.
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And then, immediately after it ends, you have to go read "The Final, Suppressed Scene from 'The Wire'" on Slate. I'm waiting until the final episode airs, but I've already seen the first line from it.
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Well someone posted the spoiler on Youtube and its a jaw dropper to see it happen. Since it feels so anticlimatic to a character who was nothing but over the top. But what did I expect this person to go riding out into the sunset guns ablazing.
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And then, immediately after it ends, you have to go read "The Final, Suppressed Scene from 'The Wire'" on Slate. I'm waiting until the final episode airs, but I've already seen the first line from it.
Go ahead and read it. It's not a real scene, it was written as a "thank you" to the crew.
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58 had some great scenes (Omar getting got, the meeting with the FBI, Gus finally getting Templeton, Lester & Senator Davis).
I still do not get the morgue tag thing. what is this, LOST?
I still do not understand how they are going to use their evidence against Marlo, given that it is an illegal wiretap. Is it that they are going to claim "we were looking for the Serial Killer, and we just happened to overhear this major drug deal go down".
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I still do not understand how they are going to use their evidence against Marlo, given that it is an illegal wiretap.
After they use the illegal wire tap to make the bust, they'd claim that all the intelligience was given to them by a C.I.
That's why Sydnor told the investigating cops they didn't have to worry about appearing in court and why Lester kicked Rhonda out of his office.
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I still do not understand how they are going to use their evidence against Marlo, given that it is an illegal wiretap.
After they use the illegal wire tap to make the bust, they'd claim that all the intelligience was given to them by a C.I.
That's why Sydnor told the investigating cops they didn't have to worry about appearing in court and why Lester kicked Rhonda out of his office.
thank you.
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5.8 SPOILERS
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/jrodesiler/kenard.jpg)
Kenard, emulating Omar at the crime scene of the Barksdale shootout (Episode 3.3). David Simon confirmed yesterday that this is definitely Kenard. He had it all mapped out that far back.
"MY TURN TO BE OMAR!" -- Kenard.
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Oh man, we are now only one Kenard-assassination-of-Marlo away from my chat prediction that the season would end with Kenard running the co-op. I'm feeling pretty smart now.
On the other hand, this is going to make it really difficult for my other prediction - Omar battling Chris Partlow and his lethal army of trained rats in the sewers of Baltimore - to pan out.
Any ideas on how Freamon is planning to use Clay Davis now?
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On the other hand, this is going to make it really difficult for my other prediction - Omar battling Chris Partlow and his lethal army of trained rats in the sewers of Baltimore - to pan out.
Not necessarily. Remember that one episode of season 4 where the kids talked about zombies?
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Indeed. Actually, right before that episode where they were speculating about his zombie master abilities, I was trying to figure out who Chris Partlow reminded me of. And that episode made the connection for me: The Digger (http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/0/05/Digger_001.jpg) from Marvel.
If Partlow brings Omar back from the dead just to hunt him in the sewers with his rat army, that would finally win over even the staunchest Season 5 doubters, wouldn't it?
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If Partlow brings Omar back from the dead just to hunt him in the sewers with his rat army, that would finally win over even the staunchest Season 5 doubters, wouldn't it?
Only if Lester is able to decode the rats' squeaks over the wire and determine Partlow's exact location.
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Apparently, according to Sepinwall's blog, David Simon confirms that Kenard's actual first appearance was not in Season Four, but in Season Three, where he was seen by Bunk playing with the other kids saying, "It's MY turn to be Omar!" I thought this was interesting.
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Apparently, according to Sepinwall's blog, David Simon confirms that Kenard's actual first appearance was not in Season Four, but in Season Three, where he was seen by Bunk playing with the other kids saying, "It's MY turn to be Omar!" I thought this was interesting.
Awesome!
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I'd have to see some photo proof before I believe it.
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Well, I just took Simon's word. It's easy enough to prove/disprove, since the actor would be able to say if he was lying, so I doubt he would be doing so. Not only that, but Thuliso Dingwall's resume on IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2569419/resume) lists Season 3 as one of his credits.
Someone on TWoP put a montage of photos (http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/jrodesiler/kenard.jpg) from that scene together. It's hard to tell, but I can see the resemblance.
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Well, I just took Simon's word. It's easy enough to prove/disprove, since the actor would be able to say if he was lying, so I doubt he would be doing so. Not only that, but Thuliso Dingwall's resume on IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2569419/resume) lists Season 3 as one of his credits.
Someone on TWoP put a montage of photos (http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/jrodesiler/kenard.jpg) from that scene together. It's hard to tell, but I can see the resemblance.
I think that montage comes from the crime scene of the Barksdale shootout. Episode 3.3.
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I'm no Bunk Moreland, but I noticed Omar wasn't limping when he went into the store. I think Omar sent his brother no heart in as a trap to smoke Kenard out. We'll see in Episode 9, I guess.
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I'm no Bunk Moreland, but I noticed Omar wasn't limping when he went into the store. I think Omar sent his brother no heart in as a trap to smoke Kenard out. We'll see in Episode 9, I guess.
I watched the clip again on youtube Omar is limping.
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I'm no Bunk Moreland, but I noticed Omar wasn't limping when he went into the store. I think Omar sent his brother no heart in as a trap to smoke Kenard out. We'll see in Episode 9, I guess.
I watched the clip again on youtube Omar is limping.
I don't think so. Either way, the Omar/Kenard show down is going to be intense.
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Interesting new Simon interview from Newsweek, where he addresses some of the Season 5 criticisms:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/114438?from=rss
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The Slate pieces on the Wire drive me crazy.
All the nits they feel like picking when the story shifts to an area they know well-- journalism? That's exactly what I feel when journalists write about anything *I* know about. That's how someone somewhere feels whenever a journalist writes anything about anything. Their entire profession is based around simplification and caricature.
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A member named kwygibo on another board I'm on posted this about the criticisms of the newsroom storyline, and I feel it's worth quoting him here:
What other dimensions should they have? Klebanow is fleshed out plenty, he's clearly not 100% behind the orders he's giving but to be effective he has to project like he believes his shit, but then again he's not authoritative so it makes it that much easier for subordinate to call him out on it and look good by comparison. Whiting only appears briefly, how much can be said about him. Templeton acts exactly how someone doing what he is doing might be expected to act, and a not insignificant number of people have done what he's done. Would you have me believe there are no Templetons in the real world when I'm sure we've all met dozens?
There's a lot of copy been written on this issue since the season started, and a lot of it reads defensive, or as if the author doesn't want to piss off their own editors. Klebanow and Whiting are no different from a Valchek, they're just more reserved characters who in their little time on screen haven't been so transparent with their motives as a working class polish police captain for example. Which is completely believable to me, I've known more people like them than I have known people like the characters on the street.
Whiting is a boss who cares about glory and lets subordinates worry about the details. What other dimensions should a minor character like that be expected to have clearly illuminated in his 90 odd seconds on screen? What would make him acceptably multi-dimensional to the critics? Leave aside that every single character being a myriad of conflicting emotions and imperatives is not the very definition of verisimilitude as many critics would have us believe. Some individuals are more simple to sum up than others.
Sum up for me the editors Simon and co should have written instead in the time allowed. As they are they may come off as a fuck you to some people Simon is not fond of. So they're unsympathetic and kind of grey, but their lack of affect speaks as many volumes as the more unsympathetic Clay Davis' surplus of affect, and how much more depth has Davis shown in ten times as much screen time? Not a lot.
Frankly, when these criticisms only come now in this context it seems like it can't be anything but it being too close to home that is the big factor. In fact, the comments of so many published critics have made this aspect of the story more believable.
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Nicely put by kwygibo. I've had similar thoughts about those criticisms but never strung them together and fleshed them out quite so coherently.
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The Slate pieces on the Wire drive me crazy.
All the nits they feel like picking when the story shifts to an area they know well-- journalism? That's exactly what I feel when journalists write about anything *I* know about. That's how someone somewhere feels whenever a journalist writes anything about anything. Their entire profession is based around simplification and caricature.
This guy has been taking the Slate FWDs to task:
http://thefirstannualkrogblog.blogspot.com/
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The Slate pieces on the Wire drive me crazy.
All the nits they feel like picking when the story shifts to an area they know well-- journalism? That's exactly what I feel when journalists write about anything *I* know about. That's how someone somewhere feels whenever a journalist writes anything about anything. Their entire profession is based around simplification and caricature.
If journalism is only based on simplification and caricature, then what is David Simon so mad about? I mean, if that's all it is anyway. . .
I'm not sure how anyone could think that this season isn't a disappointment (admittedly, it's still a very good show, but the fake serial killer/newsroom angle isn't so hot).
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I too found McNulty's clever little plan unbeleivable. Harder for me to stomach was the way Freamon went along with McNulty's idea. Also, season 5's opening theme music is annoying.
That said, I still can't wait to see how it all ends. This season might not be as hot as the previous ones, but it's still pretty good.
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If journalism is only based on simplification and caricature, then what is David Simon so mad about? I mean, if that's all it is anyway. . .
Even he realizes that journalism is over-simplified and doesn't tell the whole story when, for instance, Omar and Prop Joe's deaths aren't seen for the big deals they really are. There is no finger-pointed with those angles, it's just how it is.
What I mean is the way that the Slate guys are picking tiny little nits and making a big deal out of them. But any time a journalist writes about something I happen to know a lot about (law, technology, whatever) there are tons of little things wrong. The wrong terms are used. Similar, but different, categories are conflated. One recurring example is the average journalist's inability to distinguish between different categories of intellectual property. It drives me nuts, but I don't really expect journalists to even have to be up on these things. There are too many details in the world for a generalist to get everything right all the time. That's fine.
The level of nit-picking undertaken by the Slate guys, though ("No one would say that" "That character isn't believable enough" "No one would wear that t-shirt in that situation") is the level of nit-picking that could be unleashed against what they write all the time. Hell, they even get points about the show they are supposed to be talking about wrong.
Writing off a show because some little details about some tiny corner of the world aren't just so is the wrong kind of persnickety.
I'm not sure how anyone could think that this season isn't a disappointment (admittedly, it's still a very good show, but the fake serial killer/newsroom angle isn't so hot).
Sorry, but I just don't agree. I think the newsroom story is great, and the fake serial killer angle is no more far-fetched than any number of fictional contrivances, including ones that have happened in the Wire in past seasons. I like the focus on the crazy, horrible unintended consequences of the lies.
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If journalism is only based on simplification and caricature, then what is David Simon so mad about? I mean, if that's all it is anyway. . .
Even he realizes that journalism is over-simplified and doesn't tell the whole story when, for instance, Omar and Prop Joe's deaths aren't seen for the big deals they really are. There is no finger-pointed with those angles, it's just how it is.
What I mean is the way that the Slate guys are picking tiny little nits and making a big deal out of them. But any time a journalist writes about something I happen to know a lot about (law, technology, whatever) there are tons of little things wrong. The wrong terms are used. Similar, but different, categories are conflated. One recurring example is the average journalist's inability to distinguish between different categories of intellectual property. It drives me nuts, but I don't really expect journalists to even have to be up on these things. There are too many details in the world for a generalist to get everything right all the time. That's fine.
The level of nit-picking undertaken by the Slate guys, though ("No one would say that" "That character isn't believable enough" "No one would wear that t-shirt in that situation") is the level of nit-picking that could be unleashed against what they write all the time. Hell, they even get points about the show they are supposed to be talking about wrong.
Writing off a show because some little details about some tiny corner of the world aren't just so is the wrong kind of persnickety.
I've noticed this too about things I'm passionate about that make mainstream news
in a lot of ways that's why I don't use mainstream news that much anymore.
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Season 5: Episode 59 Spoilers
There are spoilers coming up, ya'll.
Another downer of an episode. I think I said this before but you understand why they made so many of the previous episodes so "broad" when you see how everything and everyone is collapsing in on itself/themselves.
Snoop's death was pretty easily foreseen and lacked the sense of shock and loss when compared to Omar's.
The newspaper stuff continues to fascinate me. Clark Johnson is really doing some fantastic acting in this.
I think a few of the characters' fates are pretty clear (Dukie's in particular) but I have a feeling the episode will be pretty gut-wrenching.
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I'm not sure how anyone could think that this season isn't a disappointment (admittedly, it's still a very good show, but the fake serial killer/newsroom angle isn't so hot).
Sorry, but I just don't agree. I think the newsroom story is great, and the fake serial killer angle is no more far-fetched than any number of fictional contrivances, including ones that have happened in the Wire in past seasons. I like the focus on the crazy, horrible unintended consequences of the lies.
I don't have a problem with it being contrived (the Hamsterdam scenario is just as unrealistic). My problem is that the angle seems to against what I, and a lot of other fans of the show, think is something McNulty would do. You're taking arguably the main character in the show and making him call reporters, put on a wacky accent, use fake teeth to bite "victims." This doesn't seem like something, knowing all we do about him, that McNulty would do.
In other words, it's not the contrivance or the invention of the plot line, it's the fact that it feels so false.
I don't have a problem with the Newsroom at all, except that it's too tied in to the serial killer story. The acting is, as usual, top notch. Again, it's a great show.
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you know what I'm going to love is that the finale won't be on demand till after it airs. So you will all have to wait.
Which by the way will be 90 minutes.
Perdictions:
I think its pretty obvious now who blows the whistle on the serial killer case.
Also the reporter will finally gets what is coming to him, with some huge fallout namely the editors who have been codling him.
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Episode 59 talk
As last night's Best Actress winner might say, Price, Lehane and Pelecanos have rocked my life w/ their writing these past 3 weeks. After only one late night viewing, 59 might be the best episode of the series, with only Stringer's death really rivaling it. Despite kwygibo's well-reasoned argument, I stand by my earlier criticisms (some plot elements just were not introduced as deftly as they needed to be for me), but the final stretch has been so great I barely remember what they were.
And can everyone (including me) who quibbled about McNulty and Lester's actions at least acknowledge how true to character Kima's were?
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I cried (that never happens).
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WARNING! Cheap spoiler joke below.
I cried (that never happens).
For Snoop?
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Yeah, I had my problems with some stuff early in the season, but this home stretch is nothing short of magnificent. That final shot of Dukie watching the guy tie himself off was almost too grim for words.
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SPOILERS:
What was the significance of what Clay Davis told Lester in Episode 9? Has Rhonda Pearlman been leaking information to Levy? The leak inside the DA's office came up earlier with Prop Joe. She is the only attorney we really know, and in an earlier season, I remember when she refused to help McNulty do something against Levy.
EDIT:
After re-watching the scene and consulting wikipedia, it seems like the rat might be Gary DiPasquale.
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It's absolutely not Rhonda. She was genuinely surprised about the leak, and discussed it with Bond. Not to mention that it would completely sell out her character.
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(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2349/1736510963_76b2e876c2.jpg?v=0)
My one day on the set was Snoop's last day. I took this photo of her as she left for the very last time, seconds after yelling a final good-bye to everyone.
She didn't get into a car or the shuttle van that carried people from the parking lot to the set. We were in her neighborhood, I'm guessing, because she just kind of strolled off alone into the sunset.
In the photo she's laughing at me, probably because I took the photo while dressed as a police officer. Given her journey, to see someone in a BPD uniform taking a fan-photo of her, I can see why she'd find that hilarious. It must've been a very surreal and satisfying moment for her; it sure was for me.
Forgive the self-indulgence, but I've been sitting on that anecdote for a few months and thought it was worth sharing with youse guys.
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Has Chris L.'s car appeared yet? Did I miss it?
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Has Chris L.'s car appeared yet? Did I miss it?
It'll be in the finale... I think. Sadly, I doubt my WFMU bumper sticker made the cut.
I didn't snap any exciting pics, but the extra who was sitting behind me sent me this cellphone pic:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2053/2293543979_67ce0b0c49.jpg?v=0)
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What is Herc's relationship with Levy? I thought he was a client and then in the last episode he's sitting in on Snoop's counseling session. Did I miss something?
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What is Herc's relationship with Levy? I thought he was a client and then in the last episode he's sitting in on Snoop's counseling session. Did I miss something?
He's working for Levy as a legal investigator.
I'm still wondering whether Herc realized that Levy would likely use that info about the illegal wire investigation to have the case thrown out.
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B_Buster, do you watch the show while you do the dishes?
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B_Buster, do you watch the show while you do the dishes?
ZING!!!!
I watched "The Departed" with a hyperactive med student who was on her laptop throughout the movie. She must have asked 500 questions. Therefore, I kind of still don't understand the plot.
LEO: "Hi, Uncle Jimmy."
MED STUDENT: "Who's THAT guy?"
buffcoat (mumbling and grinding teeth to cut down on the tension): "He just SAID it was his UNCLE. It HELPS if you pay ATTENTION to the MOVIE."
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B_Buster, do you watch the show while you do the dishes?
Are you kidding? I think I just may have a thing against "Dickensian" cop shows. Frankly, I'd much rather watch The First 48. At least they have the courtesy to throw up captions for the marble mouths.
Also, I admit to finding long stretches of The Wire boring. It also might help if characters didn't pop in for 10 seconds and then disappear for hours. Anyone else looking forward to the return of Pryzbylewski in the finale (he's been gone so long from the show he grew a beard!)? Me neither.
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B_Buster, do you watch the show while you do the dishes?
Are you kidding?
Yeah.
Really, though, I admire your commitment to your wrongheaded, unfun anti-The Wire stance. You're in the final stretch now!
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No doubt. I'm thinking of having a Wire finale party! I'm trying to work out a betting pool thing. I've already predicted a Dickensian end for Bubbles, but I think I'm going to have to include Dukie now in the race for that truly Dickensian tragic ending. Who else should I include in my pool?
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Dorvid, that is an amazing story (seriously) That must've been eating you up for the last couple months
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Dorvid, that is an amazing story (seriously) That must've been eating you up for the last couple months
Thanks, Brian.
Given how long I've had to think about it, I should have been able to write about it more eloquently, but it is a true story, so help me Gus.
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58 Spolier
[youtube]kHXpgbQrsEo[/youtube]
The kids who play Kenard and Bug do a radio interview.
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I love the kids on the show. episode 11 of the season 4 DVD has a fun commentary by the actors who play dukie, randy, michael, the other kid who went to live with Bunny (don't remember his name) and proposition joe. Apparently Robert F. Chew served as the kids' acting coach/mentor on the show.
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the other kid who went to live with Bunny (don't remember his name)
His name's Namond. I don't know if you're watching Season 5, but he and Bunny make an appearance in Ep 59. Bunny's sporting some nice facial hair.
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Am I the only one disappointed in Snoop's resignation at her fate? I would have thought that she would have gone down fighting not checking herself in the mirror. In other words, I thought the scene was stagey. Like something out of a bad western or samurai movie.
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Am I the only one disappointed in Snoop's resignation at her fate? I would have thought that she would have gone down fighting not checking herself in the mirror. In other words, I thought the scene was stagey. Like something out of a bad western or samurai movie.
Just you.
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Am I the only one disappointed in Snoop's resignation at her fate? I would have thought that she would have gone down fighting not checking herself in the mirror. In other words, I thought the scene was stagey. Like something out of a bad western or samurai movie.
I personally was disappointed with the choice of tires on her SUV. All that money she's making and she can't even fit a set of Pirellis on there? For shame!
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Am I the only one disappointed in Snoop's resignation at her fate? I would have thought that she would have gone down fighting not checking herself in the mirror. In other words, I thought the scene was stagey. Like something out of a bad western or samurai movie.
You are.
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I have avoided this sub-forum almost completely until today - just binged on the first nine episodes of season 5. Still digesting it.
Dorvid, that's a lovely on-set story - well told.
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Am I the only one disappointed in Snoop's resignation at her fate? I would have thought that she would have gone down fighting not checking herself in the mirror. In other words, I thought the scene was stagey. Like something out of a bad western or samurai movie.
Google "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."
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Am I the only one disappointed in Snoop's resignation at her fate? I would have thought that she would have gone down fighting not checking herself in the mirror. In other words, I thought the scene was stagey. Like something out of a bad western or samurai movie.
Google "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."
I love it!
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Am I the only one disappointed in Snoop's resignation at her fate? I would have thought that she would have gone down fighting not checking herself in the mirror. In other words, I thought the scene was stagey. Like something out of a bad western or samurai movie.
Google "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."
It's from Unforgiven, isn't it? I thought of that as soon as I saw the quote, which was also the epigram for the episode. It makes sense as George Pelecanos, who wrote this episode, is a huge western fan.
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the other kid who went to live with Bunny (don't remember his name)
His name's Namond. I don't know if you're watching Season 5, but he and Bunny make an appearance in Ep 59. Bunny's sporting some nice facial hair.
I like him better with that.
What are the chances Snupe has a career in acting after this?
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Am I the only one disappointed in Snoop's resignation at her fate? I would have thought that she would have gone down fighting not checking herself in the mirror. In other words, I thought the scene was stagey. Like something out of a bad western or samurai movie.
Google "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."
Good catch, yesno. Now I'm kind of surprised Michael didn't say, "Put 'em up! I've got the goods on ya!"
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What is Herc's relationship with Levy? I thought he was a client and then in the last episode he's sitting in on Snoop's counseling session. Did I miss something?
He's working for Levy as a legal investigator.
I'm still wondering whether Herc realized that Levy would likely use that info about the illegal wire investigation to have the case thrown out.
Was that ever explicitly said (and I missed it)? I've enjoyed season 5 alot, but Herc's job with Levy seemed weird to me. Do legal investigators sit in on meetings with important (and criminal) clients? Marlo not making a deal out of it even though he knew that Herc was an ex-cop who worked surveillance on him seems weird.
Prop Joe brought him there and Marlo trusted Prop Joe, so that could explain it, but really does anyone know enough about law to tell if that was a strange detail or if I was over-analyzing it.
Honestly I am surprised that the media stuff gets flack when the hearing the words 'serial killer' out of the mouths of these characters has been the only jarring aspect of the season.
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Are you suggesting, ericluxury, that The Wire may be playing fast and loose with reality? How dare you!
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Another Ep. 9-relevant quote that some viewers pointed out:
"They know my name, but my name is not my name." - Vondas, season 2
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You're pushing it, B_Buster. Save your energy for trashing the finale.
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Are you suggesting, ericluxury, that The Wire may be playing fast and loose with reality? How dare you!
What are you talking about? Remember back in season 2 when Herc is digging in that ditch - if you look real close in the background, LEVY DROVE BY IN A TRUCK AND GAVE HERC A LOOK. Clearly foreshadowing their inevitable alliance!
DUDE DAVID SIMON THOUGHT OF -EVERYTHING-
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SPOILERS for 3.11 and 5.8
"Those who want to know why Omar had to die, why Stringer had to die," [Simon] said, "Strap on a helmet, get in the game and read Antigone. Read Medea. It had to happen."
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/03/the-wire-david.html
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Someone is mixing his (Best Show) metaphors!
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I like to think that - had we gotten a regular season of 12 or 13 episodes instead of 10 - there's a chance we would have had an entire episode of Marlo and Chris Partlow partying in Atlantic City before this past episode. Maybe they filmed that anyway, for the DVDs.
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True, Wes, but how many more scenes of Carcetti making hard decisions over the allocation of funds in the city budget can a human being stand? I say, enough.
Also, can we all agree, at least, that Simon is a pompous ass?
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Also, can we all agree, at least, that Simon is a pompous ass?
No.
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Also, can we all agree, at least, that Simon is a pompous ass?
No.
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Also, can we all agree, at least, that Simon is a pompous ass?
No.
No
At least The Wire makes sense unlike that train wreck John From Cincinnati
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Tough crowd.
Also, for the record, I never endorsed John from Cincinnati.
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Also, for the record, I [...] endorsed John from Cincinnati.
Well well well!
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Up through season 4, I would not have agreed with Mike about David Simon being so pompous... but season 5 has made me change my tune. All this "parallel lying in the police force AND the newspapers about a fake serial killer" bullshit is stealing all the heart from the show. In my HUMBLEST of opinions.
This finale had better be GOOOD.
Overall though, I think the Wire is definitely worth watching... good show. Gets a little over-dramatic at times, but what long-running series doesn't?
I miss Deadwood.
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I miss Deadwood.
The f*&# c&%$ing h#*$ you do.
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Also, can we all agree, at least, that B_Buster is a pompous ass?
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Also, can we all agree, at least, that Simon is a pompous ass?
I'm as big a Wire geek as you're likely to find and I have no problem admitting Simon's pretty pompous. Based on interviews, I don't think you'd have much problem getting Simon himself to admit that he's pompous. None of which means I think The Wire is pompous, because I don't.
I can see why so many people are criticizing this season (I certainly don't think the show is above criticism), but it seems pretty indisputable to me that the last 3 episodes have been magnificent. I have very high hopes for the finale.
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Really good Q&A with David Simon where he discusses the end of the show:
http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2008/03/wire-david-simon-q.html
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Wow, youse guys have been so discreet with your posts on this board - thanks!
It's like you knew those of us who were behind were gonna sneak peeks at this thread. I was a couple of seasons behind at first; like TL I watched 4 seasons in about 2 months, but this season I've been mere episodes behind. Bruce, don't know how you contained yourself.
I'm getting episode 7-10 at some point today. My Wire buddy took the day off work so we could watch all 4 shows together. I'll be sad when it's all over but I'll have lots of stuff to read on Slate, The Atlantic and Salon, and I may even pick up some of the books the show is based on.
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I agree with what the Sun had to say about this season. It felt hollow.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/bal-al.wire09mar09,0,7475818.story
Although... the parts with Michael at the end of the finale were perfect (The new Omar?) and I also liked "This sentimental muthafucka just cost us money" right after Cheese got his head blown off.
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I agree with what the Sun had to say about this season. It felt hollow.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/bal-al.wire09mar09,0,7475818.story
Although... the parts with Michael at the end of the finale were perfect (The new Omar?) and I also liked "This sentimental muthafucka just cost us money" right after Cheese got his head blown off.
Fuck a Sun.
Slim Charles wasting Method Man was a rare symbolic victory for go-go.
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I hated the finale first time through, liked it the second time. I think David Chase is wrong (in new AV Club interview (http://www.avclub.com/content/interview/david_simon), among other sources) when he said it worked just fine in 10, even if he would have only just added stories for tertiary characters. It needed room to breathe.
Honestly, the only part that really felt awkwardly done was the newsroom storyline. Which illustrates a very simple lesson: Don't s*** where you eat. It's funny, because Simon has spoken honestly about the egos and "onanism" of journalists for a long time, but failed to realize that he was in the most danger of falling victim to it. I don't think it was as bad as some people do, but I do think that if it had been done better and with more attention paid to telling a story instead of just presenting arguments, the season would have been far, far better.
As far as final episodes go, it was about the best we could have hoped for. After four years of bleak despair and tragedy, he ends it with banality, leaving almost all paths open-ended and in the most obvious direction. It's not much of an ending, but it's much closer to reality than the alternatives.
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I agree with what the Sun had to say about this season. It felt hollow.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/bal-al.wire09mar09,0,7475818.story
Although... the parts with Michael at the end of the finale were perfect (The new Omar?) and I also liked "This sentimental muthafucka just cost us money" right after Cheese got his head blown off.
Fuck a Sun.
Slim Charles wasting Method Man was a rare symbolic victory for go-go.
Just watched it! And I agree - that scene was kinda perfect (even if it was self-aware, arch, and thus kinda funny).
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I agree with what the Sun had to say about this season. It felt hollow.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/bal-al.wire09mar09,0,7475818.story
Although... the parts with Michael at the end of the finale were perfect (The new Omar?) and I also liked "This sentimental muthafucka just cost us money" right after Cheese got his head blown off.
Fuck a Sun.
Slim Charles wasting Method Man was a rare symbolic victory for go-go.
Just watched it! And I agree - that scene was kinda perfect (even if it was self-aware, arch, and thus kinda funny).
I just thought of a way to get Slim & Co. the 900k they need to complete the Marlo deal: MARATHON!!!!
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I just thought of a way to get Slim & Co. the 900k they need to complete the Marlo deal: MARATHON!!!!
I'll start learning some songs...
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I just thought of a way to get Slim & Co. the 900k they need to complete the Marlo deal: MARATHON!!!!
I'll start learning some songs...
Well you know Omar and the crew dig the old school 70's soul TL. Better brush up on some Curtis Mayfield and Bobby Womack
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Chris Partlow may be locked up but I'd still learn some Young Leek just for your own sake.
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You don't think Lungfish or Candy Machine will cut it?
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You don't think Lungfish or Candy Machine will cut it?
Throw in some Tsunami and you might be all set
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You don't think Lungfish or Candy Machine will cut it?
Throw in some Tsunami and you might be all set
DC, unfortunately...
(Northern Virginia, actually, even more unfortunately)
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You don't think Lungfish or Candy Machine will cut it?
Throw in some Tsunami and you might be all set
DC, unfortunately...
(Northern Virginia, actually, even more unfortunately)
To be honest I lumped all those bands in the mid atlantic in my mind.
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Baltimore City Paper interview (http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=15437)
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I finally started watching season 5. So far, I hate Steve Earles's version of the opening song and am disgusted with McNulty's behavior. I also found his rigging of the murder at the end of episode 2 (all I've seen so far) completely implausible and annoying. Oh, and I despise that Scott fellow in the newsroom.
Otherwise, I enjoyed it and look forward to watching the rest of the season over the coming week or so.
a few minutes later: One more kvetch: the higher-ups on the paper reminded me of the wicked mayors in countless horror movie/thrillers (Jaws, etc.) who choose to ignore facts out of greed. I always hate such one-note, exaggerated villains.
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Sure, those are plot holes and implausibilities and annoyances, but they are the greatest plot holes and implausibilities and annoyances in the history of television, by God!
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I hate Steve Earles's version of the opening song
Thank you Sarah. I've brought that same point up a couple of times already on this board and noone seemed to agree. Now I know it's not just me. I hate that song with passion. How much more annoying can a man's singing voice get?
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I hate Steve Earles's version of the opening song
Thank you Sarah. I've brought that same point up a couple of times already on this board and noone seemed to agree. Now I know it's not just me. I hate that song with passion. How much more annoying can a man's singing voice get?
At least two people already trashed that tepid version here, including me. Or maybe that was in the chat.
Sarah, you'll probably be apoplectic after episode 3 but it does get better.
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Well, I'm done. And sure I had problems; sure there are things to bitch about. But it was great even so, and not only do I want to watch the entire season over again right away, but I wish I had the entire series on DVD so I could start from season 1 and work my way through it TL style. There's so much I don't remember; there are so many nuances I would appreciate more the second time around. But I'm too cheap to buy it, so I guess I'll just have to suffer.
Embarrassing confession: I am so incurious that only just now did I bother to check whether Simon had anything to do with The Corner, a series that much impressed me when I watched it back in 2000 (not least because at that time a very close friend of mine became irrevocably addicted to Oxycontin, and I was amazed by the parallels between the addict's life in Baltimore as portrayed in the series and my friend's existence as one here in ever-so-isolated Lubec. I annoyed a number of people that year by saying that Lubec was just like Baltimore, the only difference--and advantage--being that it was less crowded and people could make money by picking wrinkles instead of scrounging for scrap [and not so scrap] metal). Of course he did. And of course he had something to do with Homicide, another fact of which I was unaware until recently. Oh well. I loved all three without realizing they were related. At least I'm consistent.
Another embarrassing confession: I was inordinately pleased to see Stephen Schnetzer in a small but meaty role as the guy Gus asks to check out Templeton's stories. I used to watch Another World with my mummy, and seeing an alumnus on The Wire gave me a chuckle.
Stray thoughts:
Unlike Dorvid, I thought the profiling scene was too much. The guy desperately seeking recognition for his artistic efforts, the parallels between the profile and McNulty's own personality. It came off as caricature.
Poor sweet doomed Dukie. I was tricked for a moment into thinking his hooking up with the junk man was a good thing, but too soon I was shown to be wrong. What's really sad is that, with more backbone, he might have made escaped his fate; however, more likely he would just have done a good job with his corner. ( I loved Poot's take on it: you put in your time on the corner and then you get out.)
I didn't see you, Dorvid, or your car, Chris L. Oh well. Not paying proper attention, I guess.
Got to say, Mike, I think you went into this wanting to hate it. Perhaps, though, this kind of thing simply isn't your cup of tea, in which case I don't see why you bothered watching it at all.
In the end, the faked serial killer gimmick didn't bother me because it was far-fetched but because it seemed hackneyed somehow. Hamsterdam was much more original and interesting.
Just watched the interview with the actors who played Kenard and Bug. Boy, that Kenard is a microphone hog! Poor Bug barely go a word in.
I don't believe for one second that McNulty would settle down and live happily every after with Beadie. Lester might do just fine, however.
Murders that stuck with me:
Marlo was surprisingly kindly to Proposition Joe. I get it--it was just business, after all--but he didn't have to take the time to be gentle. That actor does have the most peaceful-looking face, I must say. And wasn't he pleased to be back on the street again at the end?
Just before Omar was killed, I said to myself, why doesn't some young up-and-comer take advantage of this opportunity and off him? It was getting pretty silly that this clearly suffering guy was able to limp around in broad daylight killing and stealing with impunity. I even began to suspect that he was attempting to commit suicide by gangsta (kin to suicide by cop), which struck me as overly sentimental/melodramatic.
Unlike so many of you, I didn't recognize the kid who shot him, but it seemed fitting that a child was responsible. As to his motive, I imagine to a budding young sociopath a mythic figure in a weakened state would be an irresistible temptation. It seemed quite natural to me: the upcoming killer eliminating the most accomplished one of all. Of course, Michael ends up being Omar's true successor, but Kenard's time will come.
Snoop died like the soldier she was. I always had a hard time understanding her speech, but I loved the character. And your photo of her was just lovely, Dorvid.
Cheese's murder that the end made me burst out laughing. And this
I just thought of a way to get Slim & Co. the 900k they need to complete the Marlo deal: MARATHON!!!!
made me laugh, too.
Oh well. It's over. I hope someday I'll get to watch all five seasons back to back.