FOT Forum
FOT Community => Links => Topic started by: TremblingEagle on May 15, 2008, 12:51:51 AM
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-q4MDQ0cDI[/youtube]
with enough people like this we may squeeze John McCain into office
yay!
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I just don't agree with living anymore.
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UGH.
I also watch the BBC News and saw the same redneck clip Ken mentioned this morning. "We're not racist. We just don't like black people." I would ask that person to look up "racism" in the dictionary, but he probably can't read.
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I sat there telling myself, "Don't click that link. It's just going to piss you off. Don't click the link."
I clicked the link.
It just pissed me off.
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I just don't agree with living anymore.
Yet we live in a country that produces people like this too
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnLWSC5p1XE[/youtube]
that makes me feel better
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I don't see what the big deal is.
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=93ti-26Av7o[/youtube]
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its kind of pointless to get upset by that kind of silliness
in my opinion ALL people look like monkeys
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for the record, I do see what the big deal it.
apparently the owner of that bar had up on his marque: "I Wish OJ had Married Hillary"
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for the record, I do see what the big deal it.
apparently the owner of that bar had up on his marque: "I Wish OJ had Married Hillary"
eh
he's a "In Real Life" attention whore/troll
the internet has taught us all how best to deal with them
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Though that first video was a rotten way to start the day, I was amused by the way nem white folk squirmed when they attempted to explain why they wouldn't vote for Obama without mentioning his race.
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So depressing :(
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meh... it's probably about as depressing as a jaywalking segments on the tonight show... but instead of finding spaced out mutants in weirdo-wood they found some ignorant numbskulls and edited it to paint all wv clinton voters as racists. the fact of the matter is a little less than half of the democrat electorate is voting for hillary and a slightly greater part is voting for obama, and that choices based on race and gender has and will continue to hurt and help both of them to a certain extent.
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Ummmm no it's still pretty depressing.
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While the voters' statements are obviously the most odious aspect of the clip, the host irks me when he implies that every inarticulate doubt expressed among WV Dems about Obama's credentials is a euphamism for racism. The guy's only been a senator six years and doesn't exactly have a lot of high-profile accomplishments that people can easily point to, so saying "I don't really know him" doesn't automatically mean "I'm scared of the black guy."
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I just don't agree with living anymore.
Yet we live in a country that produces people like this too
that makes me feel better
I would rather have Dick Cheney or Hugo Chavez as President than Noam Chomsky. And that's saying a lot.
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I just don't agree with living anymore.
Yet we live in a country that produces people like this too
that makes me feel better
I would rather have Dick Cheney or Hugo Chavez as President than Noam Chomsky. And that's saying a lot.
???
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Ummmm no it's still pretty depressing.
of course it is depressing to hear an uninformed adult say obama is muslim etc... the naive part of me would just like think there's a little more depth to clinton's overwhelming win in west virginia than the utterances of racism and ignorance in this short video.
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. . . saying "I don't really know him" doesn't automatically mean "I'm scared of the black guy."
But when a lifelong Democrat cites it as a reason to vote for a Republican, it probably does.
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What do you expect? It's West by god Virginia after all and we all know how backwards those people are. Just ask Michael K from the Cynics.
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. . . saying "I don't really know him" doesn't automatically mean "I'm scared of the black guy."
But when a lifelong Democrat cites it as a reason to vote for a Republican, it probably does.
Absolutely. I apologize for stating the obvious, but the policy differences between Hillary Clinton and John McCain are (at least somewhat) greater than between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, so do the math, you know? What's really at stake with someone who'd vote for Clinton over McCain, but McCain over Obama?
Also, again - sorry, but I just have to vent about how horribly dejecting the willful ignorance of the "I think America should be run by an American... ('He is an American') ...He's a Muslim... ('But he's not a Muslim') ...Well, I don't agree with that," woman. You don't agree with facts? "We have a right to know," she says. Yeah - you do - he's not a Muslim. "I don't agree with that."
???
And beyond that, Muslim ≠ American?
:-\
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I'd never be able to have a conversation with someone like that. I'd like to think I could sit down and convince her otherwise, and engage her in a conversation that might make her think about her ignorance.
But I think I'd end up either imploding or shaking her til her brain rattles.
It's amazing.
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. . . saying "I don't really know him" doesn't automatically mean "I'm scared of the black guy."
But when a lifelong Democrat cites it as a reason to vote for a Republican, it probably does.
Fair enough, and as a cynic (no Michael K. pun intended) who grew up very close to West Virginia I believe that's true in most cases, just not every case. The only other caveat is that Obama's running against a guy who the media's portrayed for years - accurately or not - as a "straight talker" who appeals to (self-loathing) Democrats, so six months before the election there's probably a little more uncertainty for some people than if, say, Obama had run against Bush.
At the very least, I don't know how the "Obama's a Muslim" crowd reconcile that boneheaded belief with the fact that for 20 years he went to this church they keep hearing about. Evidently they just believe whatever forwarded email they receive and don't worry about sorting out the contradictions.
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The scariest part for me is that these guys are the democrats in town. What the fuck do the republicans say?
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The scariest part for me is that these guys are the democrats in town. What the fuck do the republicans say?
So far they have not mastered language. But the pictures they are drawing in the dirt with sticks are razor-sharp.
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West Virginia Democrats just never switched over to the Republican party when the rest of the country's rural Democrats did-- they're this weird pocket of throwback Dixiecrats. I wouldn't read too much into their opinions.
I think the host of the first clip should have been more insistent. "Since Barack Obama is American, and was born and raised in the United States of America, and since he has been a Christian his whole life and appears to be quite devout, what other reason do you have for not voting for him?"
Not that I think that Christian-ness or American-ness ought to be considerations in the first place, but I can see people falling for the various lie campaigns.
I don't even care about his policies anymore. I want Obama to win just to irritate these people.
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Yes, TL, yes and yes. That particular exchange was just gorgeous. I once made the mistake of discussing my opposition to the impending war with a woman in the bar (well, I made that mistake more than once, and with people of both sexes, but this particular exchange stands out). To every argument in favor that she raised, I offered a rebuttal based on fact, but, in the end, it didn't matter a jot. Even if she got my point when I made it, her brain instantly reverted to the mistaken positions she was used to holding. The exchange didn't end in fisticuffs, but it could have.
There's a great passage in Mark Helprin's A Soldier of the Great War in which the protagonist slowly and carefully lays out a series of arguments to show two other guys that they're wrong about something. They are persuaded at every point in his exposition but in the end simply repeat what they said at the outset. Sometimes, there's just no point. When I finally accepted that a few years ago--it took me a surprisingly long time--I moved one dangerous step closer to permanent residence in the slough of despond. Your news about the Republicans gives me hope, however, DfK.
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Almost heaven
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee183/gaughin/god_kn3.jpg)
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There's a great passage in Mark Helprin's A Soldier of the Great War in which the protagonist slowly and carefully lays out a series of arguments to show two other guys that they're wrong about something. They are persuaded at every point in his exposition but in the end simply repeat what they said at the outset. Sometimes, there's just no point. When I finally accepted that a few years ago--it took me a surprisingly long time--I moved one dangerous step closer to permanent residence in the slough of despond. Your news about the Republicans gives me hope, however, DfK.
Mark Helprin shows that not all Republicans are dummies, by the way. (He's a pretty prominent one.) (Also I work with and know a lot of very thoughtful Republicans. The more cynical among them more or less admit to deliberately taking advantage of the rural electorate as a necessary means of gaining power.
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I would not consider Mark Helprin to be a West Virginia Republican.
I met some Republicans who weren't that unreasonable, but they turned out really chewy, and not in a good way.
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So Mark Helprin's a Republican. Another thing I didn't know. I'm remarkably incurious in that way. It serves me well.
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West Virginia Democrats just never switched over to the Republican party when the rest of the country's rural Democrats did-- they're this weird pocket of throwback Dixiecrats. I wouldn't read too much into their opinions.
I'm a native West Virginian. This statement is true for the most part. West Virginia democrats are mainly the pro-union/labor (United Mine Workers) type. Socially, they have more in common with the Republican party. As for racism and ignorance, sadly, it's prevalent throughout the state. Bush carried the state twice because Gore and Kerry were seen as too liberal (i.e. anti-coal). McCain will carry the state in November for similar reasons. Racism will play a large part.
This thread depresses me to no end. I have a love/hate relationship with my home. The video is the perfect example of everything I hate about the state. Sigh.
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So Mark Helprin's a Republican. Another thing I didn't know. I'm remarkably incurious in that way. It serves me well.
I might take back the dummy thing. I remember last summer that he wrote an op-ed calling for *perpetual* intellectual property rights. He took the intellectual "property" metaphor a bit too seriously, and apparently didn't wonder whether we'd have to be paying Milton's descendants for Paradise Lost.
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This thread depresses me to no end. I have a love/hate relationship with my home. The video is the perfect example of everything I hate about the state. Sigh.
It does seem that W.Va Democrats are neither fish nor fowl. They're not Southern enough to have been carried over to the Republican side in the 60s/70s, but not Northern enough to really be part of the rust belt democrats.
But overall my take on the state is that it is the way it is politically because it has no big cities. Lots of rural America is pretty racist. I can't say I know too much about every state-- rural Minnesotans by all accounts are pretty open-minded-- but I would bet you'd find similar views in upstate New York, downstate Illinois, etc. (It's sort of like how people make a big deal about the red state/blue state thing, but meanwhile in red states, cities still vote blue, and in blue states, rural counties still vote red. What throws a state from one column to another is often just how urban the state is.)
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The scariest part for me is that these guys are the democrats in town. What the fuck do the republicans say?
Actually, the woman sitting next to the "Muslim/smear-tactic" genius was identified as Republican. She kind of looked at her friend like she was nuts and interjected a few "buts" at her crazy talk and seemed to understand her friend was full of shit.
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Just about every justification these "people" gave sounded like coded racism to me. When someone mentioned Obama's lack of experience, I just extrapolated that they meant "his lack of experience [at being white]."
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Just about every justification these "people" gave sounded like coded racism to me. When someone mentioned Obama's lack of experience, I just extrapolated that they meant "his lack of experience [at being white]."
and his mom is white so I assume he has SOME insight into whiteness
imagine if he was double black
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Just about every justification these "people" gave sounded like coded racism to me. When someone mentioned Obama's lack of experience, I just extrapolated that they meant "his lack of experience [at being white]."
and his mom is white so I assume he has SOME insight into whiteness
I just don't agree with that.
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. . . in blue states, rural counties still vote red.
Not my rural county, bless its little Downeastern heart.
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The Daily Show - "I've had enough of HOO-saines!"
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=168561 (http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=168561)
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Just about every justification these "people" gave sounded like coded racism to me. When someone mentioned Obama's lack of experience, I just extrapolated that they meant "his lack of experience [at being white]."
and his mom is white so I assume he has SOME insight into whiteness
I just don't agree with that.
what having a white mother, grand parents etc doesn't give insight into the white experience?
I'm not white myself I'm only guessing
what say you?
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Just about every justification these "people" gave sounded like coded racism to me. When someone mentioned Obama's lack of experience, I just extrapolated that they meant "his lack of experience [at being white]."
and his mom is white so I assume he has SOME insight into whiteness
I just don't agree with that.
what having a white mother, grand parents etc doesn't give insight into the white experience?
I'm not white myself I'm only guessing
what say you?
I got a mass e-mail saying he was raised by two gay Muslim fathers in Indonesia, so I don't know what you're talking about.
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I got a mass e-mail saying he was raised by two gay Muslim fathers in Indonesia, so I don't know what you're talking about.
ah
now I understand ur concern
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The Daily Show - "I've had enough of HOO-saines!"
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=168561 (http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=168561)
Ha! I was just coming to post this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgySDqa8zgQ
I've had enough of that HUUU-SAAAYN.
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Kudos to Wanda for telling the truth, at least.
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I myself am an Obama-style mulatto, so that makes this thread an exercise in self flagellation with every click. Keep em coming! I can't get enough.
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Just about every justification these "people" gave sounded like coded racism to me. When someone mentioned Obama's lack of experience, I just extrapolated that they meant "his lack of experience [at being white]."
I got the same impression, Forrest. While that piece may have been designed to give that impression, nevertheless it's striking just how many clues there were that that's what is going on in these people's minds. How many other Democrats with a somewhat favorable view of Obama did they interview but not show in that clip? From the looks of the West Virginia primary statistics, probably not very many.
It's striking to me just how similar Obama's and Clinton's policy positions have been in the campaign, and how significantly different they are from those of McCain. If those positions were really the basis for the voting decisions of these folks, they wouldn't be throwing up this litany of sad excuses for their support for Clinton, e.g., I don't feel like I know Obama, he's not being forthright (too big a word for that crowd), he doesn't share my values, he doesn't hold American values, he's not patriotic, etc. All have been attempts, so far apparently remarkably successful, at pinning various objectionable labels on Obama for minds that can't or don't want to listen to policy positions -- or who are looking for an opportunity not to admit to their own racism. And we have the Clinton campaign to thank in large part for stoking those coals and providing just those excuses.
If these people were my neighbors (in a sense, they are), I'd conclude that we're in for four to eight more years of conservative Republican rule. I'm just cynical enough to believe that this country is still racist enough to tip the scales in McCain's favor in the fall, but I still hope that I am all wrong. If Obama loses, I will probably draw that conclusion, since there are just so many overwhelming factors favoring the Democrats this year, incl. the economy, gas prices, the war and McCain's support for it, Bush's incompetence, poorly executed foreign policy, on and on. What's worse, if Obama loses, he'll be blamed for screwing it all up and wresting defeat from the jaws of victory, however good a candidate and a campaigner he may be.
And another thing, I'm always trying to be open-minded about people who are labeled as hicks when I suspect it's an unfair, classist label. (After all, I'm a middle class white guy from an unglamorous fly-over state, so I have a chip on my shoulder too.) But then the damn dummies just do everything in their power to confirm that they really are dumbass hicks. What can you do?
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WV Primary result map on an awesome Google Map function (http://maps.google.com/maps/mpl?moduleurl=http:%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmapfiles%2Fmapplets%2Felections%2F2008%2Fprimary%2Fprimaries.xml&ie=UTF8&ll=38.91993,-80.181766&spn=4.102747,6.954346&z=7)
That link doesn't work perfectly.
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the idea that there's racism in West Virginia isn't exactly a lid-blower. I feel that if Obama wins the nomination, it will be a historic event, whether or not he wins. I think he'd have a pretty tough time beating McCain, just based on race and his perceived Other-ness. Not only do a lot of white people not like black people, a lot of latino voters feel the same. Plus at the eleventh hour you'd probably get a ton of "Is a Black Man Electable" anxiety coming from the media which will basically seal his fate with self-fulfilling prophecies.
That Obama's a muslim lady sure is a moron, though.
Out of sheer willfull ignorance, I think it's kinda awesome when that one lady in the restaurant video tells the interviewer she's had enough of him saying Obama's name.