FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: KickTheBobo on June 30, 2008, 01:17:35 AM
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Ok, this has been bugging me ever since a pal of mine went to see Tortoise around ten years ago, and told me that the opening act was a guy alone on stage with just a laptop.
So, I have always assumed that these folks are at least doing a bit of on-the-fly mixing and manipulation of samples and whatnot. Hey, that's cool: improvising with a 21st century 'instrument' and all. that apparently is not the case. i was watching this documentary on copyright which featured flavor-of-the-week Girl Talk, where he talks about his process and whatnot. Well, apparently a 'live' show of his consists of him just muting and un-muting the different tracks of the song. I mean come on! why aren't you just sitting up there with a boombox with your cd in it and "playing" the play and stop buttons?
I tells ya: I made the mistake once of going to see a couple of friends of mines band(?)/ ensemble(?) a few years ago and it was seriously just 3 dudes sitting at a table all staring into their macbooks (of course) and fiddling around. They even had a soundman! For all I know, they could have just been searching for plane tickets or reading the ny times.
Don't get me wrong: making music on the computer is all fine and dandy (hell, I do it), but in order for something to be a 'performance', there's got to be an element of action involved. It just seems a bit sad to think that today's version a Townsend windmill is ctrl-c > ctrl-v.
any thoughts? anyone been really blown away at a laptop show?
(http://www.kickthebobo.com/girl_talk.jpg)
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I've really only seen two different laptop performances and I had very different experiences with each. The first was Four Tet at an outdoor festival, pretty much the worst possible place for a laptop performance because you can't even see what he's doing. The second was Tim Hecker in a small club and it was a much better show because I could actually see what he was doing. Either way, I'd much rather see a more traditional band setup if I'm going to pay money for something I could just as easily listen to at home.
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I don't have a problem with it if they do something else interesting. A friend of mine is pretty serious about his laptop music, but he does performances with his wife, who makes animations that she edits in real time as well, and you can see that stuff because it's projected. It's not really my cup of tea, but at least you get a visual and audio phenomena. It can't really even be compared to a live band, and I don't think they should be held to the same standard or even really featured at the same venues. In an ideal world, there'd be appropriate separate venues for that sort of thing, but I feel like the majority of laptop musicians have the same economic draw as poets for a bar/club so it's not likely to happen any time soon.
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Different strokes, I say.
I am in an experimental band. We played a few shows that consisted of me and my friend talking over our music as it played on a boombox. I enjoyed it.
Most laptop musicians fulfill your definition of performance (action), as they tend to move around on stage or sing or do something else. But even if there is no action, I think there could still be performance. E.g. 4'33'':
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HypmW4Yd7SY
To me, performance is more about the presentation of some behavior or idea than about a particular action.
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anyone been really blown away at a laptop show?
nope.
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p.s. There is a brand new "rough" track as of today on the PURRICANE MUSIC PAGE called "Seclusion Stacian". No laptops were used in the making of this track; just a keyboard, some pedals, and a shaker.
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My next play consists of three actors at laptops searching for plane tickets and reading the NY Times. I'm hoping to get it in under three hours.
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I will go see that play. I'll bring one bag of roses and one bag of tomatoes. Then I'll just leave them at the foot of the stage so that they can sell them on ebay
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any thoughts? anyone been really blown away at a laptop show?
Yes. The aforementioned Four Tet, at a club. Alone on stage with his laptop. He tweaked the shit out of his music, at times it essentially felt like the mouse was his guitar. He really worked it, and it was great.
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I first witnessed it amongst noise/experimental acts. Seemed fairly permissible given the "anything goes" nature of those sorts of showcases, along with the fact you usually had 6 or so acts doing 15-20 minute sets.
As a "performance", it certainly lacks, and probably has little place on a big stage without the same tricks techno acts used (expensive lights, visuals, etc.) to give people something to see.
Probably been blown away a time or two, mostly due to the music itself, not the performance.
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I saw aphex twin live, and while I'm pretty sure he wasn't doing that much to his music, there was a pretty great stage show with dancing bears, a fire eater, and a naked-ish girl.
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Miami Laptop Battle 2008 is coming up soon.
This guy WON the 2007 Battle:
(http://www.cafeklatsch.org/images/patrick%20perrin/ottovonschirach.jpg)
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I saw aphex twin live, and while I'm pretty sure he wasn't doing that much to his music, there was a pretty great stage show with dancing bears, a fire eater, and a naked-ish girl.
When I saw him, he had his stuff set up on the floor of the stage and he laid down on his stomach. The stage was high enough that the effect was that from the dancefloor the stage appeared to be completely empty of anything at all.
Struck me as probably the most postmodern performance I'd seen, and in keeping with the sort of identity dilemmas he'd been toying with thematically.
Later as the show progressed there were dancing bears, etc.
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Plus, put on some clothes and shoes, get a haircut and a shower, and shave before you do your dumb little laptop show. No one wants to see your hairy, regular-dude body.
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Annie Clark of St. Vincent commented on this in the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/magazine/18bands-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&sq=owen%20pallett&st=nyt&scp=1) a few weeks ago, in an article about solo performers:
When I mentioned the ever-more-frequent use of laptop-based samples onstage, however, Clark narrowed her eyes. “That’s tricky,” she said. “I did a show once, and the guy who was on before me played a D.J. set using his laptop. To the crowd, it had the appearance that he was deeply engaged in thought — you know, really working those buttons — but I took a peek from backstage, and I saw that he was actually playing solitaire.” She laughed. “So you definitely have to be careful.”
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This guy one the 2007 Battle:
one=won
come on, laurie.
at any rate, ive seen shows that involve laptops amongst traditional instruments. it was good. i suppose i just have a hard time being blown away by laptop music as a show. at that point, i might as well grab a drink and go hang somewhere away from the speakers, making friends.
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This guy one the 2007 Battle:
one=won
come on, laurie.
I was distracted by Otto von Schirach's face.
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This guy one the 2007 Battle:
one=won
come on, laurie.
I was distracted by Otto von Schirach's face.
...was it the crazy eyes or that ridiculous smudge of a moustache?
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This guy one the 2007 Battle:
one=won
come on, laurie.
I was distracted by Otto von Schirach's face.
...was it the crazy eyes or that ridiculous smudge of a moustache?
The nose, actually.
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Annie Clark of St. Vincent commented on this in the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/magazine/18bands-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&sq=owen%20pallett&st=nyt&scp=1) a few weeks ago, in an article about solo performers:
When I mentioned the ever-more-frequent use of laptop-based samples onstage, however, Clark narrowed her eyes. “That’s tricky,” she said. “I did a show once, and the guy who was on before me played a D.J. set using his laptop. To the crowd, it had the appearance that he was deeply engaged in thought — you know, really working those buttons — but I took a peek from backstage, and I saw that he was actually playing solitaire.” She laughed. “So you definitely have to be careful.”
hahaha, Annie's a star.
For tape music (electroacoustic, etc.), it's pretty much unavoidable, but I certainly wouldn't be entertained by a laptop entertainer.
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I saw aphex twin live, and while I'm pretty sure he wasn't doing that much to his music, there was a pretty great stage show with dancing bears, a fire eater, and a naked-ish girl.
I think I went to a show on this same tour (unless the performances are always similar from year to year), I had the opposite reaction to the stage performance, furry pride is best left in the closet.
And buddy was in some sort of booth so for all i know he was making sandwiches for the road.
Bo-ring.
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the aphex twin show I saw was in 1997 or 98. I don't think his show has evolved much.
The magnetic fields' music is pretty much all electronic, but they just come up with live versions to do anyway. Definitely a better approach. Though the "acoustica" live symphonic recordings of aphex twin music are really really good.
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I saw Ulrich Schnauss at the World Financial Center last week and it was all him and a laptop. I would've been a little disappointed if it weren't for the projections behind him and the fact that it was a free show. Not like I expected a live band, but I thought there might be some live vocalists. I left after about 6 songs.
Ben Neill was the only other decent laptop show I remember going to because he has a crazy mutated electronic trumpet that he plays over the laptop stuff.
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I was at that show too.
I was thinking that a benefit of laptop shows is being able to hear the music at a volume that i can't experience at home. You get to hear the music at a concert-level volume, so that's nice.
Also, the physical space of the Winter Garden is pretty neat, so it was a cool place to visit.
It didn't so much matter that it was live, but I guess that's what brought people together to listen to it & if you're a big fan, maybe you can meet the artist afterwards.
It's just a thing, I guess it's silly but it can be fun too.
(I really need to get some new adjectives into my vocabulary -- sigh.)
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I saw Girl Talk do a show at my college and it was fun. I think the laptop performance works for him because he's just a DJ doing sampling off his laptop. If it was a show just in a theater with people sitting (like I've heard of some laptop performances) then I'd be skeptical.
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I saw an AMAZING laptop-only performance by Pita and Marcus Schmickler a couple of years back that totally sold me on computer music. I guess the point is that if the music is great enough then it doesn't really matter what the performer does. Sure, you could stay at home and listen, but especially with more 'beatless' stuff, the performer has a lot more going on than some dude who just pre-sequenced everything and pushes buttons for show. Anyways, the ratio of fakes to geniuses is no lower in computer music than it is in every other kind of music you might see at a bar.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QbBBczzDeCA&feature=related
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Music is music, that's what I say. I embrace laptop/ipod bands as long as they fully entertain me. People like Anna Oxygen for example. I have a few friends who do this as well, and it's all about interaction with the audience and having fun. Who needs instruments to have fun?
Also isn't Girl Talk technically a DJ? I mean, he uses other people's music entirely and does mashups right?
Although I guess the line between the two is getting blurrier every day.
EDIT saw your post, jamesp, so I guess my DJ comment is redundant. However, I still think that a sitdown perfomance laptop music can be wonderful (saw greg davis and keith fullerton whitman perform a few years ago...they had projections and a few extra gizmos but it was principally a laptop show and I loved it).
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i saw a video on Youtube of OCDJ (used to bat clean up on the New Power Tuesdays) performing on a laptop with a live drummer. it looked like fun.
there seems to be a lot of debate among the DJ community about the use of laptops and programs like Rane's Scratch Live VS. vinyl. it seems to me that a lot of DJ's that use Scratch Live are still doing a lot of mixing on the spot. i did however witness Rob Swift get yelled at by someone that he was some how "cheating" because he was using Scratch Live. Rob's reply was to tell the guy to carry around 200 albums for 20 years and then tell him he was "cheating"
as far as "laptop" music, like all music there is A LOT of crap out there, and there is some real good stuff too. i have heard the Girl Talks live shows are not to be missed.... however the new album really is not cutting it for me.
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Thanks for all the input. One of the reasons why I posed this question/grumble was that I've been making some tunes that incorporate live guitar with tracks on the laptop, and am wondering whether or not it could be translated into a live performance. At first I think that maybe if there were some 'trippy' visuals playing it might add to the experience, but part of me thinks that that is a bit of a cop out/ played out (unless they are top notch ala Emergency Broadcast Network or Skinny Puppy). The whole super-8 footage on a white bedsheet seems to have done it's duty many times over.
I think the only way it might work is if the focus is not on the musician(s), but if they are there to simply add ambient sound/music to the room. I guess I'm gonna just have to step up and experiment with this and see if it's successful, and if not, make it a cd/mp3 only deal.
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You can also engage the crowd directly. Momus is a good example. He performs his songs to track, and there's technically very little going on, but half the show is crowd banter, which can be tense and hilarious. When I saw him, he improvised biographical songs for $5 each.
Most of the hostility toward laptop musicians comes from their aversion to anything resembling charisma, but that's not a requirement of the medium. There are many paths up Mt. Entertainment, and not all of them require a Flying V.
In answer to your question, I was blown away by Tim Hecker, but that's mostly because I was drunk, and because the Empty Bottle has a much better stereo system than I do.
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One of the lamest laptop shows I saw was Plaid, where they tried to spice things up by having a camera on a cheap robot arm that mixed footage of them -- the schlubbiest looking skinny nerd guys you can imagine -- in with their also kinda lame video show.
Good music, though.
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In answer to your question, I was blown away by Tim Hecker, but that's mostly because I was drunk, and because the Empty Bottle has a much better stereo system than I do.
Did you see him at that show put on by Wire with Jandek and Rhys Chatham?
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In answer to your question, I was blown away by Tim Hecker, but that's mostly because I was drunk, and because the Empty Bottle has a much better stereo system than I do.
Did you see him at that show put on by Wire with Jandek and Rhys Chatham?
That's the one. Solid night all around.
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"Software and computers are the most punk rock thing that's happened, ever."
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUVAA1cGREo[/youtube]
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Could be a smash or trash contender.
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Excellent "laptop" performances are not necessarily the most accessible spectator events. Without understanding the fundamental processes of programs like Max, Supercollider and Pd, everything seems like Waveplayer -- completely pedestrian and unintuitive.
Regarding environmental DSP and programming, computers are, as Mr. Girlz Talk says, very exciting tools for music production and (most importantly) performance. Again, that's not saying music made through and by the aforementioned programs will be "better" than other forms. (Quickly: who is the "rap computer" again? Is it Trembling Eagle?)
Open environment music software has undoubtedly helped expand the possibilities of participatory musical experience. Take, for instance, the work of megagenius Luke Fishbeck (aka Lucky Dragons).
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqkqgq867j8[/youtube]
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Where's Councilman Lipski when you need him?