FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Trembling Eagle on August 10, 2008, 06:42:51 PM
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Because if I would hit a guy for something, why would I not hit a woman for the same offense? The reason I wouldn't hit a small child or animal for the same offense is obvious. To put a woman in the same category strikes me as being biased.
Why is this logic flawed?
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Why is your logic of not not hitting women flawed or why is logic the logic that puts women in the same category as small children and animals flawed?
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I make sure to only hit people that are smaller and weaker than me. It just makes sense.
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I'm bored, but is I don't want to keep posting on this thread. What's the answer to the question, though? The anticipation is killing me.
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I am not sure I understand this:
Because if I would hit a guy for something, why would I not hit a woman for the same offense? The reason I wouldn't hit small child or animal for the same offense is obvious. To put a woman in the same category strikes me as being biased.
Why is this logic flawed?
but the answer to the question in the subject line is yes. Please note that this is my opinion, and as I am female, it the opinion of all women everywhere and the matter is now closed.
Hitting people is kind of a dick move anyway. If someone's bothering you, why not just put ex-lax in their coffee?
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According to Randy "The Ethicist" Cohen, it's acceptable to hit a woman, but only in order to prevent a terrorist attack.
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There's a fine line between sexism and chivalry. I appreciate that my boyfriend would never hit a woman (he has said as much) but I can understand why, if I hit a dude, he might hit me back. But being only 5 foot 1 would make it (in most cases) an incredibly unfair fight. That, and I'm an utter weakling who has never been in a fight.
So I see it as a pretty normal sentiment and not all that sexist. But that's coming from a somewhat weak, non-violent, short girl...
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It's fair to say "I'm not going to beat someone up if they are clearly smaller than weaker than me" but it's sexist to say you are not going to hit a woman because they are all clearly weak and small. Also: incorrect.
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True. But there are some things that are just bred into certain guys in regards to how they treat women. For instance (and this took some getting used to) my boyfriend always likes to help me with my bags if I have groceries. Like to the point where if I have two bags of groceries he likes to carry both of them for me. I usually don't like it and I fight with him so that we can both carry one.
But he doesn't do it because he thinks I'm weak. He was just taught that it was what you do. Hold doors for ladies, let them walk in front of you, carry the heavy bags, etc.
When he's not being all chivalrous, he's teaching me how to break guy's arms and shoot a shotgun. So I dunno... I guess one person might see a statement like "I would never hit a woman" as sexist, but to another it's just how they were brought up.
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I think when people say, "I would never hit a woman," they are bragging that they aren't wife beaters.
Stop bragging, assault elitists!
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I hit my husband all the time, but he never hits me back. The next time I hit him, it will be because he's a sexist. I never have hit a woman, but since I've never said I would never hit a woman, then I'm not a sexist for it. However, I'm a little confused because I once thought I wanted to push my old boss, who is not really a chihuahua on crack, but a woman, in front of a bus. I think that would go in the category of hitting. Since I didn't hit her, maybe I have sexist tendencies. I'm kind of ashamed of myself now. I don't want to hit people if I'm uncomfortable with it, but I also don't want to be a sexist.
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I think when people say, "I would never hit a woman," they are bragging that they aren't wife beaters.
Stop bragging, assault elitists!
I can't stand snobs!
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When he's not being all chivalrous, he's teaching me how to break guy's arms and shoot a shotgun. So I dunno... I guess one person might see a statement like "I would never hit a woman" as sexist, but to another it's just how they were brought up.
Your boyfriend is cool.
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I like you more and more, Julie.
And, TE? Emma is correct.
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I am not sure I understand this:
Because if I would hit a guy for something, why would I not hit a woman for the same offense? The reason I wouldn't hit small child or animal for the same offense is obvious. To put a woman in the same category strikes me as being biased.
Why is this logic flawed?
but the answer to the question in the subject line is yes. Please note that this is my opinion, and as I am female, it the opinion of all women everywhere and the matter is now closed.
Hitting people is kind of a dick move anyway. If someone's bothering you, why not just put ex-lax in their coffee?
This is probably the healthier/saner attitude to have towards life, that there is never a reason to hit anyone. I think most educated women of means will hold such a civilized outlook. But I think many men and people in the lower social strata will agree there are circumstances in life that will call for hand to hand combat no matter how much you try to avoid them. In defense of loved ones for example or self defense.....even a preemptive strike or push if one fears for ones safety.
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When someone says "I would never hit a woman" I immediately think "Either you beat your girlfriend or you think about it every day and the only thing stopping you is this outdate chivalrous code, you ape."
Sorry, that's jsut my thought.
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I hit my husband all the time, but he never hits me back.
Julie, stop hitting your husband! Not to tangent too much (or get too heavy), but I find that in this liberated day and age when questions like the title of this thread are still being understood, the phenomenon of men being abused by their ladies is disturbing enough to bring up.
The old standard of a woman hitting a man being meaningless, or a man being a wimp if they don't just walk it off, is in stark contrast with the relatively modern edict of equality. In these 'recent' decades, we've all come to know that a woman being hit by a man is 100% unacceptable, but society still holds on to the old flip side of the "men are stronger and more resilient" taboo, that makes a woman smacking her male partner around nothing more than a joke.
I look down at the scars on hands as I'm writing this and know that if it'd been me that put them on the girl who gave them to me instead of the other way around, I'd be sitting in jail without any second thought, whereas instead I just let it go and endured getting beat up because I was bigger than her (aka big enough to take it). Through the course of the relationship, I never even considered defending myself like I would have if she'd been a man, because it's burned so hard into my brain that women should not be hit under any circumstances, and rightfully so.
This is obviously not an endorsement of violence against women at all, but merely raising the question of why violence can still be treated as mundane, if it's not delivered by a man.
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Oh, well, now I feel bad. Thanks a lot!
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I didn't mean that directed at you dear Julie! It just sparked the long boring thought, so I had to share. I'm sure your milquetoast husband is fine.
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I hit my husband all the time, but he never hits me back. The next time I hit him, it will be because he's a sexist. I never have hit a woman, but since I've never said I would never hit a woman, then I'm not a sexist for it. However, I'm a little confused because I once thought I wanted to push my old boss, who is not really a chihuahua on crack, but a woman, in front of a bus. I think that would go in the category of hitting. Since I didn't hit her, maybe I have sexist tendencies. I'm kind of ashamed of myself now. I don't want to hit people if I'm uncomfortable with it, but I also don't want to be a sexist.
What if the bus refused to hit her because she is a woman? Would it then be considered a sexist bus?
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Great! Now I can sleep. I'm a little disturbed because I thought everything is always about me, but I'll deal with that tomorrow.
I don't think it's excusable for women to beat men. I only hit my dear husband when we are wrestling or when he lets me demonstrate a self defense move. I think most men are physically stronger than their partner and could fight back, though. So it might be the psychological aspect of abuse that disturbs people more than the victim's sex. You know, like people who say, "Well, she could have left him so what did she expect," about women who stay with their abuser and keep getting the shit kicked out of them. Women do get arrested for domestic violence, though. I've seen it on Cops. And men don't always get arrested, even when the police are called. I heard a cop one time tell a woman not to call them again because it would ruin the reputation of the neighborhood.
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When he's not being all chivalrous, he's teaching me how to break guy's arms and shoot a shotgun. So I dunno... I guess one person might see a statement like "I would never hit a woman" as sexist, but to another it's just how they were brought up.
Your boyfriend is cool.
This is true.
All that "chivalrous" stuff is, of course, firmly based in sexism--opening doors and carrying things and not hitting ladies (by the way, the word "ladies" can only ever be pronounced with a head-tilt and a kind of lounge lizard point-wink thing)...that whole tradition is based very firmly in the idea that we are the fairer sex, and therefore the weaker one, and we need dudes to do stuff for us. Which is, as we all know, is not true.
But I wasn't implying (and I hope you don't think I was!) that your boyfriend is not just an awesome guy for doing those things. Clearly he's not sexist, he's doing that stuff because he has manners and because he was raised to do good things for the people he loves. That's totally different. I just think it's always important to remember where all that stuff comes from originally.
[/stating the obvious]
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I think when someone says "I would never hit a woman" it's usually implied that it's in the sense of domestic violence. It's not sexist to hit a woman of relatively equal strength or who was the aggressor.
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When he's not being all chivalrous, he's teaching me how to break guy's arms and shoot a shotgun. So I dunno... I guess one person might see a statement like "I would never hit a woman" as sexist, but to another it's just how they were brought up.
Your boyfriend is cool.
This is true.
All that "chivalrous" stuff is, of course, firmly based in sexism--opening doors and carrying things and not hitting ladies (by the way, the word "ladies" can only ever be pronounced with a head-tilt and a kind of lounge lizard point-wink thing)...that whole tradition is based very firmly in the idea that we are the fairer sex, and therefore the weaker one, and we need dudes to do stuff for us. Which is, as we all know, is not true.
But I wasn't implying (and I hope you don't think I was!) that your boyfriend is not just an awesome guy for doing those things. Clearly he's not sexist, he's doing that stuff because he has manners and because he was raised to do good things for the people he loves. That's totally different. I just think it's always important to remember where all that stuff comes from originally.
[/stating the obvious]
Obvious or no that's a profound point. If the chivalrous stuff is based in an old sexist paradigm the implication is we should start phasing that stuff out. If those old standards are being absorb into a new civility I can't really say I've noticed one way or another. I haven't really paid attention. Are men still holding doors for women they aren't related to/dating etc?
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actually, emma, i dont think fairer equates to weaker. at least, never in my book. although, i'll be the first to throw the stone- i think women are weaker.
take for example anything that merits physical strength in which it is assumed that if a woman is unable to do it, ask a man; its obvious to me that men and women are not equal in this regard. however, i do not believe that since a women may rely on a male counterpart for physical favor, it means she is weaker in spirit, which is how people seem to equate those two things (inappropriately). there are plenty of things guys cant do that come with ease as a lady.
in any case, i dig chivalry from both sides. i live by the golden rule: treat people how you want to be treated: no hitting.
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Obvious or no that's a profound point. If the chivalrous stuff is based in an old sexist paradigm the implication is we should start phasing that stuff out. If those old standards are being absorb into a new civility I can't really say I've noticed one way or another. I haven't really paid attention. Are men still holding doors for women they aren't related to/dating etc?
Personally I think I just like the idea of there being ladies and gentlemen in the world. I don't like the idea that having class is somehow outdated. But reminding people that you "don't hit women" is like saying I feed my pets, or I don't drive drunk, people don't deserve a reward for that.
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Sounds like everyone just needs to watch Mad Men.
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opening doors and carrying things...that whole tradition is based very firmly in the idea that we are the fairer sex, and therefore the weaker one, and we need dudes to do stuff for us. Which is, as we all know, is not true.
I would say just as equally, dudes do all that stuff with the hopes of getting laid, not to highlight the woman's perceived weaknesses. This wanting to get laid motivation is, for better or worse, the subconscious motivator for damn near most male behavior throughout history, in war, politics, economics, etc.
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Hitting people is kind of a dick move.
This is my campaign slogan for 2012.
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When he's not being all chivalrous, he's teaching me how to break guy's arms and shoot a shotgun. So I dunno... I guess one person might see a statement like "I would never hit a woman" as sexist, but to another it's just how they were brought up.
Your boyfriend is cool.
This is true.
All that "chivalrous" stuff is, of course, firmly based in sexism--opening doors and carrying things and not hitting ladies (by the way, the word "ladies" can only ever be pronounced with a head-tilt and a kind of lounge lizard point-wink thing)...that whole tradition is based very firmly in the idea that we are the fairer sex, and therefore the weaker one, and we need dudes to do stuff for us. Which is, as we all know, is not true.
But I wasn't implying (and I hope you don't think I was!) that your boyfriend is not just an awesome guy for doing those things. Clearly he's not sexist, he's doing that stuff because he has manners and because he was raised to do good things for the people he loves. That's totally different. I just think it's always important to remember where all that stuff comes from originally.
[/stating the obvious]
This is a great point! I totally see what you're saying about the origins of all that stuff.
And it's funny, because from Greg (my current BF) I never get annoyed when he does little chivalrous things for me. Because they seem to come naturally to him, and he really does treat me equally in every way. He just holds the door and carries my shit for me sometimes. Like it's programmed or something. I've dated guys who did that stuff sort of in a smarmy, slick way, and it came across just wrong. Gross, even.
But like I said, he tries to convince me I should defend myself by breaking dudes arms and stuff like that...
A few weeks ago some guy randomly grabbed (and I mean GRABBED) my ass in a Walmart and after I told him about it, I was subject to lessons on how I could have caused that ass grabber physical damage if it ever happened again. I resisted such training. I'm just not into it. I'd rather walk away, cursing under my breath, or flee to safety. So if we were in a situation where I needed to physically defend myself and Greg was able to assist me in that arena, I'd love it.
And on the flipside of that, I cook most of the time when we're together because he is almost useless in the kitchen. He'd be happy eating tuna fish every night and looks like a deer in the headlights when we go to the grocery store.
I guess some people just kinda fall into those typical gender patterns... it's funny because to meet either one of us you'd never think I was some kind of domestic goddess or he was a macho man.
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Men more generous when with pretty women
Men, it would seem, always have an ulterior motive – even when it comes to giving to charity.
Psychologists have discovered that men give more money when in the presence of a woman they find attractive compared to one they find unattractive, or members of their own sex.
However, researchers at Oxford University and the University of Kent found that females were not influenced by who they were with and showed little change in the amount of money they gave.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=A1&xml=/earth/2008/08/02/eagenerous102.xml
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Is it sexist that I get more mad at a guy beating up a girl than I do when I see a guy beating up another guy?
Is it species-ist that I get FUCKING ENRAGED if I see someone beating a dog, but could generally care less about people getting beat up?
Is it sexist that I apparently just compared women to dogs?
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Just like "I'm not racist, but..." the claim is a caveat of guilt. The statement itself isn't telling so much as what isn't being said.
I'm guilty of seemingly/possibly indiscriminate acts of violence but..."I'd never hit a woman", which when push comes to shove probably isn't strictly true either.
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I definitely would never hit a woman Olympic swimmer.
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I definitely would never hit a woman Olympic swimmer.
By "hit" do you mean "I'd hit that?" Are you saying that you don't find Natalie Coughlin irresistible?
Pinko.
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I hold doors for people, not because of any societal pressures based on gender roles, but because I really like to do that little arm wave “no, please, you go first” flourish, which is a seriously underrated physical gesture.
Also, I don’t like to use revolving doors, not because of any societal pressures based on gender roles, but because I’m afraid someone will block me in from one side and someone else will block me in from the other when I’m in the middle of the revolving door, and then knockout gas will stream in as I’m trapped there and I’ll be kidnapped.
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I hold doors for people, not because of any societal pressures based on gender roles, but because I really like to do that little arm wave “no, please, you go first” flourish, which is a seriously underrated physical gesture.
I love that, it's so 19th century.
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I hold doors for people, not because of any societal pressures based on gender roles, but because I really like to do that little arm wave “no, please, you go first” flourish, which is a seriously underrated physical gesture.
i do this as well, unaware of whom i am holding the door open for. to top it off, i say, "ladies first."
always gets a chuckle. (im cheap.)
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I hold doors for people, not because of any societal pressures based on gender roles, but because I really like to do that little arm wave “no, please, you go first” flourish, which is a seriously underrated physical gesture.
i do this as well, unaware of whom i am holding the door open for. to top it off, i say, "ladies first."
always gets a chuckle. (im cheap.)
you guys ever get the opening door duel off?
That's like the 4 way stop politeness duel, I remember after 9-11 everybody was extra polite at 4 ways.
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I have a friend who was really good at kicking the door a little and making it look like he hit himself in the face with it. He would get people every time, even after they had seen him do it.
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is it sexist if I only hit women?
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yes. man-hater!
wait. whut?
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I would never hit a woman. Strictly psychological abuse for me, thank you very much!
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I'm with Buffcoat for sure.
A woman Olympic swimmer would hit back much, much harder than I could likely hit her.
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is it sexist if I say I only want to have sex with women?
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is it sexist if I say I only want to have sex with women?
A little homophobic I think.
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is it sexist if I say I only want to have sex with women?
A little homophobic I think.
What if he only wants to have sex with homosexual women?
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then he's normal.
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then he's normal.
that was great
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After reading this thread, I've been thinking about this time I was having a conversation with a co-worker about 15 years ago, and I still remember the conversation. I don't remember why, but my co-worker told me that he would consider hitting his wife if she made him really mad. I remember having no idea why my co-worker would tell me this, other than that he might have been seeking some kind of validation for having done so in the past. I don't remember how I responded, since I think I was so puzzled as to why he would tell me this and actually might not have registered my disagreement. I remember thinking that I couldn't imagine any circumstance in which it would be acceptable for someone to strike his or her spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend. So I don't find it at all sexist to say something like, "I would never hit a woman."
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I once, in a fit of rage, threw a bathrobe at my ex boyfriend.
It was the saddest display of physical violence either of us had ever seen. I actually smacked myself in the eye with the belt of the robe when I did it. Pitiful.
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A very very long time ago I became so enraged that I threw loud objects on the floor and stormed out of the apartment to walk around the block five times. Even this is an extremely negative thing. Taking your rage out on inanimate things should be terrifying enough for the other person. I guess everyone already knows this, but If someone is making you so mad you want to beat them up, you DEFINITELY need to leave that relationship/situation. It's like Ghostface says "If I hit you then I might as well leave 'cause I don't deserve you." Um... yeah.
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is it sexist if I say I only want to have sex with women?
A little homophobic I think.
I don't understand the reasoning that would make it homophobic. Is a gay gentlemen that doesn't want to have sex with women heterophobic?
Homophobic gets thrown around a little too much. There are a lot of homophobes, but not being gay doesn't make you homophobic.
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I just think it's a disingenuous statement is all. If should go without saying, unless you actually are into hitting people, in which case, I don't believe you.
Even then, it's easy for me to say "I don't hit women" but I can't say "I won't hit a woman EVER" because you never know. There are bizarre and strange people out there.
What if I'm walking down a dark alley and female ninjas drop down all around me?? What do I do then, if I've taken this vow? I die, that's what I do. H-YAH.
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I'm about to take all you pacifists to Fist City.
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I'm about to take all you pacifists to Fist City.
you SURE you only want to date women?
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punching fists, not fisting fists
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This sounds like a conscience call. Very well. If you can hear this kind of thing coming out of your mouth, and you aren't urged to keep your hands broken at all times for the good of the public, then go ahead and swing away at them broads.
C
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FgMLROTqJ0[/youtube]
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I'm about to take all you pacifists to Fist City.
you SURE you only want to date women?
you're mistaken, that's the new construction project he's working on: Fist City.
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I haven't actually struck anyone in earnest since I was about thirteen, to be honest. If I ever have to fend off female ninjas, it's going to be a very sad sight indeed. But I'll TRY, dammit. ;)
Actually, wasn't there some sort of dictator who kept all female bodyguards for a reason along these lines ~ the cultural/moral dilemma of attacking? Or did I just read that in a piece of fiction?
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because you never know. There are bizarre and strange people out there.
What if I'm walking down a dark alley and female ninjas drop down all around me?? What do I do then, if I've taken this vow? I die, that's what I do. H-YAH.
Of course, you defend yourself, unless they point a gun at you. That goes without saying. I didn't think this thread was about violent people attacking for no reason, be they men or women.
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I haven't actually struck anyone in earnest since I was about thirteen, to be honest. If I ever have to fend off female ninjas, it's going to be a very sad sight indeed. But I'll TRY, dammit. ;)
Actually, wasn't there some sort of dictator who kept all female bodyguards for a reason along these lines ~ the cultural/moral dilemma of attacking?
Khadafi keeps an all female security service
(http://static.flickr.com/122/308936536_6475af3719.jpg?v=0)
(http://static.flickr.com/113/308936555_1f2c7dcb21.jpg?v=0)
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A very very long time ago I became so enraged that I threw loud objects on the floor and stormed out of the apartment to walk around the block five times. Even this is an extremely negative thing. Taking your rage out on inanimate things should be terrifying enough for the other person. I guess everyone already knows this, but If someone is making you so mad you want to beat them up, you DEFINITELY need to leave that relationship/situation. It's like Ghostface says "If I hit you then I might as well leave 'cause I don't deserve you." Um... yeah.
If you ever find yourself in this situation again, I recommend walking around 5 blocks once, it's bound to be a more scenic route.
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In the title of this topic you misspelled "sexiest".
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A very very long time ago I became so enraged that I threw loud objects on the floor and stormed out of the apartment to walk around the block five times. Even this is an extremely negative thing. Taking your rage out on inanimate things should be terrifying enough for the other person. I guess everyone already knows this, but If someone is making you so mad you want to beat them up, you DEFINITELY need to leave that relationship/situation. It's like Ghostface says "If I hit you then I might as well leave 'cause I don't deserve you." Um... yeah.
If you ever find yourself in this situation again, I recommend walking around 5 blocks once, it's bound to be a more scenic route.
It's just this kind of smug comment that DRIVES ME OUT OF MY FUCKING MIND!!!!
(Throws frying pan on the floor, exits hurriedly and slams door. Returns in 20 min.)
Well, ...You were right. Again!
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I haven't actually struck anyone in earnest since I was about thirteen, to be honest. If I ever have to fend off female ninjas, it's going to be a very sad sight indeed. But I'll TRY, dammit. ;)
Actually, wasn't there some sort of dictator who kept all female bodyguards for a reason along these lines ~ the cultural/moral dilemma of attacking?
Khadafi keeps an all female security service
(http://static.flickr.com/122/308936536_6475af3719.jpg?v=0)
(http://static.flickr.com/113/308936555_1f2c7dcb21.jpg?v=0)
Just like Lex Luthor!
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/dcanimated/images/thumb/a/a5/Mercy_Graves.jpg/250px-Mercy_Graves.jpg)
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I haven't actually struck anyone in earnest since I was about thirteen, to be honest. If I ever have to fend off female ninjas, it's going to be a very sad sight indeed. But I'll TRY, dammit. ;)
Actually, wasn't there some sort of dictator who kept all female bodyguards for a reason along these lines ~ the cultural/moral dilemma of attacking?
Khadafi keeps an all female security service
(http://static.flickr.com/122/308936536_6475af3719.jpg?v=0)
(http://static.flickr.com/113/308936555_1f2c7dcb21.jpg?v=0)
That Khadafi guy always seems to have everything figured out.
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[
That Khadafi guy always seems to have everything figured out.
So true. Back in the 80's I thought he'd be another flash in the pad dictator -- he'd do his time at the top, amass great wealth, and then be brutally overthrown. His staying power has surprised and he's been good for great laughs. The Amazon "security" team (wink, wink) is nice but let's not forget some other highlights. As a father, I always appreciated the lengths he would go to advance his son's football career:
"The coach of the Libyan national side Franco Scoglio has been sacked because, he claims, he refused to select Al-Saadi Gaddafi, the son of the Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and head of the Libyan Federation.
"They sacked me because I wouldn't let him play," said Scoglio after being fired on Wednesday. "And I would never have let him play, even for a minute. As a footballer he's worthless."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20020920/ai_n12648043 (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20020920/ai_n12648043)
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[
That Khadafi guy always seems to have everything figured out.
So true. Back in the 80's I thought he'd be another flash in the pad dictator -- he'd do his time at the top, amass great wealth, and then be brutally overthrown. His staying power has surprised and he's been good for great laughs. The Amazon "security" team (wink, wink) is nice but let's not forget some other highlights. As a father, I always appreciated the lengths he would go to advance his son's football career:
"The coach of the Libyan national side Franco Scoglio has been sacked because, he claims, he refused to select Al-Saadi Gaddafi, the son of the Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and head of the Libyan Federation.
"They sacked me because I wouldn't let him play," said Scoglio after being fired on Wednesday. "And I would never have let him play, even for a minute. As a footballer he's worthless."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20020920/ai_n12648043 (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20020920/ai_n12648043)
Dude is lucky he's alive.
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[
That Khadafi guy always seems to have everything figured out.
So true. Back in the 80's I thought he'd be another flash in the pad dictator -- he'd do his time at the top, amass great wealth, and then be brutally overthrown. His staying power has surprised and he's been good for great laughs. The Amazon "security" team (wink, wink) is nice but let's not forget some other highlights. As a father, I always appreciated the lengths he would go to advance his son's football career:
"The coach of the Libyan national side Franco Scoglio has been sacked because, he claims, he refused to select Al-Saadi Gaddafi, the son of the Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and head of the Libyan Federation.
"They sacked me because I wouldn't let him play," said Scoglio after being fired on Wednesday. "And I would never have let him play, even for a minute. As a footballer he's worthless."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20020920/ai_n12648043 (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20020920/ai_n12648043)
We can't get a unified English spelling of arabic surnames, Qaadafi, Kadafi, Gadaffi, Osama, Usama etc
the Bahai spent a lot of time perfecting a system of anglicized arabic I'm tempted to say go with that.
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My favorites: Gadaffi and Usama. They're so much more fun than any of the alternatives.
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My favorites: Gadaffi and Usama. They're so much more fun than any of the alternatives.
Also good variants: Moslem and Hindoo.
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Momar