FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: dave from knoxville on August 18, 2008, 03:48:22 PM
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http://www.crn.com/software/210101396
Reports: CRB Killed The Internet Radio Star Pandora
After an eight-year run, Pandora, the popular Internet music service, may be forced to shut down due to prohibitively expensive music royalties, according to reports.
"We're approaching a pull-the-plug kind of decision," Pandora founder Tim Westergren told The Washington Post . "This is like a last stand for Web casting."
The static involves Web radio stations, such as Pandora; the royalty collection organization Sound Exchange, which represents music artists, record companies and The Industry Association of America (RIAA); and The Copyright Review Board (CRB), an offshoot of The Library of Congress.
Last year, Sound Exchange won a decision from the CRB to increase Internet radio's royalties between 300 and 1,200 percent, according to the organization SaveNetRadio. Previously, Web radio services used to pay an annual fee plus a percentage of the profits.
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bummer.
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Fuck the RIAA.
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(And yes, I do not steal music, I buy it. I think I bought 8 CDs last week alone.)
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Pandora is like the only place any of my bands get played.
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So, uhhhhhh, does this effect WFMU?
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So, uhhhhhh, does this effect WFMU?
I think they've previously said no, although I don't understand why.
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(And yes, I do not steal music, I buy it. I think I bought 8 CDs last week alone.)
i do a lot of both, but still...i spend more money on music than anything else i own. and ive had to buy albums two, three times over. when i read things like "Last year, Sound Exchange won a decision from the CRB to increase Internet radio's royalties between 300 and 1,200 percent", it makes my teeth grind.
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I don't think it'll affect FMU because Pandora (as I understand it... I haven't been on it for a year or so and am not familiar with it's current format) draws income through advertising and web banners. Their system is also a little more complex because with every song it plays, it's referencing four others, so that may effect pricing and creating a larger overhead.
Since FMU doesn't advertise, the legal climate that effects internet streaming and AM/FM doesn't have the same sway (also another reason why DJ's don't talk about day jobs). No one is making money from FMU's broadcast, so income-wise, there's nothing to get a chunk from. So as long as they keep their ASCAP and BMI fee's in check, they can broadcast whatever they want, so long as artists are credited.
Also the big labels, like Sony/BMG, Universal and Warner don't have too much of their cash-cows played on FMU, they aren't inclined to pick fights with what they perceive as collage radio.
I imagine Donnie Ienner going over Fabio's playlist with a group of lawyers and collectively saying "what the fuck is this?"
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Also the big labels, like Sony/BMG, Universal and Warner don't have too much of their cash-cows played on FMU, they aren't inclined to pick fights with what they perceive as collage high school radio.
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According to the article I read about it, the licensing agreement for broadcast radio is completely different from this (and much more reasonable), in part because the recording industry hates the web, but also because presumably everyone listening to Pandora is listening to a different song (and the RIAA or ASCAP or whoever wants it to pay a royalty every time a song is played). Even though WFMU archives all of its shows on the web, it operates differently than Pandora or Last.fm or any "personalized radio" sites.
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in part because the recording industry hates the web
And they wonder why their ship is taking on water. Think they sit around the office reminiscing about the "olden days" too?
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I was on the exec staff of a college station about 7 years ago when all those letters went out saying that any station that was webcasting owed money to them with details of how much per song depending on how big the station was. I can't remember who sent them out... but anyway we stopped webcasting for a few months and chose to ignore the letter altogether since it was basically an extortion letter with the intent of getting settlements and then started webcasting again once we didn't hear anything about it again. I never heard if it was a scam or not but I don't think it was.
I would bet WFMU is not safe if Pandora doesn't eke this out. The recording industry is doing very little to adapt to the latest technology and they'll continue to drag their feet as long as they are allowed to keep finding untapped sources to milk money out of while using their outdated business model, and I don't see many people in power putting their foot down to stop the extortion.
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Pandora was the only web music thingy I ever enjoyed listening to. Interesting work being done there, too - it goes beyond the usual 'people who bought Who's Next also bought Bad Co's debut'. So much for that. The RIAA is ridiculous.
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The recording industry is doing very little to adapt to the latest technology and they'll continue to drag their feet as long as they are allowed to keep finding untapped sources to milk money out of while using their outdated business model, and I don't see many people in power putting their foot down to stop the extortion.
Apparently suing teenage kids didn't turn out to be as financially lucrative as they'd hoped. ::)
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the entire music industry can piss off
(http://media.monstersandcritics.com/articles/1374572/article_images/young3.jpg)
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wait, whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
what he said.
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i know that WFMU has been very proactive about any kinda move against them by the RIAA. the free music archive is a response to that, in addition i have seen a list of musicians that allegedly have never been paid by the RIAA, and someone in a FMU blog said that those musicians would be fair game to play over the internet. in addition to that i believe that FMU has been working to get permission from artists to play their music without having to pay any riaa fees.
i also remember that Ken addressed some of these problems in the State of the Station address a year or two ago. http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/KF2007 check out the March 10th show.
as far as pandora i say good night sweet prince. i saw the founder Tim speak a few years ago and i asked him a question about internet broadcasting and what they would do, if at the time, the riaa passed the new fee scale. he said something along the lines that it would not effect them since they make enough money... well i guess it turns out they did not make enough. the guy seemed like a smug jerk. also he said that Steely Dan was his favorite band, im not kidding....
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Who cares if he was a jerk and liked Steely Dan. Pandora is great. I use Last.FM more but there a lot of great businesses run by jerks with bad taste!
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Who cares if he was a jerk and liked Steely Dan. Pandora is great. I use Last.FM more but there a lot of great businesses run by jerks with bad taste!
Steely Dan in the greatest, man. 'Monkey In Your Soul' speaks to me.
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I refuse to dislike Steely Dan. You gotta be your own person!!!
My life coach taught me that.
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also he said that Steely Dan was his favorite band, im not kidding....
Did you ask if he had an Audio Guru?
I think Dave and I are the only ones here who are pro-Steely Dan. We're in good company though - Wurster's a fan.
Eat it, haters.
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I was listening to the song Here She Comes by The Beach Boys the other day and said "Hey, this sounds like Steely Dan... wait, this sounds like Steely Dan and I like it? Whaaaaaaaaaat?"
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I refuse to dislike Steely Dan. You gotta be your own person!!!
My life coach taught me that.
I can only listen to Steely Dan through a giant foam cone.
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I too am pro-Steely Dan. I even called and confessed this to Tom and didn't get GOMPed. I must've caught him on a good night or else he just took pity on me.
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I love Steely Dan. Dressing up all that disdain and contempt in the smooth jazz. Nice going, Fagen and Becker!
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I also enjoy Frank Zappa. Come on, who's with me??!?!!
Anybody?
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i have distaste for jazz in my rock music (or at all), but when i read an essay on the lyrics for "Hey, Nineteen" i went out and bought both Aja and Gaucho ($1 for both).
moral of the story: i don't like Steely Dan, but i don't dislike Steely Dan.
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Zappa?
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Zappa?
NO.
I tried to see what the fuss was about some years ago. It was more sad than anything.
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Zappa and Beefheart are the worst but I can deal with Safe as Milk. I haven't heard one Zappa song that I like.
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Zappa and Beefheart are the worst but I can deal with Safe as Milk. I haven't heard one Zappa song that I like.
I think I own about 40 Zappa CDs. Plus vinyl.
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Zappa and Beefheart are the worst but I can deal with Safe as Milk. I haven't heard one Zappa song that I like.
same here (although, i like "Ashtray Heart"). i can listen to Beefheart until it turns to nonsense. or is it all nonsense?
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I also enjoy Frank Zappa. Come on, who's with me??!?!!
Anybody?
Most of the musically dexterous goobeldy-gook stuff turns me way off, but I still go back to Freak Out and In It for the Money quite a bit.
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Zappa?
NO.
I tried to see what the fuss was about some years ago. It was more sad than anything.
I enjoyed Tom's impression of 'every Zappa song I've ever heard'.
To me, Zappa sounds like somebody who has some talent just trying too hard to be clever. I tried really hard to like that 'Plastic People' song.
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I also enjoy Frank Zappa. Come on, who's with me??!?!!
Anybody?
I saw Frank live twice in 1984 and twice again in 1988. I also met him briefly at a book signing in 1989- he still looked healthy, but miserable.
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Coffee will kill you, man.
I also enjoy Frank Zappa. Come on, who's with me??!?!!
Anybody?
I saw Frank live twice in 1984 and twice again in 1988. I also met him briefly at a book signing in 1989- he still looked healthy, but miserable.
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Zappa?
YES! Beefheart, not so much.*
*excepting Safe as Milk
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Safe as Milk is good but my favorite Beefheart is Clear Spot. I'm not so into the Troutmaskreplica/Lick My Decals Off, Baby free jazz/spazzy stuff.
Zappa, not so much.