FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: JonFromMaplewood on March 14, 2009, 07:00:59 PM
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I am assuming that the FOT include lots of creative writers, but I do not know for sure because I have not met any of you (which reminds me, is there going to be another FOT get together?). I am embarrassed to ask you writers the following question, but cannot think of a group more likely to have great answers.
I have written 110 single-spaced pages of a book. I sense I am about a third of the way to completion. Before I put the effort in to continue, I want to know: How do I start the process of trying to get it published? Stop writing and mail a small portion to publishers? Send everything I have so far to publishers? Wait to finish the whole thing before shopping it around? Also, should I forget sending it to publishers unless I have a connection?
If I never get this thing published, I am okay with that because my original goal was to simply "write a book before I die." But someone recently told me it's pretty good (I swear it's better than "When Turkeys Dare"), so I thought it wouldn't hurt to try.
Any suggestions you might have would really be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jon
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Wow. If I wasn't already embarrassed when I started this thread, then I sure am now.
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Keep writing, is my suggestion. My publishing/editing friends tell me all the time that they never want to see samples, they want the whole thing. I think that's the only real advice I can give you, never been in a similar situation myself. Best of luck!
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Don't feel bad, JfM. I share your goal of publishing a book before I die, a goal you are 110 single-spaced pages closes to than I am. (I am writing a script though for what it's worth, which I try not to think about too much).
I actually know a couple people who have met this goal and published books while still alive, but on asking one for tips on how did he do it, I was sent a link to an article about writing without getting too distracted by the Internet. So I suppose the fundamental thing is to do as Martin said, keep writing and writing and writing.
If I'm successful at pumping these published people for information (it's a small town I live in so I run into them from time to time), I will pass it along.
Stay strong,
SfB
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My wife is a writer trying to get her first novel published. She considers this draft mostly "done" and has been making contacts with publishers to send them the first two chapters, plus summaries and intro letter. Email me if you're looking for more specific details.....
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I get the feeling that a lot of writers feel that their work will only truly be validated if it's put out by a publishing house. I say screw waiting for months or years for a response (if you get any) and put the money you would've spent on postage into putting out your own damn book. Do a run of maybe 100 - 250 copies through lulu.com or other such service and peddle them around to friends and colleagues. Sell them at cost and when you make your money back, do another run. I remember the time a friend lent me Arthur Nersesian's (http://www.arthurnersesian.com/) The Fuck Up. He had bought it right from the author who was selling them from a stand on Astor Place. If it's good, it will eventually make it's way into the right hands and then maybe someone else can foot the bill to do another run of it.
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I'm with KtB. Getting in to real books is hard and weird. You can shop around for an agent, but they usually want you to have some other kind of writing creds before they're represent you, be it magazines/newspapers/comics whatever, unless you're incredibly good or have some good contacts (or you're one of the mutant famous - Bill Rancic and Stone Cold Steve Austin, I'm looking at you!). I can't imagine the blind solicits to publishers ratio of books that actually get published is very high either, although many of the recent success stories make it seem like it's possible.
I would pursue trying to find an agent or talking to someone in that venue for advice on how to go next, because I honestly can't imagine just sending samples to a publisher blind is ever a successful route (no matter how good your work is). I know in comics it's a dead end, and from that advice, I can say the best way to get work is to find editors and talk to them. Not sure what kind of access you'll have in that field though, as they're not as many book conventions as comics, yeah?
However, KtB is right. Spend a little time trying to pursue traditional publishing, but don't limit yourself from never getting it out to people in the meantime. Self publish and push it around. Listen to constructive criticism from your readers and then start another book. Go pester real writers at signings and such for advice if you can too. Don't give up! Fight!
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In principle, I agree with KTB and erech, but unfortunately, due to the web and all the self-/vanity-publishing services, the market is unimaginably flooded with would-be Neresians (or Eggerses, or Cory Doctorows, or that guy who wrote Bomb The Suburbs, or that other guy who wrote The Tawacores). This is not to discourage you, because you're surely brilliant enough to be the exception to the rule, but generally speaking, succeeding this way will take a massive about of energy, self-promotion, and luck. It also makes sense to start a journal with your buddies, like McSweeney's, n+1, or Yeti, and get one or two pieces by famous writers in there to garner attention for everything else in it, if you're up for that. You're probably better off submitting to a small press, though, if what you're doing is more unconventional or whatever.
I'm assuming this is fiction, as nonfiction follows different rules, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Martin is right - it's important to have it finished before you submit anything anywhere, because you need to have a really specific idea of what it is in order to just describe it accurately. People that work at agents and publishing houses read zillions of these things and can tell whether or not the submitter knows what s/he is submitting. So, finish it, and make sure it's finished (at least one rewrite) and once you're finished, double-space it, and come up with a pithy, super-specific, and professional-sounding one-page synopsis that will fit on a query letter. Then either pay for or pirate a subscription to the Writers' Digest website and send this letter and a few sample chapters (20 pages max) to agents and small presses. Some other tips:
-Use whatever personal favors you can cash in -- seriously. If there's a chance you can honestly say "so and so said you might be interested in my work," do it. Ask any friends you have in publishing or even related industries to read it.
-If you submit directly to larger publishing houses, your work will go to the slushpile, but it will definitely be read, probably by a 20-something assistant. If s/he likes it, s/he will pass it on. But even in the best-case scenarios, unagented writers who get in this way often get screwed out of subsidiary rights and so on.
-If you submit to an agent (the standard way to go), be as specific as possible -- use any personal connections you have, and barring that, know who they represent and say why that means they should add you to their roster. If one agent bites (and they're legit and you want to work with them), you should email the others as a courtesy (and/or to initiate a possible feeding frenzy, though that's unlikely (http://sadtrombone.com)). Agents have guidelines on their websites and you should know and follow them.
-If you approach a small press directly, you're more likely to be treated like a human being, though there's little to no money in it (though corporate publishing is collapsing anyway and these guys are probably the future). Again, all of the above follows, but be as specific as possible and try to show that you give a shit about what they publish. So, if you like the Alex Cox memoir published by Soft Skull, query them and mention briefly that you enjoyed that book and Repo Man changed your life, or whatever.
I learned all of this by standing behind John Hodgman in the phone room last week.
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What is the main difference between fiction and non-fiction?
I consider myself more of a non-fiction writer, and I have plans of writing a book. But I figured it would be nearly impossible for a nobody like me to get it published straight off the bat, so I thought of maybe starting a website, and posting parts of it every week or so in hopes of generating interest that way. If it somehow becomes popular or gets the attention of someone, I'd later edit it into a proper book and get it published.
I figure I have nothing to lose going that route. Though part of me wants to wait a while, since I'm currently a law student that plans to focus on entertainment law, maybe in the future I'll have enough contacts in the agent world to make something happen.
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I know nothing about the publishing world, but I read an interview with George Pelecanos where he said he blind-sent his first novel to one publisher and it got published (after a long delay), so while that's an unlikely scenario, it does happen.
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Jiminy Christmas! You people are the best.
I think I understand the options now.
Sounds like I have to call in every favor I have coming to me in order to have even a fighting chance. As for publishing it myself online or going small press or going with one of the big houses, I am still undecided. I can see an upside and a downside to all of them. But I guess I have time to think about it, seeing as you are all in consensus that I should have the damn thing finished before shopping it around.
If you're curious, the book is David McCullough meets steam punk.
I wrote that previous sentence as a joke. But now that I think about it, it's pretty damn close to right. Ew buoy.
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if you have any short stories, JFM, im putting together a small zine with my own work+etc. it wont pay any money, but i hit up another FOT who's on board. im looking for other writers, comics, etc. (open call at this point) who are interested in contributing to this small zine. once its finished, i'll be sending out FREE copies to any and all FOT & co. ive got a few of my own pieces to throw in there, just looking for any other contributors ("ads" promoting FOT bands, movies, etc.), and the cover will feature a photo of one of andy's cross stitches.
*note: this doesnt have to be anything long term; if you want to throw your skillz on the pile, go for it! this works especially well for the comic artists, one-liner comics, artists, short story writers, photographers...this will be a small zine.
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But I guess I have time to think about it, seeing as you are all in consensus that I should have the damn thing finished before shopping it around.
I forgot to say it, but Jason nailed it. When people are dumb enough to actually ask me for advice about comics, the only surefire bit I have is this; if you can actually finish it, and it's not total garbage, someone somewhere will publish it. Finishing stuff like this is harder than most people think. Just look at all the people we all know who say they're working on a novel/screenplay/graphic novel and you never see more than a few pages of it from them - if that. Hard stuff, Jack.
if you have any short stories, JFM, im putting together a small zine with my own work+etc. it wont pay any money, but i hit up another FOT who's on board. im looking for other writers, comics, etc. (open call at this point) who are interested in contributing to this small zine. once its finished, i'll be sending out FREE copies to any and all FOT & co. ive got a few of my own pieces to throw in there, just looking for any other contributors ("ads" promoting FOT bands, movies, etc.), and the cover will feature a photo of one of andy's cross stitches.
That sounds cool. I'd be down for something like that for sure - I'll put my thinking cap on and send you a pm soon.
RegularJoe and I had been talking about a collaboration on an FOT comic thing recently, but I've sorta adjusted the idea in my head that I want to put together a full-fledged Best Show anthology comic, with FOT far and wide pitching in. Sell it at cons or whatever and donate all the proceeds to the station. Think it'd be fun, and fun to read too. Lofty ambitions though, I'm sure.
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Looks like you've gotten some good advice already, and I'm certainly no expert, but what the hell, I'll chime in anyway.
Once you've finished a draft, I'd suggest you find out the contact info of agents who rep other writers you dig and send them query letters w/a sample chapter (or 30 pages or less). Some agents don't take unsolicited submissions, but a lot do. I've shopped novels before and gotten nibbles this way, though nothing published yet. *frowny face*
And if you know anybody in the publishing industry, by all means, bend their ear and exploit that connection the best you can (in a gentle way, of course).
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if you have any short stories, JFM, im putting together a small zine with my own work+etc. it wont pay any money, but i hit up another FOT who's on board. im looking for other writers, comics, etc. (open call at this point) who are interested in contributing to this small zine. once its finished, i'll be sending out FREE copies to any and all FOT & co. ive got a few of my own pieces to throw in there, just looking for any other contributors ("ads" promoting FOT bands, movies, etc.), and the cover will feature a photo of one of andy's cross stitches.
That sounds cool. I'd be down for something like that for sure - I'll put my thinking cap on and send you a pm soon.
RegularJoe and I had been talking about a collaboration on an FOT comic thing recently, but I've sorta adjusted the idea in my head that I want to put together a full-fledged Best Show anthology comic, with FOT far and wide pitching in. Sell it at cons or whatever and donate all the proceeds to the station. Think it'd be fun, and fun to read too. Lofty ambitions though, I'm sure.
the hardest part ive encountered thus far is finding a cheap way to publish it. since im not looking for profit (i was going to donate all the money to WFMU- get out of my brain), maybe charging a $1 or so, its hard to find a way to break even. i want it to look nicer than xerox but it doesnt need to look fancy pants. i'll stop stealing JFM's thunder since he's looking for legitimate advice so PM me any ideas you might have, FOT.
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I'm on the periphery of the writer's world, but from what I've seen, getting some short pieces in curated spaces (like a journal or collection) is much more likely to get you notice than blind submissions. For example, the late Larry Brown, a self-taught novelist from Oxford, Mississippi, spent years getting rejections letters on his manuscripts. He finally attracted the attention of a small regional publisher when one of his short stories was published in a small southern literary journal..