FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Scot on May 17, 2009, 10:54:45 PM
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you know what i mean? bands/writers/moviemakers/etc who are great (and to a degree) respected but (this is the important part) not appreciated by as many people as their talent (i/you think) warrants.
my submissions for this doomed-to-fail topic:
rock band the fastbacks!
pulitzer prize-winning author pete dexter!
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This is a good topic. I can't really think of an author or filmmaker. But I will nominate two bands: Desperate Bicycles and The Monks. Desperate Bicycles were one of the first bands to self-produce and self-release their own music. They helped to catalyze the growth of independent music and they produced some really good material to boot. Unfortunately, all of their stuff is OOP. The Monks were just a great garage rock band that more people should listen to.
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Travis Linville
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the reigning sound
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I think the band Grandaddy should have been bigger. I'm very excited about former lead singer Jason Lytle's solo album coming out this Tuesday.
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the reigning sound
and the ponys!
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Paul Dinello was one of the key writers and funniest actors in Strangers with Candy, but neither him nor the show get the credit they deserve, IMO. Colbert is huge now, but I still laugh at SwC more than I do his show.
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Author/journalist Luc Sante; playwright and TV writer Dennis Potter; playwright Maria Irene Fornes; filmmaker Alejandro Jodorowsky (OK, he shouldn't be "big," but he should have more presence/credibility in film nerd circles); cult leader and maniac Mel Lyman; marginal Wu Shabazzz The Disciple (who I think still lives in the projects); The Volcano Suns.
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Donald Barthelme
Frederick Exley
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I think Barthelme's pretty big, as literary writers go. But he is great -- I suppose you could say he deserves to be Vonnegut-huge.
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JG, Potter is pretty damn big, I'd say as big as TV writers go. At least here in Europe; don't know about the rest of the world though.
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Orange Juice
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I think Barthelme's pretty big, as literary writers go. But he is great -- I suppose you could say he deserves to be Vonnegut-huge.
Joe Schmoe should at least know the name - I'm by sure he's still remembered by non-New Yorker subscribers.
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The Go-Betweens
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The Clean
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How do you guys find out about all these things?
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Paul Dinello was one of the key writers and funniest actors in Strangers with Candy, but neither him nor the show get the credit they deserve, IMO. Colbert is huge now, but I still laugh at SwC more than I do his show.
SECONDED!!
Joffrey Jellineck is one of the best characters in television history.
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This is a good topic. I can't really think of an author or filmmaker. But I will nominate two bands: Desperate Bicycles and The Monks. Desperate Bicycles were one of the first bands to self-produce and self-release their own music. They helped to catalyze the growth of independent music and they produced some really good material to boot. Unfortunately, all of their stuff is OOP. The Monks were just a great garage rock band that more people should listen to.
I just heard the Monks for the first time a few weeks ago when their album was reissued. Great album and I was surprised I'd never heard of them. I feel like the dB's deserve more attention. Stands for Decibels is classic stuff and it's unfair that not many people talk about them anymore.
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Charles Portis (author) and Comet Gain (band)
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The Monks, Orange Juice and the Clean are all critically acclaimed and known by most music nerds... I don't know if any of those bands really belong outside of that realm. I wouldn't think any of them belong on classic rock radio and if you don't belong there, your band kind of becomes one that only music heads really know about. So, while I agree that those are all great bands, I don't really know how much bigger they could really get.
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The Monks and The Clean probably would not belong on classic rock radio. But Orange Juice is tuneful, upbeat pop music. I think they'd be radio friendly. I mean, you hear a couple of Edwyn Collins songs from time to time. His solo output isn't too far a departure from his work with Orange Juice.
I think that the problem with compiling a list such as this is that is very subjective. I may think that the Monks, The Clean, and Orange Juice should be more popular. But someone else may think they're garbage. As you said, the interests of music nerds and the interests of casual radio listeners do not necessarily jive.
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We could also talk about "artist types" that were overshadowed by bigger-seeming bands at the time. For example: Babes in Toyland overshadowed by Hole even though Babes in Toyland were far far farrrr better.
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JG, Potter is pretty damn big, I'd say as big as TV writers go. At least here in Europe; don't know about the rest of the world though.
Yeah, he's mightily underappreciated here. It took me forever to dig up published editions of his work, and I think Singing Detective only came out on DVD a few years ago.
How do you guys find out about all these things?
The Friends of Tom board! And listening to WFMU, and generally having friends who are smarter than I am.
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Sometimes it's just a drag living in a place that like forty miles from a record store (or even a Target). Hell, I wouldn't know about WFMU if it wasn't from reading Matt Groening's wikipedia page.
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There's always the internet. I know it's no substitute, but even if you're broke, there are always great obscure out-of-print records up for free, and semi-legally, on people's blogs -- check out Doug Schulkind's posts on the WFMU blog to start.
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I like this thread.
Musician:
Nesey Gallons...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsIaa3jEg44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SK9Z-QgPSE
Writer:
Tao Lin
(Is he considered "big"?)
Filmmaker:
I'll agree with Jodorowsky.
Radio Talent:
JOE FRANK!
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How do you guys find out about all these things?
It's the obvious answer, but as Groteface Killah said, the Internet is the best way to find out about a lot of obscure and not-so-obscure bands. You'd be amazed by how much musical information/recommendations/downloads you can find on blogs or message boards like this. You can basically find any album you want on a blog. I mainly use blogs for the OOP material. Also, music-related message boards are also a great place for discovering music. For example, I discovered a lot of bands just by lurking on the Sound Opinions Message Board.
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The Monks and The Clean probably would not belong on classic rock radio. But Orange Juice is tuneful, upbeat pop music. I think they'd be radio friendly. I mean, you hear a couple of Edwyn Collins songs from time to time. His solo output isn't too far a departure from his work with Orange Juice.
I think that the problem with compiling a list such as this is that is very subjective. I may think that the Monks, The Clean, and Orange Juice should be more popular. But someone else may think they're garbage. As you said, the interests of music nerds and the interests of casual radio listeners do not necessarily jive.
I was actually going to say that Orange Juice might belong on classic rock radio... but you don't hear The Smiths there. Really, if they can't play an arena, X band is probably going to be lost to those who seek out good music.
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I was actually going to say that Orange Juice might belong on classic rock radio... but you don't hear The Smiths there. Really, if they can't play an arena, X band is probably going to be lost to those who seek out good music.
Yeah, you're right. It's a shame. If it's possible, it's even worse now because radio playlists are so tightly controlled and limited in their scope. There's no difference in what you'd hear on an alternative radio station in New York City vs. what you'd hear on an alternative radio station in Columbus, Ohio. Broadcast deregulation has led to the homogenization of commercial radio and has effectively killed whatever was once good about it. There's really no reason to listen to it anymore. That's why WFMU is so great, because its the antithesis of the average radio station.
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There's a commercial station here in Wilmington that definitely gets away with more than most. I don't even know what the format would be, they've played everything from The Smiths to Hank Williams to Jandek (I've only heard experimental stuff late saturday nights).
It's not completely free form because a lot of the same songs pop up from time to time.
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Charlie Pickett and the Eggs/MC3
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On a local scale, Peter Parker are my favorite Seattle-area band, and hardly anyone goes to see them anymore. It's sad. They broke up for about four years, then got back together in 2006 and have played shows every few months, but they just never seem to draw the crowd they deserve. They've got an awesome noisy punky/rock thing going, their lyrics are pretty smart, they've got a good, self-deprecating sense of humor, and everyone I've dragged with me to their shows has ended up really liking them, so it pains me greatly when there's only twenty or thirty people sticking around to watch their set, if that.
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On a local scale, Peter Parker are my favorite Seattle-area band, and hardly anyone goes to see them anymore. It's sad. They broke up for about four years, then got back together in 2006 and have played shows every few months, but they just never seem to draw the crowd they deserve. They've got an awesome noisy punky/rock thing going, their lyrics are pretty smart, they've got a good, self-deprecating sense of humor, and everyone I've dragged with me to their shows has ended up really liking them, so it pains me greatly when there's only twenty or thirty people sticking around to watch their set, if that.
That's weird. I used to love Peter Parker. Honestly, I think I find out about them searching the net for info on Spider-Man. I haven't listened to them in years. I should dig their stuff back out. To follow up on an earlier comment, I've actually found the internet to make it harder to find new stuff. Somehow, I found out about a lot of weird and offbeat music, movies, books, etc., in my pre-net high school days, but these days it seems all the stuff I read online just cross-promotes the same stuff. Another reason I'm glad I found WFMU.
For the topic, though, I can't believe that The Hold Steady aren't just super-popular. They're hardly my favorite band, but I like them, and they seem like they should be really, really huge. Maybe it's just 'cause I live in the sticks, but every time I mention them to someone, all I get is a blank stare. And although he's pretty well known in comic circles, I don't understand why more people don't read Chris Ware.
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thanks for the entries!
i guess what i was thinking when i proposed this was: who are some totally accessible artists who for some reason (probably just level of exposure) people seem to have not much interest in? (of course, there are people who are interested - just not as many as you/i would expect.)
so i totally TOTALLY get the reigning sound submission - it's insane to me that greg cartwright isn't all over npr, or mid-level venues to young and old folks alike. the guy is a genius, and he writes great songs that, it seems to me, should be stuck in the heads of way more people on this planet.
another band i left off was MOTO - esp "kill MOTO"-era MOTO. crazy big hooks, enormous sing-alongs, clever + funny + stupid lyrics ... listening to that record, it's hard for me to imagine a world of kids who wouldn't like it. pretty much the same goes for the fastbacks, who may be one of the most criminally underrated bands of the last 30 years.
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Director: Charles Burnett
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Charles Burnett is a great choice. I've long wanted to see Killer of Sheep, but I haven't done so yet.
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On a local scale, Peter Parker are my favorite Seattle-area band, and hardly anyone goes to see them anymore. It's sad. They broke up for about four years, then got back together in 2006 and have played shows every few months, but they just never seem to draw the crowd they deserve. They've got an awesome noisy punky/rock thing going, their lyrics are pretty smart, they've got a good, self-deprecating sense of humor, and everyone I've dragged with me to their shows has ended up really liking them, so it pains me greatly when there's only twenty or thirty people sticking around to watch their set, if that.
That's weird. I used to love Peter Parker. Honestly, I think I find out about them searching the net for info on Spider-Man. I haven't listened to them in years. I should dig their stuff back out.
They're really close to having enough stuff for a new album, and their new stuff is really good, they just need to get their act together and actually record it. My fiancee and I are befriending them (very very sloooowwwly), and were entertaining the idea of seeing if they would play a set at our wedding because we both like them a lot, but I'm thinking it'd be a pretty long shot.
And although he's pretty well known in comic circles, I don't understand why more people don't read Chris Ware.
I love Jimmy Corrigan, but I can't get into his other stuff for the life of me. There's only so much depressing bleakness I can take, I guess.
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On a local scale, Peter Parker are my favorite Seattle-area band, and hardly anyone goes to see them anymore. It's sad. They broke up for about four years, then got back together in 2006 and have played shows every few months, but they just never seem to draw the crowd they deserve. They've got an awesome noisy punky/rock thing going, their lyrics are pretty smart, they've got a good, self-deprecating sense of humor, and everyone I've dragged with me to their shows has ended up really liking them, so it pains me greatly when there's only twenty or thirty people sticking around to watch their set, if that.
That's weird. I used to love Peter Parker. Honestly, I think I find out about them searching the net for info on Spider-Man. I haven't listened to them in years. I should dig their stuff back out.
They're really close to having enough stuff for a new album, and their new stuff is really good, they just need to get their act together and actually record it. My fiancee and I are befriending them (very very sloooowwwly), and were entertaining the idea of seeing if they would play a set at our wedding because we both like them a lot, but I'm thinking it'd be a pretty long shot.
And although he's pretty well known in comic circles, I don't understand why more people don't read Chris Ware.
I love Jimmy Corrigan, but I can't get into his other stuff for the life of me. There's only so much depressing bleakness I can take, I guess.
Where can one hear new Peter Parker stuff, if one is in the midwest? Also, I know what you mean about Chris Ware, but I think when Rusty Brown is over, August of 2239, it will rival Jimmy Corrigan.
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Charles Burnett is a great choice. I've long wanted to see Killer of Sheep, but I haven't done so yet.
Make it a priority, it's amazing. I watched a bootleg of it over and over for many years, until it came out, beautifully remastered, on DVD last year. Watching it in that quality for the first time knocked me out.
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Charles Burnett is a great choice. I've long wanted to see Killer of Sheep, but I haven't done so yet.
I loved To Sleep With Anger when I saw it on VHS many years ago but I haven't been able to see it again. I don't think it's out on DVD.
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See, I'd say that both Chris Ware and Joe Frank are pretty huge for what they do -- Ware does New Yorker covers, which has to be the holy grail for any cartoonist. And Joe Frank and Gregory Whitehead are like the only two people in America who have made a career out of making radio plays, and Joe Frank is the famous one. He's definitely one of the only people we've ever played on The Acousmatic Theater Hour that listeners have actually heard of.
But maybe that's just the state we're in now -- the culture in general is fragmenting into little clusters of geeks, and has been for many years now. Although maybe that mythical era in the late 50s/early 60s when the average middle-class American read Saul Bellow and Philip Roth and had opinions about Picasso and Jackson Pollock is just that, a myth.
Anyway, I think the future is pan-geekdom, wherein online communities like this one share their various bodies of knowledge. One area I wish I knew more about was contemporary art, beyond the usual contingent of middlebrow Warholian con men. I went to see an exhibit of non-famous local artists at The Brooklyn Museum of Art a few years ago, and it was 100 times better than sensation, that Damien Hirst thing that got Giuliani so riled up. But I can't remember any of the artists' names. Then when I do get excited by an artist, like Kahinde Wiley, I look up and all the sudden they're doing car ads.
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Anyway, I think the future is pan-geekdom, wherein online communities like this one share their various bodies of knowledge.
I think that's the present, though in most cases "pan-geekdom" means "have a strong opinion on topics as varied as Star Wars, anime and old Nintendo games".
It seems to me like pretty much every music act that either debuted or released their best album sometime this decade is a niche artist, with the rare exception of someone like Kanye West or the American Idol participants. It's not like 1984, where everyone owned Thriller and Purple Rain and you could buy cassette tapes at the 7-11. Still, I think Jean Grae, Annie and King Khan deserve at least a bit more exposure.
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Anyway, I think the future is pan-geekdom, wherein online communities like this one share their various bodies of knowledge.
I think that's the present, though in most cases "pan-geekdom" means "have a strong opinion on topics as varied as Star Wars, anime and old Nintendo games".
It seems to me like pretty much every music act that either debuted or released their best album sometime this decade is a niche artist, with the rare exception of someone like Kanye West or the American Idol participants. It's not like 1984, where everyone owned Thriller and Purple Rain and you could buy cassette tapes at the 7-11. Still, I think Jean Grae, Annie and King Khan deserve at least a bit more exposure.
It's not like when we were young, and you could just walk down to your local club and see Nirvana.
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Oh, by the way, let me plug my friend's site about this sort of stuff:
http://hilobrow.com
Full disclosure: I write for them about once a week - just short 50-100 word pieces wishing high- and lowbrow figures happy birthday - but it's just something I do for fun.
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Chris Whitley
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Charlie Pickett and the Eggs/MC3
Whoa! So agreed! I came late to this thread. And I apologize.
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Thanks Ben, for your response I felt like I was being ignored "at best" -snubbed "at" worst.
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Thanks Ben for your response I felt like I was being ignored at best-snubbed at worst.
We shake hands. I'm a big Charlie Pickett fan. "Cowboy Junkie Au-Go-Go" is a fave.
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another band i left off was MOTO - esp "kill MOTO"-era MOTO. crazy big hooks, enormous sing-alongs, clever + funny + stupid lyrics ... listening to that record, it's hard for me to imagine a world of kids who wouldn't like it. pretty much the same goes for the fastbacks, who may be one of the most criminally underrated bands of the last 30 years.
I've only heard "Breaking Up Is The Hardest Thing" and "Dance Dance Dance Dance Dance To The Radio", but your assessment, in my humble opinion, is correct.
I'm gonna throw Scott Walker & The Walker Brothers into the ring. I've been familiar with "The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore" since I was a child, because it'd get played on our local oldies station (B101 was the only station my mom would ever listen too - it was swallowed up by Clear Channel or one of those conglomerates a few years back, so it's pretty much crap, ie the same four or so Bee Gees songs from "Saturday Night Fever", "The Pina Colada Song" and a weird smattering of 80s music, but I digress) every once and a while, but I just watched 30 Century Man, and Scott Walker has a pretty incredible body of work. Plus, he was a smart looking chap in the 60's.
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Scott Walker/The Walker Brothers is a very good choice. I've listened to a few of his albums from the 60's and they are great. The stuff he's released on Drag City is a bit too stark and melodramatic for my taste, but I appreciate the artistry.