FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: erika on December 22, 2009, 10:26:33 AM
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I need some perspective... pardon the wordiness here...
I was flat-out called an asshole by some of our friends the other night for suggesting that placing a chair in your parking space (that you dug out of the snow) is ok and is acceptable in some parts of the country. The argument being that if you live on a street with very little parking, the unspoken agreement with neighbors is that you can claim your parking space that you worked so hard for. This is usually only during snowy times, but I've seen it done when the streets are clear.
This isn't something I do myself, but I was considering it the other night.
I was told that it was equivalent to stealing public property and claiming it as my own. Now, I can understand not liking this phenomenon, and wanting to remove aforementioned chairs from the parking space, but why does it make people SO ANGRY?
When I pointed out that I lived in Pittsburgh for 8 years, where this is very accepted amongst neighbors, I was told "In some countries it's ok to beat your women in public, but that doesn't make it ok."
FOT's, help me. Is this such a terrible offense? I can certainly see people abusing it, but does doing it make you some sort of neanderthal? In cities like Baltimore and Pittsburgh where there are rowhomes with nothing but street parking, it's very common. Have any of you seen this?
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=114420143544
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This does not happen in North Dakota or when I lived in Minneapolis.
I would expect the 'chair placer' to acquiesce if someone moved the chair and parked in the spot and not yell a them or shoot them in response.
This is fascinating. Why don't people just steal the chairs for their frat-houses?
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Well yeah I'd hope no one would get their cars keyed or tires slashed if they moved the chair. But when I lived up there the chair-spots were usually right in front of the person's house. It seems reasonable to me.
The other thing is that in North D or Minnesota, people probably all pitch in and shovel snow, right? In Baltimore, plenty of people don't bother so it's like 40% of the people on the street doing all the shoveling for everyone. You'd be amazed.
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I can't wait to hear Andy's take on this.
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I imagine Andy is not fond of this sort of thing. Also, he might still need a hug...
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This is done in Chicago, unless it was successfully outlawed. I grew up in the suburbs, so I have never seen this behavior up close. The one thing I don't get - why not wait for the snow plows to come through?
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How will a snow plow help you when you're parallel parked on the street? They usually just create a foot-wide pile of snow next to your car...
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A few people would do this on the street where I grew up. In heavy residential neighborhoods where parking is tough I'd say it's presumptuous to think just because you shoveled you "deserve" the space more than someone else. If you move your car, you take your chances. One thing's for sure: it's not a good idea in neighborhoods with a large concentration of professional wrestlers.
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Just park in one of the many millions of strip malls and office parking lots that dominate your region. That's why Raleigh only has six buildings taller than about 8 stories.
Number of non-sporting event related situations where it took me more than two minutes to park this year: Zero. And the economy has killed off the second reason for not being able to park, Christmas shopping.
What? Every place is not like here?
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I have never heard of this until today, despite having lived my whole life in places that get plenty of snow. I think that it may be that in my neck of the woods, people are just used to the idea that getting a big dump of snow is a big pain in the ass, in all kinds of ways including parking, and we just have to deal with it.
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Does everyone deal with it, though? Where i live people think nothing of leaving their walkways and streets covered in snow. I think that's a key difference between places that get a lot of snow and places that don't.
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I was gonna say, this is a very Pittsburgh thing to do, and I didn't care for it when I lived there. The problem I had with it was, you'd only really see it in neighborhoods where someone wasn't probably going to park and stay forever anyways. Visiting a friend, food delivery etc, I literally had to move a chair once so we could park somewhere for like 20 minutes. It all stunk to me of "this is my street, stay away" mentality, and that's pretty disgusting.
I also didn't care for what I called the "yinzer doorbell" - people double parking in the street who were picking someone up for work/whatever, and instead of perhaps calling on their phone, or walking up and knocking on the door, would just sit there and lay on the horn until the person came to the car. 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, didn't matter. I was told by several Pittsburghers that was a totally normal thing to do, and that I was weird for thinking it was weird. Heaven forbid I'm not the one who needs the ride and's trying to get some sleep or whatever, yeah?
I don't know that I would call a friend an asshole over either of these things, but I definitely fall towards thinking it's a bit of asshole behavior if you're being stingy about these things.
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Where i live people think nothing of leaving their walkways and streets covered in snow.
I didn't care for that in Pittsburgh either. I chucked an ice ball through some richy-riches window when I lived in Squirrel Hill who left their sidewalk all iced up for a month and I almost died a slippery death on once. I was totally the asshole there, but I'll take that one.
Winter in Pittsburgh is the worst.
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I can see both sides of the argument. I probably would never do it myself, but I would also probably not park in a spot that was "saved" unless it was the last one available.
Likening it to beating women is ridiculous.
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you bust your ass digging out a spot, it's your fucking spot. that's all there is to it. who's the asshole? the person who just wants to coast in on your back-breaking labor, that's who.
basically, it depends on where you live, though, as far as how much you can expect people to respect that. people in chicago do it correctly. everyone knows what's expected and those who deviate from that are the assholes.
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I should add, in my experience this isn't a thing that only happens in winter. I could almost see the logic to that - you dig the spot, it's yours. My 45 year old neighbor in Pittsburgh kept chairs in front of his house all the time, year round. Eff that. Curbside parking is first come, first serve.
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I can see both sides of the argument. I probably would never do it myself, but I would also probably not park in a spot that was "saved" unless it was the last one available.
That's kind of how I feel. I've never actually done it but after shoveling snow for over two hours on Sunday, I would have been pretty pissed if someone had stolen my spot. Especially if it were one of the SUV's who, instead of digging out around their car, just gunned it out of the parking space, leaving what are now big ice boulders along the shoulder of the road and in the parking lane.
That said, I really need me some all-wheel-drive.
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The two most valid points are:
- It's a lot of work to shovel snow just to park one's car so the spot is deserved.
- It's a really unfriendly thing to claim a parking spot and it presents a "locals only" sort of vibe.
I have to agree with the anti-reservationists. A useful tool to determine if something is dumb is to extrapolate it to the extreme:
If everyone reserved their parking spot with lawnjunk, what then? It would likely be considered illegal, or at least arouse suspicion from the coppers. Some sort of ordinance or permit would be instituted or required.
If you want full control of a parking spot, it must contain a car. If you want to reserve a spot that you dug out even when your car isn't in it, park your second car in the spot until your first car returns.
Short answer: It's public property. Get that chair the fuck off the road.
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I wonder if there would be a market for very realistic inflatable cars that could be used instead of chairs. I suppose anchoring them into place might be tricky.
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I'm pro-chair with the caveat that i am from Pittsburgh and it's kinda in my blood to respect the chair. That said, i have never used one myself for reasons above and have had trouble wrapping my head around the concept my whole life. As for a non winter chair, i feel like those are kind of rare but would have no problem kicking one out of the way if need be.
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If you want full control of a parking spot, it must contain a car. If you want to reserve a spot that you dug out even when your car isn't in it, park your second car in the spot until your first car returns.
Short answer: It's public property. Get that chair the fuck off the road.
This presupposes that there is a shortage of parking spots. If that is the case then, I'd agree.
But if there are other spots available (though they might not be dug out) I think that there is a validity to chairing the spot. In this "abundant parking" situation you are not claiming the public property but the time invested in clearing it.
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I wonder if there would be a market for very realistic inflatable cars that could be used instead of chairs. I suppose anchoring them into place might be tricky.
WE NEED HOLOGRAMS!
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you bust your ass digging out a spot, it's your fucking spot. that's all there is to it. who's the asshole? the person who just wants to coast in on your back-breaking labor, that's who.
basically, it depends on where you live, though, as far as how much you can expect people to respect that. people in chicago do it correctly. everyone knows what's expected and those who deviate from that are the assholes.
I was going to agree with you, Hugger.
Then I noticed you edited your post and still didn't capitalize the beginning of your sentences? Sarah and I are both appalled! We respect basic gammer as you said yourself (and I quote):
those who deviate from that are the assholes.
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I may respect basic gammer, F., but affectations annoy more than appall me.
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I may respect basic gammer, F., but affectations annoy more than appall me.
Sorry Sarah. I need to loosen up. Annoy is fine.
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An apology? No need!
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What kind of chair? Wouldn't people just run over the chair?
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I like to set up a whole little living room. Couch, coffee table, lamp.
I read about some mayor in Maryland who asked everyone to move their cars (http://dcist.com/2009/12/snowpocalypse_paradox.php) so the roads could be plowed. Where would he like them to be moved to? I found that very funny.
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I am pro Erika, she is top notch, but this chair thing is new to me and I lived in the Northeast for 24 years. When a spot is vacated it is up for grabs. That said I would never insult a friend for trying to save a spot for themselves, that is way out of line.
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I like to set up a whole little living room. Couch, coffee table, lamp.
I read about some mayor in Maryland who asked everyone to move their cars (http://dcist.com/2009/12/snowpocalypse_paradox.php) so the roads could be plowed. Where would he like them to be moved to? I found that very funny.
This happens in Montreal! It's kind of an amazing process. After a major dump, they do regular plowing. But if they just left the accumulation at the sides of the street, after a few weeks there would be huge snow mountains eliminating all the parking and a good deal of the lanes.
So the city puts up signs a day ahead of time on the streets they'll be clearing snow from, and anyone who doesn't move their cars gets towed. They pick up the snow - suck it up, and shoot it into huge trucks - then return the towed cars(!), complete with parking tickets on the windshield.
There's got to be an insanely huge snow dump somewhere on the outskirts of Mtl.
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you bust your ass digging out a spot, it's your fucking spot. that's all there is to it. who's the asshole? the person who just wants to coast in on your back-breaking labor, that's who.
basically, it depends on where you live, though, as far as how much you can expect people to respect that. people in chicago do it correctly. everyone knows what's expected and those who deviate from that are the assholes.
I was going to agree with you, Hugger.
Then I noticed you edited your post and still didn't capitalize the beginning of your sentences? Sarah and I are both appalled! We respect basic gammer as you said yourself (and I quote):
those who deviate from that are the assholes.
Ha. You know, Fredericks, I was just posting an extra long facebook (Facebook?) status update this morning and said to myself, "It's time to start capitalizing again. Enough is enough." Sarah, I find the accusation that I would not capitalize as an "affectation" extremely insulting and also a ridiculous notion. It was born out of laziness and trying to keep my typing on pace with my thought process, then grew into a bad habit. Fredericks, you are back on my good side. Sarah, you're on the bad, maybe even in my hate pit. I'm very sensitive.
Bryan, the more I hear about Montreal, the more it adds to the good impression it made on me this past summer.
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Living in Buffalo all my life, I've never seen or heard of this until today. But that's probably just due to the fact that there are very few actual rowhouses in the city here - the vast majority of apartments in the city are in duplex or fourplex houses, so they've got little driveways in between that can usually accommodate at least 2 or 3 cars.
I can see both sides of this one, but I've gotta come down on the "no-chair" side of things. It's gotta be frustrating to live somewhere and not be able to regularly find parking nearby. However, I can imagine it would be really, really infuriating not being able to find parking because multiple spots are empty but reserved with chairs. I think chair-people need to accept that parking injustices are just one of those little quality-of-life tradeoffs that you sometimes have to make when you live in a city.
The atrocity of the "yinzer doorbell" mentioned upthread, although I've never heard that term, is extremely common here, as is the mindset of not understanding what might possibly be rude about it.
So the city puts up signs a day ahead of time on the streets they'll be clearing snow from, and anyone who doesn't move their cars gets towed. They pick up the snow - suck it up, and shoot it into huge trucks - then return the towed cars(!), complete with parking tickets on the windshield.
This is utterly fascinating to me, especially the part about bringing back the towed cars.
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Buffalo also knows what they're doing when it comes to snow removal. For those of us further south it seems that snow removal is some sort of mystery that involves the plow going around once and then two-foot-high piles of slush that last for weeks. It's pretty freakin sweet.
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Sarah, I find the accusation that I would not capitalize as an "affectation" extremely insulting and also a ridiculous notion. It was born out of laziness and trying to keep my typing on pace with my thought process, then grew into a bad habit.
And here I thought you were channeling E. E. Cummings or Don Marquis.
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Sarah, I find the accusation that I would not capitalize as an "affectation" extremely insulting and also a ridiculous notion. It was born out of laziness and trying to keep my typing on pace with my thought process, then grew into a bad habit.
And here I thought you were channeling E. E. Cummings or Don Marquis.
Nice job, Lubec, you drove off another one.
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Seriously though. Nice job.
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Sarah, I find the accusation that I would not capitalize as an "affectation" extremely insulting and also a ridiculous notion. It was born out of laziness and trying to keep my typing on pace with my thought process, then grew into a bad habit.
And here I thought you were channeling E. E. Cummings or Don Marquis.
Isn't this sort of the definition of an affectation?
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Maybe Hugman was spirited off to the Mac "White World" with John Hodgman.
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Looking out my window in Chicago, I can see about 10 chairs and 5 cars.
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There is long history of this going on in and around Boston. Chairs, barrels, cones, old televisions, you name it. Boston's mayor is reluctantly asking residents to remove their "savers" within 48 hours of a snowstorm to prevent lunatics from claiming a spot "for life" because they've shoveled it out a few time. Newcomers unfamiliar with this kind of thing have inevitably found out the "rules" the hard way via vandalism and assault. Now that the city sanitation department is physically removing the "savers" after two days most people are crying like the Bill of Rights was rescinded. The whole practice is really not something I should condone, but hey, I used to fucking do it myself!
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Newcomers unfamiliar with this kind of thing have inevitably found out the "rules" the hard way via vandalism and assault.
Man oh man, if anybody ever actually fucked with my shit over a lameass parking chair, it would be ON. My main advantage: I would know where they lived.
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Or at least where they like to park.
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I've seen it, but I wouldn't do it, and I live on a block with a number of hydrants, a church, inactive "active driveways" from which you will be towed, and some fake driveways. City living makes you desperate for a spot, I guess.
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I was born and raised in a residential area of Brooklyn (Mill Basin), and there the chair situation depends on the amount of snow and the post-storm weather. If we got a ton of snow and it's sticking around for a while, we put our trash cans in our spots. For the storm a week ago we didn't do it because everything melted pretty quickly: that being said, my brother was fired up when he found our neighbors had ganked his shovel spot and he had to park around the corner next to a snow drift.
It's not an anti-outsider move in that neck of the woods, because no one goes to Mill Basin unless they live there. I have noticed if the part of Boston I live in (Brighton, on the border of Allston) uses chairs, but given the general awfulness of parking in my area, I could imagine that blood would be shed if a shoveled spot got jacked.
I'll close with an awful spot-shoveling story: a few years back my girlfriend at the time lived in the Harvard Square area, and she had a car with CT plates that was illegally parked during a really bad snow storm (it was parked in a residential spot, not in front of a driveway or anything). We arrived at the car to find a few tickets on the windshield, and we started chipping at the ice and digging the mofo out. It was a bit of a struggle, and I am a fat kid, so we took a break at the halfway point and went in to warm up for a bit. When we got back the car had been towed: the tow driver had waited until we had dug it out enough for him to snatch it, and off he went. I did not win many Tommy Points that day.
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Where I live South Philly no matter what the weather is half the block is filled with chairs and cones holding spots. It drives me insane!
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Seriously though. Nice job.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/ejhuggins/needlebird.jpg)
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I don't know about this new guy and his sassy leggos.
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I don't even remember saying that.
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Seriously though. Nice job.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/ejhuggins/needlebird.jpg)
If only you'd reacted this way in the first place!
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I don't know about this new guy and his sassy leggos.
it's needlepoint, actually. get it?
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Seriously though. Nice job.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/ejhuggins/needlebird.jpg)
If only you'd reacted this way in the first place!
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/ejhuggins/needlebird.jpg)
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Seriously though. Nice job.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/ejhuggins/needlebird.jpg)
If only you'd reacted this way in the first place!
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/ejhuggins/needlebird.jpg)
Whyncha make that yer avatar pic, wisenheimer!
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I've seen it, but I wouldn't do it, and I live on a block with a number of hydrants, a church, inactive "active driveways" from which you will be towed, and some fake driveways. City living makes you desperate for a spot, I guess.
Ha ha ha ha fake driveways ha ha. You city folk.
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I've seen it, but I wouldn't do it, and I live on a block with a number of hydrants, a church, inactive "active driveways" from which you will be towed, and some fake driveways. City living makes you desperate for a spot, I guess.
Ha ha ha ha fake driveways ha ha. You city folk.
This one lady on our block has a curb cut thats big enough for a Fit and not much else, with a double gated fence leading to her yard. It isn't wide enough for a modern car, and everyone knows she doesn't have a car, but she will call the cops and have your car towed if you park there.
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This one lady on our block has a curb cut thats big enough for a Fit and not much else, with a double gated fence leading to her yard. It isn't wide enough for a modern car, and everyone knows she doesn't have a car, but she will call the cops and have your car towed if you park there.
Ha - that's an NYC archetype very close to the crazy lady who comes out and yells at you if you use her garbage can to throw a little something away, like a carton of OJ or a empty gum package. I always keep walking, staring back in disbelief, even though I want to march back and rip the offensive OJ carton out of their hands. I can never bring myself to do it b/c i figure that person's life is clearly miserable enough.