FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chris L on March 16, 2010, 12:58:33 AM
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I know most of you mohawked toilet rockers are probably more interested in music than sports, but objectively speaking, which subject has the better cinematic track record? Drama, comedy, documentary, etc. I would say more often than not, neither are depicted all that successfully or capture the excitement or appeal of their subject, but of course there are big exceptions. Unless this doesn't pan out, I was thinking the categories would encompass all sports vs. just rock music, albeit the broad parameters of "rock" as embodied by the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame, so no AMADEUS or STRAIGHT, NO CHASER or LEPRECHAUN VS. GLENN GOULD. Don't ask me whether something qualifies; as Steinski would say, "it's up to you."
I just hope this doesn't turn into a heated debate over which side gets to lay claim to BODY SLAM (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092684/).
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWscxdleZzI
I finally figured out why this video is so familiar. It's Dirk Diggler's '80s rock moment come to life! Do you consider Boogie Nights a rock 'n' roll movie?
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Neither sports movies nor rock n' roll movies are particularly well executed. In fact, most sports movies AND rock movies tend to be quite awful. However, in general, I believe that there are more quality films about sports than there are about rock.
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ROCK & ROLL HIGH SCHOOL
vs.
ZIDANE: UN PORTRAIT DU 21E SIÈCLE
The first great ones from each category that I could think of. I'll be back.
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I just watched Facing Ali and highly recommend it. The film masterfully captures both the beauty and the horror of the sport, and indeed of Ali himself.
In the pantheon of boxing films, I put it right up there with When We Were Kings, Kangaroo Jack, and Fisting Montevideo.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juaZFDWtjmI
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Hated is to rock music what Bull Durham is to baseball.
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Does Caddyshack count as a sports movie? A sport is featured pretty prominently but it's more than a stretch to say it's "about" golf.
The problem with a lot of movies that fall into both genres is that they're biopics of famous people, and biopics have a quality track record more or less equal to romantic comedies.
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Does Caddyshack count as a sports movie? A sport is featured pretty prominently but it's more than a stretch to say it's "about" golf.
The problem with a lot of movies that fall into both genres is that they're biopics of famous people, and biopics have a quality track record more or less equal to romantic comedies.
I would say Caddyshack absolutely counts, but then I was hoping someone would make an argument for The Room due to that constant football tossing (I think it was foreshadowing for the sequel: The Stadium).
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RE sports movies ... i think for me it tends to come down to some combination of how much fun is everybody having + athletic prowess + inspiration. How much fun is everybody having is an easy one w/many examples. Usually I tend to shy away from the heavily inspirational ones b/c they can get so effing twee, like a lot of the biopics.
I love pretty much most of the hockey movies for example (that does not include the Mighty Ducks franchise).
On the other hand, I also really like Victory. Member that one?
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Over The Top v. The Buddy Holly Story. It's a fairly easy choice for me.
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How about a sports movie which is also a rock n roll movie? IS THERE SUCH AN ABOMINATION?
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"Bang the Drum Slowly"
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How about a sports movie which is also a rock n roll movie? IS THERE SUCH AN ABOMINATION?
Steven Soderbergh probably has it in development.
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The funny thing is, sports and rock documentaries tend to be pretty damned great. For a good both-at-once scenario, When We Were Kings is pretty untouchable.
I suppose if you wanted to do a two-fer and go the biopic route, you could always make a film about Denny McLain.
(http://info.detnews.com/dn/history/mclain/images/17.jpg)
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Hoop Dreams v. Heavy Metal Parking Lot
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I just hope this doesn't turn into a heated debate over which side gets to lay claim to BODY SLAM (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092684/).
I can't help but feel this is directly addressed to me, because I was absolutely going to bring this up.
How about a sports movie which is also a rock n roll movie? IS THERE SUCH AN ABOMINATION?
Obviously, Martin has not seen Body Slam. Even a cold, emotionless Swede would be moved by Kick's "American Way".
In general, I think there have been more decent sports movies than rock movies (maybe just because there have been more sports movies in general?), but that rock movies have a much higher potential and chance to be great because they don't necessarily have to be locked into the Sports Movie Formula. I'd like to see fewer straight biopics among rock movies and have more attempts at the fictionalized route. Going this way, though, you do run into the added difficulty of having to come up with passable original music, while you have more options to fudge it a little bit when filming sports scenes. On the other side, sports movies really need to break out of their rut in terms of approach and presentation. Is there a sports movie equivalent to Help!, A Hard Day's Night or 24 Hour Party People? I know I would watch a film about the 1985 Bears that was also a spy movie like Help!. In fact, I would write a film about the 1985 Bears that was also a spy movie like Help!.
One area where sports movies have an advantage is in documentaries. The best of them can hook even those without an interest in the sport being covered because the stakes and human element become palpable, while a rock movie will always have to clear a somewhat higher hurdle if the viewer has no interest or active dislike for the music on display.
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Is there a sports movie equivalent to Help!, A Hard Day's Night or 24 Hour Party People?
Is there a rock movie equivalent to The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh?
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On the other side, sports movies really need to break out of their rut in terms of approach and presentation. Is there a sports movie equivalent to Help!, A Hard Day's Night or 24 Hour Party People? I know I would watch a film about the 1985 Bears that was also a spy movie like Help!. In fact, I would write a film about the 1985 Bears that was also a spy movie like Help!.
This is why it was disappointing that Soderbergh's Moneyball was scuttled by the studio before it went into production. It might have taken a different approach for a change. Can someone get Todd Haynes a copy of The Bad Guys Won?
I can't think of a sports movie equivalent to the films you mentioned (Shaolin Soccer?), but Space Jam might be the equivalent of the Bee Gees' Sgt. Pepper's movie.
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Yeah, there were certain elements of the talk around the Moneyball movie that sounded odd, but I agree that it would have at least forced a different take on how you go about making/presenting these kinds of movies. I think my favorite sports movie is still Eight Men Out, and that's probably due in equal parts to the facts behind the story requiring the movie play out differently than your average baseball movie and the way Sayles edged it outside the usual way even period baseball movies come off.
Shaolin Soccer is a great example of telling the same kind of story but presenting it differently. I don't think it was a complete success - I found the first half kind of a slog to get through while waiting for the exploding soccer balls, Kung Fu Hustle greatly improved on that - but it was still a great idea to mix up how you can do it. Is Rollerball (the original) the only other successful sports genre movie mash-up? No offense to any Rollerball '02 or Prayer of the Roller Boys fans.
Is there a rock movie equivalent to The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh?
Well, both The Fish That Saved Pittsburg and Sgt. Pepper featured climactic hot air ballooning scenes. I think Dr. J may be hidden in the Hearts Club Band chorus, too. He, Monte Rock and Bowser from Sha-Na-Na were pretty tight back then.
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For a good both-at-once scenario, When We Were Kings is pretty untouchable.
Makes a great paring with Soul Power.
I'm disappointed no one has mentioned Mark Wahlberg's Rock Star vs. Mark Wahlberg's Invincible. They even have pretty similar stories.
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rock movies have a much higher potential and chance to be great because they don't necessarily have to be locked into the Sports Movie Formula. I'd like to see fewer straight biopics among rock movies and have more attempts at the fictionalized route. Going this way, though, you do run into the added difficulty of having to come up with passable original music, while you have more options to fudge it a little bit when filming sports scenes.
Agree. I think the Sports Movie Formula is generally aimed at the "wholesome family" crowd, so not so good.
I think the following Wholesome Family formula has been applied to every sport:
Ragtag bunch of misfits and castoffs + new coach (usually fallen star and seeking redemption) = transformation of both = culminating in -- beating the rich snobs across town.
For "passable original music" I think Hedwig had great music -- movie not the best.
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Music...Gimme Shelter, Almost Famous
Sports...Hoosiers, The Foot Fist Way
How do those stack up? I enjoyed them a great deal.
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Wildcats Vs. Rock Star
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Light of Day Vs. Air Bud II and III
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As far as loveable losers go, my favorite is the original Bad News Bears.
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Slap Shot vs. Hard Day's Night
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Prey for Rock and Roll vs. the Rocky movies.
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Anvil vs. Tyson?
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As far as loveable losers go, my favorite is the original Bad News Bears.
I was going to bring this up and pit it against Ladies and Gentlemen, the Fabulous Stains.
Maybe it's just because they're from the same era and have a similar shaggy quality, but I think of them as roughly equivalent.
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Hoop Dreams v. Heavy Metal Parking Lot
What about Neil Diamond Parking Lot?