FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sarah on February 26, 2011, 02:22:00 PM
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I'm gonna!
In fact, I just finished rewatching the first episode. This will only be my third time around, and the second was well over ten years ago (the first was when it first aired), so my eyes will be fairly fresh. Or I thought they would be, anyway; it is startling how much I remember.
I have a feeling I won't have much new insight to bring to the show. I loved it so much the first time around--that first episode was like a miracle in 1990--that I will be viewing through a haze of helpless devotion. Nevertheless, I'm up for it if you are (Wes, I know you're with me).
And so to begin . . .
As I watched the opening credits, I was smacked by the memory of how utterly new and unexpected they were when I first saw them. The channel was ABC. The year was 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_in_American_television). The first episode aired on April 8. I wasn't expecting much of anything when I tuned in. And from the first moment, I was lost.
Watching today, only a few things irked me: Dana Ashbrook is immediately awful (James Marshall's shortcoming are quickly evident, too, but it takes a little while longer for them to show up). There is some clunky dialogue (e.g., James, after kissing Donna: "I'm sorry [beat] . . . No, I'm not"; Doc Hayward to Donna, after picking her up at the police station and gently scolding her for sneaking out, "We've also got another problem facing us tonight--where is your sister's bicycle?"). The wacky music that accompanies Audrey's shenanigans as she sabotages the meeting with the Norwegians is annoyingly heavy-handed. Julee Cruise's "live" performance at the Roadhouse is overproduced and silly.
But all that is nit-picking. There is so much else that is odd and good and ominous. I won't bother mentioning the usual suspects but will note that I especially loved the first random shot of the traffic light changing colors and the occasional consciously noir dialogue (Agent Cooper's description of Twin Peaks as "a town where a yellow light means slow down, not speed up" and even his "Harry--you're all right" are examples).
One last comment: I will be watching the show this time around after living in a tiny, close-knit town for fifteen years. This is going to change how I respond to the portrayal of small-town life and the depiction of the relationships among the characters. I know a lot more about how these kinds of places work now. When I think the show gets something wrong, it is going to jar.
So far, so good, though.
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I'm in.
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I recently watched the oft-maligned Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me for the fourth time. Masterpiece.
I have watched the entire run of Twin Peaks three times, and despite some of the shortcomings noted above (e.g., the James character in general), it remains a glorious achievement.
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The character of James is the television equivalent of "being James'd."
If you need me I will be rewatching Parker Lewis Can't Lose.
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My favorite series ever; there are lots of disappointments lurking, but like you said, far more positives than negatives.
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I only caught a few minutes here or there the first time around (and I was too young to fully appreciate what I was seeing, I'm sure.) Once it's on Netflix Instant, I'll give it a go.
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The Scrivener is correct. Fire Walk With Me is a masterpiece. And criminally underappreciated (even though it's slowly getting re-appreciated; I remember being disgusted with how mocked it was upon its original release).
Watching Twin Peaks for the first time in 1990 (at age 14-15, living in a small town) was one of those defining (TV/film) moments for me; a very formative experience. I haven't rewatched all of it in about ten years, but I've watched bits and pieces obsessively back and forth ever since it first aired, first on the VHS cassettes I recorded the show on (yes, even from the first episode; I'd somehow heard about the hype from across the pond before it started airing on Swedish TV), then on the official VHS box set, then on downloaded VHS rips from the internet, and now recently the DVD box set.
I won't participate in a rewatch this time around, but I will read this thread with great interest. Really enjoyed Sarah's first thoughts (that quote about the changing traffic lights has always stuck with me) - looking forward to more.
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This is like some sort-of Agent Cooper dream, but my wife and I have been watching Twin Peaks for the first time the last two weekends. We are halfway through the second season and I love it. I'm in.
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The season finale of Portlandia, which aired last night, featured a sweet Twin Peaks reunion-of-sorts. Kyle MacLachlan turned up again as the mayor of Portland, and Heather Graham guest-starred in another sketch. Alas, they were not on screen together.
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I may watch Fire Walk with Me again right away. I've only seen it once, about ten years ago, and did not like it (I was too distressed by its difference from the series and its lack of humor--one of the things I like most about the show--to be able to give it a proper chance [plus I was high as a kite]). I think it might be a good idea to get to it before I'm fully immersed in the series.
Maybe tomorrow.
P.S. I just finished watching that, Martin. I've enjoyed Kyle McLachlan's mayor (and his captain on How I Met Your Mother [don't judge]). Heather Graham's turn wasn't half as good. But then she's not half the actor he is.
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She might not be half the actor MacLachlan is, but she's twice as hot. (Don't judge.)
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Not much to add other than love.
Kinda wish I didn't sell off all my Wrapped In Plastics back in the e-bay salad days!
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Oh, I agree with you, Martin. Although I did have a bit of a crush on Agent Cooper. And on Lloyd Gallagher (again, don't judge).
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Just finished watching it again. Will be with you in spirit!
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was james the drip with the motorcycle? if so, i agree!
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I watched the Psych homage to Twin Peaks. I feel like I got the gist.
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Give it a try, grumpy. You don't know what you're missing.
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Give it a try, grumpy. You don't know what you're missing.
Well isn't that the rice calling the flour white?
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The Scrivener is correct. Fire Walk With Me is a masterpiece. And criminally underappreciated (even though it's slowly getting re-appreciated; I remember being disgusted with how mocked it was upon its original release).
I remember really liking the movie a lot, and I remember paling on the show once the 2nd season started ... I haven't seen it since. Foof, they're not on Netflix instant either.
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Give it a try, grumpy. You don't know what you're missing.
Well isn't that the rice calling the flour white?
All the more reason for you to listen to me: if I get a kick out of it, so might you.
And, yes, AC: the quality drops enormously in the second season, although there is still much to love. I'll be interested to see how I respond to it this time around. I'm already pissed off having read that the network insisted Laura's killer be revealed sooner than planned because ratings were dropping. Imagine what the show might have been like if it had been allowed to develop as originally intended. (I also grumble to myself occasionally about how much better the whole of Babylon 5 might have been if that show hadn't been rushed to a premature resolution, only to be picked up for another season in the end anyway. So frustrating.)
The whole reason I agreed to suggest this viewing party was that I thought the show was becoming available on NetFlix. (Didn't somebody say this in the last chat?) If it isn't, that throws a wrench in the works.
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The whole reason I agreed to suggest this viewing party was that I thought the show was becoming available on NetFlix. (Didn't somebody say this in the last chat?) If it isn't, that throws a wrench in the works.
It was announced it's coming to Netflix instant along w/ a bunch of other shows but I have no idea when.
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I remember really liking the movie a lot, and I remember paling on the show once the 2nd season started ... I haven't seen it since. Foof, they're not on Netflix instant either.
It is worth wading through some of the muck to get to the last episode, which is one of my favorites.
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I may watch Fire Walk with Me again right away. I've only seen it once, about ten years ago, and did not like it (I was too distressed by its difference from the series and its lack of humor--one of the things I like most about the show--to be able to give it a proper chance [plus I was high as a kite]).
My experience and reaction was exactly the same.
That movie made me sad.
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I'm already pissed off having read that the network insisted Laura's killer be revealed sooner than planned because ratings were dropping. Imagine what the show might have been like if it had been allowed to develop as originally intended.
Lynch and Frost were kind of trapped in a hole of their own devising, though--I remember thinking at the time that, if the show just goes on and on forever without the mystery being solved, Agent Cooper starts looking less like a brilliant kook and more just not-so-competent. I think the show could have survived the solution of that mystery if they'd come up with another compelling one to take its place. But Lynch was off making movies, and even he thought the show was losing its grip when Dale Cooper started wearing flannel shirts.
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I would have been content with one perfect, full season. That's not to much to ask, right?
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Cooper's flannel shirts prefigured the grunge fad by several months. Too bad those bands didn't also go for the slicked-back hair look.
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Well, it took 15 episodes total before the audience learned who Laura's killer was and then two more for that plot thread to be wrapped up, so looked at that way it's a pretty good season that just happened to have a summer break in the middle of it. Again, it's confusing when people talk about Season 1 good/Season 2 bad, because the first season had only eight episodes. The second had 22, of which the first nine are good and the next twelve stink, and then the Lynch-directed finale is beyond good and bad--one of the weirdest things ever shown on network TV.
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I also quit during the second season. There was too much filler and not enough weirdness. Is it bad form to skip right to the finale?
Loved the movie though.
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Yes yes yes! The most yes.
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When I was a kid I watched most of it when it was on TV, and I think it shaped my young mind a lot. I've since then watched it's all of if 4 or 5 times. It's one of my favorite things ever in the world. Even though the middle/end of season two got a little lame it was still better than most things on TV. Also the finale is the greatest moment in television history.
All fans of the show should watch the Psych episode Dual Spires. It has a whole mess of the cast of Twin Peaks in it, and it's incredible.
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Well, it took 15 episodes total before the audience learned who Laura's killer was and then two more for that plot thread to be wrapped up, so looked at that way it's a pretty good season that just happened to have a summer break in the middle of it. Again, it's confusing when people talk about Season 1 good/Season 2 bad, because the first season had only eight episodes. The second had 22, of which the first nine are good and the next twelve stink, and then the Lynch-directed finale is beyond good and bad--one of the weirdest things ever shown on network TV.
I am not convinced of the absoluteness of this good/bad dichotomy. I did get sick of Trouble Child, but thought it was sufficiently creepy as it edged towards the climax. WHERE'S ANNIE?
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The second had 22, of which the first nine are good and the next twelve stink ...
All season 2 episodes are good.
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I'm, thinking I could be in for this. How shall we work this?
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Beats me. I just figured we'd all watch at whatever pace we chose and blab at will. Or do we want to keep to more or less the same schedule, say, an episode a week?
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Just watched episode 2. Here are my notes:
* This time around, I was filled with appreciation for the poison-green type used in the opening credits, which jars nicely with the idyllic shots of the NW on which they are superimposed.
* When Ray Wise appeared, I was reminded that apparently a new generation of TV watchers associates him most with the show Reaper. Those of us who think of him primarily as Leland Palmer show our ages.
* Random statement by Bobby Briggs: "Maybe we could sell light bulbs door to door." I had no idea this was a viable source of income. Ten thousand dollars' worth.
* How much did Twin Peaks pave the way for The X-Files?
* First mention of Albert, reminding me that this show led to my crush on Miguel Ferrer.
* First mention of Jacques Renault, reminding me of the terrible French Canadian accents to come.
* I continue to take pleasure in Agent Cooper's delight in small things.
* The fish in the percolator was a little too consciously zany for my tastes.
* Russ Tamblyn's wardrobe? Another example of too-deliberate zaniness.
* Worst line of the episode: "Laura died two days ago; I lost you years ago."
Anyone else started watching?
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I agree with your observation about the opening credits Sarah. I haven't starting re-watching yet, but it looks like Twin Peaks will start streaming on Netflix in April.
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Perhaps I will hold off boring everyone till then, then.
Or not. It depends on how bored/nuts I am.
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* How much did Twin Peaks pave the way for The X-Files?
I think Agent Cooper and the show's supernatural FBI shenanigans were a big influence. I also think it paved the way for David Chase to experiment as much as he did on The Sopranos, which I believe he's acknowledged.
It's kinda hard for me to be objective about season 1's flaws at this point.
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* Random statement by Bobby Briggs: "Maybe we could sell light bulbs door to door." I had no idea this was a viable source of income. Ten thousand dollars' worth.
I am watching this episode right now. (Note: It's called "Episode 1" in both of the DVD box sets I've purchased over the years, because the pilot is considered a separate entity. This could lead to some confusion if this thread continues.)
When I read Sarah's post earlier today this "light bulb" thing signified nada to me, but while watching Bobby Briggs actually deliver the line, I had a dim memory flicker before me that back in the 80s there might have been some religious Amway-type cult that made a thing for a few years out of selling lightbulbs door-to-door that were supposed to last several times longer than the usual storebought models. It's a very vague memory; probably few here are old enough to corroborate me on this and I can't find anything by Googling it, and I might be wrong. But there it is. This may be the most trivial thing I've ever posted about, but hey, it's Twin Peaks.
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Plus yeah I never found the fish in the percolator quite as funny as those around me, but it does follow directly on one of my favorite Cooper moments: "Body language." Poor Harry.
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* Random statement by Bobby Briggs: "Maybe we could sell light bulbs door to door." I had no idea this was a viable source of income. Ten thousand dollars' worth.
I am watching this episode right now. (Note: It's called "Episode 1" in both of the DVD box sets I've purchased over the years, because the pilot is considered a separate entity. This could lead to some confusion if this thread continues.)
When I read Sarah's post earlier today this "light bulb" thing signified nada to me, but while watching Bobby Briggs actually deliver the line, I had a dim memory flicker before me that back in the 80s there might have been some religious Amway-type cult that made a thing for a few years out of selling lightbulbs door-to-door that were supposed to last several times longer than the usual storebought models. It's a very vague memory; probably few here are old enough to corroborate me on this and I can't find anything by Googling it, and I might be wrong. But there it is. This may be the most trivial thing I've ever posted about, but hey, it's Twin Peaks.
There was a radio guy in North Florida who used to push those bulbs. I seem to recall his name was Chuck Harder maybe that's what Bob Lassiter called him. It was decades ago.
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* Random statement by Bobby Briggs: "Maybe we could sell light bulbs door to door." I had no idea this was a viable source of income. Ten thousand dollars' worth.
I am watching this episode right now. (Note: It's called "Episode 1" in both of the DVD box sets I've purchased over the years, because the pilot is considered a separate entity. This could lead to some confusion if this thread continues.)
When I read Sarah's post earlier today this "light bulb" thing signified nada to me, but while watching Bobby Briggs actually deliver the line, I had a dim memory flicker before me that back in the 80s there might have been some religious Amway-type cult that made a thing for a few years out of selling lightbulbs door-to-door that were supposed to last several times longer than the usual storebought models. It's a very vague memory; probably few here are old enough to corroborate me on this and I can't find anything by Googling it, and I might be wrong. But there it is. This may be the most trivial thing I've ever posted about, but hey, it's Twin Peaks.
There was a radio guy in North Florida who used to push those bulbs. I seem to recall his name was Chuck Harder maybe that's what Bob Lassiter called him. It was decades ago.
This might be the same scam. (http://eclecticsite.com/hundredyearbulb.html) I can kinda equally picture Lynch as being on the giving or receiving end of something like this.
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I can picture Lynch hearing about it and thinking "By criminy, that's a swell idea!"
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Thank heaven that's been cleared up.
I will use the official numbering from here on.
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I hereby formally announce the suspension of my viewing till April, when the show hits Netflix Instant. I won't know when that is, though, so one of you will have to get things rolling when the time comes.
I'll be counting the days . . .
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OK. For now I'll just note another fine, forgotten moment: Major Briggs knocking Bobby's cigarette into his mother's meat loaf.
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* How much did Twin Peaks pave the way for The X-Files?
I think Agent Cooper and the show's supernatural FBI shenanigans were a big influence. I also think it paved the way for David Chase to experiment as much as he did on The Sopranos, which I believe he's acknowledged.
It's kinda hard for me to be objective about season 1's flaws at this point.
Obviously, it owed a lot to where they were shooting and related budgetary needs, but so much of the early X-Files seeming to go down in woodsy, Pacific Northwest-type locations felt, at the time, like a direct debt owed to Twin Peaks. Early Mulder also seems like a character that couldn't have existed if Cooper hadn't set the table, as Chris says, and Scully might as well have been some TV executive's fiendish plot to find the only way to make the Albert character somehow more appealing to their target demo. And Duchovny himself bridges the Twin Peaks to X-Files gap.
I remember reading about the upcoming new TV shows the summer before the X-Files started, looking for something to fill the void left by Twin Peaks, and the X-Files stood out as one of two shows that sounded promising. I can't remember what the other show could have been, though, but even in pitch/preview form, that vibe was there.
Re: a concerted effort at watching/rewatching, I guess we should probably wait until the show hits Instant in April now, to get as many people involved as possible. I was telling Sarah, I'm genuinely excited to go back and watch. This was my favorite thing on TV by far when it came on, but I'm pretty sure I haven't seen some of those mid-to-late season 2 episodes in the almost 20 years since they've aired, so I have no idea how the whole thing will fit together.
I'm also curious to see how it'll play for anyone watching along for the first time. A lot of the steam of just how much of a phenom this thing was can never be recaptured, but there's at least one episode ("Missoula, MONTANA!") that I think will still have the same impact.
Also, I'm going to predict ahead of time that Major Briggs will be the character who most rises in my estimation from watching this in the early '90s to now. There's another guy who helped bridge Twin Peaks and Season 1 of the X-Files, by the way. I think he played almost the same character in an episode about the evil power of the Face On Mars.
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I always loved said major's wonderfully ornate way of speaking and quiet heroism. I look forward to seeing more of him; he was always a favorite character. I have felt a residual fondness for the actor who plays him ever since meeting him. Yea, even unto Stargate: SG1.
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I watched the entire series on VHS in 2003, after having only seen a couple of episodes from the David Lynch seasons when it was on ABC. The post-Lynch middle is a truly terrible slog -- it was like Dark Shadows or something, sub-daytime-soap-level writing and contrived plot turns that managed to be both preposterous and boring -- but it was all worth it for the brilliant and entertaining Lynch-directed finale, in which he [SPOILER ALERT] just cruised around fucking everything up. The two-and-a-minute shuffle of an old dude across the lobby of a huge bank followed up by the explosion-death of [REDACTED] is still one of my all-time favorite televisual moments.
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I don't know if anyone else here has read Mark Frost's original script for the last episode, but his and the writers' original conception of the Black Lodge was utterly ridiculous and it's no mystery why Lynch threw much of it out.
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I always loved said major's wonderfully ornate way of speaking and quiet heroism. I look forward to seeing more of him; he was always a favorite character. I have felt a residual fondness for the actor who plays him ever since meeting him. Yea, even unto Stargate: SG1.
Name dropper.
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Stargate is one of those franchises whose fandom has just completely disbanded, I think.
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I really want to rewatch this but I'm right in the middle of rewatching Larry Sanders. I notice I've been touching my face a lot more recently.
ps- Anyone notice the errors in Season 3 on Netflix Instant?
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pps- Trivia: Linda Doucett (Darlene) lived with Garry Shandling from 1987-94. When they broke up, she filed charges against him for sex discrimination and sexual harrassment.
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I really want to rewatch this but I'm right in the middle of rewatching Larry Sanders.
You don't have one more hour to spare a week? Boy, do I pity you.
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I really want to rewatch this but I'm right in the middle of rewatching Larry Sanders.
You don't have one more hour to spare a week? Boy, do I pity you.
Geez, you sound like my mom talking to me about church. Sarah, I like to watch shows episode after episode. I don't think Twin Peaks serves as a good companion piece to Larry Sanders. If you can't understand that: "Boy, do I pity you."
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Hey, I was expressing sincere sympathy, Mr. Defensivo. Sheesh.
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Just listen to your Sarah, Paul.
Trust me on this.
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Hey, I was expressing sincere sympathy, Mr. Defensivo. Sheesh.
Comment retracted. Sorry Sarah, I thought you were criticizing my tunnel-visioned ways. It can be better summed up as 'I can only handle one great show at a time.'
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Hey, the Twin Peaks party isn't getting started till April sometime. If you're watching Larry Sanders back to back, who knows? maybe you'll have finished up by the time things get rolling.
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ps- Anyone notice the errors in Season 3 on Netflix Instant?
There's at least 2 episodes that are doubled, and they're not arranged in the original order.
That, and 85% of the time (at least on my end) it's too slow/interrupty to watch without going crazy.
I didn't want to agree when it was first said, but Netflix Instant = garbage.
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ps- Anyone notice the errors in Season 3 on Netflix Instant?
There's at least 2 episodes that are doubled, and they're not arranged in the original order.
That, and 85% of the time (at least on my end) it's too slow/interrupty to watch without going crazy.
I didn't want to agree when it was first said, but Netflix Instant = garbage.
I will grant you that Netflix is not great about making sure episodes are named properly and in the correct order. I have heard that if you call up and let them know, they're decent about fixing it.
But the slow/interrupty stuff is on your end; your bandwidth must suck.
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What really annoys me is when Netflix has two versions of the same film up with no real differences at first glance. Though, this will occasionally get fixed too.
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I didn't want to agree when it was first said, but Netflix Instant = garbage.
I don't know about that. It falls short every once and a while but it still mostly cool.
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Controversy! I'd like it more if it worked better.
Although, this screen is pretty fun!
(http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/netflix-loading-buffering-screen-thumb.jpg)
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We get a lot more obnoxious buffering through Apple TV than we ever do when streaming Netflix through the Wii. In fact, the latter has only happened twice in a little under a year.
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I connect my roku by wire to my router. My connection sucks and it still works great. No buffering stops.
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Just watched Fire Walk With Me from Netflix. That is one dark, creepy movie. If it ties up stuff about the series... I didn't need to know those things... did you?
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I did not. I will be curious to see whether I feel the same way when I watch it again.
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Just watched Fire Walk With Me from Netflix. That is one dark, creepy movie. If it ties up stuff about the series... I didn't need to know those things... did you?
I always found it to be horribly disappointing because I found all the bits with the weird david lynch version of the FBI at the beginning were way more interesting and deserved their own movie.
i want to know why david bowie materialized out of thin air.
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I think it's always better when some knots are left untied.
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http://inthetreesartpreview.blogspot.com/2011/03/photography-by-richard-beymer.html (http://inthetreesartpreview.blogspot.com/2011/03/photography-by-richard-beymer.html)
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http://inthetreesartpreview.blogspot.com/2011/03/photography-by-richard-beymer.html (http://inthetreesartpreview.blogspot.com/2011/03/photography-by-richard-beymer.html)
I immediately ordered two of these.
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Hey, these are sort of great!
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One of my favorite Peaks-related "Hey it's that guy" moments is seeing The Searchers for the first time and recognizing the elderly waiter from the Great Northern as Mose.
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The great, GREAT Hank Worden. He was a character actor in a lot of Ford and Hawks westerns. AND--according to IMDB--had an uncredited role in Smokey and the Bandit. Do you like apples?
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http://inthetreesartpreview.blogspot.com/2011/03/photography-by-richard-beymer.html (http://inthetreesartpreview.blogspot.com/2011/03/photography-by-richard-beymer.html)
I immediately ordered two of these.
Which ones? I got TP 17, which I believe is ESSENTIAL.
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I would have gotten that one, along with tp 22 and tp 39, were I feeling spendthrift. Maybe tps 10 and/or 11 for good measure.
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Just ordered TP 27
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I considered TP 10, but I don't really collect photographs. I've always liked Lynch's artwork, though, and ordered a digital print of this, suitable for framing:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WaVMpx0UYHs/TVTHmwpNprI/AAAAAAAAACM/WAUv56701ek/s1600/TWINPEAKSMAP.jpg)
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FYI, I received word that TP 10 and TP 11 are close to sold out. I decided to grab 10 as a gift for my sister, a Twin Peaks/small things seated next to large things enthusiast.
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I am really annoyed that in order to watch the pilot again (I haven't seen it in at least 15 years) I have to buy the gold box set. I have seasons 1 & 2 on DVD, but I bought them separately, so they don't include the pilot.
I might have the pilot on VHS somewhere, but that would require digging out boxes from storage. Maybe I should just sell my two existing DVD sets and buy the gold box.
You can't buy the pilot separately, can you?
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I am really annoyed that in order to watch the pilot again (I haven't seen it in at least 15 years) I have to buy the gold box set. I have seasons 1 & 2 on DVD, but I bought them separately, so they don't include the pilot.
I might have the pilot on VHS somewhere, but that would require digging out boxes from storage. Maybe I should just sell my two existing DVD sets and buy the gold box.
You can't buy the pilot separately, can you?
My friend has the pilot on DVD; it's probably an import and it's quality is lacking.
I think the Gold box may be the way to go. You get the US televised pilot and the international pilot.
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When are we supposed to start watching?
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When it becomes available on NetFlix Instant, I believe. Someone who knows about such stuff will have to fire the starting pistol.
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I was amazon right now debating my box set purchase when I saw Lynch's quote on the back of the box:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51iXzZyUNuL.jpg)
I imagine Lynch curiously looking at the box thinking about what it might be.
It sealed the deal!
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http://inthetreesartpreview.blogspot.com/2011/03/photography-by-richard-beymer.html (http://inthetreesartpreview.blogspot.com/2011/03/photography-by-richard-beymer.html)
I immediately ordered two of these.
Which ones? I got TP 17, which I believe is ESSENTIAL.
TP 17 is very good, and would probably have been next if I'd gotten more.
I got TP 22 and TP 35 - never seen 35 before, I find it playful and fresh compared to some of the others. Leftfield, sort of. And 22 is of course hypnotic. But I could've gone with a handful more.
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... and TP 35 - never seen 35 before, I find it playful and fresh compared to some of the others. Leftfield, sort of.
Good choice. I like that one for the same reasons.
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I haven't properly read through the whole thread yet but I'm in. I have recently been re-watching this. When I was in 10th grade the inside of my locker door at school was covered in Twin Peaks pictures cut from magazines. I read The Secret Diaries of Laura Palmer (written By Lynch's daughter) and the Agent Cooper book and listened to the Diane tapes. It's a great thing when something you are nostalgic about is actually really good.
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It is now streaming on Netflix.
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Let the games commence!
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LOVE Twin Peaks. The song Donna, Maddie and James record could be the most cringeworthy scene in tv history. Love it.
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LOVE Twin Peaks. The song Donna, Maddie and James record could be the most cringeworthy scene in tv history. Love it.
I felt like I got James'd after watching that scene.
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Anyone watching the pilot this weekend? How many first-time viewers do we have?
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I just finished watching the Pilot. I remember watching some episodes when they came out. I watched them on a black and white TV, so this looks very different to me. I recall the music more than the story line. I love the dialog, and Agent Cooper's fascination with nature. I mostly know Kyle MacLachlin from his role on Desperate Housewives; it's strange to see him so young here.
Are we waiting for everyone to watch the pilot before we head to the next episode?
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Are we waiting for everyone to watch the pilot before we head to the next episode?
Yeah, maybe give it a week or so and then start on the next couple of episodes. I've had the pilot memorized for years, so I'll just wait over here.
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I, too, was thinking it would be a weekly thing.
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My thoughts on Season 1, Ep. 1 - Pilot
- I missed Twin Peaks when it originally aired. For years, I confused it with Northern Exposure, which I must not have cared for back then. Anyhow, I only recently finished Twin Peaks for the first time, so the whole thing is fresh in my mind. I will do my best to avoid spoilers for any first timers.
- I noticed that most of the teenagers are dressed as if it's the 1950's. I think that actually makes the show less dated. Can you imagine if everyone was wearing neon Hammer pants?
- The scene with the flickering light in the morgue is a perfect example why this show is so great. Funny and eerie at the same time.
- Big Ed's hair is a mystery to me. Is that his real doo or a toupee?
- The roadhouse brawl with the ethereal music is another great moment. I think that is the first real sign that this is a different kind of show.
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My thoughts on Season 1, Ep. 1 - Pilot
- The scene with the flickering light in the morgue is a perfect example why this show is so great. Funny and eerie at the same time.
I think at least part of this scene was unscripted, and the flickering lights may have been coincidental as well.
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Yes, to the observation about the clothing. It's not entirely from the fifties, either, which would be distracting for different reasons.
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I'm on board!
I didn' t catch it on ABC, but watched the whole series circa '98. I've seen Fire Walk with Me a couple of times, and think it's pretty great if only for the scene when Leland and Laura are at the stop light and the one-armed man is trying to warn(?) Laura by circling around them, and Leland is just GUNNING the engine. So, so stressful.
I watched the pilot last night, which was pretty great. A line that really cracked me up, was apparently a mistake in dialogue. I had thought it was scripted Lynchian humor:
From Wikipedia:
During the filming of the scene in which Cooper first examines Laura's body, a malfunctioning fluorescent lamp above the table flickered constantly, but Lynch decided not to replace it, since he liked the disconcerting effect that it created. Also, during the take, one of the minor actors misheard a line and, thinking he was being asked his name, told Cooper his real name instead of saying his line, briefly throwing everyone off balance. Lynch was reportedly pleased with the lifelike, unscripted moment in dialogue, and kept the mistake in the final cut:[3]
ATTENDANT: I have to apologize again for the fluorescent lights. I think it's a bad transformer.
COOPER (Kyle MacLachlan): That's quite all right.
TRUMAN (Michael Ontkean): Agent Cooper, we did scrape those nails when we brought her in.
COOPER: Here it is. There it is. Oh my God, here it is!
COOPER (to attendant): Would you leave us, please?
ATTENDANT: Jim.
COOPER: Uh... would you leave us alone, please?
ATTENDANT: Oh. Certainly.
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Also, I'm not sure if it was in a documentary, or rather just some theory a friend of mine had: All of the fans, lamps, wires and whatnot are supposed to indicate that Bob can travel via electrical pathways.
anyone heard this?
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I've never heard the electricity theory before, and I doubt there's anything intentional to it but I say we keep an eye out for it as we go along. Another thing I'm curious about paying attention for this time around is how much time is passing for each episode.
This was my first rewatch of the pilot in years. I watched the show during its initial run and some episodes here and there afterwards when it was briefly on cable in syndication. I'm glad to see how great it still looks considering it was done for TV 20 years ago. The colors especially stand out, with the reds popping out a lot more than I remember or noticed back then.
I'll also try to be vague about spoilers as we go along because we have some first time people, and I'm very curious to get their episode-by-episode take about where they think things may be going. Trying to figure this thing out back then was a major obsession, because I hadn't really seen anything like this on TV at that time, since this particular kind of serialization and "mystery arcs" wouldn't come into vogue until after Twin Peaks' brief, insanely unlikely run as a massive pop culture phenom.
A few things, plot wise: the pilot feels like it sets up a solid three or four suspects over its run. It's interesting and perhaps telling how the first half is frontloaded with the investigation, Cooper as an FBI man and clues/suggestions of backstory that could tie to the case, while the back end slides more into the stories of the town and Cooper becoming an observer. I also kind of forgot how some of the characters appeared to be set up as potentially more important in the pilot before almost being dropped entirely. I remember thinking one of them in particular was going to play a big part in the eventual reveals, but as far as I remember, he/she has an almost non-existent presence as things continue.
Cooper: Great first scene, and you get a pretty full sense of his character right here. I think his "That guy's a psychiatrist?" line to Truman as they walk away from Dr. Jacoby might be the underrated highlight for Cooper in the pilot. I really don't think anybody but Kyle McLaughlin could have pulled off Cooper.
James: what a tool. Everything about this guy, from his "Nice day for a PiiiiicNIC!" entrance, to his "Yo!" response in class roll call, to his dorky biker friends is funny. I absolutely buy Bobby and Mike being able to handle their own brawling with the entire Roadhouse. Man, I did not remember Big Ed getting laid out like such a sap, though.
Bobby: Favorite non-Cooper character of the pilot. I love that weird thing he does when he snaps his fingers angrily at the cops during his initial interrogation at school. What the hell is that? I think my greatest regret of the show is that we never get to see him in his role as star high school quarterback, because I have to assume he'd play with a leather jacket over his uniform.
Josie: Never liked her character, and it starts early here (did not remember that she's the first character we see).
Favorite music in the pilot: the music we get when Bobby and Mike arrive at school, which seems like it's Bobby's Theme here but I think starts to show up more for all the high school aged morally sketchy characters. Worst music in the pilot: the Circus Music that accompanies Audrey's actions throughout. Does that stick around? It may explain why I was more torn over Audrey and Shelley The Waitress in the early going.
I did not remember the Cooper/Attendant exchange KTB notes above, and it's pretty amazing. Ontkean deserves credit for not breaking at all there. You only get to see the back of McLaughlin's head, and that half a head tilt he does after the guy say "...Jim!" is even funnier knowing none of that was scripted. Also, I did not remember the kid popping and locking down the hallway during the first scene at the school.
Finally, I totally want Harry's jacket.
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I'm usually on top of new stuff (that I've been waiting to watch) popping up on Netflix Instant, but I completely missed that this was available to stream. We're finishing up Freaks & Geeks, then it's on to this.
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The electricity thing seems to be more pronounced in FWWM, and recalling some of the shots in that movie the theory makes sense. In fact, one of the weirdos in the Black Lodge is called “the Electrician” in the credits (I wonder if there’s a “Cable Guy” hanging out there too).
Dana Ashbrook, especially early on, is kind of like a missing link between Crispin Glover and Richard Greico in this thing.
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OK, I snuck a peak at the pilot again, and one character they could have done more with is Donna's sister. Although maybe I'm just thinking that because she reminds me of how 30 Rock depicts the young Liz Lemon in flashbacks.
That malfunctioning flourescent light in the morgue scene is a perfect illustration of how Lynch seizes on these little chance moments as an integral part of his creative process, and how they plant the seed for other ideas and visual motifs. Another completely accidental moment during filming of the pilot led to one of the most significant developments of the series, which we can talk about more later.
I think I've alluded before to the fact that this show made a big impact on me. I watched it when I was 11 and it was important not only in shaping what I hoped for from television and film, but also how I viewed the small, rural town I grew up in. It was my first pop culture obsession while it was airing and for a while afterward.
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Also, I'm not sure if it was in a documentary, or rather just some theory a friend of mine had: All of the fans, lamps, wires and whatnot are supposed to indicate that Bob can travel via electrical pathways.
anyone heard this?
I haven't, but there is definitely something sinister about the ceiling fan at the top of the Palmer's stairwell. I probably always felt on some level of consciousness that there was something about Bob and wind--consider the celebrated repeating image of a traffic light swaying in the wind. But then again, that could be as much about electricity as wind.
If you know Lynch's paintings, he does have a thing about portraying the movement of air as a thick, palpable, sinister thing.
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Just watched episode 2. Here are my notes:
* This time around, I was filled with appreciation for the poison-green type used in the opening credits, which jars nicely with the idyllic shots of the NW on which they are superimposed.
Thank you for pointing this out. It seems like they couldn't have picked a more unnatural shade of green then the one they used. It's almost on the cusp of neon.
(http://www.spielster.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/twin.jpg)
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Technically, it's not so much the shade as the saturation, so biliously acidic against the lovely muted greys of the background.
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I'm really enjoying all the comments so far. I hope some more folks get on board, especially those who have never seen the show. It's never too late!
I don't have much to say about Episode 2 that hasn't already been said earlier in this thread. I will add that Rob Lowe's character, Chris, on Parks & Recreation seems to be based in large part on Agent Cooper. There are obvious similarities (i.e., the positive, enthusiastic government official from the city sent to work in a small town). There are more though. For example, there is an episode of Parks & Recreation where Anne Perkins (!) is learning how to order from a restaurant like Chris. The way Agent Cooper ordered his breakfast in this episode is exactly how Chris would order it--lots of detail. Also, Agent Cooper hanging upside down in his hotel room seems like something Chris would do for fitness. Finally, I can imagine that Chris is probably also interested in Tibet.
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I'm a first-timer.
Only comment so far: Yellow.
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Agent Cooper rocks that calm, sincere constant self-detailing dialog again and again. He is so self-referential. He is constantly pointing his finger at himself, to say, see me, I am different, I see every detail, I really appreciate the coffee, the doughnuts, and I don't just shove them down my throat, as we witness Deputy Andy does as he gulps down his doughnut!
(I thought he'd choke on it! The cliched cops and doughnut obsession is done with great humor also with the table laid out with so many piles of doughnuts. The day after 9/11 I bribed my way through a police blockade by offering the officer some of my homemade doughnuts, no I'm not kidding.)
This talking into the tape recorder is a device that is a constant reminder that Agent Dale Cooper has to justify his own shadow, as a city guy in the woods, in a town where he already stands out dressed in his fine suit, and his every move is watched, by the townspeople, the FBI, and us, the viewers.
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"Diane, I am holding in my hands a small box of chocolate bunnies."
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All right, I'm on board. Watched the pilot tonight. I haven't watched it since it originally aired and I'm not surprised how much of it I actually remember. It's holding up well.
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I don't know where the rest of you stand, but next up for me is episode 3. I'll probably watch it over the weekend. Should I hold off saying anything about it till, say, Wednesday, to give everyone a chance to catch up?
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I don't know where the rest of you stand, but next up for me is episode 3. I'll probably watch it over the weekend. Should I hold off saying anything about it till, say, Wednesday, to give everyone a chance to catch up?
Slow down, Sarah. I'm watching #2 this weekend.
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Yes, sir!
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I'm queuing up up the first ep right now - I hope to catch up to youse soon...
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Yes, sir!
I watched the second episode today. Chatter away.
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I already talked about that episode. But now I will definitely watch ep. 3 over the weekend.
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I already talked about that episode. But now I will definitely watch ep. 3 over the weekend.
As will I.
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Dana Ashbrook, especially early on, is kind of like a missing link between Crispin Glover and Richard Greico in this thing.
Hah!
Just watched the pilot last night. I haven't seen this since it was on the air. Also, I was a massive stoner at the time so I think I only ever saw this totally high.
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Yes, it's ok to watch episode 3! It is so hard to resist watching multiple tv episodes in a row on netfix when they are just sitting there waiting for you to click on them!
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Plus I love marathon viewing the best. If you let yourself fall into a show, you end up enjoying it a whole lot more, I find.
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True, plus the bonus of no commercial breaks makes it so much better than regular TV. Netflix is that much better than Hulu.
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True, plus the bonus of no commercial breaks makes it so much better than regular TV. Netflix is that much better than Hulu.
Netflix is that much better than just about everything. Or maybe it's just me?
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In episode one,, I was shocked. That was the cleanest bunch of bikers I've ever seen outside of a courthouse.
Which explains the minimal amount of damage done to the High School boys.
I don't recall there being any bruises on them.
Are their hands made out of soap?
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OK Fredericks, calm down.
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I just finished episode two. I love Bobby's dad's rambling style of discourse. Also, he's featured in my single favorite image from the show's entire run.
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The end of episode 2 is still one of the best things ever done in television or the movies.
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The end of episode 2 is still one of the best things ever done in television or the movies.
I like how you can't tell if Dr Jacoby is laughing or crying. I can only hope that was intended.
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Fredericks, that was intentional. Lynch talked in an interview about how the Roadhouse was this special kind of place where Big Ed and Norma could just openly carry on their affair, and where the bikers were bohemians who listened to this dreamy, ethereal music.
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Yeah, fonpr, if you're looking to Twin Peaks for realism, you're barking up the wrong tree. Get it! Barking! Trees!
I just finished episode 4. Also, I'm enjoying the Log Lady intros included on the gold set dvds. I didn't see those when TP re-aired in syndication.
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Yeah, fonpr, if you're looking to Twin Peaks for realism, you're barking up the wrong tree. Get it! Barking! Trees!
Dogwood?
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The end of episode 2 is still one of the best things ever done in television or the movies.
I like how you can't tell if Dr Jacoby is laughing or crying. I can only hope that was intended.
I'm guessing Mike meant episode 2 in the dvd order, which would actually be the 3rd episode since they didn't number the pilot.
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(http://www.nachtkabarett.com/ihvh/img/manson_twin_peaks_shirt.jpg)
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God, that's enough to slam on the brakes on this whole project.
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The end of episode 2 is still one of the best things ever done in television or the movies.
I like how you can't tell if Dr Jacoby is laughing or crying. I can only hope that was intended.
I'm guessing Mike meant episode 2 in the dvd order, which would actually be the 3rd episode since they didn't number the pilot.
That is correct, Chris L. I'm finally watching the gold box dvd set that's been sitting untouched on my shelves for far too long. Thanks for motivating me, folks.
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Hey guys, I'm joining you on this project and just watched the pilot! This my first viewing of Twin Peaks. I was reading this thread but had to skip some comments because they felt kind of spoiler-ish. What's the policy in this thread regarding that? Am I going to have to cover my eyes for some comments?
I think what struck me most about the pilot is how not weird it was. After hearing bits and pieces and all the cultural osmosis I've picked up over the years, I've started to expected David Lynch at his craziest. But this was relatively muted and non-weird. I mean there were cool weird moments like the prep school bikers and their atmospheric music, which was pretty god damned awesome.
The music in general really hit the spot, right? Particularly all the segments with Mrs. Palmer being so over the top and the music was right there going over the cliff with her. Amazing.
How involved was Lynch on this? I read on this thread he wasn't involved in the second season and that's regarded as inferior. Was he there for the entire first season?
Lara Flynn Boyle was pretty good as Donna, I thought. She was a good looking woman pre-anorexia, too.
Overall I really enjoyed the pilot and am looking forward to watching the series and discussing it here.
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Hey guys, I'm joining you on this project and just watched the pilot! This my first viewing of Twin Peaks. I was reading this thread but had to skip some comments because they felt kind of spoiler-ish. What's the policy in this thread regarding that? Am I going to have to cover my eyes for some comments?
I think what struck me most about the pilot is how not weird it was. After hearing bits and pieces and all the cultural osmosis I've picked up over the years, I've started to expected David Lynch at his craziest. But this was relatively muted and non-weird. I mean there were cool weird moments like the prep school bikers and their atmospheric music, which was pretty god damned awesome.
The music in general really hit the spot, right? Particularly all the segments with Mrs. Palmer being so over the top and the music was right there going over the cliff with her. Amazing.
How involved was Lynch on this? I read on this thread he wasn't involved in the second season and that's regarded as inferior. Was he there for the entire first season?
Lara Flynn Boyle was pretty good as Donna, I thought. She was a good looking woman pre-anorexia, too.
Overall I really enjoyed the pilot and am looking forward to watching the series and discussing it here.
No, the pilot isn't that bizarre (it wouldn't have sucked in so many viewers if that were the case), but you'll find there are moments ahead you won't believe aired on network tv 20 years ago.
Lynch was involved on-and-off with the second season. I think he ended up directing 7 episodes through the entire run, and those are the ones that embody the true essence of the show, in my opinion. Many of the other directors seemed to look at it as an opportunity to experiment w/ an artier style, and they mostly just make Lynch look more brilliant in comparison.
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BTW, in case anyone needs a reminder of how big this show got:
(http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1990/1101901001_400.jpg)
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Guides to who directed which episode are not hard to find on the Internets; this one is nice because it digests the major credits (writer/director) along with very succinct plot summaries: http://www.lynchnet.com/tp/episodes.html (http://www.lynchnet.com/tp/episodes.html)
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So is Twin Peaks the thing that started the "the butler did it" convention or is it just another thing that follows that paradigm?
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Oh, whoops.... spoiler alert.
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you'll find there are moments ahead you won't believe aired on network tv 20 years ago.
So true.
Plus, is James weird or what? Seriously of all the characters that is the one that's the most mysterious to me. I think it is just the stiff performance from the actor. In any show but Twin Peaks he'd be godawful.
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Frankly, I don't think James is weird enough. His stiffness as an actor is effective as a parody of an inarticulate young man, but that's pretty much where it ends for me. Of all the characters, I find myself wishing his scenes would hurry up the most. Which brings me to my question: Who are your favorite characters? Ten episodes (plus the pilot) in, here are mine:
Audrey Horn
Jerry Horn
Albert
I left out Agent Cooper because that's just too obvious and because he's basically the central engine of the whole thing.
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James' character really reminds me of the guy who plays the dreamy beat poet in "Peggy Sue Got Married", more his acting than his dreaminess.
I think we should also vote on the creepiest character! Leo Johnson is so scary and mean!
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Audrey Horn
Jerry Horn
Albert
Huh? Not...Bob?
Who kidnapped Mike and put an imposter in his place?
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Audrey Horn
Jerry Horn
Albert
Huh? Not...Bob?
Who kidnapped Mike and put an imposter in his place?
I think Mike's trying to avoid being too obvious. But that's strictly conjecture on my part.
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Frankly, I don't think James is weird enough. His stiffness as an actor is effective as a parody of an inarticulate young man, but that's pretty much where it ends for me. Of all the characters, I find myself wishing his scenes would hurry up the most. Which brings me to my question: Who are your favorite characters? Ten episodes (plus the pilot) in, here are mine:
Audrey Horn
Jerry Horn
Albert
I left out Agent Cooper because that's just too obvious and because he's basically the central engine of the whole thing.
Albert, Gordon Cole, and Andy. Pete, if he had more to do. Maddy!
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Non-Cooper favorites: Audrey, Leland, Ben, Audrey, Albert (for a while), and Shelly... just kidding, last one is Audrey. Competition for least favorite will be pretty heated.
Bob is the most unnerving fictional character I've ever seen in a movie or film. The story behind his creation is priceless:
Lynch on Bob (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Yb6ghCmzA#)
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From the Separated at Birth file
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EYWxJnRXx-A/TNV6yUcUDSI/AAAAAAAAAJM/-purqPfiZl4/s1600/disguise.JPG)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSP7LmfqlE31Er7CS_DW4_XHKRuQr-x6kdBeDERLkdqdnwwvOLHWQ)
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Can't you just picture David Lynch sitting in Massa's Tavern telling that story to Mike?
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Favorite characters: Audrey, Gordon Cole, Dr. Jacoby, Andy, Lucy, Major Briggs, and The Man from Another Place. I actually like Benjamin Horne more than I do brother Jerry.
Guiltiest secret as a Twin Peaks fan: I don't actually like Pete much. I know, the fans love him, Lynch loves him. Jack Nance was beyond perfect in Eraserhead but after that he sorta gives me the willies, not in a good way. Interesting life, though, in the Mike sense, i. e. filled with sleaze and dysfunction. Lynch produced a documentary about him, You Don't Know Jack, that has definite Mike-pick potential.
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Bob is the most unnerving fictional character I've ever seen in a movie or film. The story behind his creation is priceless:
Never heard that story - amazing. And I agree with your assessment of Bob.
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Favorite non-Cooper characters thus far: Leland, Shelly (swoon!) & Major Briggs
The worst: Josie Packard - she apparently is trying to act using only head movements
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Here's something I've been wondering when watching this:
This show is obvious hilarious with its own twisted version of a detective show and soap opera. And I know that humor has to be intended. But I can't picture David Lynch sitting there laughing about it. All I imagine is him being super serious about his art. So I guess my question is, are his intentions to make a satire, a parody, or just a weird melange of Americana and pop fiction thrown together into a nightmare vision of small town life, or all three?
Okay, to put it more succinctly, does David Lynch laugh at his own stuff or is he too into his art?
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No, Lynch has a deep sense of humor about himself and considers a lot of his own work to be comedic, even stuff that most people would not see as funny at all. I think he viewed Twin Peaks as an occasion to express his humor alongside the other aspects of his character that come to people's minds as "Lynchian."
There are a lot of things in Eraserhead and Blue Velvet that are clearly intended as comedy, even if most people would see them as funny-odd rather than funny-haha. One of the scripts he wrote around the time of Blue Velvet, still unfilmed and fans still keep asking him about it, was a flat-out absurdist comedy titled One Saliva Bubble, which I believe had Steve Martin attached to it at one time. Then there's the TV comedy show he and Mark Frost did directly after Twin Peaks: On the Air, about the early days of live TV. Six episodes were filmed, but it bombed so quickly that I'm not sure all six were even broadcast, but you can find them. My opinion? Hi-fuckin'-larious.
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Well that's what I figured but I wanted to hear some other opinions.
Tons of people seem to miss the humor and intended humor and I think that's why David Lynch gets a reputation as pretentiousness personified.
I love the connection between the Horne brothers and their voracious appetites both literally (for food and that good sounding Brie sandwich) and for other vices. Food is such a central aspect to this show. Seemingly all major conversations happen over food or at the very least, donuts.
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I really like Cooper's "every day, give yourself a present" speech in season 1, even though it's not advice I'd give to everyone.
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Well, it really has more impact coming from an FBI agent than it would from you or me.
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I was thinking more of people who indulge themselves plenty as is.
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"The owls are not what they seem." Anyone have any ideas on this one?
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Agent Cooper's little nose squeeze = priceless.
Twin Peaks: Albert's arrival (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtFdRcQwa8#)
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Agent Cooper's little nose squeeze = priceless.
Twin Peaks: Albert's arrival (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKtFdRcQwa8#)
Ha, yes! I just watched this episode for the first time in a few years. I completely forgot about that part and it made me laugh out loud. Also great is the way Agent Cooper excitedly looks over at Sheriff Truman as Albert insults everything and everyone around him.
I've never seen the whole series, so I look forward to going through it with everybody, if not a little faster. So far I've only watched the pilot and the first two episodes, but I'm having a whale of a time. Episode 2 in particular is probably one of the best hours ever aired on television. Everyone (justifiably) raves about the Red Room sequence, but I was shocked to see just how many iconic scenes were packed into that one episode: Agent Cooper's Tibet speech/rock-throwing demonstration, Audrey Horne's dance at the diner, Leland's dance with Laura's picture, etc.
I especially liked the woods scene with Leo, Bobby and Mike; I thought it was great how Leo kept turning his flashlight on Bobby and Mike, and his face would be lit in some new, incredibly creepy way everytime he moved it. I love how Lynch uses flash/spotlights in general. FIRE WALK WITH ME has some great scenes of this ilk, and there's a horrifying, violent scene in Season 2 where a spotlight is used to great effect. (No spoilers!) So simple, yet so effective.
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This show only gets better and better as it goes on. I can't watch slowly anymore. So I'll blurt out my thoughts, cryptically, but give no spoilers.
Cinematic TV meets soap opera with more mystery and violence. Pretty complex show to run without the pre-episode recaps that are standard fair for tv today; I think we viewers have gotten stupider, or are treated stupider, or have been made stupider by excessive recaps and movie trailers that give the movies' plots away. (Must be all that fluoridation poisoning in the water.)
Audrey is amazing!
Denise, oh my, "I still put my panties on one leg at a time!!!" What a great line.
The owl lamp.
The mention of the Blue Book project. Has anyone else read Leslie's Kean's book?
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Finished watching Twin Peaks tonight. This was the first time I've re-watched it since it originally aired. In retrospect, I don't think I watched all of Season 2 the first time around. I think I bowed out after David Duchovny showed up in a dress and, it could be argued, it became a different show (up until the great finale, that is). Post-Leland, the show went for a broader comic feel and maybe that's why it lost some fans (plus, some of the story lines fell a little flat, e.g. James & the femme fatale, Ben Horne's Civil War obsession, Nadine's superhero strength, etc.). All these years later, though, it still stands as one of the best things television has ever done. Thanks for motivating me to crack open that box set that's been sitting around for years. I encourage everyone who hasn't seen it to take the plunge. It's certainly worth your time.
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And I'm not sure what you thought, Mike, but I still think the final episode is among the two or three best episodes of "Twin Peaks". Especially the final minute or so...
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Definitely, Rick. And it's no surprise that David Lynch directed that episode. Actually, all of the episodes Lynch directed stand out as the best for me.
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I, too, just recently finished the series. Overall it was fantastic and I thought the final episode was amazing. However, the back part of season 2 post Leland was just intolerable to me. Those ten or so episodes felt like they lasted for months to me. I could barely get through them, honestly. I've seen people try and defend those episodes but in my mind they are some of the worst TV I've ever seen. Which is quite an accomplishment when you think about it: to be a series that contains both some of the best TV ever made and some of the absolute worst. Very yin and yang. I think Agent Cooper would appreciate the duality of it. Probably Lynch too.
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I also have problems with the post-Leland episodes. I wouldn't say the show turned completely "bad," per se; it's more like it turned into something that, if I hadn't already known that the show was capable of greatness, I wouldn't watch at all. Mike's right that the comedy really overtook the show for about 4-5 episodes, and the underlying sense of menace that had previously made the show so great was missing entirely. Which wouldn't be so bad if the comedy was good enough to make up for it, but I thought all the comedy stories - Little Nicky, Super Nadine, Ben Horne's Civil War obsession - were pretty much clunkers.
It felt like the only dramatic arcs the series was dealing with for a while were James' weird out-of-town affair and the Josie/Thomas Eckhardt stuff, and I had to struggle to care about either one. Jacques Renault was a pretty unremarkable villain. I know some think that the series started to pick up again once Windom Earle entered the scene, but I was never able to go for him, either. Too whimsical and cartoony to really feel like a menace. Really, those disguises? Terrible. (The Log Lady one was pretty good, though.)
Also - and I may lose a lot of people on this - I hate how the show expanded on the mythology behind the Black Lodge. Of course, the scenes that take place in the Black Lodge are the show's definite highlights; I just don't like how they explained exactly what it is, how it can be entered, what's inside it, etc. They completely sapped the thing of all its mystery. And honestly, most of the mythology surrounding the White/Black Lodge is really kind of dumb. It's standard heaven-and-hell/purgatory stuff, which just feels too pedestrian for a series as original as TWIN PEAKS was at it's best.
Generally, I feel that the further the show got from the ultra-realism of the first season, the worse it got. The first season, despite the Red Room sequence in Episode 2 (which was itself a dream sequence), is played completely straight. There were always hints of the unreal (Cooper's rock-throwing intuition display, the visions of Bob, etc.), but they never overpowered the physical world. It was when these concepts that were only hinted at in the first season became concrete in the second that the show started to go downhill, I think.
Really, I don't like that the Black Lodge is a real place that you could visit. I don't like how Bob is an actual spirit that can possess people. These things had much more power as abstractions. Lynch is a master at throwing in the kinds of things that, even though they're never explained fully, you get a kind of understanding of what they are and what they're supposed to mean. And when Lynch left the series, the writers fell over themselves trying to fill in the blanks and explain things that Lynch himself didn't even have an explanation for. And really, the series would've been better off if we never knew any of it.
But none of this takes away from just how incredible TWIN PEAKS was at its pinnacle. The first season is a near-flawless streak of greatness. (I have some problems with the "Laura's funeral" scene, but whatever.) All of the Lynch-directed episodes in Season 2 are terrific. In particular, I think the episode where the identity of Laura's killer is revealed is the series' undeniable high point. (Trying not to say 'peak' too much.) I was blown away by how amazing Ray Wise is in pretty much every scene he's in. Why the series killed him off, I'll never understand. That's another thing: I know ABC pressured Lynch and Frost to reveal Laura's killer, but I don't see why they actually had to CATCH the killer so soon afterwards. I think they could've gotten some more mileage out of that post-reveal shock.
This post is too long, so I'll quickly note that I also watched FIRE WALK WITH ME and thought it was absolutely terrific. Definitely one of Lynch's best, and better than all but the very greatest moments of the series.
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I think I agree with just about every word of that post, except that--admittedly, not having watched them in a long time-- I do remember the post-Leland episodes (always excepting the mighty finale) as just downright bad. Another real low point: the "Miss Twin Peaks" contest plot thread--I mean, yuck. And Windom Earle might have worked; the foreshadowings of his appearance promised something good in the hinted backstory between him and Cooper. But somebody blew it badly when they decided that what jokes are to the Joker, chess would be to Windom Earle. Chess is pretty much the epitome of mathematical reason, a really bad fit for the non-linear, surreal world you kept wanting the series to carry you off to.
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I'm about 6 episodes from the end of my first viewing. I pretty much echo the sentiments about the post-Leland episodes. I will add that the exceptionally poor casting of the James and Josie roles really does not help the already anemic storylines.
I'm still having trouble seeing Michael Ontkean and not immediately thinking "Ned Braden!"
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I'm about 6 episodes from the end of my first viewing. I pretty much echo the sentiments about the post-Leland episodes. I will add that the exceptionally poor casting of the James and Josie roles really does not help the already anemic storylines.
I have two episodes left. Same thoughts here about post-Leland episodes. I thought Josie and that whole story line was a snooze. I really disliked her character.
That second season arc with James was horrible. And I am in the same camp as cavorting with nudists & Matt on Windom Earle. He's a good idea but the character seems horribly realized. "Too whimsical and cartoony" indeed.
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I can't stand Nadine's storyline. *...maybe actual spoiler alert this time?* She takes a bunch of pills and then wakes up with amnesia and superpowers? So... let's send her to high school and everyone will be ok with this?
Also, the storyline with Andy, the doofus cop, Dick, the uptight fancy pants guy, and fake Victoria Jackson...
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One of my favorite Peaks-related "Hey it's that guy" moments is seeing The Searchers for the first time and recognizing the elderly waiter from the Great Northern as Mose.
This happened to me in reverse.
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Wave 2:
http://inthetreesartpreview.blogspot.com/2011/07/richard-beymers-photography-wave-two.html (http://inthetreesartpreview.blogspot.com/2011/07/richard-beymers-photography-wave-two.html)