FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: nick on May 19, 2007, 05:06:26 AM
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In one night, both of The Kid's picks went down. I'm conflicted: I feel for Scharpling, but as a native San Antonian, I'm glad to see the Spurs take one step closer to continuing the dynasty. Sorry, Tom! Good luck next year.
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The Spurs blow and anyone who roots for them is not allowed to listen to my show. Please listen to a radio show that matches the way they play, like Tom Leykis. Something offensively boring.
I know what it's like to like a team because they're local, but the Spurs are exactly what's wrong with the NBA these days - they are such a snooze that I can't bring myself to even remotely care about these 'good guys' anymore. Tim Duncan? Bruce Bowen? Boring. I could go on and on. But the official stance of The Best Show On WFMU is that the Spurs blow.
And Horry is a punk.
Tom.
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Bruce Bowen's a punk too. And Stu Jackson. I'll be back, I gotta go call Sportstalk 980.
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Yes, Bowen is a big time punk. Those hustle guys are so annoying after awhile - out on the floor to provoke the other team's star. Screw that. I love nothing more than when they leave Bowen open for the three and he clanks them time and time again. And going after Steve Nash's private zone? He's just the worst.
Tom.
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The Jazz are in the same mold though. It's fun to watch Kirilenko play D though because he actually is amazing playing D instead of scrappy. Scrappy D=No fun.
But, the Jazz are very similar to the Spurs. Boozer and Deron Williams are a poor man's Duncan/Parker. Both teams have the playoff veteran with Fisher and Horry although you can't really compare those two in likability because that's a blowout. Both have their defensive specialist and each team has a bunch of European role players and a couple foreign semi-stars (Hopefully Okur doesn't call in and complain about being dubbed a semi-star).
Somehow though the Jazz are more intriguing. I'm going with the Pistons. Even Flip Saunders can't stop them. It's destiny!
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Also, with the Jazz, I like to imagine Kirilenko saying to his opponent, "I must break you." Then I laugh.
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Maybe this goes in the Apologist thread...
I'm from and in the Triangle area of North Carolina (along with that drummer from Superchunk), and I'm a UNC grad. College basketball is the religion down here. I have to disagree with Tom's long-ago assessment that pro basketball is superior.
The NCAA Tournament is hands down the best event in sports, year after year - even with its being overhyped by CBS. The regular season games actually MEAN something. Those kids actually give a damn. Watch the small college tourneys on ESPN during championship week - the whole conference knows that the only way to get to the playoffs is to win 3 straight games against teams with the same goal.
Contrast it with the endless drudgery of the NBA season, with teams sometimes getting in with .500 records, and the absurdity of a playoff process that is almost as long and dull as the 82 (!) game regular seasons - do they really need to play a best-of-seven in every round?
Of course the players in the NBA are technically more proficient than college players (although, Jesus, can't these guys learn to shoot free throws?).
There are musicians who are much better players than any of the bands played on the Best Show. (In fact, I believe the whole "Angry Mr. Bungle Fan" calls established this very point). But there's no soul and no excitement. And that's what I see from the NBA.
I got into the Warriors when they started their winning streak (mostly because I wanted to see the Duke-heavy Clippers go down). It was fun to watch them humiliate the Mavs. But who on earth wants to watch another Spurs-Pistons final (or Jazz-Cavs, for that matter)?
Honestly, Bruce Bowen kneeing everybody in the nuts is the most exciting thing left in this season.
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College basketball is all about coaches and tradition rather than focusing on the people actually playing the game. I don't care about Roy Williams career record or how good a recruiter Billy Donovan is. I care about the players that excel at playing the game not the suits who excel at drawing up plays and sweet talking 17 year olds.
But the absolute worst thing about college hoops is that there are maybe 5 teams that have a chance to win every year, and about 3-4 teams per year that got lucky enough to get a player to be up there with the big boys. The regular season only matters for those teams. The rest just have to be good enough to be the top 30-35 teams in the nation so they get the chance to lose sooner or later to the big dogs. I'm a Minnesota alum and I doubt I'll ever see the Gophers win a national title (although Tubby Smith does make it intriguing). 95 percent of college hoops fans will probably never see their team win a title. I know you didn't bring up football, but that's worse. College basketball and football are worse than Major League Baseball in terms of balance.
Pro basketball on the other hand (pro sports in general really) allows every fan to have hope for their team winning a title. The top players coming into the league don't go to the teams that win constantly, they go to the bad teams that need help. Because of this, it's exciting to even go out and see one of the worst teams in the league. Sure, there are egoists, jerks and crybabies but every sport has that, no actually every business where high amounts of money are involved has that.
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Buffcoat -
I knew that a college basketball fan would come in here and try to take the shine of the NBA. You guys can't help it!
I have learned not to attempt any sort of pro versus college argument with anyone from North Carolina. You were raised on that stuff, so it makes sense to you.
I cannot think of anything less interesting to me than college basketball. I like watching the players, not the coaches -that's the same reason that football doesn't do much for me at all.
I can explain why I feel the way I do. I grew up in an area with nothing but pro teams - college sports are ultimately a footnote up here. Once in awhile something non-pro sparks some temporary interest, but it's fleeting, and everybody gets back to following one of the big league teams. There are two baseball teams, two football teams, two basketball teams and four hockey teams up here - not much room for the college kids.
The NCAA tournament is a total snooze for me - I tried for years to get engaged in it, but it just doesn't click for me. I could care less about the upsets from shitty schools. The best of seven lets you see who's actually the best. If the Warriors would've beaten the Mavs in one game, nobody would be making a big deal about it. But watching them dismantle the best team in the NBA was amazing- it's no question who belonged in the Western Conference semis.
I like watching people play who belong in the game, not enthusiastic stiffs who get by on hustle and the ability to make free throws like a robot. I watched plenty of UNC games with Rasheed and Stackhouse - a bunch of them IN North Carolina - and I've gotta say, I prefer watching Wallace do what he does in the pros. He's a player amongst players, not a player amongst future insurance salesmen.
Part of my hatred of college sports is tied to my feeling that the priorities of colleges are screwed up aiming their focus on athletics rather than education, but that's a whole other argument.
And if the most exciting thing you saw this year was Bruce Bowen kneeing Nash in the Private Zone, you were watching the wrong games.
Tom.
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I agree with everything Buffcoat said, and I respect/understand everything Tom said in his lucid rebuffcoat. I've always preferred college ball because my introduction to the sport was the Patrick Ewing-era Georgetown teams, which were beyond belief. Sick, hott stuff, Jack. If my entry point was the NBA, my perspective might be different.
Also, one of the main reasons that 'Sheed and Stack were not as exciting at UNC is because they were coached by a complete dullard named Dean Smith. That idiot once tried to single-handedly ruin college basketball by installing a four-corners offense in an era when there was no shot clock. Lucikily, the Al Maguire-led Marquette team blitzed his ass in the 1977 championship game. Dean Smith was recruiting an NBA factory every year, yet Billy Donovan has as many national titles in the last two years as Dean had* in 36.
*And one of them was because Fred Brown passed the ball to Jimmy Worthy in the 1982 Title Game! You know Eric "Sleepy" Floyd was gonna drain the game-winner!
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...my introduction to the sport was the Patrick Ewing-era Georgetown teams, which were beyond belief.
Me too! One of my earliest memories is going to Hoyas games in '82 w/ my dad.
I've remained a Hoyas fan and they're back in a big way.
I'm still enjoying the NBA playoffs, though. I had been rooting for a Cavs/Suns final; after this last series, I'm now rooting for a Cavs sweep of the Spurs, an ass-kicking so thorough that [edit: Gregg Popovich. I blew it.] starts a brawl with his own players.
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Rebuffcoat, I like that.
With regard to what Tom said:
I can see some of the New York area folks' points (there are almost as many New Yorkers as North Carolinians in the place I grew up). I like pro sports - I've really enjoyed watching the Canes down here (hey - the Stanley Cup belongs to North Carolina for a couple more weeks) and on balance I prefer pro football to college football. I just can't get next to the NBA for the reasons I named above.
Rasheed IS better in the NBA. But I'd still much rather watch college basketball, even with some future insurance salesmen thrown in. Watching the 4th quarter of the New Jersey-Cleveland matchup the other night was just... wrong. No one seemed to care, even that deep into the playoffs.
As for Omar:
Most Carolina fans would jump all over you for your takedown of Dean Smith. I grew up an NC State fan (I was at the Brickyard at State in 1983 after the win the in Pit - the craziest party scene I have ever witnessed), so I always felt torn about Smith, even when I was there. Then I learned to hate Kryzyzewski more and all that questioning went away.
You can argue for or against whether he should have had more championships, but a lot of coaches with a lot of talent never even won one, much less two. Donovan happened to have a ton of great players return in an era when you usually lose your whole team after a championship (witness Carolina post-2005). I don't begrudge them leaving, though - I think Joakim Noah paid a lot of money to stay one more year.
Omar and Dorvid:
As for Georgetown - they got whupped by a bunch of undertalented people who were ACTUALLY HIGH DURING THE GAME. And at the White House afterward. Sweet.
Given Villanova's shooting performance in the second half, I always wondered why MORE teams didn't do rails in the locker room.
How come Philly Boy Roy never talks about Villanova or Temple? Lon Chaney is a fascinating man, to have been both a 1920s horror actor and a great coach. He was terrifying in both roles, although I thought it was much scarier when he threatened to kill John Calipari than when he played "The Ape Man."
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Omar and Dorvid:
As for Georgetown - they got whupped by a bunch of undertalented people who were ACTUALLY HIGH DURING THE GAME. And at the White House afterward. Sweet.
Given Villanova's shooting performance in the second half, I always wondered why MORE teams didn't do rails in the locker room.
Good point on the power of rails, but Gtown played pretty damn well to only lose by 2 points to a team that only missed one shot in the second half. If only Patrick and David Wingate visited The White Lady at halftime ...
How come Philly Boy Roy never talks about Villanova or Temple? Lon Chaney is a fascinating man, to have been both a 1920s horror actor and a great coach. He was terrifying in both roles, although I thought it was much scarier when he threatened to kill John Calipari than when he played "The Ape Man."
Not to mention the fact that Lon Chaney is the current Vice-President!
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...my introduction to the sport was the Patrick Ewing-era Georgetown teams, which were beyond belief.
Me too! One of my earliest memories is going to Hoyas games in '82 w/ my dad.
I've remained a Hoyas fan and they're back in a big way.
Let's hope Roy and Jeff return. I became a Hoyas fan via my dad and grandmother, who began following the team when my uncle attended Gtown. He was friends with Paul Tagliabue, the eventual NFL Commish who remains one of the top rebounders in school history.
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Watching the 4th quarter of the New Jersey-Cleveland matchup the other night was just... wrong.
Anybody can pick bad quarters or bad games to make their case. I could also pick the Nets-Pacers first round series from a few years ago as an example of why a multiple-game series trumps one-offs.
How come Philly Boy Roy never talks about Villanova or Temple?
Because even Philly Boy Roy knows that college basketball sucks.
Tom.
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I recognize the Quixotic nature of continuing to vociferously argue against a guy on a messageboard that is actually named after him. That can't be a good idea. Can one be cyber-GOMPed? Or GOMBed?
Still, I don't think college either the NBA or college basketball "sucks," even for people from parallel-universe Roxborough. I just happen to enjoy one far more than the other. I'll still watch the NBA over most of the stuff on TV.
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The only reason I pay attention to college basketball is to watch players and wonder how high they will go in the NBA draft and dream that Oden will be on the Timberwolves next season. Plus, I watch the tourney but that's more of a selfish "watching my bracket" thing. The only time I get into college ball is when the Gophers are good and those seasons are usually wiped off the record books anyway...
It's not like I'm a homer either. I watch all kinds of pro sports teams. I just can't get into a league that is so unbelievably unbalanced that it's not even fun to go watch a game because you know no matter how good the team is, they will most likely will never win a championship. At least it's not as bad as college football where 90 percent of fans can actually flat out say at the beginning of the year that they have no chance to win a title no matter how good they are. But, it's still pretty bad.
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No, let's hope that Roy makes it far enough down in the draft to end up with the Wizards.
I also have a problem with the Hypocrisy of Big Time College Athletics. Players make the NCAA Billions of dollars, which they see none of, so they end up getting bribes under the table, from shady ne'er-do-wells. Then when they get caught, everybody gets up in arms about it.
And no way Oden makes it to the Timberwolves, for two reasons.
1. Stern is still punishing them for the Joe Smith thing.
2. I'm allready predicting a Frozen Envelope Situation, with New York and Boston going one two.
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...my introduction to the sport was the Patrick Ewing-era Georgetown teams, which were beyond belief.
Me too! One of my earliest memories is going to Hoyas games in '82 w/ my dad.
I've remained a Hoyas fan and they're back in a big way.
Let's hope Roy and Jeff return. I became a Hoyas fan via my dad and grandmother, who began following the team when my uncle attended Gtown. He was friends with Paul Tagliabue, the eventual NFL Commish who remains one of the top rebounders in school history.
Good to see there's more than one person on Friends of Tom who is a current Georgetown fan. Following the Hoyas this season was one of the better times I've had with sports, even if all the wrong teams won in the Final Four.
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I like watching people play who belong in the game, not enthusiastic stiffs who get by on hustle and the ability to make free throws like a robot.
Maybe it's is the 'Cane in me, but this guy is the worst.
(http://www.waynebesen.com/uploaded_images/UF-764144.jpg) (http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/cwnevius/2006/04/04/joakim%20noah.jpg) (http://www.draftexpress.com/headshots/joakimnoah.jpg)
Can't wait to see him and Alonzo Mourning have aggressive celebration contests.
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Honestly, Bruce Bowen kneeing everybody in the nuts is the most exciting thing left in this season.
You're totally ignoring the excitement generated by Manu Ginobli's bald spot.
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...my introduction to the sport was the Patrick Ewing-era Georgetown teams, which were beyond belief.
Me too! One of my earliest memories is going to Hoyas games in '82 w/ my dad.
I've remained a Hoyas fan and they're back in a big way.
Let's hope Roy and Jeff return. I became a Hoyas fan via my dad and grandmother, who began following the team when my uncle attended Gtown. He was friends with Paul Tagliabue, the eventual NFL Commish who remains one of the top rebounders in school history.
Hibbert is returning; Green is leaving.
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Hibbert is returning; Green is leaving.
Works for me. It may even be better than if they both stayed. I guess I'm still a bit sore over the 5(?!!) shots Green took in that Ohio State game.
With two freshman studs coming aboard, GU's still a top-five team.
Let's go Hoyas!
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HOYA SAXA!
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Hibbert is returning; Green is leaving.
Works for me. It may even be better than if they both stayed. I guess I'm still a bit sore over the 5(?!!) shots Green took in that Ohio State game.
With two freshman studs coming aboard, GU's still a top-five team.
Let's go Hoyas!
Yeah, I think the Hoyas will be fine next year. Green's return would have potentially made them #1 preseason, but that is pretty meaningless anyway. Even with Green's subpar play vs. Ohio St., that game really turned when they called a questionable 4th foul on Hibbert when it was 44-44. Ohio St. went on an immediate 7-0 run, which was the eventual margin of victory.
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Hibbert is returning; Green is leaving.
Works for me. It may even be better than if they both stayed. I guess I'm still a bit sore over the 5(?!!) shots Green took in that Ohio State game.
With two freshman studs coming aboard, GU's still a top-five team.
Let's go Hoyas!
Yeah, I think the Hoyas will be fine next year. Green's return would have potentially made them #1 preseason, but that is pretty meaningless anyway. Even with Green's subpar play vs. Ohio St., that game really turned when they called a questionable 4th foul on Hibbert when it was 44-44. Ohio St. went on an immediate 7-0 run, which was the eventual margin of victory.
Dare. To. Dream.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2889584
JS
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I know nothing about Basket Ball, or any sport really, but I have been wondering what those plastic things are the players wear over their noses? Maybe it's just one guy I've seen over and over again, I dunno.
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That's probably Rip Hamilton you've been seeing with the mask. He broke his nose, and had to wear it to play. Then he found that he liked playing with the mask on, and has kept it on since.
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Well that's just stupid, it really sets a precedent. What if he forgets his kit one day and the coach makes him play in his underwear as he decides he likes it?
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How about LeBron James in game 5, huh?
With a few minutes left in regulation, Marv Albert said it had to be considered one of the greatest performances in playoff history.
After Marv said that, James scored his team's final 25 points, most of the time being double and triple-teamed by some of the best defensivemen in the league.
Holy moly, he was amazing.
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I don't think I've ever seen one guy beat an entire team in the playoffs like that with so little help. LeBron was godlike and his teammates were standing around on offense awestruck like the soldiers in Children of Men.
That said, Detroit didn't pressure him nearly enough. Yes, they did some double teaming and there were shots they could do nothing about, but they should've constantly swarmed him all over the court like Chuck and Kenny said and dared one of those other stiffs to make a shot.
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I don't think I've ever seen one guy beat an entire team in the playoffs like that with so little help. LeBron was godlike and his teammates were standing around on offense awestruck like the soldiers in Children of Men.
That said, Detroit didn't pressure him nearly enough. Yes, they did some double teaming and there were shots they could do nothing about, but they should've constantly swarmed him all over the court like Chuck and Kenny said and dared one of those other stiffs to make a shot.
It's beyond belief that late in a critical NBA conference finals playoff game, anyone -- even King James -- can essentially be allowed to waltz down the lane and dunk the ball. For shame, Pistons.
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I don't think I've ever seen one guy beat an entire team in the playoffs like that with so little help. LeBron was godlike and his teammates were standing around on offense awestruck like the soldiers in Children of Men.
That said, Detroit didn't pressure him nearly enough. Yes, they did some double teaming and there were shots they could do nothing about, but they should've constantly swarmed him all over the court like Chuck and Kenny said and dared one of those other stiffs to make a shot.
It's beyond belief that late in a critical NBA conference finals playoff game, anyone -- even King James -- can essentially be allowed to waltz down the lane and dunk the ball. For shame, Pistons.
For someone who spent most of the second half of the second half complaining to other Pistons about where they were positioned, Tayshaun Prince really might have wanted to try and slide over and play some help defense in the final minute of both overtimes.
It beats gesticulating.
JS
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Defensive breakdown or unstoppable human force of basketball?
I saw a whole bunch of contested shots, the only easy baskets coming as a result of sick sick moves.
[youtube=425,350]d1Px-jPm_TU[/youtube]
I believe Prince soiled himself around -2:50.
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Boy, I am late to this thread. I am way more for watching NBA than NCAA on a given night. Do I want to watch Minnesota play some team in Division II? There is no NBA game that would be as boring as that. There are some good match ups in the tourney and it makes for a lot of drama but if the NBA did this it would easily eclipse college. Hell, even 3 game series would make the NBA playoffs crazier. I think extending the first round to 7 might be a bit much but in general, the NBA playoffs have had some great moments. Lebron scoring 25 points in a row to win the game by two is much more interesting than anything that happened in the NCAA tourney. The final for the NCAA tourney was generally a snooze. Florida had far more talent than anyone else. At least with the NBA you have a stack of teams like Spurs, Dallas, and Phoenix who are stacked but you can't write off teams like Golden State (which was an awesome series with the Mavs).
I don't have cable and have been busy so I have caught very little of the playoffs but what I have caught has been pretty good. The Cavs are way over matched. I hope they can pick up the last two in Cleveland to make things interesting but I wouldn't be shocked if they are swept. The eastern conference is sad. I think almost anyone team out west could have got to the finals if they were out east versus the east who didn't have one team that would be a guaranteed first round winner.
I don't know why I am talking though living in Minneapolis with what is easily the worst NBA franchise in history. Their best year was great and it was only one year. Our contracts with crappy players (Hudson, Jaric, James, and several others) guarantee we will be stuck for years. Winning the draft lottery was our only hope. Durant is going to be rookie of the year and Oden will be good. I still think Oden can flop and he is definitely going to a team that could easily not use him properly.
FIRE KEVIN MCHALE.
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Also, nothing made me happier in the draft lottery than seeing Boston not get the #1 pick. They are going to stink it up again this year as well as Memphis so that at least the wolves won't be the absolute worst team (they are pretty close though).
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Do I want to watch Minnesota play some team in Division II?
That's what all the other Big Ten teams say when they play the Gophs....hopefully Tubby can turn it around.
There are a lot of franchises that are worse than the Wolves. At least Taylor spends some dough. McHale is horrid, but the Wolves were held up by two mistakes. The Joe Smith deal and signing Garnett to so much money. I would have done the same in regards to Garnett, but it changed the NBA and is the major factor why the Wolves can't build around KG. The salary cap changes made it impossible for a cold weather, small market team to bring in a veteran player with the new mid-level exception because those players now seek championship locks and nice climates. The changes also made it impossible to trade bad contracts and build by trading for pieces. Pretty much, the only way to build a contender is through the draft with some minor tweaking. Which brings us back the Joe Smith deal... McHale really only made one bad mistake, and he had to find a way to fix it, but because of the "KG changes" that's impossible to do. I think they need to trade Garnett for a guy about 4-5 years younger that they can build around because I think they'll be in a much better place 3-4 years down the road with some decent drafting.