FOT Forum
FOT Community => Links => Topic started by: yesno on August 03, 2008, 05:58:25 PM
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In an effort to piss off their readership, Adbusters runs an anti-hipster screed:
http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/79/hipster.html
Momus rejoins:
http://imomus.livejournal.com/390994.html
I agree with Momus that looking for "authenticity" and so forth is just kind of tired. Give up on this quest for originality. The giant world brain makes it unobtainable. (Also, however gross and secretly thrilling I find American Apparel ads, they do make some really good quality stuff.)
This is the comment I left on the momus blog:
Most of the people I know that I would characterize as hipsters tend to have rather shallow cultural knowledge. For them, it's about fashion (not style) and parties. I'm more of a person who prefers to spend a quiet evening with a book, so I don't envy them their parties. But I find it odd that the hipster is seen as some arbiter of taste when your average hipster is into the same dozen shit bands as his friends, and the same pop culture inflected visual stye as everyone else.
The people on stage, and the people who pass down The Knowledge, usually tend to be shy introverted types, not these type A scenesters.
Spot on with the rest of your criticism. I just think you give the average hipster way too much credit.
ps: Livejoural support for OpenID is terrible. Doesn't work.
I don't think I agree with myself of this morning that people who make good culture are never type A, when I think about it. But my own personal, chubby blogger-like (read the article for the reference) disdain for hipsters came about when there was this explosion of truly mediocre bands out of Brooklyn & other hipster meccas in the early 2000s. I'm on board with some of them now, but for a while it was rough. Also, suck.com came out pretty heavy against what it called "hipsters" in the late 90s, but I think it had a different beast in its sights.
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It seems to me that if you were to place a picture of the group of people known as "hipsters" next to one of the group that constantly complains about hipsters, you'd be looking at two of the same thing.
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It seems to me that if you were to place a picture of the group of people known as "hipsters" next to one of the group that constantly complains about hipsters, you'd be looking at two of the same thing.
truer words have yet to be spoken.
from time to time someone, usually a 'hipster' will ask what my WFMU t-shirt means. i often tell them that it is a truly awesome freeform radio station from jersey city that were at the forefront of broadcasting over the internet. perplexed, they say "you mean like pandora" maybe that off topic?
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It seems to me that if you were to place a picture of the group of people known as "hipsters" next to one of the group that constantly complains about hipsters, you'd be looking at two of the same thing.
Funny you should say that. Here's the author:
Douglas Haddow: When not burning the midnight oil writing for some of the world’s most prolific cultural magazines, Douglas Haddow can be found getting his eat/drink on at off the radar Korean, Vietnamese or Japanese restaurants. Inspired by the words of literary greats like Fyodor Dostoevsky, Haruki Murakami and J.G. Ballard and fueled by hearty bowls of five-dollar Pho, his well-articulated and insightful perspectives are attracting the attention of editors world-wide.
(http://www.theaestheticpoetic.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/douglashaddow.jpg)
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Seeing as how every single other counterculture ever started off idealistic and creative and then devolved into bland, cliche conformity and compromised principles, I for one applaud the modern hipster for jumping straight to the "superficial husk of a subculture" stage without having to bastardize something cool first. That, and they're goofy kids in goofy clothes dancing and drinking, I mean who the hell cares
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Noticing a few flickers of light splash out from the club bathroom, I peep in only to find one such photographer taking part in an impromptu soft-core porno shoot. Two girls and a guy are taking off their clothes and striking poses for a set of grimy glamour shots.
I'm fine with the hipster fashion (Personally, as Spike might say, I don't do hipster clothing) and I'm a fan of your average hipster music/movies, but I gotta say that this sort of stuff is what pisses me off the most. Disco coke-parties with guys looking like Vincent Gallo and Dov Charney trying to get sickly thin girls to strip off their clothing in bathooms like it's a real-life American Apparel ad sounds grimy and lame.
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Seeing as how every single other counterculture ever started off idealistic and creative and then devolved into bland, cliche conformity and compromised principles, I for one applaud the modern hipster for jumping straight to the "superficial husk of a subculture" stage without having to bastardize something cool first. That, and they're goofy kids in goofy clothes dancing and drinking, I mean who the hell cares
You make a very important point with this. It may be one of the first times in decades that true counterculture has been left to flourish in obscurity. I bet this has something to do with the world wide web.
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I liked the adbusters point about "What kind of counterculture is it when the only name that exists for it is "offensive"?"
They're less of a subculture along the lines of hippies, etc, and more like Edwardian dandies.
I like the Momus point of "What kind of beast are you that a bunch of kids having a good time bothers you? We should all be able to have a good, fun time." I agree with that sentiment.
Those kids still do tend to like bad music, though. The fatal flaw of eclecticism is lack of depth.
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I liked the adbusters point about "What kind of counterculture is it when the only name that exists for it is "offensive"?"
This is true of any subculture, and has nothing to do with hipsterism. It has always been uncool to fall so neatly into a subculture, so people rebel against any label. Think "emo" in the 90s and early 00s and the reactions it inspired in people. Everybody wants to fit in, but no one wants to admit it when they do.
I think the rejection of labels is something that has developed independent of any particular subculture.
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Everybody wants to fit in, but no one wants to admit it when they do.
I think the rejection of labels is something that has developed independent of any particular subculture.
When I was in grade 7 I dyed my hair green and went to ska shows and was really really really careful never to describe anything as "punk rock" lest people think I was trying to be punk rock, because if people thought that I would be a poser. Every time I passed someone with piercings or a skateboard or something, I would totally judge them, but more out of that weird, adolescent fear (you know the one I mean) that's all tied up with identity and insecurity than out of spite.
Now I live in a pretty hipster-y neighbourhood, and lately I've noticed that in any cafe or restaurant, around brunch-time, you can always hear someone with a funny hat and tons of facial hair making fun of someone in a sweater vest. Because they are wearing a sweater vest.
I am slowly getting used to the idea that nothing ever changes, and after high school it is just more high school but with more different beer and fewer classes.
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I liked the adbusters point about "What kind of counterculture is it when the only name that exists for it is "offensive"?"
This is true of any subculture, and has nothing to do with hipsterism. It has always been uncool to fall so neatly into a subculture, so people rebel against any label. Think "emo" in the 90s and early 00s and the reactions it inspired in people. Everybody wants to fit in, but no one wants to admit it when they do.
I think the rejection of labels is something that has developed independent of any particular subculture.
That's a good point, but many punks have worn and do wear the label proudly. Some with lots of other subcultures over the past 50 or so years.
I think that the conditions for the development of that sort subculture no longer obtain. There's too much communication, and access to culture is no longer very hard. The Adbusters guy was trying to criticize the hipsters from an irrelevant angle. I think that whole scene is just part of the blessing/curse that a lot of modern culture is. It's like, yay podcasts. Boo, not sitting down to read a novel. Yay, staying in touch with friends. Boo, jobs googling you. Yay, finding out about new bands. Boo, no longer any space for unique local scenes to develop in. What's the word for this? Post-something? I read it in a book somewheres.
edit: Emma, when I was around that age (late middle school/early high school) I totally used to make fun of kids who just assumed some easy subcultural identity overnight. My friends and I tried to be ultra-normal as our own rebellion against rebellion. While always making sure to just so casually bring up how cool we were from time to time. I mean, we listened to such cool bands as Therapy? and Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine, how could be not be awesome? Brother. Now, I kind of wish we had more subcultural diversity. I haven't seen a crusty punk in months. Where'd they go? And what is with that poser idea? No one was ever born cool except that one kid with a mustache in 5th grade.
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I am slowly getting used to the idea that nothing ever changes, and after high school it is just more high school but with more different beer and fewer classes.
No, emma! It's that way for some people. The people you should avoid.
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My main problem with hipsters is they've never bought any of my band's albums. They always want one for free.
I think a lot of hipster hate comes from people who were hipsters four years ago and then got in a long term relationship or started getting really bad hangovers and now just want to gentrify Echo Park in peace, not with all this Comets on Fire tomfoolery blaring out the windows at 2 am, you drunk children. Not that I have any personal experiences like that.
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I actually think it depends on the place. I hated hipsters when I lived in Williamsburg because so many of them were just assholes in the way only overly-privileged New Yorkers can be assholes. Then I go to a place like Austin or Portland and everyone's dressed the same as the Williamsburg kids but they're actually pretty decent.
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I was thinking that very same thing while driving around today. Most of the hipsters in Baltimore when I lived there (before it became the capital of cool it is now) were fashion-concerned nice people who wanted to learn a lot about music and to also get laid. There's not really anything wrong with either of those impulses. AND if you made a lot of noise in the street, or played kickball, you got shot. So that took care of a lot of bullshit.
I'm trying to decide whether over-priveleged New Yorkers are more or less annoying than over-priveleged Los Angelenos. I think I actually prefer NY, but it's a slim margin.
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people who hate hipsters are mad they arn't cool.
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Also, this is where i stopped reading that dumb article:
"The American Apparel V-neck shirt, Pabst Blue Ribbon beer and Parliament cigarettes are symbols and icons of working or revolutionary classes that have been appropriated by hipsterdom and drained of meaning."
Exsqueez me? Bacon powder?
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It seems to me that if you were to place a picture of the group of people known as "hipsters" next to one of the group that constantly complains about hipsters, you'd be looking at two of the same thing.
Funny you should say that. Here's the author:
Douglas Haddow: When not burning the midnight oil writing for some of the world’s most prolific cultural magazines, Douglas Haddow can be found getting his eat/drink on at off the radar Korean, Vietnamese or Japanese restaurants. Inspired by the words of literary greats like Fyodor Dostoevsky, Haruki Murakami and J.G. Ballard and fueled by hearty bowls of five-dollar Pho, his well-articulated and insightful perspectives are attracting the attention of editors world-wide.
(http://www.theaestheticpoetic.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/douglashaddow.jpg)
I hate that guy. I think every single word of this bio inspires contempt in me. Nice facial hair, jerk.
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Also, this is where i stopped reading that dumb article:
"The American Apparel V-neck shirt, Pabst Blue Ribbon beer and Parliament cigarettes are symbols and icons of working or revolutionary classes that have been appropriated by hipsterdom and drained of meaning."
Exsqueez me? Bacon powder?
Parliament cigarettes used to stand for something, maaaan
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Also, this is where i stopped reading that dumb article:
"The American Apparel V-neck shirt, Pabst Blue Ribbon beer and Parliament cigarettes are symbols and icons of working or revolutionary classes that have been appropriated by hipsterdom and drained of meaning."
Exsqueez me? Bacon powder?
Parliament cigarettes used to stand for something, maaaan
I miss the days when the revolutionary classes only wore american apparel t-shirts. What was that, the '50s? Before that stuff got commercialized.
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Noticing a few flickers of light splash out from the club bathroom, I peep in only to find one such photographer taking part in an impromptu soft-core porno shoot. Two girls and a guy are taking off their clothes and striking poses for a set of grimy glamour shots.
I gotta say that this sort of stuff is what pisses me off the most. Disco coke-parties with guys looking like Vincent Gallo and Dov Charney trying to get sickly thin girls to strip off their clothing in bathooms like it's a real-life American Apparel ad sounds grimy and lame.
This is a weird point that you (and the author) are making. Even though I am not sure (or the author) wants to necessarily be involved, its a sexy and pleasurable enough image that its hard to hear that kind of hazy morality argument without hearing some jealousy also. I know that a lot of my personal judgemental-ness of hipsters (something I've been called also) often comes from the fact that I am not naturally skinny and am losing my hair rather than being able to have a Small Faces Rod Stewart cut (which I don't want, but the option...).
I do think a lot of the rhetoric on hipster hate sounds a lot like when closeted uber-Christians talk about gay people. There is a lot of 'these people look like they are having more fun than me' and just general envy involved. The part about it that is weird in LA and NYC, and this is just a theory, is that both places are so status-conscious that its like a panopticon of judgement where nobody seems to be having all the fun, but everyone is appearing that way.
edit: I know I am making the point that Gavin MacInnes made, but it seems kind of right.
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Sometimes I think it's just obvious that people are trying too hard to be hip. And that bugs me. Like when I see two twenty year olds walking down the street with matching mullet haircuts.
Or the guy I saw wearing cowboy boots and a fanny pack a few months ago.
Ridiculous.
I've also always hated skinny jeans. No matter who's wearing them.
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Noticing a few flickers of light splash out from the club bathroom, I peep in only to find one such photographer taking part in an impromptu soft-core porno shoot. Two girls and a guy are taking off their clothes and striking poses for a set of grimy glamour shots.
I gotta say that this sort of stuff is what pisses me off the most. Disco coke-parties with guys looking like Vincent Gallo and Dov Charney trying to get sickly thin girls to strip off their clothing in bathooms like it's a real-life American Apparel ad sounds grimy and lame.
This is a weird point that you (and the author) are making. Even though I am not sure (or the author) wants to necessarily be involved, its a sexy and pleasurable enough image that its hard to hear that kind of hazy morality argument without hearing some jealousy also. I know that a lot of my personal judgemental-ness of hipsters (something I've been called also) often comes from the fact that I am not naturally skinny and am losing my hair rather than being able to have a Small Faces Rod Stewart cut (which I don't want, but the option...).
I do think a lot of the rhetoric on hipster hate sounds a lot like when closeted uber-Christians talk about gay people. There is a lot of 'these people look like they are having more fun than me' and just general envy involved. The part about it that is weird in LA and NYC, and this is just a theory, is that both places are so status-conscious that its like a panopticon of judgement where nobody seems to be having all the fun, but everyone is appearing that way.
edit: I know I am making the point that Gavin MacInnes made, but it seems kind of right.
I can't argue that those people are having more fun than me. My stance in life with casual sex and drug use is that I don't need to make more problems for myself than I've already got. I don't try converting people since it's natural to experiment and enjoy yourself. I just still think doing rails and sweaty sex in a bathroom sounds a little odd. I'm not saying that all hipsters do this (since they don't), but the idea of that sounds creepy to me.
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Also, this is where i stopped reading that dumb article:
"The American Apparel V-neck shirt, Pabst Blue Ribbon beer and Parliament cigarettes are symbols and icons of working or revolutionary classes that have been appropriated by hipsterdom and drained of meaning."
Yeah, working class, yes. “Revolutionary”? Not so sure about that one.
You got farther than me, though. I pretty much threw in the towel after "We’ve reached a point in our civilization where counterculture has mutated into a self-obsessed aesthetic vacuum." That's a classic myopic, Chicken Little Adbusters-ism if I've ever read one. It's not like anyone ever said the exact same thing about the hippies, Beats, 1950s JDs, 1920s ragtime culture, etc.
I remember being in high school and reading Adbusters with my cool “political” friends and getting a thrill from it. And then I remember the day not long after that when I saw a layout that had a photo of a random woman walking down a street in a city, with a box drawn over her head that read “WORK, SHOP, SLEEP, REPEAT”, and getting really offended and upset and thinking “Fuck you, Adbusters, you don’t know that lady, she could have a family, be a really cool person, work really hard to do things right and help people, who the fuck are you, anyway?, etc.” That’s when I realized that, upon reflection, Adbusters seemed to be a lot more about that high school impulse of looking smart by poking holes and criticizing everything else you see than I had realized before, and thinking that that maybe wasn’t as cool as it seemed to be at first. Nothing in that mag has ever done much to change my thinking about that ever since then.
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Parliaments are tasty cigarettes. I like them. I also like PBR. It reminds me of Miller Light or Natty Boh. I don't think of them as icons for anything, really.
(Nonsmokers, please don't start in on me about the "tasty cigarettes" comment...)
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for the record, the Budweiser tall boy was the original "look, I'm totally working class"* beer amongst the young folks.
*thx to HG for that one.
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on a related note, I happened to be flipping through a recent issue of Vice and was really taken aback at the super-expensive Colt 45 ad that was at the front.
It seems that this malt liquor company (which was, btw my drink of choice between '93 - '97) has taken on a total indie-fied approach to it's marketing. They had all these underground comix types write and draw "Tales of Colt 45" for the little comic that comes with the ad. It sort of reminds me of what they did with OK Soda back in the early 90s.
Really though, it's so obvious that they are aiming to ironic-ize the product in hopes that it will catch on with the kids. They even have a site, http://www.talesofcolt45.com (http://www.talesofcolt45.com) where you can "ink the can" with your own designs. I submitted a Hard Hat Radio one, but they haven't posted it for some reason.
I find this kind of stuff fascinating.
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on a related note, I happened to be flipping through a recent issue of Vice and was really taken aback at the super-expensive Colt 45 ad that was at the front.
It seems that this malt liquor company (which was, btw my drink of choice between '93 - '97) has taken on a total indie-fied approach to it's marketing. They had all these underground comix types write and draw "Tales of Colt 45" for the little comic that comes with the ad. It sort of reminds me of what they did with OK Soda back in the early 90s.
Really though, it's so obvious that they are aiming to ironic-ize the product in hopes that it will catch on with the kids. They even have a site, http://www.talesofcolt45.com (http://www.talesofcolt45.com) where you can "ink the can" with your own designs. I submitted a Hard Hat Radio one, but they haven't posted it for some reason.
I find this kind of stuff fascinating.
Yup. That's what is so hilarious about this article: Adbusters, this marketing "watchdog," thinks PBR was STOLEN from the revolutionary-by-default working class by evil college-educated 20-somethings.
I work in advertising (no one hates it more than me, I promise), and my coworkers are on the phone with liquor/beer companies all the time. I can tell you, hipsters didn't make PBR popular by themselves - as soon as it became fashionable a few years ago, PBR dumped piles and piles of money into bars to get them to carry the beer. When a beer company is riding a trend like that, they're careful not to buy a bunch of billboards or TV spots, but they can still aggressively market their beer by making sure its in as many bars as possible. PBR is in almost ever bar now - the whole thing was about as engineered as it gets.
On the horizon, two other bottom-tier beers are trying to do the same thing: Colt 45 and Schlitz. In the next 5 years, you're going to see a lot more bars carrying $1.75 cans of Schlitz.
I wonder if Adbusters is going to shed a tear?
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The only thing revolutionary about PBR is that a case of it is half the price of any reasonable-tasting beer.
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Also, this is where i stopped reading that dumb article:
"The American Apparel V-neck shirt, Pabst Blue Ribbon beer and Parliament cigarettes are symbols and icons of working or revolutionary classes that have been appropriated by hipsterdom and drained of meaning."
Exsqueez me? Bacon powder?
Parliament cigarettes used to stand for something, maaaan
I miss the days when the revolutionary classes only wore american apparel t-shirts. What was that, the '50s? Before that stuff got commercialized.
Didn't the Gorch invent the American Apparel t-shirt?
I would love to hear Tom read this article on the air with that voice he does when he's reading something so dumb.
People judging people who judge people. Who cares?
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on a related note, I happened to be flipping through a recent issue of Vice and was really taken aback at the super-expensive Colt 45 ad that was at the front.
It seems that this malt liquor company (which was, btw my drink of choice between '93 - '97) has taken on a total indie-fied approach to it's marketing. They had all these underground comix types write and draw "Tales of Colt 45" for the little comic that comes with the ad. It sort of reminds me of what they did with OK Soda back in the early 90s.
Really though, it's so obvious that they are aiming to ironic-ize the product in hopes that it will catch on with the kids. They even have a site, http://www.talesofcolt45.com (http://www.talesofcolt45.com) where you can "ink the can" with your own designs. I submitted a Hard Hat Radio one, but they haven't posted it for some reason.
I find this kind of stuff fascinating.
Yup. That's what is so hilarious about this article: Adbusters, this marketing "watchdog," thinks PBR was STOLEN from the revolutionary-by-default working class by evil college-educated 20-somethings.
I work in advertising (no one hates it more than me, I promise), and my coworkers are on the phone with liquor/beer companies all the time. I can tell you, hipsters didn't make PBR popular by themselves - as soon as it became fashionable a few years ago, PBR dumped piles and piles of money into bars to get them to carry the beer. When a beer company is riding a trend like that, they're careful not to buy a bunch of billboards or TV spots, but they can still aggressively market their beer by making sure its in as many bars as possible. PBR is in almost ever bar now - the whole thing was about as engineered as it gets.
On the horizon, two other bottom-tier beers are trying to do the same thing: Colt 45 and Schlitz. In the next 5 years, you're going to see a lot more bars carrying $1.75 cans of Schlitz.
I wonder if Adbusters is going to shed a tear?
Yeah, I was gonna post something similar to this after reading last week's NY Times Book Review's review of Consumed by Rob Walker. I've yet to read the book, but apparently Walker uses PBR as a big example in the book.
Here's the link to the review http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/books/review/Manjoo-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/books/review/Manjoo-t.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)
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Poor Jim Mahfood. He just wanted some money and now he's Joe Camel!!!
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People judging people who judge people. Who cares?
This is a perfect summary of the entire article.
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On the horizon, two other bottom-tier beers are trying to do the same thing: Colt 45 and Schlitz. In the next 5 years, you're going to see a lot more bars carrying $1.75 cans of Schlitz.
not that im bragging, ok maybe a little bit, but i got to meet the CFO of Pabst Brewing a few weeks ago and it turns out that PBR owns, Colt 45, Schlitz, Schafers, Old Milwaukee, Balintine and i think Lone Star. with the exception of Colt 45 and Balintine i think it is the same beer in all of those cans.
he made it very clear that they are very happy with their growth in the sub cultures.
i drank Pabst when i was 20 and i drink Pabst now and ill drink it when im 40, i am the working class after all.
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On the horizon, two other bottom-tier beers are trying to do the same thing: Colt 45 and Schlitz. In the next 5 years, you're going to see a lot more bars carrying $1.75 cans of Schlitz.
not that im bragging, ok maybe a little bit, but i got to meet the CFO of Pabst Brewing a few weeks ago and it turns out that PBR owns, Colt 45, Schlitz, Schafers, Old Milwaukee, Balintine and i think Lone Star. with the exception of Colt 45 and Balintine i think it is the same beer in all of those cans.
he made it very clear that they are very happy with their growth in the sub cultures.
i drank Pabst when i was 20 and i drink Pabst now and ill drink it when im 40, i am the working class after all.
Colt 45, Schlitz, PBR, etc. are all brewed by Miller. If you were to tour the headquarters of the "Pabst Brewing Company," you would meet a ton of marketing people - because that's all they do. The entire company is just an advertising firm for "working class" brands.
I'm not slamming Pabst - I drink it more than any other beer. I only brought it up to laugh at Adbusters claiming it was some symbol of the working class, when it is the very definition of engineered-to-be-desirable-to-art-students schlock. Which is ironic, because that is EXACTLY WHAT ADBUSTERS CLAIMS TO HATE.
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It's amazing how much of popular culture one can choose to ignore completely.
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Hipsterdom and gentrification are two sides of the same coin. Easy to criticize, but as MOS points out, difficult to seperate oneself from, when at the point that you're actually of the mind to identify and label it. Say I'm a hipster and I'm insulted by it. Say I'm not a hipster and I'm insulted by it. Whatever.
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maybe the one interesting point that the adbusters artical brings up is about how Punks and B-boys/girls are so quick to let everyone know who they are, by the way they dress, the music that they listen to ect... but truth is, do these sub-cultures even exist anymore? if i had to identify with a label i might fell more at home with the B-Boy label. thats not to say that i know how to dj, or have break danced since high school. or even closely resemble a B-Boy. i always though of myself more like a closet metalhead who hates metal, except for Black Sabbath.
as for crust punks, come up to Portland Maine it seems to be the summer home of crusts on the east coast.
yesterday i was standing outside the building i rent a studio in down town and there where a group of crusts walking in one direction and a group of hipsters walking in the other, both walking reservoir dogs style. they crossed paths right in front of my stoop. oh man i wanted to see a throw down!! but they awkwardly walked past each other trying there best not to give up any sidewalk space.
as for Pabst being brewed by miller, im not sure if that is true anymore. in other news with the new IvBev/Budwiser deal Pabst is now the largest american owned brewery in the US.
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This whole thing makes me kind of gloss over, as soon as I try to start thinking about it I get extremely bored. I do find it funny that the girls in the article treat "hipster" like the white person's n-word.
But since this thread is meandering anyway, I'd like to submit a much finer examination of youth cohorts. This is from Harpers a few months ago, and is a trip down the Mississippi in a home made raft with some crusty kids. Is this what Adbusters proposes is the solution? Or should we just get on with it and hold a public execution of Girl Talk & Dan Deacon?
http://matthewpower.net/miss.pdf
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The thing I love about this article is how the writer acts like he's blown the lid off "youth subculture" - the once underground youth subculture is appropriated by the shallow mainstream? Wait, whuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut?
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This article sounds a lot like Miss Rockaway (http://www.missrockaway.org/wordpress/project-info/).
I think the whole question of "underground" versus mainstream is probably the more interesting question -- the fact that a small niche of people quickly can get exposed to larger audiences (for better or worse) versus just finding a small core of people that are interested in it, combined with the idea of things getting sold out/bought/misappropriated and people getting angry that more people know about something. Though that notion is pretty treaded over and boring. Wait, whuuuuuuuuuuuuut, indeed.
Overall, the Adbusters piece just makes me glad that I don't give them money anymore. Your sneakers suck, too. Adbusters doesn't propose any solution -- it's what (I think John Junk) coined "dread porn."
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I'm actually a B-Boy.
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I'm actually a B-Boy.
aws!!
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I was overall okay with this article, except for one part that really bugged me. The whole Keffiyeh thing. The guy's just like "these were originally worn by radicals to show solidarity, but now everyone's wearing them and they're meaningless".
Let me get this straight: It was a symbol of solidarity with the Palestinians but now because it's become trendy, it's not worth shit, and all you are is an asshole following a trend if you wear one.
So anyone who's worn one in the past (like me-- one a gift from a friend in Jordan, the other from my mom and dad, and honestly the warmest bestest scarves I've ever worn) and still wears one even though it's trendy is automatically an asshole? Or hell, anyone that just bought one, for that matter. It doesn't matter when you decided to start expressing a viewpoint with your clothing, but that you express it. Sure, Rachel Ray probably had no idea, and yes, it is a trend but so fucking what?
Thanks, dude. I'll make sure not to go to that peace rally next week. Oh, and I'm going to stop recycling and start eating meat again. All this social action shit's getting too trendy for me.
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Yeah, that bothered me too. There was probably someone talking about women wearing pants in the same terms in the '50's.
Women in Pants: Once a benchmark of radical feminism and/or equestrian ladies, pants have now become so ubiquitous and trendy that soon our slang where we call women "skirts" won't have an appropriate referent any more!
... well, you get the idea.
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honestly, i don't see any good reason to hate hipsters
if you're mad that they ruin the things you like and the way you like the dress and are always hanging out in the places you hang out. you probably are one.
if you're mad because you think what they like and how they dress is stupid then you're just a petty jerk.
and who can honestly say they don't enjoy a good kickball game?
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and who can honestly say they don't enjoy a good kickball game?
Me. I have no depth perception.
(awkward silence)
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and who can honestly say they don't enjoy a good kickball game?
In 5th grade our class was supposed to be able to play a game of kickball as a reward for something. I didn't want to play and the teacher forced me to. I'm still mad about it ~8 years later.
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I find the hipsters harmless, and, oddly, less awkward and self-aware than a roomful of skinheads. As long as they keep tipping and their money is green, bring 'em on.
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I find the hipsters harmless, and, oddly, less awkward and self-aware than a roomful of skinheads. As long as they keep tipping and their money is green, bring 'em on.
When was the last time you were in a room full of skinheads?
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I find the hipsters harmless, and, oddly, less awkward and self-aware than a roomful of skinheads. As long as they keep tipping and their money is green, bring 'em on.
When was the last time you were in a room full of skinheads?
me? http://www.friendsoftom.com/forum/index.php/topic,899.0.html
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I find the hipsters harmless, and, oddly, less awkward and self-aware than a roomful of skinheads. As long as they keep tipping and their money is green, bring 'em on.
When was the last time you were in a room full of skinheads?
Pretty much every Wednesday for the last year. http://www.myspace.com/rootsandrazors (http://www.myspace.com/rootsandrazors)
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Seriously, doesn't hating get old?
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No hating here. Just making an observation.
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(http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0824/20080824_114349_protests.jpg)
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(http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0824/20080824_114349_protests.jpg)
They can't be hipsters; they're rebelling against the system! Unless Adbusters lied to me.