Adam Curtis the Power of Nightmares

[JP]

I'm most often *well* behind the curve and this is not any different.  I'm sure every single one of you has seen this, but if not, it changed my life a year or so ago (even if the overall conclusions of the film are a bit too tidy):

http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares

I just watched the Century of the Self the last couple of nights which was not as good but still interesting.

Basically, can I just get some shout outs about how great The Power of Nightmares is?

JP

(i just realized I should have posted this in the appropriate FOT forum - but it wont let me delete this - sorry!)

[Bryan]

Yes, I love these documentaries too. I feel like Adam Curtis knows everything.

[J. Garbage]

I just watched Century of the Self last week, had no idea who Curtis was or anything, just saw it in the video library where I work.  Incidentally, it gave me weird dreams.  But I thought it was awesome!  Sometime I'll try out "Nightmares".

[Keith Whitener]

<3 Adam Curtis

[ericluxury]

I've seen and really enjoyed all his series' (Century of the Self (which I actually think is the best one), Power of Nightmares, and The Trap), but I've often wondered how exactly they should be watched. First of all, I am learning plenty of information when I watch his documentaries. But its also apparent that they are being filtered to a pretty extreme level. His use of creepy music and filtering video to make it look like it would be playing on the reel from A Clockwork Orange can really taint what I think of the information.

People jump all over Michael Moore for the way he cuts his movies' and I've defended parts of his style by saying that by making the movie from his voice, he is clearly marking it as an argument and/or propaganda. You can make the same argument for Adam Curtis. But I don't want to have to.

I watch his movies and they are so well put together with such exciting theses that I want to feel that they are true but he is so manipulative in his presentation. Add to that the fact that they are never to be released in America in any official capacity and you never get a real discussion of what one should take out of his movies. I guess I started by loving them and now I am frustrated by them. However when anyone in life tells me they've seen them, its generally the start of a great conversation.

[Bryan]

I think it's a mistake to think that documentaries can't/shouldn't have a point of view. Most good ones (and Curtis' films are very good) are more like filmed essays than they are like the news.

[ericluxury]

I agree. I guess my concern comes in when he gives tons of information but then colors all of it. That is a point of view, but with Power of Nightmares especially, it was very visceral. And then afterwards I realized that with the soundtrack and video filters he was using he could make any youtube clip look like the workings of Big Brother.
I am predisposed to agree with that point of view, but there is a point where an essay becomes propaganda. And a point where the footage is so filtered into a point of view that how do you differeniate the extremism and alarmism of Power of Nightmares from Fox News alarmism?

[Bryan]

And a point where the footage is so filtered into a point of view that how do you differeniate the extremism and alarmism of Power of Nightmares from Fox News alarmism?

One of them confirms my beliefs, therefore it's brilliant, nuanced and sophisticated. The other one challenges my beliefs, therefore it's reactionary, pandering garbage.

Only sort of joking.

[J. Garbage]

The Century of the Self is great, and it weaves together some movements I would otherwise not make connections between, but the thesis is only really strong in the first two episodes.  By now It's no big secret that people do everything according to opinion polls and market testing, and it's no big secret that that system is annoying and shortsighted and deeply flawed.  The background music suggests that this is actually EVIL but I'm not totally sold on that idea.  Someone should figure out the most effective way to sell me that idea by appealing to my irrational sense of self.

[Bryan]

By now It's no big secret that people do everything according to opinion polls and market testing, and it's no big secret that that system is annoying and shortsighted and deeply flawed.  The background music suggests that this is actually EVIL but I'm not totally sold on that idea.

As I recall, The Trap expands on this idea pretty convincingly.

[Bryan]

I agree. I guess my concern comes in when he gives tons of information but then colors all of it. That is a point of view, but with Power of Nightmares especially, it was very visceral. And then afterwards I realized that with the soundtrack and video filters he was using he could make any youtube clip look like the workings of Big Brother.

Eric, I've been thinking about this since you raised it in an even earlier thread. I guess my response is this: I don't think that the right should have a monopoly on rhetoric. If there's actually meat to an argument, the rhetorical tools used to present it should be more or less irrelevant. Propaganda isn't necessarily a bad thing, though it is a loaded term.

[JP]

I agree. I guess my concern comes in when he gives tons of information but then colors all of it. That is a point of view, but with Power of Nightmares especially, it was very visceral. And then afterwards I realized that with the soundtrack and video filters he was using he could make any youtube clip look like the workings of Big Brother.

Eric, I've been thinking about this since you raised it in an even earlier thread. I guess my response is this: I don't think that the right should have a monopoly on rhetoric. If there's actually meat to an argument, the rhetorical tools used to present it should be more or less irrelevant. Propaganda isn't necessarily a bad thing, though it is a loaded term.

Whenever I now see video images of a young, smiling, Tony Blair getting out of a car I break out in a cold sweat. 

I hadn't thought of the irony in Curtis using techniques that he seems to condemn.  Once you are enlightened though you have the tools to avoid deception.  I learned my critical thinking skills at what many would think would be a repressive university (BYU) but they are the same skills that I'm sure are taught at UC Santa Cruz.  The sin is people not having the critical thinking skills (which I do believe need taught, in general, as opposed to being innate) 

Somewhat related - I was watching "look around you" season 1 with my 5 and 7 year old and had to explain to them that it was funny because it was fake.  Now anytime they hear a british person narrating something they say "he's lying huh dad."   Probably a good assumption!

Also somewhat related - how many white, middle class liberals are a result of U2 and Radiohead - who only developed critical thinking skills later?