Gas in Europe

[Gilly]

Does anyone drive over there anymore? All of us US citizens are moaning about our prices but it's nowhere near as bad as Europe. How do you guys manage to get around?

[Martin]

I don't own a car. In the city, I walk everywhere, take the bus sometimes. My bike has two flat tires, should probably get them fixed. Bigger cities: trams or metros.

If I'm travelling long distances, I take the train. The train takes me basically anywhere in Sweden, Denmark and Germany without much hassle. Prague too. Further than that (England, France, Spain, Italy, etc) I take the aaaeerrrooplane.

[Gilly]

That must be nice. So, is driving limited to upper class only? How much does it cost to take the train?

Here in MN, our legislation has been bickering about light rail that would extend through about 1/4 of the state. But still, bus prices aren't cheap either. It's 2 dollars a ride during peak hours or 80 dollars a month for a pass. I spend just a little more than that for gas per month (but my job doesn't have me driving in rush hour). I don't know if we'll ever see the day when public transportation is considered essential or the day when it's cheap and accessible in MN.

[yesno]

Lack of a good train system is TERRIBLE in the US.  I guess you can sort of do it in the Northeast, but I remember what a hassle it was to get from Philadelphia to Bay Head. 

In Colorado there's a whole cadre of people who've been fighting the Denver/Boulder light rail like you wouldn't believe.  Mostly libertarians who don't understand network effects and positive externalities -- pardon my nerd -- but these same people have no problem with throwing tax dollars at pointless highway upgrades.  It's like they don't like the very idea of public transportation because it smells too European, even when it's cheaper tax-wise and overall for society than constant investments in car infrastructure.  It just bugs the shit out of me.

My two favorite modes of transportation:

(1) Train
(2) Blimp (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/02/aeroscraft_rebi.php)

edit:  I also like trolleys.  The history of trolleys in the US is some scandalous shit.

[Martin]

That must be nice. So, is driving limited to upper class only? How much does it cost to take the train?

Oh no, lots of people own cars. Don't get me wrong, if you live in a small town or the countryside and/or have kids and so on, you almost have to have a car, it's the same as anywhere else. I live in a big city, so I basically don't need to. The point is we're not as super-reliant on cars as Americans are, generally speaking.

A simple bus fare in the city is about $2. Monthly pass about $70 (including local trains). Train fares can be quite expensive, there's a lot of debate about that here - if we are to encourage people to take the train more and more, we also need to make it less expensive, etc. If you know your way around the booking systems you can get really cheap tickets, like $20 from Malmö to Stockholm (~350 miles), but that's on off-hours and if you buy your ticket well in advance. I'm travelling first class from Malmö to Gothenburg (~200 miles) and back this weekend, and I paid a total of ~$65. Not too bad.

(All very interesting I'm sure.)

[Gilly]

Here's how terrible the bus system is in MN. I live 5 miles outside of Minneapolis and 15-20 minutes from my job in the heart of St. Paul. To take a bus to work I need to walk at least a mile to the bus I need to catch, get on a bus and transfer twice. The bus trip alone is an hour and fifteen minutes, the walk probably 15-20 minutes at least. Then legislators wonder why bridges are falling down, highways look like crap and traffic is horrendous. You have to live in the city to make public transportation work for you and even then I bet it's still horrible.

[Gilly]

How do people afford those insane prices? Is there something I'm missing here? I just can't see any middle class worker being able to afford 8-9 US dollars per gallon.

[Martin]

I guess you have to ask the people who own cars, but one explanation might be that most people with cars usually don't drive more than 10 miles to work every day - in fact, I don't think I know anyone who does. Smaller countries, shorter distances. So that would mean less money spent on gas.

Your situation with the public transportation sounds horrifying.

[chrisfoll577]

not to mention that in the us when train service actually runs where you live, the fares are prohibitive. it costs me roughly $8 a day to drive my car with today's gas prices, insurance etc.  if i was to take the train, i'd pay $3 to park at the station $10 for a round trip ticket and nearly $3 for roundtrip subway fare once i get into the city, making it twice as expensive to ride than to drive.  all the time spent waiting for the train is a waste as well.  i'd gladly take public transit if it was cheap and convenient. unfortunately around here it's not.

[Emily]

i thought this thread was going to be about the other kind of "natural" gas

:-(

[Sarah]

Still having problems, emily?

[Emily]

heh. i think its just like my genetic buildup

[Stan]

heh. i think its just like my genetic buildup

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