Author Topic: Why, Obama?  (Read 6236 times)

Sarah

  • Guest
Re: Why, Obama?
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2008, 01:05:07 PM »
This is what I said/say to anyone who expresses reservations about Obama or Clinton because of evidence of two-facedness and what-not.  I mean, of course they're bastards.  You can't get far in politics otherwise.  Feeling betrayed by Obama because he's not pure perfection is just plain silly.

Fido

  • Space Champion!
  • Posts: 1017
Re: Why, Obama?
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2008, 01:46:02 PM »
This is what I said/say to anyone who expresses reservations about Obama or Clinton because of evidence of two-facedness and what-not.  I mean, of course they're bastards.  You can't get far in politics otherwise.  Feeling betrayed by Obama because he's not pure perfection is just plain silly.

And this is exactly what I've said to numerous friends/colleagues over the past few months. Liberals who looked into Obama's eyes and saw love really need to ratchet down their expectations several notches. It's just the nature of our political system that a president will take positions and, if elected, actions that will create tremendous disillusionment among their "base." What's more, that's probably for the best. Our current president, who shall remain nameless, has really governed from a pretty stridently ideological place, and look at the ideological conflict that he has sown. A lot of conservatives and liberals who won't talk to each other.  And still, the most ideologically devoted conservatives are disappointed (e.g., taxes, the fact that Medicare and Medicaid haven't been dismantled, Social Security, the list goes on).

A great lesson for me was how "sold out" I felt by Bill Clinton, again and again, on issues like DOMA or welfare reform. What I discovered is that Clinton was also shrewdly co-opting Republican issues this way and that, which turned out not to be a bad way to govern from the standpoint of his political survival (which was ultimately threatened by his more prurient pursuits, not so much by his policy positions). And it beat the hell out of having, say, Newt Gingrich running the country.

Just wait until these poor liberal folks get a nice, big taste of disillusionment. You can't always get what you want. And if you could, our political system would be terribly unstable.

(Mokin, I thought your comments were right on too)

Fido

  • Space Champion!
  • Posts: 1017
Re: Why, Obama?
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2008, 01:50:26 PM »
It just reminds me of how Democrats for years have ceded ground to the right in order to try to prove that they're not a party of weak-kneed, reckless liberals, when standing their ground and asserting their principles might have been the right way to proceed in the first place.

This has been driving me nuts for years, Fido.

Quote
This FISA business just makes me think that it'll be sooner rather than later that I'll be forced to withdraw to rural New Mexico or North Dakota and live off of the grid, communicating only by telegram.

Why not Lubec?

It's so nicely tucked into the edge of our country and nestled into New Brunswick, surely no one would notice me. Right? And you get to see the sun rise before everyone else in America. Actually, that's practically meaningless to me, since as a night owl and anti-morning person, I would never be awake at that hour.

chrisfoll577

  • Guest
Re: Why, Obama?
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2008, 02:06:59 PM »
This is what I said/say to anyone who expresses reservations about Obama or Clinton because of evidence of two-facedness and what-not.  I mean, of course they're bastards.  You can't get far in politics otherwise.  Feeling betrayed by Obama because he's not pure perfection is just plain silly.

Sarah's spot on... politicians don't win elections by being politically orthodox according to their most strident supporters.  They compromise, make deals and play ball. Obama's doing this because he knows that he can securely make a mad dash to the middle with lots of decisions unpopular with his base. Consider this as him cashing in just a little political capital from the true believers.  McCain has to strike a much more delicate balance with his base vs. the middle because the folks far to the right don't trust him much more than liberals do.

I'm not as smitten with Obama as other Democrats are, and I know this sounds cynical, but I've come to respect him a little more for his last week of going back on public financing, supporting faith based initiatives and his politically expedient fisa vote.  Integrity and shrewdness aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, and the fact that he's a little flexible makes me less worried that he'll rely more on idealism and less on pragmatism when he's President.

I fear for those not yet disillusioned that he's going to have a few more disappointments for them in the future (e.g. Iraq withdrawals, energy policy, Vice President pick).

yesno

  • Space Champion!
  • Posts: 3426
Re: Why, Obama?
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2008, 02:13:33 PM »
McCain, if anything, has been drifting to the right since the nomination.

Fido

  • Space Champion!
  • Posts: 1017
Re: Why, Obama?
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2008, 02:45:26 PM »
I realize that so much of this phenomenon has been made in the media that's it's old news now, but I have this friend who supported Hillary in the primaries, and declared at one point that he couldn't support Obama.
 
It sounded to me like, "I'm taking my toys and going home."  hahaha



Sarah

  • Guest
Re: Why, Obama?
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2008, 02:53:21 PM »
Actually, that's practically meaningless to me, since as a night owl and anti-morning person, I would never be awake at that hour.

One takes care of that by staying up all night.

Back to politicians:  I have a soft spot for Lyndon Johnson because he was such a clever practitioner of the political system, and he connived, manipulated, and cheated to get a lot done.  Yeah, yeah, I know, Vietnam was not jewel in his crown, but as far as domestic social programs went, he did some good work.

And I couldn't believe those short-sighted fools who said they were going to vote for McCain if Clinton didn't get the nomination.  Bunch of dumb babies.

Bryan

  • Space Champion!
  • Posts: 1635
Re: Why, Obama?
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2008, 02:54:58 PM »
I realize that so much of this phenomenon has been made in the media that's it's old news now, but I have this friend who supported Hillary in the primaries, and declared at one point that he couldn't support Obama.
 
It sounded to me like, "I'm taking my toys and going home."  hahaha


I was really confused by that whole PUMA thing, too. A couple of weeks ago, Salon had a piece that summarized a dozen or so points that the PUMA-ettes felt aggrieved by. When I started reading it, I thought to myself, "At last I'll be able to understand this phenomenon!"

By the time I finished it I saw that it was no more nuanced than (as you say), "I'm taking my toys and going home." Come on, guys!