I like A, I like B, but I HATE A+B

[TL]

I like Florida.

I like state universities, at least the one I attended.

I hate FSU.*

* Tonight, I had the distinctly nauseating experience of speed-dialing the Cambridge PD while the sound of some poor schlub's ribs getting broken by a pair of FSU-affiliated Doc Martens was echoing in the background. And I'm not talking about Florida State University. Oi, oi, shitheads.

Are those boneheads still around?  "Friends Stand United" - what a bummer.  And now they're "skins?"
Didn't they used to all be jock-ish straight edge posi-core thugs?

[Laurie]

As long as we're on the topic of moronic skinheads (Are there any other kind? No), can someone please explain SHARPs to me? I don't get it, especially since they're apparent not SKAGs*... Ugh.

Also, while you're at it, explain gay skinheads to me, too. Although I will admit, I have never met a gay skinhead. I think it's probably just a porno invention.




*Skinheads Against Gaybashing, not Winesack!

[Jason]

?

[TL]

?

ZUNG!!

[Tim K in DC]

I should also mention the state university I attended was in RI, not Florida.

(That gang*) is still around. I don't know the details of its history, but Boston has long been a stronghold for them. A woman I know who bartends at a place I frequent told me recently that she was asked to leave a party for espousing anti-(that gang) opinions. "We don't want to have to kick your ass," one affiliate apparently told her. So they've learned some social graces, evidently.

It has become a lot more covert, at least where I live. But they are still out there. I suspect that a few of my co-workers are involved, but it has never been talked about openly.

It sucks, because the ones that I suspect are involved are generally good people, and as employees of a frequently volatile entertainment venue, we all have to watch each other's backs. I'll take (and have taken) a punch from any drunk, out of control douchebag; at a venue that (stupidly) is willing to book shows that draw the LCD, it's inevitable.  I'd never work there if there weren't so many tough mofos on hand to deal with the bad trash. Last night's episode, however, occurred after work. I was very close to entering the fray myself, because I don't like seeing my friends get assaulted. I don't know why I took out my phone instead. Maybe because I had already put my glasses in my back pocket a few too many times earlier that night.

As for the SHARPs, eew boy. I'm f*cking 36 years old. I don't get it. I didn't get it when I was half my age. The whole skinhead thing is retarded as far as I'm concerned. Why affiliate yourself with a movement if you need to constantly distinguish the fact that you're a non-racist type? There are some things that, like it or not, will always have ugly baggage. It's like trying to reclaim the swastika from Hitler. Futile.

* yeah, there is an edit coming; some of these thugs know how to type on the internet

[TL]

As for the SHARPs, eew boy. I'm f*cking 36 years old. I don't get it. I didn't get it when I was half my age. The whole skinhead thing is retarded as far as I'm concerned. Why affiliate yourself with a movement if you need to constantly distinguish the fact that you're a non-racist type? There are some things that, like it or not, will always have ugly baggage. It's like trying to reclaim the swastika from Hitler. Futile.

As long as we're on the topic of moronic skinheads (Are there any other kind? No), can someone please explain SHARPs to me? I don't get it, especially since they're apparent not SKAGs*... Ugh.

Also, while you're at it, explain gay skinheads to me, too. Although I will admit, I have never met a gay skinhead. I think it's probably just a porno invention.

*Skinheads Against Gaybashing, not Winesack!

It's all true, what you say, and this is a very long and pointelss discussion, but in a nutshell, though I'm not going to go out on the idiotic limb of saying that MOST are not morons, skinheads are not ALL morons - I know quite a few decent folks who fit the bill. 
As far as explaining it, Laurie, there's a certain sartortial component that attracts tough morons (and let's face it - the look was never about peace and love) and a certain cultural adherance to misunderstood "working class origins" that provides an excuse for people to use the sartorial components to remain morons; and even though skinhead style has West Indian origins and was explicitly non-racist and apolitical when it began, whatever people claim, once it moved beyond those origins in the late 60s, where it was a very specific cultural identifier for a very specific segment of the British population, the dificulty in defining just what exactly is "skinhead" should tell you that it's become mostly a style-vessel waiting to be filled by an ideology, and as with anything like that (which is pretty much any "style" at all, I guess), it's easily cöopted and twisted to accomodate racists and MORE morons - in fact, it LENDS itself to cöoptation by morons, including morons who will beat the shit out of someone for being racist, then beat the shit out of someone else for being gay.  And obviously, that sucks.
But DAMN does it look good!
As for gay skinheads - it's not just a porno invention - they're real, too.
Now as for Skag Winesack's dealings with gay racist skinhead gangs in Memphis, well...  apparently, they've got their hands in a number of different pies, so they make great informants.  And you really can't hold that against him - they guy's got a job to do!

[Tim K in DC]

You're right, TL, on all the historical stuff re. skinheads. FSU is a slightly different conundrum. A lot of the people who end up on their receiving end completely and absolutely deserve it, but more often than not they end up getting far more punishment than they deserve. Where do you draw the line? I know the guy who was wearing the boots that were quite literally breaking the (initially deserving) other clown's ribs, and as much as I like him as a friend, he was definitely out of line (not to mention drunk as hell and pissed off for reasons that have much more to do with his fucked up personal life than any stupid infraction that the recipient of his blows was guilty of). Nobody was right. Everybody was wrong. The worst thing about it was seeing people who had nothing whatsoever to do with whatever conflict started the thing getting swept up in the mayhem and literally being left with no choice but to throw punches to get out alive. It was horrifying.

[Tim K in DC]

Here's a video from a band with a singer who has been frequently threatened by FSU thugs:

[youtube=425,350]x0IKZQaAX5c[/youtube]

[Laurie]

[...]cöopted [...] cöoptation
But DAMN does it look good!

What, are we The New Yorker here?

And regarding the sartorial aspect -- yeah, I get that. I remember reading this NSFW blog entry on QUEERTY, but it still confuses me. I mean, I can look at a Bruce LaBruce picture of two skinheads making out, and I find that incredibly hot, okay? I really like this one heavily pierced German skinhead/gay porn star. But, you know, actually espousing skinhead views instead of just dressing up as them because you like their style? That, well, I dont get it.

Apparently the fellow who runs Skinheads.net is a major closet case. Go figure.

[TL]

But, you know, actually espousing skinhead views instead of just dressing up as them because you like their style? That, well, I dont get it.

But that's just it - it's hard to say what "skinhead views" are.  Racists have racist views, jerk-offs act like jerk-offs, and the look unfortunately attracts jerk-offs.  And though I'd never attempt to suggest there's not rampant and prevalent brutishness and thuggery under the skinhead umbrella (even if I wanted to do that, which I don't and can't, my own dear wifey, who was repeatedly beat up by area skinheads in highschool for being a "CRASS-hole" would turn me out, so...), I also know a bunch of straight up lovely people who also fall under that umbrella who'd give ANYONE who needed anything the Ben Shermans off their backs.
(Yawn.)
On a different note, though, of course, you're right that it's not at all surprising that one so given to outward signs of machismo would be a classic closet case.
And so it goes...

[Denim Gremlin]

I've done alot of anti-racist activist stuff in the past and have know many SHARPS and RASH* skins. I'd like to say there's a lot of good ones in the bunch but I really can't. it's been said already but the skinhead thing attracts a certain kid of person and they are generally, dumb, thuggish and completely narrow minded. e.g. I've known so many "left wing" skins who won't hesitate to call a Nazi a faggot. They are so obsessed with reclaiming their style that they lose sight of how they are making life miserable for everyone else around them.


also FSU "the gang" just got like a ten page article in the last rolling stone. weird!



*red anarchist skin heads

[KickTheBobo]

But that's just it - it's hard to say what "skinhead views" are.  Racists have racist views, jerk-offs act like jerk-offs, and the look unfortunately attracts jerk-offs.  And though I'd never attempt to suggest there's not rampant and prevalent brutishness and thuggery under the skinhead umbrella (even if I wanted to do that, which I don't and can't, my own dear wifey, who was repeatedly beat up by area skinheads in highschool for being a "CRASS-hole" would turn me out, so...), I also know a bunch of straight up lovely people who also fall under that umbrella who'd give ANYONE who needed anything the Ben Shermans off their backs.

Geez, where did your girlfriend go to highschool, inside a February 1987 issue of Maximum Rock n' Roll?

[TL]

Geez, where did your girlfriend go to highschool, inside a February 1987 issue of Maximum Rock n' Roll?

Yes - think "Scene Reports: Providence."

[Spalding]

Skins are lunkheads, but is there some way to rationalize listening to oi? It's moronic music made mostly by morons, but there are some classic shout-a-longs by Blitz, 4 Skins, and others.

[TL]

Skins are lunkheads, but is there some way to rationalize listening to oi? It's moronic music made mostly by morons, but there are some classic shout-a-longs by Blitz, 4 Skins, and others.

Remember when Tom went through his Aerosmith phase?
Don't overthink it - Blitz's "All Out Attack" EP is the greatest punk record ever recorded.
Shout along, by all means!