Math Haters are Common

[jane]

(or rather, I disagree, and possibly may have long forgotten the difference bewteen between post-punk and math-rock.  I might need help from Chris L. or Josh on this one.)

I think it's probably safe enough to say that all math rock is also postpunk.  Postpunk is the greater umbrella under which math rock would most reasonably fall.

I'm more talking about the phrase "math rock".  Post punk is awesome, don't get me wrong, and I love noise music and noise rock, but I cringe whenever I hear that phrase. 

yeah, music genre labels can cause a lot of confusion.  When I think of post punk I don’t  think of math rock, more like early ‘80’s bands like Gang Of Four, The Mekons, Fire Engines, Abwarts,etc.  Some people think of post punk as industrial music like Neubauten and Test Dept.   

And is noise really post punk, considering noise kind of predates punk?  Like, Metal Machine Music by Lou Reed or earlier stuff, like AMM, Luigi Russolo, Nihilist Spasm band and so on.   

And really, what is noise music?  There are so many subgenres of noise when I think of Japanese bands like The Incapacitants, Hijokaidan, and, well, Merzbow.  European noise such as Whitehouse, Sudden Infant, Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock gets a lot of respect.  And the current American noise stuff out there like Prurient, Tesco Terror, Yellow Swans, Wolf Eyes (who get classified as noise but are, in my opinion, actually closer to something like Throbbing Gristle) and a bunch more with pretty offensive names that I don’t feel that comfortable listing here.  But on the other hand, how can I leave out a great band like Two Dead Sl**ts, One Good F**ck.  And within noise let’s not forget subgenres such as Power Electronics, Harsh Noise and Noise Core, which are all something completely different again.   

Yeah, I agree, Lightning Bolt are great.  They’re pretty popular; everyone seems to like them.  I don’t see them as math rock, though.  Lighting Bolt, to my mind, is just Lightning Bolt – they’re their own thing.  I think they do probably belong to the math rock lineage, but they seem to have somehow transended it.  It's so subjective.  What kills me about that clip is that the whole song sounds like a big finish, right from the get go. 

Hella, on the other hand is more like my idea of math rock.  They almost seem burdened by their own convoluted time signatures (haha).  Maybe what Tom doesn’t like about Zappa, complexity for the sake of complexity – music that doesn’t go anywhere.  All that Slint stuff – ugh, so plodding. 

I’m not really sure what “noise rock” is, though – maybe Harry Pussy?  I really liked them live in the ‘90’s, awesome drummer, so much energy.

But everything is noise these days.  I’ve even heard Animal Collective get labeled as noise – I just think of them as shit.

Hey, and also, where does post rock fit in? 

[Julie]

if you were trying that hard and not getting it, it was the teacher.

Can this really be said with certainty? For instance--I've been playing guitar for 35 years, and am never going to get past a certain, sadly average level. And it's not for lack of trying, or the lack of competent instruction.

Aren't some people better at things because they are simply better suited to those things (for whatever reasons) and not because they weren't taught well?

Some people are better at some things, but like you said, you can be average. I assume you can also read and write. Math isn't difficult for average people unless some idiot makes it difficult.

[<<<<<]

I think that what gets labeled as 'noise' these days come from such a wide range of influences, it's hard to draw it all under one umbrella (even one as broad as "postpunk").  A lot of these acts draw from wholly disparate threads of music.  Merzbow and Coughs really do not relate to one another at all.  I see a lot of the current crop of American noise, a la the stuff on Load or Skin Graft as being mostly descended almost directly from No Wave.  But it also draws somewhat from Amrep-era noise rock, which was probably more about Flipper-esque punk than No Wave.  Coughs are definitely postpunk in nature, but I would be slow to pin Whitehouse as such.

The fact that Wolf Eyes is not looked upon as highly traditional industrial music says more about how contemporary industrial music has strayed from its roots than the fact that Wolf Eyes is really doing anything new.

[dania]

This discussion about noise vs. experimental vs. electronics vs. industrial vs. postpunk deserves its own thread.  But there probably already is one, right senior FOT's?  Link me please! 
<insert link here>

I think it's all pretty subjective though, based on the dynamics of sound.  If you listen to Pauline Oliveros or Raymond Scott, it's mostly straightforward electronics.  If you delve into the early "noise collages" of the 1930's, 40's, and 50's, (Walter Ruttman being one of my favorites), you might just call that experimental and random.  As for Coughs, I don't know that I'd even consider them noise music.  Merzbow I would definitely consider to be downright noise music.  I'm not sure why, exactly, but I think it has something to do with the random dynamics.  Bands like Coughs, Sunburned Hand of the Man, kk rampage, even Hawkwind, I would consider to all be in the same realm of Ultra-noisy rock.   That's going by my own definition of rock: anything that is beat-driven and/or inclines one to dance or move (or rock, as some might say in olde-times). 
One could also go so far as to say that noise music predates all forms of rock, begining with Igor Stravinsky.  Thoughts on this? 

[Shaggy 2 Grote]

I have got to get a math rock accountant this year.

[<<<<<]

I think Coughs are (were) pretty much a true-to-form contemporary No Wave band.  Pretty sure that Aids Wolf actually claim to be No Wave.  Though this has interesting implications given the similarities between Aids Wolf and Lightning Bolt.  All I know is people are actually bandying about the term No Wave with more seriousness these days than they were 10 years ago, even though noisy bands certainly existed then too.

[Sploops]

Math is boring.  There's no denying that.  If you do deny it, you're delusional.
0123456789 - That all you got?  WEAK.   Numbers are lame.

[kenkwan]

You can't tell me that imaginary numbers aren't interesting!

It's like Sanskrit!

[John Junk]

I think Coughs are (were) pretty much a true-to-form contemporary No Wave band.  Pretty sure that Aids Wolf actually claim to be No Wave.  Though this has interesting implications given the similarities between Aids Wolf and Lightning Bolt.  All I know is people are actually bandying about the term No Wave with more seriousness these days than they were 10 years ago, even though noisy bands certainly existed then too.

[dania]

I don't get it.  Does that mean you're bored again?  If it does it means you're boring (according to Bratmobile)

[fletcher munson]

I think Coughs are (were) pretty much a true-to-form contemporary No Wave band.  Pretty sure that Aids Wolf actually claim to be No Wave.  Though this has interesting implications given the similarities between Aids Wolf and Lightning Bolt.  All I know is people are actually bandying about the term No Wave with more seriousness these days than they were 10 years ago, even though noisy bands certainly existed then too.

all this new "NO Wave" is just too professional AND too ambitious for it's own good...bearing very little resemblance to those classy originals IMHO... it all died with hARRY pUSSY !!  Please no more serious bandying

thank you

[John Junk]

I don't get it.  Does that mean you're bored again?  If it does it means you're boring (according to Bratmobile)

I'm piggybacking on someone else's bored baby.  The first bored baby was bored with math discussion.  My bored baby is bored with math rock talk.  It's not so much that I'm boring as that maybe I shouldn't visit this board 400 times a day (wait, I guess that means I am boring).

[Julie]

You can't tell me that imaginary numbers aren't interesting!

It's like Sanskrit!

I think imaginary numbers are boring. People only think they are interesting because they are called imaginary.

Math is boring.  There's no denying that.  If you do deny it, you're delusional.
0123456789 - That all you got?  WEAK.   Numbers are lame.

I hate everyone who is proud to be ignorant.

[Sploops]

Math is boring.  There's no denying that.  If you do deny it, you're delusional.
0123456789 - That all you got?  WEAK.   Numbers are lame.

I hate everyone who is proud to be ignorant.

I knows my math.  Jus cuz I find it boring don't make me no kinda ignorant.

[dania]

I don't get it.  Does that mean you're bored again?  If it does it means you're boring (according to Bratmobile)

I'm piggybacking on someone else's bored baby.  The first bored baby was bored with math discussion.  My bored baby is bored with math rock talk.  It's not so much that I'm boring as that maybe I shouldn't visit this board 400 times a day (wait, I guess that means I am boring).

Come now, you know that I jest.  I'm probably just as boring as the next guy/gal.  I like boring baby; he/she is cute.