Where is the best place to live in Canada?

[Bryan]

I enjoyed visiting Vancouver, but I think I'd have to live somewhere in Ontario, just so I could see plays at the Shaw Festival and the Stratford Shakespeare Festival, and I'm sure any number of companies around Toronto.  The theatre scene up there is STRONG! (Grote?  yes?)
 

I think there's some good stuff at both the Shaw and Stratford fests, but more and more they're doing cheesy stuff to satisfy the tourists. (See the tv series "Slings & Arrows" for a snapshot of these places.) Toronto has lots of good theatre stuff though. Ottawa has its share, too.

And Winnipeg is the murder/arson capital of Canada. But at least it's close to Brandon: the hog-slaughtering capital of Canada!

[emma]

I might be biased (both my parents are playwright/actors), but I think Toronto has the best theatre scene in Canada. That doesn't mean it's perfect or even uniformly good--there's still way too little funding and people are always complaining and rightly so and blah blah blah, but. We've got the Tarragon, Passe Muraille and Buddies in Bad Times as well as a whole bunch of other small theatre companies for developing new plays and producing and workshopping and etc., and then there's Canstage and Soulpepper and the Mirvishes for the big stuff like, um, the Lord Of The Rings musical and touring productions of Mamma Mia. Shaw and Stratford are hit-and-miss, but there's lots of great theatre in the city.

[Matthew_S]

I am Canadian.  I grew up in Montreal and enjoyed it tremendously.  Of course, we hated Toronto (as does most of the rest of Canada).  I moved down to the USA almost 10 years ago so I may be out of date but...

Toronto is the most American Canadian city.  I think that about says it all.  If you are looking to be in Canada, but don't want too much to change, head to T.  Plus it is huge and sprawling -- like 10-15 million people or so within an hour or two drive, so there is a lot of variety there ... finding your own niche spot may be difficult but you may actually be able to find it (and love it).  Lots of multi-culti fun and a terrible hockey team.

Vancouver is pretty and expensive, comparably.  So much depends on what you are looking for ...

Montreal has the coldest winters, the most snow and the best to offer.  It also has the "problem" of being only about 50% anglophone (native english speakers...).  If you do not know and are unwilling to learn (even the basics of) French, probably not for you.  You can still have a great time but job, culture, life in general will be that much more difficult sans francais

I can go on, but a pm might make more sense, if you have specific questions.

WRT where this thread has veered, Toronto almost certainly has the best theatre scene.  Beyond the massive population, it also is HQ and main focus of Canadian media generally.

[cutout]

Of course, we hated Toronto (as does most of the rest of Canada).

Curious why this is?

[yesno]

Thanks for this thread.  Once Bush is out of office, I'm moving to Canada, so it's been very helpful to me.

[Bryan]

Toronto is the most American Canadian city.  I think that about says it all.  If you are looking to be in Canada, but don't want too much to change, head to T. 

This is a claim that has always confused me. Is it simply that the place is more business-minded? When so much of the rest of Canada is becoming a giant exurb, studded with big box stores (a condition that seems much more "American" to me), the claim has always seemed peculiar.

I've also never figured out why everyone "hates" Toronto, though it is true. Some of it is simply provincialism, certainly. But when it's Montrealers? I'm not sure.

[thecramedog]

West Coast canada is the place to be.  Vancouver is filled with great record stores and lots of cyclists.

[Mason]

Toronto is the most American Canadian city.  I think that about says it all.  If you are looking to be in Canada, but don't want too much to change, head to T. 

I've also never figured out why everyone "hates" Toronto, though it is true. Some of it is simply provincialism, certainly. But when it's Montrealers? I'm not sure.

A lot of the same reasons Americans rag on Los Angeles or New York. It's a cultural and commercial hub of the country and outside communities resent that it gets so much attention. It's a case of municipal inferiority complex. It's also the seat of our provincial government so it's a target of political ire as well.  It's just dumb sibling rivalry. When that hate comes from French Canada, it's because it's seen as the epicenter of the English language culture. It's a common feeling that it is a culture that doesn't care about them and is slowly encroaching on their territory. The feeling is not totally unfounded, although it does reek of xenophobia.

Ottawa gets some of that too, but in our case it's more to do with it being the national capital. Any grievance with the government will get directed at our whole city. As if our shop owners and bike couriers raised the price of gas themselves.

I'm sure in parts of Quebec there's some Montreal haters, but I rarely hear it myself. It may be an influential city, but being french it's automatically viewed as an underdog.

[gravy boat]

Thanks for this thread.  Once Bush is out of office, I'm moving to Canada, so it's been very helpful to me.

ha!

[chrisfoll577]

Toronto is the most American Canadian city.  I think that about says it all.  If you are looking to be in Canada, but don't want too much to change, head to T.  Plus it is huge and sprawling -- like 10-15 million people or so within an hour or two drive, so there is a lot of variety there ... finding your own niche spot may be difficult but you may actually be able to find it (and love it).  Lots of multi-culti fun and a terrible hockey team.

i've heard this claim that toronto is the most american canadian city and it confuses me.  what makes it so american?  is it because it's ethnically diverse like new york? or that it's anglophone as opposed to montreal and quebec? i guess as an american visitor i've always felt at home in toronto (unlike my times in montreal) but it has always struck me as distinctly canadian or even worldly than especially american.

[Phantom Hugger]

Toronto is the most American Canadian city.  I think that about says it all.  If you are looking to be in Canada, but don't want too much to change, head to T.  Plus it is huge and sprawling -- like 10-15 million people or so within an hour or two drive, so there is a lot of variety there ... finding your own niche spot may be difficult but you may actually be able to find it (and love it).  Lots of multi-culti fun and a terrible hockey team.

i've heard this claim that toronto is the most american canadian city and it confuses me.  what makes it so american?  is it because it's ethnically diverse like new york? or that it's anglophone as opposed to montreal and quebec? i guess as an american visitor i've always felt at home in toronto (unlike my times in montreal) but it has always struck me as distinctly canadian or even worldly than especially american.

When Canadians want to insult other Canadians they point out how American they are.

Which is kind of like saying that Canada is more sophisticated than the United States because Earls is better that the Olive Garden.

Kinda true- but nothin' to be proud of, Rusty.

[Matthew_S]

Toronto is the most American Canadian city.  I think that about says it all.  If you are looking to be in Canada, but don't want too much to change, head to T.  Plus it is huge and sprawling -- like 10-15 million people or so within an hour or two drive, so there is a lot of variety there ... finding your own niche spot may be difficult but you may actually be able to find it (and love it).  Lots of multi-culti fun and a terrible hockey team.

i've heard this claim that toronto is the most american canadian city and it confuses me.  what makes it so american?  is it because it's ethnically diverse like new york? or that it's anglophone as opposed to montreal and quebec? i guess as an american visitor i've always felt at home in toronto (unlike my times in montreal) but it has always struck me as distinctly canadian or even worldly than especially american.

Well, we've certainly gone off topic here, but...

Lots to pick up but I'll just ramble a bit.  Yes, there is a bit of provincialism in the Toronto-hatred.  Yes, it is ultimately quite silly.  Yes, even my comment was overstated.  I think it stems, in part, from the fact that Canadians outside of Toronto feel that Torontonians think they are "better" than the non-Torontonians. 
But also, each region of Canada (for those who still care) probably has its own distinct reasons for dislike of Toronto.  And, probably it is generally for Ontario but it gets focused on Toronto.  For example, speaking in broad stereotypical strokes, Alberta is quite right-wing (by Canadian standards).  Ontario/Toronto/federal Canadian government is generally left-leaning so Alberta is upset politically.  Quebec (the province) is bothered by English Canada in general and since Toronto is / holds itself out to be - the 'center' of English Canada, Quebec is upset.  Montreal is upset because Habs fans hate Leafs fans.  But also, again stereotyping, when the shakey Quebec political situation was at its worst, many anglophone Montrealers fled Quebec and most ended up in Toronto... That's enough of that...

As for the 'Americanness' of Toronto... what do I mean.  Personally, it is not an insult per se to be American.  It is simply that Toronto 'feels' the most American of every Canadian city I've visited.  Maybe because it is big and sprawling and ultimately bland (though I'm told by residents that beneath the bland surface lies an interesting core... as I referred to above, you should be able to find a happy niche).  Tangent --- when I am using American here, I do not mean NYC or LA, two mega-cities with oversized personalities.  I mean more the multitude of cities between the coasts where nothing sticks out in particular. 

This is getting very bizarre - we are talking about the personification of a city and it is certainly simplistic and reductive.

http://around-the-world1.blogspot.com/2007/05/lets-all-hate-toronto.html

[Fido]

Not that crime rates are or should be a major determinant of where one should live, but they are interesting statistics.  Macleans recently had an article showing the crime scores (explained by a methodology taking into account many diffferent types of crimes, including breaking and entering, robbery, aggravated assault, car theft, sexual assault and murder) of many Canadian cities. 

Surprisingly to some, the central-western cities of Regina and Saskatoon, Saskatchewan and Winnepeg, Manitoba were the top three cities, meaning that crime rates were the highest. Vancouver was 9th, Montreal 19th, and Toronto was 26th.  What was particularly striking is how the cities at or near the top of the list were overwhelmingly in western Canada.  Halifax, Brantford Ont., Thunder Bay and Montreal were the only cities in the top 20 of this list not located in one of the western or prairie provinces. 

[benadian]

I'm an American who's lived in Toronto the past four years, starting to grow sick of it (also my student visa expires soon.) - I'm hoping to move to Portland in the fall, mostly because it seems to have a better music scene and I'm also just generally curious about the west coast.  Plus I am really really starting to miss plants and stuff.  Would anyone here feel comfortable comparing the two cities?  Is this a wise move or should I just stay here and apply for citizenship?

[Sam]

Toronto's gigantic video screens at major intersections are being installed at a fever pitch.  Brett Butt's head looks excellent when it's several stories large.

The disparity in quality from one neighborhood to another in Toronto means it's easy to love and hate.  I live in a neighbourhood where I have been mugged a few times and where CCTV cameras are installed; my better half lives in a beautiful cluster of Victorian houses and mom-and-pop fruit stands.  Maybe I'm saying whether boho degenerate or violent bum, Toronto has something for everybody?  Or the quality of your stay here is contingent upon the part of the city you stay in (probably obvious, but throwing it out there all the same).

I've heard a number of touring musicians say it is perhaps the greatest city for a musician, as venues abound.  AND Umberto Eco ranks Robards as one of his very favorite libraries in the world.  So if the young men of Billy Talent and the author of Kant and the Platypus: Essays on Language and Cognition (boy, can I tell that that book would make me feel like a Steve-O caliber nitwit) can agree on something, well, sign me up.

If I can perhaps give a suggestion, the message board community (is that a jarring term?) at www.stillepost.ca can give you pertinent details from city to city, or answer a number of particular concerns, &c.  If you move to Toronto, try to make it here for June 20, when the entire city gets the day off and a free screening of our city's favorite son in The Love Guru (which has already won all the major national endowments of the arts, and is expected to clean up at the Genies or Geminis or perhaps both, for all I know).