Author Topic: Naomi Klein smackdown (of, not by)  (Read 11118 times)

John Junk 2.0

  • Guest
Re: Naomi Klein smackdown (of, not by)
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2008, 03:27:01 PM »
The term "Politically Correct" has been dragged through the mud for so long by the right wing and by stuff like South Park that it's hard to remember that there was a period of time where the concept really did have a chilling effect on discourse and it certainly inspired a lot of self censorship that got in the way of actual progressive dialogue.  But now we've had the reactionary "Politically Incorrect and Proud!" stuff for so long it's actually exceeded the era where there really was an arguably oppressive atmosphere that one had to be sensitive to all present and non-present underrepresented groups at all times.  Obama actually seems to be able to diffuse some of those tensions, and that's a good thing.  It would be a shame if some of that stuff came back, because it will only mean even more backlash further down the road.  Americans of every political stripe chafe at being told the proper way to express themselves and the proper way to think.

Trembling Eagle

  • Guest
Re: Naomi Klein smackdown (of, not by)
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2008, 07:35:53 PM »
The term "Politically Correct" has been dragged through the mud for so long by the right wing and by stuff like South Park that it's hard to remember that there was a period of time where the concept really did have a chilling effect on discourse and it certainly inspired a lot of self censorship that got in the way of actual progressive dialogue.  But now we've had the reactionary "Politically Incorrect and Proud!" stuff for so long it's actually exceeded the era where there really was an arguably oppressive atmosphere that one had to be sensitive to all present and non-present underrepresented groups at all times.  Obama actually seems to be able to diffuse some of those tensions, and that's a good thing.  It would be a shame if some of that stuff came back, because it will only mean even more backlash further down the road.  Americans of every political stripe chafe at being told the proper way to express themselves and the proper way to think.

Whatever. I missed that era, probably because it only exists/ed in the heads of certain people. For example: people are "Native" or "First Nation" not fucking Indians, there is a country called India those folks are Indians. It doesn't take much energy to give your fellow human beings the basic respect of addressing them properly.

In 2008 we are STILL having this argument, really? really??

yesno

  • Space Champion!
  • Posts: 3426
Re: Naomi Klein smackdown (of, not by)
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2008, 07:49:09 PM »
Nice of you to decide for people what they're supposed to call themselves.

http://www.aimovement.org/

Trembling Eagle

  • Guest
Re: Naomi Klein smackdown (of, not by)
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2008, 07:56:51 PM »
Nice of you to decide for people what they're supposed to call themselves.

http://www.aimovement.org/


The larger point is I'll call people whatever it is they want to be called without feeling put out about it.

I'm sure you understand that.. I can just feel the NAACP argument coming on
"well they call themselves that" "if there is a BET how come there can't be a WHITE ...."


kill yourself


todd

  • Achilles Tendon Bursitis
  • Posts: 691
Re: Naomi Klein smackdown (of, not by)
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2008, 08:14:12 PM »
Nice of you to decide for people what they're supposed to call themselves.

http://www.aimovement.org/


The larger point is I'll call people whatever it is they want to be called without feeling put out about it.

I'm sure you understand that.. I can just feel the NAACP argument coming on
"well they call themselves that" "if there is a BET how come there can't be a WHITE ...."


kill yourself



quit being a dick, dick

Sarah

  • Guest
Re: Naomi Klein smackdown (of, not by)
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2008, 08:17:43 PM »
I'll say it again:  I like you, TE.

yesno

  • Space Champion!
  • Posts: 3426
Re: Naomi Klein smackdown (of, not by)
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2008, 08:34:23 PM »
Nice of you to decide for people what they're supposed to call themselves.

http://www.aimovement.org/


The larger point is I'll call people whatever it is they want to be called without feeling put out about it.

I'm sure you understand that.. I can just feel the NAACP argument coming on
"well they call themselves that" "if there is a BET how come there can't be a WHITE ...."


kill yourself



I like you TE, too, but that doesn't mean you're not a dumbass.

"Native American" was a term invented by white anthropologists.  There is no "correct" term, though "American Indian" is preferred.

( edit:  this is how I know this: http://www.colorado.edu/Law/clinics/ilc/ )

dave from knoxville

  • Space Champion!
  • Posts: 5108
Re: Naomi Klein smackdown (of, not by)
« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2008, 10:25:33 AM »
Have I ever mentioned that I am a member in good standing of these folks?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creek_people


So what is it you need to know about me and my people?


yesno

  • Space Champion!
  • Posts: 3426
Re: Naomi Klein smackdown (of, not by)
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2008, 01:41:07 PM »

So what is it you need to know about me and my people?


A lot of Raymond M. Smullyan fans among your people?  If you like those logic games you'd ace the LSAT.

Also, this is the single best and most concise essay/response on a bugbear of mine:

http://www.cato-unbound.org/2008/11/10/roderick-long/corporations-versus-the-market-or-whip-conflation-now/

http://www.cato-unbound.org/2008/11/12/matthew-yglesias/politics-compromises-the-libertarian-project/

It's about how it's rubbish that the US economy is described as a "free market" economy.  A "free market" might be good or bad.  Or corporatism might be good or bad.  Who knows.  The point it, they're not the same thing, so criticism of one is not criticism of the other unless you can convincingly show that one *must* lead to the other.  Back to Naomi Klein land the argument would be that just as pure Marxism leads inevitably to Stalinism (but impure Marxism leads to the pleasant vale of social democracy!), pure libertarianism leads inevitably to corporatism.

I really, really, really can't recommend that essay enough.  Since I'm someone who likes business and entrepreneurship but who has been accused of being a raging pinko for failing to support a pro-corporate agenda, it hits close to home.

John Junk 2.0

  • Guest
Re: Naomi Klein smackdown (of, not by)
« Reply #54 on: November 12, 2008, 07:19:59 PM »
The term "Politically Correct" has been dragged through the mud for so long by the right wing and by stuff like South Park that it's hard to remember that there was a period of time where the concept really did have a chilling effect on discourse and it certainly inspired a lot of self censorship that got in the way of actual progressive dialogue.  But now we've had the reactionary "Politically Incorrect and Proud!" stuff for so long it's actually exceeded the era where there really was an arguably oppressive atmosphere that one had to be sensitive to all present and non-present underrepresented groups at all times.  Obama actually seems to be able to diffuse some of those tensions, and that's a good thing.  It would be a shame if some of that stuff came back, because it will only mean even more backlash further down the road.  Americans of every political stripe chafe at being told the proper way to express themselves and the proper way to think.

Whatever. I missed that era, probably because it only exists/ed in the heads of certain people. For example: people are "Native" or "First Nation" not fucking Indians, there is a country called India those folks are Indians. It doesn't take much energy to give your fellow human beings the basic respect of addressing them properly.

In 2008 we are STILL having this argument, really? really??

I'm not really arguing with you.  I don't really respect your opinion.