POLL: General Motors Bailout

[Fido]

Just curious what people think -- forced choice -- up or down, not a question of "how much" or with what conditions attached.

Of course, feel free to comment below.

[wwwes]

Depends on the definition of bailout. I think the government should float them enough to operate for a couple of months, but protecting GM is particularly hard to swallow.

On the other hand, watching these right-wing morons froth at the mouth to bash this company that makes the Hummers, Suburbans and Tahoes they love so much is both satisfying and maddening.

[Andy]

fuck them.

how are they magically supposed to turn this around?  the intervention of the government is supposed to all of the sudden turn these dinosaurs into profitable companies?  when has the interjection of our gov't ever been a good thing, business-wise?  it's not exactly known to be the model of efficiency.

[HaroldBlvd]

Hell yes the government should bail out GM and the other car companies.

Contrary to what most people say, the American car is still the finest in the world. I drive a 97 Saturn SC-2. She's got over 100,000 miles on her and she still runs like new. And she looks great too. Made by UAW workers in Springhill Tenn.

Before that I drove an 83 Honda Prelude. Beautiful car yes, but despite all the rave reviews it got, that car kept breaking down. Problems included the electrical system, the timing belt, the engine itself was replaced.
After that I wanted to try the American made Saturn. Over the last 11 years there have been problems but nothing major.
I have never regretted buying this car and would buy a new one in a heartbeat.
If the American car companies could all build a car like the one I own, they wouldn't have the problems they are having now.

In anycase, the double standard that is held to the big three over the banking institutions is sickening.

[theyellowchair]

Tough pie to slice. I just feel for the little guys, the working-class slobs (in the good sense of the word).

I still vote NO though.

[yesno]

No they shouldn't. Factories don't disappear when companies go bankrupt.

Banks had to be saved because letting the financial system collapse is like letting roads or water or electricity suddenly stop working. The automakers are just companies. Other companies will just make more cars to pick up the slack if need be. 

The focus should be on helping workers who may lose their jobs and ensuring that factories get repurposed.

No one owes those shithead companies anything, and the country doesn't need them either. I do want a Chevy Volt though.

[Jack from Arkansas]

All the automakers are struggling right now.  The reason we should help GM is because it is essentially the lodestone of manufacturing in America.   The loss of all those union jobs would be a huge blow.  In the 1980's, the federal government loaned Lee Iacoca money to bailout Chrysler and he paid back the money with interest.  Don't give up on American auto industry, ladies and gentlemen.  We don't want to be a country that puts all our eggs in the service and healthcare baskets.  

[yesno]

GM going bankrupt doesn't mean that its factories will vanish.  Something actually productive might be done with them. For instance, one of the 8 foreign car makers that build cars in the US, employing around 100,000 people, might buy them.

[Spoony]

Even though it doesn't appeal to my sense of fairness or justice, I have to side with the bailout.

If those companies tank, then the repercussions would be terrible. Even beyond the layoff in their own backyard, the automotive industry's money props up most of the other US industries out there.

For instance, if they cut their advertising budget, that means media, art foundations, television networks, and publications will have their knees kicked out from beneath them (worse then they already are), and will have to start laying more people off. Most of everyone on this forum is a creative of some kind and that means we'll have the hardest time finding work.

That having been said, I think a bailout should definitely have a sunset attached to it. If, by a certain time, it doesn't look like the money's helping, then it would be time to turn off the tap.

[HaroldBlvd]

Good gosh. Where is everyone's national pride? The USA, Detroit, Mo Town. Hello? This stuff should be hard wired into all of you.
Detroit makes great cars, they've made some legendary cars, they should be saved. The US car companies are as much a part of our American life as WFMU and The Best Show.

You know, every year WFMU comes around with it's hand out asking for help. We don't turn away asking why they can't turn a profit?
We help them out. Same thing with the car companies.

If you can stand to see the companies that produced the Mustang, The Thunderbird, The GTO, The Corvette, The Barracuda, The Imperial (The Green Hornet based his Black Beauty on this car), The Charger, yes even the Duster and the Dart, just go out of business, than I think it's a sad day for America.

Canada doesn't mind bailing the American factories on their side of the border. Nor does Germany or Japan have a problem supporting their own manufacturers.

We need to help out Detroit. They were there for us. They have made great cars and they've made us the envy of the world. We should be there for them.

And all you naysayers might want to pony up and buy a fine American automobile.

Keep this in mind. If the Bush Administration had mandated CAFE standards instead of giving corporations a free ride American car companies would have been forced to build cars that whole world would want to buy.

Of course the real issue here is that our car companies have to cover the cost of health care of their workers. Something they do not have to do in Canada, England, Korea, Germany, or Japan. Those health cost are built right into the sticker price of each car Detroit rolls out.

If all those right wing pin head senators really were serious about making Detroit competitive, they'd be introducing universal health care bills. But that's not what this is all about, is it? It's all about busting the UAW and with it organized labor in the USA.
The whole thing stinks and it is un American.

[yesno]

I have a Saturn and it's a chintzy piece of garbage. 

[HaroldBlvd]

Year and model plz.

[break]

Contrary to what most people say, the American car is still the finest in the world. I drive a 97 Saturn SC-2. She's got over 100,000 miles on her and she still runs like new. And she looks great too. Made by UAW workers in Springhill Tenn.

Glad you've had a good experience, when I found out my '96 SW1 had a cracked cylinder head due to casting flaws known and hidden by general motors I kind of lost my enthusiasm for the brand.  Google "saturn cracked head" to see all the happy saturn owners.  Too bad, I enjoyed the car otherwise but thankfully we kept my wifes Geo Prizm instead which has been bulletproof.  Now there's a GM product to get behind, one designed by Toyota.    

My dad works on the assembly line at GM, and I worked there briefly.  I saw a lot of good people working hard, as well as a lot of people feeling entitled to the benefits of the job without doing any work.  The problem I saw was the union defending both groups of people in equal measure.  At the same time, I worked in a GE assembly plant for a few years and saw the exploitative efforts of management on a workforce with a weaker union so I can appreciate what the UAW does on the whole.  I think the companies are worth saving but upper management should be cleaned out and labor needs to make some concessions.  

[SJK]

This is the point,

If all those right wing pin head senators really were serious about making Detroit competitive, they'd be introducing universal health care bills. But that's not what this is all about, is it? It's all about busting the UAW and with it organized labor in the USA.
The whole thing stinks...

...no matter where you come down on quality of American made cars or wether the big three should be bailed out...not to mention environmental concerns and speculative oil prices scaring the s*#t out of consumers...no kidding they can't move vehicles like they did in the past. It's time to invest in public transport systems and alternative renewable energy resources.

[yesno]

Year and model plz.

2003 Ion.  I bought it new and it had several recalls and defects.  Now I'm just irritated by the shoddy quality of everything.  Cheap plastic.

I don't intend to ever buy another car until I am forced to, though.  I hate cars.