Author Topic: Who is John Galt?  (Read 9753 times)

effecT

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2011, 01:54:38 PM »


On the other hand, years of experience tell me that I'm about the most economically conservative member of this board (which ain't sayin' a lot), so I don't utterly reject ALL of the stuff Rand talks about as easily as some of you seem to.  I've heard firsthand some of the bad and weird anti-capitalist, "you don't deserve to be able to earn the money you do" stuff that she wrote about coming out of people's mouths, and it's distressing to those of us who kind of do think we deserve to be able to earn the money we do.
As a student of economics i have come across a lot of libertarian fringe stuff.
I have read Rand, Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich von Hayek, Murray Rothbard and so on. I can say that all of it is considered bullshit in the economics profession nowadays with just a couple of people like Ron Paul and John Stossel holding on to Austrian Economics and so on. I have also debated Austrian economists and objectivists and anarcho-capitalists on youtube. There is no getting through to them with actual economic arguments and it is as a bad an ideology as communism. Ideologists are never interested in the actual solutions of complex problems but can only provide the "answer" they can derive from the framework. Their solutions never work as has been seen in the Soviet Union and likewise in Thatcher-Britain.

Since Rand was mainly a philosopher i can only judge her on her philosophical merits, which weren't really great. She rejected Kant as a defiler of philosophy and corrupter of ethics, metaphysics and so forth. To that i can only say that i read Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason" quite a bit and can answer her: Only because you don't like it does not mean it is wrong.

Also her main point was ethics and since i reject moral claims as false in general, i do not see a point in her philosophy at all.
 
Just a side note:
I really do like to read Rand's stuff about Hippies. She gets so angry at Hippies.  :D

Keith Whitener

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2011, 02:00:02 PM »
I have also debated Austrian economists and objectivists and anarcho-capitalists on youtube.

What do you mean by this?

Christina

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2011, 02:06:12 PM »
At least they're not adapting We the Living.

Ugh.
Remember how he couldn't stop his leg?

effecT

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2011, 02:25:49 PM »
I have also debated Austrian economists and objectivists and anarcho-capitalists on youtube.

What do you mean by this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_(Ayn_Rand)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_economics

Those are simply somewhat overlapping economic and political and philosophical ideologies, who happen to have some proponents on youtube, who i have had exchanges with. They are pretty close in the political spectrum.

Keith Whitener

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2011, 02:46:53 PM »
I meant more about the exchanges. Do you mean actual youtube videos or in comments?

effecT

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2011, 02:58:21 PM »
I meant more about the exchanges. Do you mean actual youtube videos or in comments?
I made some videos about market failure through monopoly to one of them.
I made a video about the cost benefit analysis of a free-market justice system.
I made a video about Isaiah Berlin's "Two Concepts of Liberty".
I made several videos about health-care and it's game theoretic implications.
And i got blocked from several channels for comments containing "mainstream" economics, especially keynesianism.

buffcoat

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2011, 03:00:34 PM »
I've now lived long enough to see "everyone" be both Keynesians and Friedmanites.  They can't both be right.

Apologies given to anyone "in the field" who takes offense, but the whole profession needs to constantly be reminded that economics is a social science and not a hard science.  And the hard sciences are fudgable enough (witness the fact that nearly everything I learned about a] planets and b] dinosaurs when I was growing up is now presumed to be wrong, including the very existence of one of the most famous dinosaurs of all time, basic facts like their blood temperature type, and the likely cause of their demise.  Thanks, guys.).

I distrust both pure ideologies and appeal-to-experts dismissals of those ideologies.  Human behavior is messy.  Unless you're ready to make a reductio ad absurdum argument, you won't convince me that "all human behavior" is either rational or economic.  You want to have a lousy conversation?  Mention the word "altruism" to somebody presently studying economics.  It's topped only by asking a first year psych student to name the conditions they suffer from.

If anything appeals to me about Atlas Shrugged, it's not the nutty philosophy, the anti-human prescriptions or the stilted writing: it's the needed (and unfortunately also driven into the ground) reminder that "I know better than you" is always a slippery slope.

That said, anyone who can actually read the 46 pages of John Galt's radio address restating what's already been stated hundreds of times before in the 1,000 page novel has way more patience than I do.


Christina: The "love scenes" in The Fountainhead are pretty messed up for the time it was produced.   How did that thing ever make it past the Motion Picture Review Board?

I really don't appreciate your sarcastic, anti-comedy tone, Bro!

Christina

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2011, 05:16:29 PM »
That said, anyone who can actually read the 46 pages of John Galt's radio address restating what's already been stated hundreds of times before in the 1,000 page novel has way more patience than I do.


Christina: The "love scenes" in The Fountainhead are pretty messed up for the time it was produced.   How did that thing ever make it past the Motion Picture Review Board?

I read that whole fucking thing - also read all of Howard Roark's defense speech.

Yeah, those scenes are bad - worse in the book, obvs.
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Shaggy 2 Grote

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2011, 08:55:07 AM »
I meant more about the exchanges. Do you mean actual youtube videos or in comments?
I made some videos about market failure through monopoly to one of them.
I made a video about the cost benefit analysis of a free-market justice system.
I made a video about Isaiah Berlin's "Two Concepts of Liberty".
I made several videos about health-care and it's game theoretic implications.
And i got blocked from several channels for comments containing "mainstream" economics, especially keynesianism.


Links, man, links.
Oh, good heavens. I didn’t realize. I send my condolences out to the rest of the O’Connor family.

effecT

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2011, 11:31:17 AM »
I meant more about the exchanges. Do you mean actual youtube videos or in comments?
I made some videos about market failure through monopoly to one of them.
I made a video about the cost benefit analysis of a free-market justice system.
I made a video about Isaiah Berlin's "Two Concepts of Liberty".
I made several videos about health-care and it's game theoretic implications.
And i got blocked from several channels for comments containing "mainstream" economics, especially keynesianism.


Links, man, links.
here's mah channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Noobwarriking

although i have to add:
much of the videos are old and i maybe do not even agree with them that strongly anymore
so take it with a heap of salt

Ojingeo

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2011, 01:14:22 AM »
A friend of mine and I slogged through the nightmare that is Atlas Shrugged and documented our experience on a blog.

Here is a post where I compare the Church of Satan to Objectivism: http://arrrrrrgh.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/atlas-shrugged-the-most-awfulest-book-ever-written-is-more-satanic-than-satan/

I do love some of the comments on the site. Most comments either questioned my sanity, my intelligence and sometimes both. I had at least one person tell me to kill myself.

Atlas Shrugged ruined reading for me for quite awhile. Every sentence is an insult to the language. It is a teddybear book for kids who feel like they have no friends in the world. And the sad thing is there are people in my life whom I care for deeply who love that book.

As Tom has said: It's grown up time. We have to realize we live in a world with other people. Some of them are not able to take care of themselves.

That being said, the trailer makes the movie seem not so bad. But I thought that about The Phantom Menace too.
I can hear you judging me.

Keith Whitener

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2011, 08:08:33 AM »
You mean if it was all Senate stuff, right?

Christina

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2011, 06:55:09 AM »
I'm taking back everything I said. I'm excited for a two part movie about choo choo trains!
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Pat

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2011, 08:50:56 AM »
I went to a sort of conservative school that had a top business program and would walk by a car quite often that had "JHNGLT" as its license plate number.

I JUST SAW THIS

gravy boat

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Re: Who is John Galt?
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2011, 10:07:24 AM »

As a student of economics i have come across a lot of libertarian fringe stuff.
I have read Rand, Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich von Hayek, Murray Rothbard and so on. I can say that all of it is considered bullshit in the economics profession nowadays with just a couple of people like Ron Paul and John Stossel holding on to Austrian Economics and so on.

But she did and probably still is responsible for real economic damage.  Greenspan, who was some sort of nuts about Rand, endorsed the hands-off financial regulatory system caused so much damage over the last 3-4 years.  Greenspan--some freakin' genius.