The Wrestling Thread

[Eric Fishlegs]

I went to Raw last night with my friend Mike, who was gifted free tickets at his job.

I kind of think everyone at some point in time should see wrestling live, in particular Raw. The production values are so insane. It kills any big rock show or sporting event I've ever been to. You never quite feel like you're watching a television show -- they have things planned out during the breaks to keep the crowd invested, etc.

The show itself was really good. I love CM Punk to an unhealthy degree and also really like Daniel Bryan since the show was largely about him. Zach Ryder is ridiculously popular. I thought he was an alright comedy act but they really have something with him. He's a lovable goofball who loves wrestling the same way the fans do and it shows. I'm not sure exactly what it is because I can't remember a comedy act wrestler getting over like he has but he was an absolute star. It was a great touch to have these guys coming in from the crowd during the main event that the Philly crowd ate up.

I was really surprised by Cena in person. I love the reactions that he gets but last night was a weird mix. It was mostly overall boos (no surprise in Philly) but a lot of it felt like "Please Just Go Away" more than "We Hate You And Want To See You Killed."

I almost splurged on the CM Punk "Best In The World" T-Shirt which is the only wrestling shirt I actually would ever wear in public, save for the ECF'NW shirt which was mandatory in Philadelphia from the years 1995 to 1999. But it was $30 and there's no way I could look my wife in the eye and tell her I spent $30 on a wrestling t-shirt. But, yes, I am kicking myself.

I was definitely the only person in attendance wearing clothing from Jos. A. Bank there since I went straight from work.

The best part of the show was going w/ my friend Mike. I go way back with him but he got married and just had a kid and now lives in the suburbs so I never see him. We used to go see ECW and watch wrestling on Monday nights pretty regularly back in college. It's weird feeling sentimental about wrestling but I did!

Anyways, last night was a total blast. If you ever get a chance to see Raw in person you have to do it.

Daniel Bryan and CM Punk- have they earned their beards? I say it's a definite yes, though if you go by Tom's controversial ruling on Mick Foley's beard you would have to say no.

I can't quite make up my mind about Zack Ryder- his videos are cute and all, but I'm just not into him as a wrestler. I also found Cena's blatant kissing up to him a few weeks back to be kinda ridiculous and was the moment when I officially became anti-Cena.

[stephen]

Daniel Bryan and CM Punk- have they earned their beards? I say it's a definite yes, though if you go by Tom's controversial ruling on Mick Foley's beard you would have to say no.

I can't quite make up my mind about Zack Ryder- his videos are cute and all, but I'm just not into him as a wrestler. I also found Cena's blatant kissing up to him a few weeks back to be kinda ridiculous and was the moment when I officially became anti-Cena.
[/quote]

In all fairness, didn't Tom eventually say he didn't know enough about wrestling to determine whether or not Foley earned his beard?  Also, I'm a huge fan of Mick Foley and I'd define his beard as a "Slob's Beard" or as a "Sloppy Beard".  He certainly earned that beard though and is a perfect example of Slobs defeating the Snobs.

I'll refrain from the Ryder discussion right now because I worry that if I get started, I'll end up writing a 5 page essay about WWE Creative's treatment of the guy and how that relates to their current embracing of social media as well as their inability to understand or capitalize on popularity that they didn't generate themselves. 

Also, are you saying that the moment you became officially anti-Cena was when he gave up his title shot at TLC to let Ryder get a shot at the US title?  I thought that this was a totally smart thing for them to do in theory but they didn't really handle it well at all.  I think it made Ryder look like a dickhead that he complained so much after the clean loss, and Cena giving up his WWE title match totally made sense in this situation since he'd only be one of 4 guys in a super dangerous match that doesn't fit his style at all.  They could have put over the strengths of Punk, Del Rio, and Miz, while also putting over the danger of a TLC match and possibly made more money if handled right, but instead they just kind of made Ryder look like a jerk and Mark Henry look like a chump, while Cena still looked like a super hero by only needing to do his one big move to cost Henry the match against a pretty weak opponent.  But for what it's worth, Cena is a Ryder fan in real life too.

[wood and iron]

I was finishing up my Christmas shopping at the local crappy shopping mall and noticed a sign and folding table advertising Ted DiBiase and Virgil. I saw Virgil talking to two younger gentlemen but no Million Dollar Man in sight. I did see the gold dollar bill belt.

[Greggulator]

THINGS IN WRESTLING WHICH ARE AWESOME RIGHT NOW:

Heel Champion Daniel Bryan being the best weasel in years. His stuff on Raw running down The Big Show for hurting AJ was gold. He's such a whiny, conniving jerk!

Broadus Clay, the next big breakout star. The crowd is already screaming "MY BAD" before he does moves. He's a comedy guy who actually has potential as a legit champ type one day because of his size. His Dusty Rhodes influence is pretty clear and an awesome guy to bite off of.

Chris Jericho, trolling the audience without saying an actual word.

CM Punk, naturally. I love that Punk's gimmick is essentially Jello Biafra. Everyone in power gets questioned and antagonized, which is what every 90s fanzine handed out at shows at the Coney Island High taught us. And it's great because Lauranitis is turning because of Punk being such a shit-starter. Lauranitis conned his way into the position and hung out with the heels but wasn't so one-sided against them. But now he wants to screw Punk because Punk keeps challenging his authority, thus proving Punk's complaints right all along.

[Eric Fishlegs]

THINGS IN WRESTLING WHICH ARE AWESOME RIGHT NOW:

Heel Champion Daniel Bryan being the best weasel in years. His stuff on Raw running down The Big Show for hurting AJ was gold. He's such a whiny, conniving jerk!

Broadus Clay, the next big breakout star. The crowd is already screaming "MY BAD" before he does moves. He's a comedy guy who actually has potential as a legit champ type one day because of his size. His Dusty Rhodes influence is pretty clear and an awesome guy to bite off of.

Chris Jericho, trolling the audience without saying an actual word.

CM Punk, naturally. I love that Punk's gimmick is essentially Jello Biafra. Everyone in power gets questioned and antagonized, which is what every 90s fanzine handed out at shows at the Coney Island High taught us. And it's great because Lauranitis is turning because of Punk being such a shit-starter. Lauranitis conned his way into the position and hung out with the heels but wasn't so one-sided against them. But now he wants to screw Punk because Punk keeps challenging his authority, thus proving Punk's complaints right all along.

Spoiler from Daniel Bryan's promo on  this week's SmackDown-
" He said he's not scared of anyone and A.J. said she loved him, which nobody has ever said to him before..and that he's "highly fond of her, as well."


The key to both Bryan and Jericho is that they've both been relatively subtle (at least as far as wrestling storylines go which are about as subtle as SONS OF ANARCHY.) Bryan's turn started  when he cashed in his MitB briefcase when he said he was waiting until Mania which I remember actually had internet fans wondering why they were trying to make him look so heelish.. It's because they were planting the seeds for his heel turn.

Jericho just cracks me up. I love that he's getting heel heat without having to say a word. And his light up jacket rules.

I'm actually liking Laurenitis' role in the Punk feud. He comes across as such a middle management weasel. It's almost a punk version of the Austin-Vince feud. Punk should actually produce a anti-Laurenitis fanzine. The ammount of people who would "get it" would be relatively few, but those few would think it was awesome.

[davidgoeschatting]

THINGS IN WRESTLING WHICH ARE AWESOME RIGHT NOW:

Heel Champion Daniel Bryan being the best weasel in years. His stuff on Raw running down The Big Show for hurting AJ was gold. He's such a whiny, conniving jerk!

Broadus Clay, the next big breakout star. The crowd is already screaming "MY BAD" before he does moves. He's a comedy guy who actually has potential as a legit champ type one day because of his size. His Dusty Rhodes influence is pretty clear and an awesome guy to bite off of.

Chris Jericho, trolling the audience without saying an actual word.

CM Punk, naturally. I love that Punk's gimmick is essentially Jello Biafra. Everyone in power gets questioned and antagonized, which is what every 90s fanzine handed out at shows at the Coney Island High taught us. And it's great because Lauranitis is turning because of Punk being such a shit-starter. Lauranitis conned his way into the position and hung out with the heels but wasn't so one-sided against them. But now he wants to screw Punk because Punk keeps challenging his authority, thus proving Punk's complaints right all along.

Do you see Bryan keeping the title until WM28? I actually enjoyed Henry's monster heel title run and thought it kinda brought a dimension of legitimacy to the title that it had been missing for a while, i.e. you really need to know what you're doing in the ring to beat the champ. I do love Bryan as champ, and it's been so great seeing him and Punk as the top 2 guys (which I got to see live in Anaheim this week). The cashing in of the briefcase is making more and more sense to me; at first, I was so upset because it seemed like cashing it in at WM28 was just another thing WWE couldn't wait to do, so they rushed a title reign. I'm just not sure where this thing is going with Big Show. I suppose with the huge main event that's already set up and a possible Punk/Jericho double mainy might take pressure off WWE to produce yet another huge title match. Anyhow...predictions?

[stephen]

I think Bryan will hold it until Elimination Chamber, but considering the magnitude of Cena v Rock, a potential Taker match, Punk v Jericho (or whatever the WWE title match ends up being), and the rumored Big Show v Shaq matches, it wouldn't be a surprise to see him as champion at Mania, especially since the World Title match between Edge and Del Rio was such an afterthought last year.

[Eric Fishlegs]

My gut tells me he loses at Elimination Chamber, but it is true that the SmackDown title is enough enough of an afterthought and they might have enough planned that Bryan losing might sort of get put on the backburner until it's too late.  It's hard to tell how much faith they have in Bryan. Do they see him as the real deal or do they view him as the guy who gets to hold the belt until Orton comes back?

[Racan]

I feel like WWE needs to capitalize on CM Punk as champion and straight-edge superstar with a "punk 'n' wrestling" crossover. Imagine seeing groups like Fear, the Descendents, and the Adolescents ushering in a whole new series of punked up masters of the squared circle.

I think an interesting angle would be rival New York and London punk stables, just like the mid to late 1970s rivalry between groups like the Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads and the Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks, and the Damned. The WWE could get William Regal and Wade Barrett to run the London stable, while Zach Ryder could head up the New York equivalent. If anything is going to win over the 'Pitchfork generation' to the carnival entertainment of wrestling, it's this.

[Chris L]

I feel like WWE needs to capitalize on CM Punk as champion and straight-edge superstar with a "punk 'n' wrestling" crossover. Imagine seeing groups like Fear, the Descendents, and the Adolescents ushering in a whole new series of punked up masters of the squared circle.

I think an interesting angle would be rival New York and London punk stables, just like the mid to late 1970s rivalry between groups like the Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads and the Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks, and the Damned. The WWE could get William Regal and Wade Barrett to run the London stable, while Zach Ryder could head up the New York equivalent. If anything is going to win over the 'Pitchfork generation' to the carnival entertainment of wrestling, it's this.

Actually, the way to win over the 'Pitchfork generation' might be to have everyone wrestle in American Apparel and bring in Georgio the Human Carpet as a manager.

[Wes]

I feel like WWE needs to capitalize on CM Punk as champion and straight-edge superstar with a "punk 'n' wrestling" crossover. Imagine seeing groups like Fear, the Descendents, and the Adolescents ushering in a whole new series of punked up masters of the squared circle.

I think an interesting angle would be rival New York and London punk stables, just like the mid to late 1970s rivalry between groups like the Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads and the Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks, and the Damned. The WWE could get William Regal and Wade Barrett to run the London stable, while Zach Ryder could head up the New York equivalent. If anything is going to win over the 'Pitchfork generation' to the carnival entertainment of wrestling, it's this.

Actually, the way to win over the 'Pitchfork generation' might be to have everyone wrestle in American Apparel and bring in Georgio the Human Carpet as a manager.

They could revisit the old bit where King Kong Bundy would demand a five count instead of just the standard three count whenever he pinned somebody, but this time, the guy would demand a 6.8 count.

[Racan]

Both great ideas. I'd love to see the Human Carpet slyly trip up his wrestler's opponents during matches. If we're going with Pitchfork style ratings as pin counts, would an 8.5 or higher earn you 'best new wrestler' status?

[Greggulator]

I think an evil hipster character would be the absolute best way to go. Daniel Bryan's friends with Kimya Dawson (who designs his t-shirts) so he's right there. He's also vegan. Imagine if Beat Happening (or, even better, MIT HAMINE!) recorded his theme music? That's insant heel heat to the Monster-drinking crowd which populates the WWE fanbase. But even better, it could usher in a whole new genre of hipster fans who would be attracted to wrestling ironically while having figures who serve as avatars for the natural Pitchfork-fan smugness who would then pretend to hate their hero.

CM Punk's already got the punk fans. I saw two "Best In The World" shirts at Riot Fest Philly. Bryan can go after the vegan indie/twee crowd. Wade Barrett has a tattoo which quotes Manic Street Preachers lyrics and also constantly talks up the Stone Roses, the Smiths and Elvis C. on Twitter. So he's a natural elite Brit-pop heel.

If they formed a hipster alliance, it'd be awesome if Wade literally stole the title from Daniel Bryan in homage to The Libertines' break-up.

Naturally, the stable should be called Animal Collective.

[Eric Fishlegs]

Captain Lou (Featuring Aesop Rock) - Kimya Dawson

Daniel Bryan singing back-up on a Kimya Dawson song.

Sort of on topic- has CM Punk ever had a proper punk song as his entrance music in the WWE? Much as I like "Cult of Personality" it seems like any number of punk bands would jump at the chance to record a theme for CM Punk.

[Racan]

Fantastic! It's difficult for me to handle the thought of anything legitimizing Mit Hamine, though. Zach's recent calls, where he's shamelessly referred to his own songs as 'spectacular', as if he's somehow able to provide an objective opinion of his music, just about pushed me over the edge. That having been said, I'd love to see a backstage brawl at a 'live/work studio' or 'art collective'. Maybe the WWE could even create a new gimmick in the form of a baba ghanoush match? "The following match is for the WWTwee Championship."

Love the idea of the Animal Collective. I think it'd be amazing if on knocking out an opponent they took an absurd amount of time to meticulously silkscreen their logo onto his chest, sort of like the nWo and their spray paint cans back in the 90s.