The Wrestling Thread

[Kormod]

Greggulator: What's your take on ECW? While it went to the dogs once all the talent defected to the Big Two, it had a great run from 1995-1998. Paul Heyman offered a viable third choice and at one point his promotion was so successful that they were able to do pay-per-views and hold shows in venues other than bingo halls. While their main draw was their "extreme" wrestling, they had some great technical matches and during their peak featured a lot of guys who eventually went on to do big things -- a typical card might have included Dean Malenko, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn, Brian Pillman, and Chris Jericho. It was a promotion aimed at people who were "in the know," and their storylines were more sophisticated (admittedly, I use the word loosely) than those of the Big Two and sometimes dealt with the inner workings of the wrestling business. Their golden age was, I think, better than the stuff WWF and WCW were airing during that same period. When they rebranded themselves in '97-98, WWF stole a lot of ECW's gimmicks and storylines (see "Attitude Era").

Some thoughts on ECW:

-- Bragging about getting ready to defect to the Big Two was always a go-to angle for heels. I remember one match where Cactus Jack took off his shirt, revealing another shirt underneath it, which had Eric Bischoff's face on it with the words "I LOVE YOU ERIC" printed below it. The crowd was furious. 

-- New Jack. Simply did not know how to wrestle. It was painful to watch this guy try to do a DDT. Most of his matches took place in the crowd and his finishing move was jumping off a balcony onto his opponent. Got in a massive amount of trouble for blading (a common practice in wrestling: the wrestler surreptitiously cuts himself with a razor to cause himself to bleed) an opponent who turned out to be underage.

-- Sabu. Gimmick: mysterious Middle Eastern man who spoke no English. Another wrestler who was basically a glorified stuntman. He actually knew how to perform some wrestling moves, but only hi-flier stuff like moonsaults. Participated in several barbed wire matches with Cactus Jack and Terry Funk, in one of which he was bleeding so badly the match had to be stopped. It was sad to see him get lost in the shuffle after ECW merged with WWF. Years after ECW went out of business, I was disappointed to find out that he actually knew English and had grown up in Michigan.

-- 911. Very tall guy who had a mullet and always wore a leather jacket. Would do run-ins at random in which he'd chokeslam everyone who happened to be in the ring at the time. From what I remember, the run-ins would have no relation to any storyline. I'm not sure he ever formally participated in any matches.

-- In a match between Terry Funk and Cactus Jack, Funk broke the chair he was hitting Cactus Jack over the head with. He called out for another chair. Everyone in the audience proceeded to throw chairs into the ring for about a minute, burying Jack and Funk. One of the best moments in wrestling history (video below).

Classic ECW Moment 1:Terry Funk Needs A Chair

[Greggulator]

In 1994/1995, I was a senior in high school. I was getting kind of sick of a decent amount of my friends -- they were all kind of preppy, honors students really concerned with SAT prep classes. I was kind of their token weirdo. They also listened to music that I came around to thinking was dreadful -- The Doors, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, etc.

But I had another group of friends that I started to hang out with more -- the skater kids that everyone thought were total druggies or whatever. These guys were more like me -- well-meaning screw-ups who liked doing things like throwing eggs at kids from other towns. And they also introduced me to bands like Minor Threat and The Descendents and Black Flag, and then we started going to the local North Jersey DIY punk shows where I got to see Weston and Less than Jake and the Bouncing Souls and Lifetime and Chisel and the like.

In 1994/1995, pro wrestling was at its absolute worst. The WWF was being dominated by Kevin Nash and The Undertaker and Sid Vicious -- all three big, giant stiffs -- and had evil dentists and "prideful" Native Americans amongst the lesser characters. Hulk Hogan was in WCW and was just the absolute worst -- he didn't turn heel yet and his stuff was as terrible as you'd think, brutha.

I found out about ECW through a wrestling newsgroup. I found out that it was on some low-rent cable channel in North Jersey. The first match I saw involved Sabu -- diving through the ropes into the crowd, laying people out on tables, etc. Then I saw The Sandman beat the hell out of someone with a Signapore Cane and a whole bunch of other things.

It might seem like a bit of a stretch of a metaphor -- but discovering ECW was pretty much like discovering punk and indie music.

I would be lying if I said that watching ECW in person wasn't a reason why I went to college in Philly. I saw ECW probably 25-30 times in person. Just the most insane, frightening, awesome stuff.

Aesthetically: You are are completely right. 1994-1999 ECW was just off-the-charts amazing. They introduced so many awesome wrestlers to the US -- guys who were great in Japan and Mexico but wouldn't get a chance in the WWF or WCW since they weren't  bodybuilders. On top of the hardcore violent stuff, they also had some of the best "technical" wrestlers who ever lived. They gave Chris benoit his first big push. They gave Eddie GUerrero and Dean Malenko their first chances. They pushed Chris Jericho and Lance Storm. They introduced Rey Mysterio to the states.

They also briefly had Steve Austin. Austin was always pretty good in WCW as a kind of Ric Flair type. But they let him just go crazy on the microphone and it was mindblowing. He then went to the WWF and jumped from that character in ECW and became the biggest star in wretsling history, arguably.

ECW was just the best thing to happen in wrestling. The best storylines. They actually used somewhat cool music (they used to use Pavement and Beck for ring entrance music). Amazing characteres. And, at its best, it had the most piece-of-crap production values possible. It lost its flavor when its homegrown stars went to the big leagues and they tried to up their production values.

But going to see ECW was one of the most formative experiences of my high school and college years. My preppy friends -- all of them looked down on me for liking wrestling and then shaving my head and shopping and thrift stores. But my punk friends went to ECW and loved it. And, today, I'm going to the wedding of one of these guys and I guarantee we'll talk about ECW.

[dave from knoxville]

Wrestling was simpler when I was a boy. If you don't watch much of this, at least forward to about 1:15 and give Jackie Fargo a chance to show you his patented strut. Tojo's gimmick was to pull out a wooden shoe and beat someone to a pulp with it, but I don't think it shows up in this clip.

Jackie Fargo & Tojo Yamamoto vs Phil Hickerson & Big Al Greene.wmv

[Eric Fishlegs]

I don't know the back story on these IPW promos, but there are a bunch of them on YouTube.   Here is a sample of my favorites.

Best Wrestling Promo Ever

IPW - Richie Rouge Can't Sqush An Apple

IPW - Tony the Spider Speaks!

For some reason I found myself watching these clips over WrestleMania weekend and while I liked them because they were bad I also found them kind of endearing. Here are guys who lack the size, skill, charisma, and talent to be wrestlers but they're not letting that stop them. I don't even mean that in a mean or ironic way- in 40 years Jumpin'Jeff farmer and Tony the Spider will be able to look back at their days as professional wrestlers. They had more success at than a lot of folks.


R

[Eric Fishlegs]

PPW - Doug Gilbert shoot featuring Brian Christopher, Spellbinder, and Tommy Rich (full) - Part 2

This Doug Gilbert promo just makes me laugh. It has the best ending ever.

Crazy Japanese Wrestling With Invisible Opponent

And this here is wacky Japanese wrestling at it's wackiest.

THE GREATEST THING EVER!

But sometimes wrestling is at it's best when it's just two weird dudes yelling at each other.

And any wrestling fan here would likely enjoy Colt Cabana's podcast at- http://tsmradio.com/coltcabana/  He interviewsa variety of wrestlers. Mostly indy guys, but he also has had on CM Punk and Evan Bourne. The one with Cassandro is especially good even though I'd never heard of ther guybefore.

I could pretty much spend my whole day finding and posting wrestling video links but I'll spare you for now.

[Greggulator]

NOTES:

1) The aforementioned wedding I was at featured a brief "Fargo Strut" contest.

2) I don't know a thing about the IPW stuff but I agree -- it's the same thing as guys in a crappy garage band just having fun that can have some laughs about this one day.

3) That Doug Gilbert interview is the stuff of legend. Doug Gilbert is the incredibly seedy younger brother of "Hot Stuff" Eddie Gilbert, a boyhood hero of mine mentioned above. Dougie had some sort of contract dispute or perceived slight against the guy running Memphis wrestling at the time (who was in business cahoots with Jerry Lawler) and decided to burn that bridge. Lawler actually was charged with statutory rape right around then (charges were dropped) so that hurt. I'm pretty sure Dougie was right back in that promotion about five weeks later, despite claiming the owner smoked crack (which was, to be fair, probably true).

4) Colt's podcast is indeed awesome. He also does some stand-up comedy. He performed at a show I hosted that was a comedy tribute to pro wrestling last year -- he's a really great guy and super funny. He was briefly in the WWE and never got a chance to show his stuff.

[Greggulator]

You want some insane Japanese wrestling? Check out SATIAMA PRO!

Satiama is a prefecture right outside of Tokyo -- sort of like Japan's North Jersey/Long Island. Satiama Pro is a homegrown wrestling promotion in Japan -- so homegrown, in fact, that it is held in the local elementary school gym and the ring is actually just a few mats. The hero is SURVIVAL TOBITA -- a local hero who is really into Japanese garage rock. The villains are a series of monsters who wish to do harm to the Satiama community.

His greatest rival: Mokujin Ken, aka Ken The Box. Mokujin Ken is based off a character from Mortal Kombat or one of those games. His backstory: the suburbs of Tokyo are becoming more sprawling and he's a tree that came to life to fight against suburban deforestization.

Here is the match that follows. It's one of the absolute best things ever:

Survival Tobita vs Mokujin Ken SPWC 23.08.1999

Also: Here's Survival Tobita's poster!

[Eric Fishlegs]

NOTES:


4) Colt's podcast is indeed awesome. He also does some stand-up comedy. He performed at a show I hosted that was a comedy tribute to pro wrestling last year -- he's a really great guy and super funny. He was briefly in the WWE and never got a chance to show his stuff.

I remember when Colt was in WWE he  did some videos for WWE.com that were pretty funny. I was watching the Chris Jericho DVD the other day and it dawned on me that WWE just isn't funny anymore and Colt really could have helped them in that regard. Jericho was genuinely funny, Edge & Christian were genuinely funny and there was always a lot of real comedy that just doesn't exist anymore.

Re: ECW- I thought Raven in ECW was one of the greatest heels in wrestling history. Him and Stevie were just a  great pair. He's another guy who was OK in WCW and the WWF, but once they let him do his thing in ECW  he was just fantastic. Sabu certainly had his flaws as a wrestler, but I still loved him. The luchadores in WCW were so graceful that it could look cheoreographed and then in ECW you had Sabu just barrelling through things  with no concern for his well being at all. ECW was like punk or indy rock in that if it hadn't come along  the big 2 would have had no idea who to rip off or how to make their products more modern.

[Greggulator]

RIP "Sweet and Sour" Larry Sweeney

That name probably doesn't mean anything to you unless you're a fan of indie wrestling. If you are, than his name means a lot.

Larry Sweeney performed in a lot of the better-known indie leagues in the country, most notably in Ring of Honor (probably the "third" league right now and known for placing an emphasis on athleticism) and Chikara (the most fun wrestling league ever -- a wacky lucha league started by a bunch of hardcore kids -- pretty sure the guys from Pissed Jeans had something to do with it -- from the Lehigh Valley in Pennsylvania. Chuck from Weston was one of their first referees, too).

Larry Sweeney was awesome right from the start. His character was that of an over-the-top old-school style wrestler who carried with him the "Texarkana TV Title" everywhere he went. He was too small to be a credible wrestling star, even in the indies, but he was so charismatic and such a great interview that he largely became a manager. He was always rumored to be making the jump to the WWE or TNA as a manager and Ric Flair was supposedly a huge fan.

I actually hung out with him once. A really good friend of mine is a wrestling referee in the indie leagues. One night about two years ago, we were going to just hang out and play Rock Band and then go out to grab a drink or bite to eat. There was a big wrestling show in Philly that weekend and Larry Sweeney came into town earlier than he expected, so he came over to the apartment where we were hanging.

I could see immediately why he was on his way to stardom. I was already a fan from watching his stuff on YouTube but, in person, I don't know if I've ever met someone so charismatic. My friend Rob said, "I've never wanted to join a cult, but if Larry Sweeney ordered me to drink Kook-Aid right now, I totally would." He was telling us these crazy stories about being a carnival worker in India, believing that he and his ex-girlfriend were reincarnated thousands of times, and just traveling the road as a wrestler. I also saw him put out cigarette ash on a cut on his foot since tobacco was a "healing plant".

We caught wind of this art kid party going on at some loft in Fishtown (which is sort of like Philly's Williamsburg, for a comparison) that was based around wrestling. They reached out to my friend to ref. I ended up actually wrestling that night, calling myself "The Richest Boy From Roxborough" and took on a guy with garbage taped all over himself -- a total dream come true to be a heel wrestler. Larry ended up taking on these two hipster girls but didn't tell them that he was ACTUALLY going to wrestle them -- they had NO idea what to make of him. But in the spirit of the business, he ended up losing to the girls and briefly lost his beloved Texarkana TV Title until he took it back via a technicality.

It was just one of those crazy nights that come out of nowhere. He was definitely out there. A couple of weeks after I met him, he started flaking out at shows and really worrying my friend and a lot of performers. He was bipolar and decided to stop taking his medicine because he got some advice from some "spiritualist" he met an airport, supposedly. He ended up doing really bizarre things, like videotaping himself wrestling children outside of a WrestleMania.

A few months back, he made a comeback. He got his crap together and was welcomed back with open arms -- he was just such a good dude and great talent that everyone realized he was sick and needed a break. But then word came out this morning that he lost his battle with his demons.

I feel like how a lot of more music-oriented people felt when Jay Reatard or someone like that passed.

Thanks, Alex (Larry's non-stage name) for giving me one of the best stories I'll ever have to tell.

Larry Sweeney Responds To Delirious

[Yannick]

I'm recently getting back into wrestling or should I say, Sports Entertainment.

Last week's Tough Enough had a wonderful moment during the elimination sequence.

Tough Enough - What is your favorite match? - Stone Cold Steve Austin

[Eric Fishlegs]

I'm recently getting back into wrestling or should I say, Sports Entertainment.

Last week's Tough Enough had a wonderful moment during the elimination sequence.

Tough Enough - What is your favorite match? - Stone Cold Steve Austin

That was good. Poor girl couldn't even name a single other match.

And if WWE still used managers Larry Sweeney could have been this generation's Roddy Piper. He was never gonna get a shot as a full time wrestler due to his size, but have him manage another heel and people would have been begging to see him get his ass kicked. I've only seen him here and there on DVDs but his talent was  obvious.

[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAZtWs-mRPk][/url]

[nec13]

So long, Edge.

We hardly knew ye.

Edge's Farewell Speech at Monday Night Raw 11.04.11

[wood and iron]

So long, Edge.

We hardly knew ye.

Edge's Farewell Speech at Monday Night Raw 11.04.11

I remember watching his first match in the WWE. He came down through the crowd and "injured the neck" of the jobber he took out so that the jobber had to be taken out on a gurney.

[Greggulator]

I've never been a big fan of Edge but his retirement last night was something pretty special. I'm always doubtful of retirements in wrestling -- Cena did a somewhat similar, earnest promo a few months ago after Wade Barrett fired him -- but last night felt very genuine.

I will say this about Edge -- although I was never a huge fan, he still had some really awesome moments. The "Five Seconds" era with Christian was pretty great. He was a great scumbag heel with Lita. I also loved the hardcore anti-ECW stuff he did with Foley. I also liked him blatantly using Vicki Guerrero during the past few years.

Now that I think about it, maybe I am a huge fan of Edge?

[davidgoeschatting]

These are the Fabulous Rougeau Brothers, Jacques and Raymond. I figure the FOT who venture into the wrestling thread may be entertained by these 2, who started off pretty inoffensively, but ended up turning heel (i.e., bad guys), and playing the "we're Canadian, but we just moved to Memphis and love the US" card. They'd bring out the smallest American flags (palm of your hand size) and wave them around patriotically with shit-eating grins. Good stuff. Here's their theme song:

Fabulous Rougeau Brothers Theme

Lyrics posted in Youtube comments section:
From Montreal to Memphis/Parlez-vous Francais?
Tell all the girls/The Rougeaus' on their way!
We're not a pretty boys/We're not a musclehead
We hate that long-haired look/We like the preppy look instead
CHORUS: We're All-American Boys x4
We don't like heavy metal/we don't like rock and roll
All we like to listen to is Barry Manilow!
(a bunch of French junk I don't understand)/We love the USA!
CHORUS: We're All-American Boys x ∞