FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: cutout on May 29, 2008, 01:58:07 PM
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I'd always heard about this interview but never thought to look it up on YouTube til today:
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=_BZ2UoBZzEI[/youtube]
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=yQGCYlhlu7Y[/youtube]
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I am a big fan of PIL (don't judge!), but maybe because I am older, I am completely on Tom Snyder's side while watching this.
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I am a big fan of PIL (don't judge!), but maybe because I am older, I am completely on Tom Snyder's side while watching this.
I judge you AWESOME for being a big fan of PIL. Everything up to, but not including, the "Happy?" LP (but including the "Disappointed" single from the "Happy" LP), is top shelf!
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The DVD set of punks on Tom Snyder from the 70s and 80s is priceless. He completely takes the piss out of everybody in the most unassuming way, by just taking everything at face value.
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I liked a lot of PIL, but some was just unlistenable. Maybe I need to go back to that since it;s been a while.
But I'm with you Jon... Mr Lydon is not making it easy for Mr Snyder.
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I like when he says "We're not going to condescend".
You sure about that?
I don't really know much PiL or anything about them really. I think their concept is pretty interesting and I actually think they're kind of right about the playing-live paradigm, but man that was pretty funny watching Keith go "I only know what I don't like". He had the biggest deer-in-the-headlights look.
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I love how every time John Lydon is in the news Idolator posts this picture:
(http://cache.idolator.com/assets/resources/2007/09/johnnyrotten.jpg)
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John Lydon on Judge Judy. Oh, how the mighty fall.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p2CnwYPhcQk
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John Lydon on Judge Judy. Oh, how the mighty fall.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p2CnwYPhcQk
Holy moley - I watched that whole thing.
My favorite quote: "I understand 'no.' Judge Judy understands 'no.' Mr. Williams doesn't."
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I've tried very hard to get into PIL but just can't. One of my good friends loves them and I just can't do it.
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I've tried very hard to get into PIL but just can't. One of my good friends loves them and I just can't do it.
Watch this and then tell me you don't like PIL!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FnBq98uUJE4
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I'm weirdly finding Lydon on Judge Judy more endearing than Lydon sniding out Tom Snyder.
This is pretty awesome. I actually watched this in a class called "Eighties Video Art".
[youtube]151IfhZD2rA&hl=en[/youtube]
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First 2 PiL albums = teh awesome
Don't really know anything after that. The debut actually kinda reminds me of Led Zeppelin.
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John Lydon on Judge Judy. Oh, how the mighty fall.
I love this clip. Call me naive, but perhaps this is just another example of what a mensch Lydon is - maybe, as he suggests in the Tom Snyder clip, he never really DID consider himself one of "the mighty." Maybe doing the Megabugs show, agreeing to handle a claim on Judge Judy, doing upmteen embarrassing Sex Pistols reunions just shows that he IS a "fallen" soul like the rest of us - needs some money, has a sense of humor, isn't afraid to be a goof ball or embarrass himself, etc., AND possibly still scoffs at the idea of rock stardom. I mean, you hear him speak in The Filth and the Fury and you have a hard time reconciling that guy - the same guy who wrote the scribbled "F.U." to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - and the guy in the baggy plaid suits playing Sex Pistols songs in Las Vegas casino theaters, but maybe the joke's still on us and everyone who wants to make of him something more than he feels he is or needs to be.
O.k. - I wish this was, erm... Chinatown... so I wouldn't have to embarrass myself, but there you go - that's my embarrassingly positive thought for the day, and it's over now - go about your business.
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First 2 PiL albums = teh awesome
Don't really know anything after that. The debut actually kinda reminds me of Led Zeppelin.
First 5 "real" LPs are great:
1. First Issue (http://www.fodderstompf.com/DISCOGRAPHY/LP/3firstLP.html)
2. Metal Box/Second Edition (http://www.fodderstompf.com/DISCOGRAPHY/LP/3MBLP.html)
3. Flowers of Romance (http://www.fodderstompf.com/DISCOGRAPHY/LP/3flowersLP.html) - this is almost all just drums and vocals - it's insane - if someone did this at a show at Death by Audio in Brooklyn today, they'd be hailed as a genius (and rightly so).
4. This is What You Want... This is What You Get (http://www.fodderstompf.com/DISCOGRAPHY/LP/3thisLP.html)
5. Album (http://www.fodderstompf.com/DISCOGRAPHY/LP/3albumLP.html) - as, strangely, both my father and a large skinhead friend of mine from South London would say, "Tough tunes!!"
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That Tom Snyder clip made me a little squirmy.
However watching him sing Poptones was great.
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I guess this is as good as any opportunity to get it out there...
I love Tom Snyder. That is all.
I've only seen clips of this meeting before this, never the whole, horrible, thing. Gah.
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Oh yeah! I remember that Judge Judy bit.
I thought her and Johnny were making a bit of a connection. I think deep down, she's a Sex Pistol.
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What Mr. Lydon said in the Tomorrow interview wasn't so bad; it was his tone and all the smirking and sneering that were obnoxious. And not, I think, obnoxious enough to be so upsetting to Mr. Snyder, who I think was an idiot for letting himself get so riled.
I think there's definitely a bit of flirting on Judge Judy's part beginning at 6:30.
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I will never understand the appeal of Lydon or the Sex Pistols. It's always seemed like an embarrasing, transparent gimmick that can only be truly liked through hours of overthinking.
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I will never understand the appeal of Lydon or the Sex Pistols. It's always seemed like an embarrasing, transparent gimmick that can only be truly liked through hours of overthinking.
Forrest is on the mark.
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What Mr. Lydon said in the Tomorrow interview wasn't so bad; it was his tone and all the smirking and sneering that were obnoxious. And not, I think, obnoxious enough to be so upsetting to Mr. Snyder, who I think was an idiot for letting himself get so riled.
I think there's definitely a bit of flirting on Judge Judy's part beginning at 6:30.
I think SARAH's on the mark. I don't know anything about Tom Snyder, but he didn't really seem to have researched anything about the actual musical influences of the band or what they actually sounded like. You'd think if they're not giving him any specifics and a lot of attitude he'd be able to pull out "Well, don't you like reggae?" or something, and then if they just say something snide he can just be like "That's fantastic!" and play along instead of getting pissy about it. There are certainly contradictions in what PiL were saying, but Snyder wasn't even pointing those out other than to be like "you're not a band but have musical instrooments!!". maybe he was just mad that John kept smoking his cigarettes. The interview was sort of like a real life Knowing Me Knowing You sequence.
Also, on Judge Judy:
"All these people you pay, Mr. Lydon"
"...and none of them get day rooms."
zing!
TL, I'm kinda with you. As I get older and realize how fickle and shortsighted we are about who we applaud for what reasons in the rock'n'roll universe, I appreciate Lydon more. He appears over and over in Our Band Could Be Your Life as a sellout prima donna prick, and it's probably pretty accurate, but I think if people on the rise are quick to judge him, they might want to hold back because it might look different once you've been chewed up and spit out of whatever hype mill you're entering today. He seemed to learn a hard lesson early and to take it to heart and refuses to pretend that the game of what he does is anything other than a game. I remember once playing an all ages show in L.A. and just mentioning that, hypothetically, if my band brought in a lot of people, it would hypothetically be nice to get paid something, and then hearing it get back to me from these much younger people putting on the show and their friends, that I was "spoiled" from playing shows in New York. It just reminded me that the things I thought were bullshit when I was a kid just seem reasonable and fair (if not particularly punk) today. How much of a pain in the ass would it be to be this figurehead of English punk who could never live up to the impossible semi-manufactured ethos of that movement? It's the sort of thing where once you're not destitute, you can't possibly remain valid under Sex Pistols conditions. PIL was a logical way to segue out of that system.
Why did I write all that?
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I love this clip. Call me naive, but perhaps this is just another example of what a mensch Lydon is - maybe, as he suggests in the Tom Snyder clip, he never really DID consider himself one of "the mighty." Maybe doing the Megabugs show, agreeing to handle a claim on Judge Judy, doing upmteen embarrassing Sex Pistols reunions just shows that he IS a "fallen" soul like the rest of us - needs some money, has a sense of humor, isn't afraid to be a goof ball or embarrass himself, etc., AND possibly still scoffs at the idea of rock stardom. I mean, you hear him speak in The Filth and the Fury and you have a hard time reconciling that guy - the same guy who wrote the scribbled "F.U." to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - and the guy in the baggy plaid suits playing Sex Pistols songs in Las Vegas casino theaters, but maybe the joke's still on us and everyone who wants to make of him something more than he feels he is or needs to be.
O.k. - I wish this was, erm... Chinatown... so I wouldn't have to embarrass myself, but there you go - that's my embarrassingly positive thought for the day, and it's over now - go about your business.
I think you are probably right. I never heard any of the ideas behind PiL and I liked hearing them say that they at least tried to play "honest" rock shows. That clip from whatever Dick Clark show that was only proves that they took that idea seriously too.
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First 2 PiL albums = teh awesome
Don't really know anything after that. The debut actually kinda reminds me of Led Zeppelin.
First 5 "real" LPs are great:
1. First Issue (http://www.fodderstompf.com/DISCOGRAPHY/LP/3firstLP.html)
2. Metal Box/Second Edition (http://www.fodderstompf.com/DISCOGRAPHY/LP/3MBLP.html)
3. Flowers of Romance (http://www.fodderstompf.com/DISCOGRAPHY/LP/3flowersLP.html) - this is almost all just drums and vocals - it's insane - if someone did this at a show at Death by Audio in Brooklyn today, they'd be hailed as a genius (and rightly so).
4. This is What You Want... This is What You Get (http://www.fodderstompf.com/DISCOGRAPHY/LP/3thisLP.html)
5. Album (http://www.fodderstompf.com/DISCOGRAPHY/LP/3albumLP.html) - as, strangely, both my father and a large skinhead friend of mine from South London would say, "Tough tunes!!"
Also, if you can get your hands on "Commercial Zone", do it. That was the album that was supposed to follow "The Flowers of Romance" but did not because of legal battles within the band. "This is What You Want... This is What You Get" is what got put out instead...and it's a tamer, less experimental version of "Commercial Zone".
P.S. Not many albums scare me, but "The Flowers of Romance" scares me.
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The Tomorrow Show actually was a bit like Knowing Me, Knowing You. But less funny. I always liked the old SNL parody. Mick Jagger takes the piss out of Dan Aykroyd as Snyder. It made me chuckle. Don't know if it would now.
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I will never understand the appeal of Lydon or the Sex Pistols. It's always seemed like an embarrasing, transparent gimmick that can only be truly liked through hours of overthinking.
Forrest is on the mark.
Meh. Their problem is that they're difficult to relate to today. Their music is too dated and specific to those years in England. And considering they were originally founded by McLarren to schill clothes for his little punk-rock clothing boutique makes it even harder in retrospect.
But they were a reaction to the political climate of their time. It's the same with all those Punk and Oi bands... it's almost unlistenable now, but they were specific to their surroundings back then and were a reaction to what people were living with.
I choose to heap my coals upon the bands that are shitty xeroxes of those movements an wear everything like a uniform.
Someday Indiana Jones will be chasing down Johnny Rotten's fuzzy pink sweater and shouting to the kid in plaid pants who's stolen them "IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!"
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But they were a reaction to the political climate of their time.
We're just going to have to disagree like gentlemen. I'm sorry, but I just think that notion romanticizes the "movement" too much. I have a hard time seeing Lydon really paying attention to policy and railing against it with simple-minded songs about anarchy and the queen and problems with their very major record label. I've always seen the Sex Pistols as more of a concoction than a reaction to anything. When you see Lydon in interviews, you can clearly see that he is in character, at least from where I'm sitting.
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Someday Indiana Jones will be chasing down Johnny Rotten's fuzzy pink sweater and shouting to the kid in plaid pants who's stolen them "IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!"
So all I've got to look forward to is skinny jeans and that ridiculous vest thing everyone's been sporting lately?
I hate it when scenes "die" before I'm even born yet.
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We can agree like gentleman on some parts. They were a concoction. No illusions there. Malcolm was the deluded one. He wanted kids to be his own personal art project, and John wanted it to be something bigger than what it was. It fell apart when neither could reconcile their own skeeviness with each other. They weren't particularly intelligent... but that's punk for you.
This is why they don't hold up as well as The Clash. The Clash had bigger issues on their mind than a narrow agenda and they're petty squabbles. (At least in the beginning.)
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I hate it when scenes "die" before I'm even born yet.
No kidding. I should have been a cavalier:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Anthonis_van_Dyck_058.jpg)
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No kidding. I should have been a cavalier
As a Roundhead, I declare war on yesno!
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But they were a reaction to the political climate of their time.
We're just going to have to disagree like gentlemen. I'm sorry, but I just think that notion romanticizes the "movement" too much. I have a hard time seeing Lydon really paying attention to policy and railing against it with simple-minded songs about anarchy and the queen and problems with their very major record label. I've always seen the Sex Pistols as more of a concoction than a reaction to anything. When you see Lydon in interviews, you can clearly see that he is in character, at least from where I'm sitting.
Well, you have to ask people who lived in THAT England at THAT time (which was a very different place and time) - even the members of CRASS themselves, as well as Joe Strummer, et al, believed what the Sex Pistols were putting over - they believed it when he said, to quote an over-quoted phrase, "We mean it maaaaaan" - and though there was a manipulated pose involved, the impression that I get is that the band, themselves, DID actually "mean it." It was obvious in the midst of their actual first go-around that Rotten didn't appreciate being made into McLaren's commodity, and like them or not, their effect and influence speak for themselves.
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I would not deny their influence or impact in any way. I just always felt that there was something inauthentic about the Sex Pistols - let me add that I, myself, feel a sense of confusion and embarrasment when a discussion about any artist turns to 'authenticity'. The meaning of that word is so open for debate that we could go irreversibly down a very troubling rabbit hole - basically, that this was a social experiment/art project that was given such credence that we now see it as something bigger, more important, and especially, political than it was. I still think it was more of a commersial enterprise than anything else, which is fine, but I think that krux has been lost on many people (present company, of course, excluded). There are so many punk bands that I adore, and I suppose that feeling that they are grounded in some real principles appeals to me. That said, I feel a bit silly over the length and futility of this post and I have no desire to scoff at anyone's enjoyment of this band. I realize that most mucicians in other genres would never be held to the same kind of standard.
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"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"
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Woof, you're right Forrest. This has gone on too long.
You know what would resolve this once and for all, and cheese everyone at the same time? Start a Sex Pistols cover band. You know you want to.
I don't know how to play bass, so if you don't know how play guitar, we can do this shit.
C
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I am so into that what should we call ourselves? The Intercourse Guns?
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I am so into that what should we call ourselves? The Intercourse Guns?
It'd have to be something like "Pretty Vacant: America's Ultimate Sex Pistols Tribute Band".
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I would not deny their influence or impact in any way. I just always felt that there was something inauthentic about the Sex Pistols - let me add that I, myself, feel a sense of confusion and embarrasment when a discussion about any artist turns to 'authenticity'. The meaning of that word is so open for debate that we could go irreversibly down a very troubling rabbit hole - basically, that this was a social experiment/art project that was given such credence that we now see it as something bigger, more important, and especially, political than it was. I still think it was more of a commersial enterprise than anything else, which is fine, but I think that krux has been lost on many people (present company, of course, excluded). There are so many punk bands that I adore, and I suppose that feeling that they are grounded in some real principles appeals to me. That said, I feel a bit silly over the length and futility of this post and I have no desire to scoff at anyone's enjoyment of this band. I realize that most mucicians in other genres would never be held to the same kind of standard.
I don't think the length of the post is silly, nor do I think the discussion has gone on too long - it's a discussion, and there is much to discuss...
(in general, I mean)
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You just earned yourself a spot drumming in Pretty Vacant, TL.
We're going to dedicate every song to CBGB's.
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You just earned yourself a spot drumming in Pretty Vacant, TL.
We're going to dedicate every song to CBGB's.
Two things:
1. If you fire me, I will sue you for wrongful termination and assault (and I want nice hotel rooms!).
2. While I would prefer CBGB over John Varvatos, I am no whiny CB's nostalgia freak. I'm kinda glad it's gone.
As long as those things are understood, I'm ready for practice!
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I am so into that what should we call ourselves? The Intercourse Guns?
It'd have to be something like "Pretty Vacant: America's Ultimate Sex Pistols Tribute Band".
What about "No Room Of One's Own"
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Point 1- We will settle all disagreements in a game of "Squatters Chicken." All disputing parties will forgo bathing until their conscience and health begin to suffer, and they puss out and bathe. The foulest-smelling party thereby wins.
Point 2- I also dance on the grave of CBGB's, and although the Pistols never set foot in that place, I don't think anyone will ever notice. John Varvatos will be sponsoring us, so will always look amazing.
Point 3- We will practice three times a day. I want these covers performed TIGHT!
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Point 1- We will settle all disagreements in a game of "Squatters Chicken." All disputing parties will forgo bathing until their conscience and health begin to suffer, and they puss out and bathe. The foulest-smelling party thereby wins.
Point 2- I also dance on the grave of CBGB's, and although the Pistols never set foot in that place, I don't think anyone will ever notice. John Varvatos will be sponsoring us, so will always look amazing.
Point 3- We will practice three times a day. I want these covers performed TIGHT!
I find these terms acceptable.
I am, as they say, "in!"
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I'm embarrassed to say that I got into PiL through Album (or as a highschooler back in 1988, Cassette). I was only interested in it because I heard Steve Vai played guitar on it. That record is still a guilty pleasure to this day.
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Well then stop over to the BB King's at time square to see Pretty Vacant: America's Number One Tribute to the Filth and the Memories. We'll set you right. Tickets start at 30 dollars.
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Well then stop over to the BB King's at time square to see Pretty Vacant: America's Number One Tribute to the Filth and the Memories. We'll set you right. Tickets start at 30 dollars.
Yeah - what do you think about doing a costume change and coming out as PIL for a second set?
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Well then stop over to the BB King's at time square to see Pretty Vacant: America's Number One Tribute to the Filth and the Memories. We'll set you right. Tickets start at 30 dollars.
Yeah - what do you think about doing a costume change and coming out as PIL for a second set?
I love it, though it will require the name of the band to be even longer. It's great to be playing at the same venue that hosts legendary blues bands like Celtic Frost and the Average White Band.
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the Average White Band.
I am proud to say that the only thing I know about this group is that there is a synthed-up version of one of their songs that plays when you open one of the ridiculous games my cell phone has on it ("midnight poker," hee hee hee). And I only know that because someone told me.
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the Average White Band.
I am proud to say that the only thing I know about this group is that there is a synthed-up version of one of their songs that plays when you open one of the ridiculous games my cell phone has on it ("midnight poker," hee hee hee). And I only know that because someone told me.
There is no pride in being ignorant of the accomplishments of Scotland's greatest funk band, Emma. :'(
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Well then stop over to the BB King's at time square to see Pretty Vacant: America's Number One Tribute to the Filth and the Memories. We'll set you right. Tickets start at 30 dollars.
Yeah - what do you think about doing a costume change and coming out as PIL for a second set?
I'll have to contact the stylists from Hot Topic that will be sponsering us... but I think it isn't something that another BB King "handling fee" won't fix.
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Mr. Lydon has been at it again. They headlined a festival in the UK yesterday, and according to NME reports, he was in good form.
http://www.nme.com/news/sex-pistols/37371 - highlights of a radio interview
http://www.nme.com/news/sex-pistols/37367 - gig report
"Good evening Isle Of Wight," Lydon said as he took the stage wearing a baggy stripy top and clutching a black book. "Tonight we will be singing songs from the book of Sod's law. Sing along or fucking die." ...
Later in the set the outspoken singer complained about the quality of bands on the festival bill, saying there were "still fucking homo bands coming up here." ...
"There's not much fanny here," Lydon moaned after finishing the song. "It's all blokes. Put your tits away – I'm in trouble with the courts of law for that sort of thing." ...
"We never liked the moniker 'punk' right from the start," declared Lydon. "That’s something like the press gave to us or attached to us. I’ve always, myself personally bitterly rejected it. I don’t like the term. It means in American, you know, Mr Big’s Bum boy in prison. I really don’t think any big fat Yank fancies my bottom!"
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Mr. Lydon has been at it again. They headlined a festival in the UK yesterday, and according to NME reports, he was in good form.
http://www.nme.com/news/sex-pistols/37371 - highlights of a radio interview
http://www.nme.com/news/sex-pistols/37367 - gig report
"Good evening Isle Of Wight," Lydon said as he took the stage wearing a baggy stripy top and clutching a black book. "Tonight we will be singing songs from the book of Sod's law. Sing along or fucking die." ...
Later in the set the outspoken singer complained about the quality of bands on the festival bill, saying there were "still fucking homo bands coming up here." ...
"There's not much fanny here," Lydon moaned after finishing the song. "It's all blokes. Put your tits away – I'm in trouble with the courts of law for that sort of thing." ...
"We never liked the moniker 'punk' right from the start," declared Lydon. "That’s something like the press gave to us or attached to us. I’ve always, myself personally bitterly rejected it. I don’t like the term. It means in American, you know, Mr Big’s Bum boy in prison. I really don’t think any big fat Yank fancies my bottom!"
:-\
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"Mr Big's Bum Boy" is also a breakfast platter at Denny's.
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"Mr Big's Bum Boy" is also a breakfast platter at Denny's.
LOLbowski.
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All I'm saying about this is Iggy Pop played a song, bashed his nose, sat down with Tom Synder and was pleasant and articulate enough, and then played two more songs. Wendy O. Williams played a song, running all over the place, sat down with Tom Synder and was pleasant and articulate enough, played another song, took a sledgehammer to, and ultimately blew up, a Chevy Nova. John Lydon and Keith Levene, don't play any songs, smoke Tom's cigarettes, and give him an undeserved hard time. Shameful.
My wife and just finished "The Tomorrow Show with Tom Snyder: Punk & New Wave" DVDs. My 8 month old LOVED the W.O.W. performance. It was precious.
p.s. Lydon and Levene made Patti Smith seem tan by comparison - sickliest looking guys I have ever seen.
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- sickliest looking guys I have ever seen.
No doubt! They seemed to be oozing a little bit.
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and the reasons to hate lydon keep piling up...
http://www.nme.com/news/bloc-party/38297
Bloc Party's Kele Okereke was involved in a fight with The Sex Pistols' frontman John Lydon at the Summercase festival on Saturday (July 19).
Branding the incident an "unprovoked racist attack", Okereke suffered severe facial bruising, cuts to his face and body and a split lip.
However, in a statement from the younger band they claimed that the Sex Pistols singer "became intimidating and aggressive while his entourage responded with a racist tirade including the statement, 'Your problem is your black attitude'."
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and the reasons to hate lydon keep piling up...
http://www.nme.com/news/bloc-party/38297
Bloc Party's Kele Okereke was involved in a fight with The Sex Pistols' frontman John Lydon at the Summercase festival on Saturday (July 19).
Branding the incident an "unprovoked racist attack", Okereke suffered severe facial bruising, cuts to his face and body and a split lip.
However, in a statement from the younger band they claimed that the Sex Pistols singer "became intimidating and aggressive while his entourage responded with a racist tirade including the statement, 'Your problem is your black attitude'."
Ugh. >:(
On the fast track to the Hate Pit.
In other news, The Clash's Tomorrow Show performance and interview is on the Clash Live: Revolution Rock DVD. Top shelf.
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and the reasons to hate lydon keep piling up...
http://www.nme.com/news/bloc-party/38297
Bloc Party's Kele Okereke was involved in a fight with The Sex Pistols' frontman John Lydon at the Summercase festival on Saturday (July 19).
Branding the incident an "unprovoked racist attack", Okereke suffered severe facial bruising, cuts to his face and body and a split lip.
However, in a statement from the younger band they claimed that the Sex Pistols singer "became intimidating and aggressive while his entourage responded with a racist tirade including the statement, 'Your problem is your black attitude'."
Just read this on Billboard and the biggest thing that surprised me was that Lydon has an entourage. Lydon's a big douche but I can't imagine how lame his 55year old punk followers are.