Good ska

[masterofsparks]

It's basically just an accident.  Some punk guys got into reggae and ska in the 70s.  It was briefly a symbol of racial harmony but I think it lasted because the musical styles are weirdly complementary.  Punk rockers don't get to have ballads, so they dabble in ska instead.  Something like that.

That's what I think - those reggae/ska songs on punk records are kinda like punk-rock power ballads or something. I'm not saying they sound like power ballads, but rather they serve a similar purpose.

[KickTheBobo]

Skatalites, Specials, OPIV...hell, I'll even go to bat for the Mighty Mighty Bosstones (totally blew Slapshot off the stage when I saw them live, because they were actually FUN for a change)

there's a great box set called Tougher Than Tough: The Story Of Jamaican Music that covers (from what I remember) rocksteady>ska>reggae>dancehall over 4 discs, which has some fantastic ska tunes.


Re: the violin in rock. Do you think that killer dirge of Venus in Furs would have been as effective w/o the viola (the violin's fat older brother)? I also consider the Dirty Three to be rock, as well as a great band.

[TL]

I don't get how Ska is connected to the punk/rock side of things. I don't mind it but where did that come from to connect the two?

It's basically just an accident.  Some punk guys got into reggae and ska in the 70s.  It was briefly a symbol of racial harmony but I think it lasted because the musical styles are weirdly complementary.  Punk rockers don't get to have ballads, so they dabble in ska instead.  Something like that.

I would also guess that the whole 2-tone thing was going on in England in the late '70s, and it would be difficult for a musical subculture (especially one with political roots) to not sort of crash into punk rock and skinhead culture and stuff at the time?

Then again, I was not even close to being alive at that point, so what do I know?
(Answer: Very Little.)

I think that's all part of it.  The emigration of Caribbean people to England in the 50s and 60s put the underclasses of different races in close proximity for the first time (in England), and you had skins and mods first identifying with ska and soul, and then as punk and reggae emerged in the 70s, another level of identification.  English ska band Symarip had, "Skinhead Moonstomp,", English reggae bands like Steel Pulse and Aswad played with punk bands frequently early on, Bob Marley had "Punky Reggae Party," etc.  And from the other side, the Clash, Slits, and Ruts were being directly influenced by events in their own neighborhoods (Brixton riots, Notting Hill riots, etc.), and were reflecting that back in their affinity for and use of reggae.  With the Specials, it's a little less organic, but kind of more interesting - they were all in various non-ska bands around Coventry, got together as a punk band, and then led by Jerry Dammers, they got out of just being a punk band as a direct reaction to months of violence at every single show, and they made a very conscious decision to create this "Two-Tone" imagery and present themselves as a true synthesis of complementary colors, ideas, and musical influences - actually trying to "bring people together."  It was a high-minded concept, and was willfully trying to cement this punk and ska alliance.  As with everything, a lot of what came in its wake (especially in the 90s) was crap, but...
Read this book!
Cut and Mix, by Dick Hebdige
There are chapters on ska, Two-Tone, and punk and reggae.

[Steeley Chris]

You can't go wrong with Desmond Dekker and Dandy Livingston.

And TL's right - pre '75 Wailers should never be thrown under the bus.

[jamesp]

Skatalites, Specials, OPIV...hell, I'll even go to bat for the Mighty Mighty Bosstones (totally blew Slapshot off the stage when I saw them live, because they were actually FUN for a change)

I'm with you on the Bosstones. I always loved Ben "the Bosstone" Carr standing up there and just dancing and they are a fun live band.

[Gilly]

Other than Toots who I don't consider ska, I wouldn't be able to get through an entire ska album. But, even though I don't know too much about ska (except that Madness invented it like Samir has already pointed out) I think every ska band I've heard has had at least one decent song. But, that's limited to probably a 20-25 bands.

[Beth]

Yellowcard were pretty awful. Keep the violin to classical music because you can rock just as hard playing classical. You might not go platinum but you'll still rock.

Arcade Fire rocks it pretty hard onstage with the violins/violas


and my friend's band, Rasputina, rocks hard with the cellos.



Strings can rock and still sound great. It's all in the approach. And in not having flat ironed hair.

[Gilly]

The Arcade Fire doesn't really feature the strings though. In their "rocking" songs they aren't very noticeable and I can always go with strings in slow ballads.

Rasputina has been around for a long time right? If they're the same band I'm thinking of (which they probably are since it would be really weird to have two bands with the name Rasputina that feature a cello) you're right about that one. They make it work. The cello is a pretty rocking instrument though with kind of a gravely sound to it and so much range to work with.

[Beth]

They have been around a while, I think about  ten years at this point. That's great that you know about them!! Melora, (in the picture I posted) is a force to be reckoned with on the cello (as well as a superb mom and a wonderful friend).

[yesno]

I knew a new agey goth chick who was really into Rasputina.

[Steeley Chris]

Getting things back on track, Prince Buster and Derrick Morgan had a pretty good feud going that led to some great music.

[AllisonLeGnome]

They have been around a while, I think about  ten years at this point. That's great that you know about them!! Melora, (in the picture I posted) is a force to be reckoned with on the cello (as well as a superb mom and a wonderful friend).

A podcast I used to listen to was really into them, and I think she was on a bunch of times.

I guess what I mean is that you can't just substitute a violin (particularly a violin- the tone is very different from that of a cello) for a conventional rock instrument. I've done violin accompaniment in the past and that's gone well, but it's not suited to be a primary instrument in a traditional arrangement, which is mostly what I was thinking of at the time. I mostly suck at the violin and guitar separately now, so it worked out.

[Beth]

I guess what I mean is that you can't just substitute a violin (particularly a violin- the tone is very different from that of a cello) for a conventional rock instrument. I've done violin accompaniment in the past and that's gone well, but it's not suited to be a primary instrument in a traditional arrangement, which is mostly what I was thinking of at the time. I mostly suck at the violin and guitar separately now, so it worked out.

Allison, have you ever heard Final Fantasy? It's the project of Owen Pallet, a Canadian violinist (I believe he was actually involved with Arcade Fire at one point). He doesn't rock by any means, but it is just him and his violin, and it's pretty great. Kind of what Jack Black referred to in High Fidelity as "sad bastard music" , but I like it.  You being a former violinist, I thought you might appreciate a pop musician who's doing it up with a violin.
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Here's how he does things live:
[youtube]
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[emma]

I guess what I mean is that you can't just substitute a violin (particularly a violin- the tone is very different from that of a cello) for a conventional rock instrument. I've done violin accompaniment in the past and that's gone well, but it's not suited to be a primary instrument in a traditional arrangement, which is mostly what I was thinking of at the time. I mostly suck at the violin and guitar separately now, so it worked out.

Alison, have you ever heard Final Fantasy? It's the project of Owen Pallet, a Canadian violinist (I believe he was actually involved with Arcade Fire at one point). He doesn't rock by any means, but it is just him and his violin, and it's pretty great. Kind of what Jack Black referred to in High Fidelity as "sad bastard music" , but I like it.  You being a former violinist, I thought you might appreciate a pop musician who's doing it up with a violin.

I love Owen Pallett so much! He's so weird and great. I've seen his fantastic projection-assisted live show a few times.

I've even got a Final Fantasy tote bag. I made the mistake of wearing it past a meeting of my school's Multi-Player Gaming Club (I am not kidding--it is our biggest extracurricular group by far) and everyone freaked out.

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Also, Kris Force from Amber Asylum.  She's also performed with Swans and Neurosis.

There are a lot of examples of bands who've used violins, either regularly or sporadically.