Author Topic: Humorless Politics Thread  (Read 816952 times)

dave from knoxville

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1155 on: June 11, 2009, 06:41:04 AM »
Would you rather the first country to have used nuclear weapons be Germany or Russia?

Morally and Karmic-wise I would have to say yes.

Same with torture.

Genocide.

It would make feel more comfortable about us being the country deciding which others can have nukes.

Speaking of which Pakistan has got a few of their own.

Almost daily I pray China will drop one so we don't have to have that empty all-alone feeling anymore.

wwwes

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1156 on: June 12, 2009, 08:59:17 PM »
Modern America is not responsible for genocide. You can bring up what this country did to Native Americans if you want, but it has no real impact on who we are as a people for the last fifty years or so.

And torture isn't the same thing. Dick Cheney and his advisors knew what they were doing. We know the methods of torture and what comes of them. They got exactly what they wanted, confessions. The true effects of the bomb and the implications of what was to come were unknown to all. All I'll say about the bomb is that it's really easy to make a moral choice from sixty years in the future.

buffcoat

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1157 on: June 12, 2009, 09:03:10 PM »
Modern America is not responsible for genocide. You can bring up what this country did to Native Americans if you want, but it has no real impact on who we are as a people for the last fifty years or so.

And torture isn't the same thing. Dick Cheney and his advisors knew what they were doing. We know the methods of torture and what comes of them. They got exactly what they wanted, confessions. All I'll say about the bomb is that it's really easy to make a moral choice from sixty years in the future.


We definitely agree more than we disagree, wwwes.*



* I got that out of a quote at the back of "Commentary" magazine.



I really don't appreciate your sarcastic, anti-comedy tone, Bro!

fonpr

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1158 on: June 12, 2009, 09:13:42 PM »
Native American death rates soar as most people are living longer
Babies die at a rate 44% higher than decade ago


http://www.seattlepi.com/local/403196_tribes12.html


"In 2004, a Civil Rights Commission report found the government spent more on health care per capita for federal prisoners and Medicaid patients than for Native Americans."


The genocide still continues.
WWWES I wish this wasn't so.  
But once you know, you must speak.
"Like it or not, Florida seems dedicated to a 'live fast, die' way of doing things."

fonpr

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1159 on: June 12, 2009, 11:21:58 PM »
I copied this from Grotefaced Killah elsewhere in this forum and thought it belonged here (I highlighted what I found most apropos) so here it is:

In March 2003, Rumsfeld engaged in a little bit of amateur philosophizing about the relationship between the known and the unknown: "There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know." What he forgot to add was the crucial fourth term: the "unknown knowns," the things we don't know that we know-which is precisely, the Freudian unconscious, the "knowledge which doesn't know itself," as Lacan used to say.

If Rumsfeld thinks that the main dangers in the confrontation with Iraq were the "unknown unknowns," that is, the threats from Saddam whose nature we cannot even suspect, then the Abu Ghraib scandal shows that the main dangers lie in the "unknown knowns" - the disavowed beliefs, suppositions and obscene practices we pretend not to know about, even though they form the background of our public values.

Thus, Bush was wrong. What we get when we see the photos of humiliated Iraqi prisoners is precisely a direct insight into "American values," into the core of an obscene enjoyment that sustains the American way of life.
"Like it or not, Florida seems dedicated to a 'live fast, die' way of doing things."

Sarah

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1160 on: June 13, 2009, 08:32:52 AM »
I like you, Fred.

buffcoat

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1161 on: June 13, 2009, 02:04:53 PM »
Love "it" or leave "it."
I really don't appreciate your sarcastic, anti-comedy tone, Bro!

chrisfoll577

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1162 on: June 13, 2009, 03:47:39 PM »
I'm going to get all like Bob Dole in this piece and say it was a Democrat who dropped the only Atomic Bombs.

Genocide's also at least 2,000 years old.

wwwes

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1163 on: June 13, 2009, 04:22:53 PM »
From what I can tell, the Native American health problem resembles nothing even remotely related to genocide. It's a problem of healthcare, which affects everyone. Perhaps it affects them more strongly, but to claim that it amounts to genocide would be laughable if it wasn't so awful.

And the torture is not an eye into American values, it's an aberration that we didn't know happened. Did you watch Funny Games last week or something? There is a subculture in America that approves of such actions, but it isn't a majority, it's a dying breed. Most people don't know that Dick Cheney's administration directly instructed the use of the techniques we saw at Abu Ghraib. It just doesn't get reported.

Bryan

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1164 on: June 13, 2009, 08:47:57 PM »
I admire your optimism, wwwes, but I strongly disagree with your conclusions.

wwwes

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1165 on: June 14, 2009, 12:30:03 AM »
Fair enough. Say, has anyone else heard that Tehran is on fire?

fonpr

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1166 on: June 14, 2009, 12:52:16 AM »
From what I can tell, the Native American health problem resembles nothing even remotely related to genocide. It's a problem of healthcare, which affects everyone. Perhaps it affects them more strongly, but to claim that it amounts to genocide would be laughable if it wasn't so awful.

"We" destroyed an entire nation of people and we never have done enough to correct.  Casinos? Bah.

Indian women are raped regularly and no one investigates.

The rapes are perpetrated primarily by men from outside the reservations and they are rarely (if ever) prosecuted.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12203114
"Like it or not, Florida seems dedicated to a 'live fast, die' way of doing things."

buffcoat

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1167 on: June 14, 2009, 01:05:15 AM »
I see a whole lot of convincin' goin' on.
I really don't appreciate your sarcastic, anti-comedy tone, Bro!

wwwes

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1168 on: June 14, 2009, 02:10:01 AM »
Genocide would imply killing a race of people. Last I checked, plenty of Native Americans do not live on a reservation (that by definition is not governed by the majority of our laws) and have integrated into society. We do not hunt them down, round them up or allow other people to beat them indiscriminately.

So no, your use of the term genocide to describe our current relationship with Native Americans is not valid.

fonpr

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #1169 on: June 14, 2009, 10:40:23 AM »

 We do not hunt them down, round them up or allow other people to beat them indiscriminately.

So no, your use of the term genocide to describe our current relationship with Native Americans is not valid.

You are either misinterpreting or misrepresenting what I am "trying" to get at.

"We" have committed genocide and the legacy is still with us.

And if you had listened to the NPR piece Native American women are being hunted down and beaten/ raped and our government is doing very little about it.


You're beginning to remind of William "Billy" Kristol, "Wes".
"Like it or not, Florida seems dedicated to a 'live fast, die' way of doing things."