Author Topic: Humorless Politics Thread  (Read 898183 times)

nec13

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2145 on: October 01, 2012, 12:28:45 PM »
The fundamental question here is, why do Third Way efforts inevitably fail? Why is it so hard for us to wean ourselves away from the constraints of our two party system? It seems that achieving some degree of compromise would clearly be in our best interests, but our adherence to rigid political dogmatism keeps us from doing so.
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InspectorHound

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2146 on: October 01, 2012, 12:36:18 PM »
Again, our two party system exists purely as a result of the winner-take-all voting system.

Gilly

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2147 on: October 01, 2012, 12:51:12 PM »
I just don't think runoffs would help much. The two parties are so far into America's pysche it's incredible.

Kormod

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2148 on: October 01, 2012, 12:55:35 PM »
I don't see how that's the case at all. In general, Americans hate their two political parties. Run-off elections would be welcomed. But neither the Republicans nor the Democrats want them, so we'll never have them.

fonpr

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2149 on: October 01, 2012, 01:06:42 PM »
The fundamental question here is, why do Third Way efforts inevitably fail?
Ask the League of Women Voters, they used to put on the debates, but no longer do so.
"Like it or not, Florida seems dedicated to a 'live fast, die' way of doing things."

wood and iron

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2150 on: October 01, 2012, 01:35:00 PM »
The fundamental question here is, why do Third Way efforts inevitably fail?
Ask the League of Women Voters, they used to put on the debates, but no longer do so.

Spot on, Fredericks. When the Women Voters held the debates, it was an indepedent source. Now, the debates are completely run by a corporation that is 50/50 Democrat and Republican. There is no chance of a third party candidate being allowed into any of those debates.

buffcoat

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2151 on: October 01, 2012, 01:49:50 PM »
Again, our two party system exists purely as a result of the winner-take-all voting system.


This is correct.  No other outcome is possible - it used to be possible for one of the two parties to degrade and be replaced (again, by exactly one party), but now the parties have become excellent at co-opting the easiest-to-co-opt parts of new movements.

Without very unlikely systemic reform, we have the Republican and Democratic Parties forever.
I really don't appreciate your sarcastic, anti-comedy tone, Bro!

Drew D

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2152 on: October 01, 2012, 02:33:38 PM »
Not trolling here, but genuinely interested:  what are some actual 3rd party candidates that people against voting for Obama would vote for?

Gilly

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2153 on: October 01, 2012, 02:39:52 PM »
I usually vote Green, they always run somebody who represents where I stand on about 80-90 percent of the issues.

fonpr

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2154 on: October 01, 2012, 03:01:24 PM »
Not trolling here, but genuinely interested:  what are some actual 3rd party candidates that people against voting for Obama would vote for?
Try this:  http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/08/21/justice-party-presidential-candidate-rocky-anderson-on-transparency-the-rule-of-law-under-obama/
"Like it or not, Florida seems dedicated to a 'live fast, die' way of doing things."

Drew D

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2155 on: October 01, 2012, 03:29:39 PM »
thanks guys....Don't get me wrong, I'm voting for Obama, but interested in what the left has as far as other options right now.  I feel like 2000 was the last time I knew a lot about what was going on in that scene.

roubaix

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2156 on: October 01, 2012, 03:34:14 PM »


Here's another measure of the alternatives.

And I fully agree the debates need to be opened up.  This campaign has been vacuous enough already.  Hopefully more debate sponsors will withdraw their support.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/09/philips-pulls-presidential-debate-sponsorship-137053.html


cavorting with nudists

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2157 on: October 01, 2012, 03:40:05 PM »
I don't see how that's the case at all. In general, Americans hate their two political parties. Run-off elections would be welcomed. But neither the Republicans nor the Democrats want them, so we'll never have them.

My hunch is that it's more accurate--of course, not contradictory--to say that generally speaking, Americans don't like politics much (certainly our rate of participation is much lower than in other Western democracies). Consequently: 1.) the institutions that already stand soak up almost all of the energy that would be available for the enormous organizational task of creating a viable third party; and 2.) the vast majority of citizens simply lack the interest to imagine real alternatives. Ask people what they imagine when they hear the phrase "third party" and I'll bet 90% of them would say "Oh, you mean like 'fiscally conservative but socially liberal, like a Bloomberg type thing? Might be OK.' That or some version of free-market libertarianism, the premises of which don't withstand even grazing up against inspection.
"Another thing that interests me about The Eagles is that I hate them." -- Robert Christgau

Drew D

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2158 on: October 01, 2012, 04:46:33 PM »


Here's another measure of the alternatives.

And I fully agree the debates need to be opened up.  This campaign has been vacuous enough already.  Hopefully more debate sponsors will withdraw their support.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/09/philips-pulls-presidential-debate-sponsorship-137053.html

The debates have become a joke, nice that sponsorship pulling might bring some more light to this.

-I guess my take on a graph like that is that the distance that Stein is from Obama, compared to Obama to Romney might just be rhetorical.  I feel like 3rd party candidates have the leeway to speak what they purely believe in an abstract sense.  Abstractly speaking, I think Obama is not far from Stein at all, as far as what he believes behind closed doors. If she actually won, I think once the reality of running the exec. branch hit, she would have to move right, or get absolutely nothing done.  Although my point is moot since for her to win we would probably live in an age where there are not only viable 3rd party presidential candidates, but also viable Senate and House ones as well, so she might have more to work with.  strictly hypothetical though.

Gilly

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Re: Humorless Politics Thread
« Reply #2159 on: October 01, 2012, 05:02:19 PM »
I think that's definitely the case in regards to interest. I didn't understand that for a long time but even my interest in U.S. politics has declined over the years because of the state of government and political news. I can totally understand why a person would want nothing to do with this.

But, I also think the lack of interest in issues is also due to a big problem America has with selfishness, personal gain and lack of compassion. It feels like the average American doesn't get worked up about anything until it hits their own home. There are still a lot of people who haven't been truly affected by the poor economy. Most people don't have a close relationship with somebody who is gay. I would bet the majority of people who don't vote are refraining just because they don't care about the issues because their lives are the same today as they were 8 years ago and really couldn't care less about everyone else.