What the hell has Dawkins gotten himself into?

[buffcoat]

Well, now I don't know WHAT to believe.

[Smelodies]

Atheists must be the only group who are even better than liberals at turning on their own.

Gads, CWN, when I frist released my "Awful Facts - Part I,"
[The basic tale of “The Origin Of Jesus Christ"]
waaaaay back @ original Mp3.com, me thunk to iself,
"This is gonna get me killed."
HOWEVER, there were many 'hope you die(s)' but only one 'death threat', the VAST majority of negative responses were from Atheists

Were you getting a lot of "What the hell are you talking about?"

[mike_b]

Well, if you think the world's real problems can be addressed squarely while 98% of the population concentrates on trying to appease/suck up to invisible superheroes who live in outer space, then I guess active efforts at snapping them out of it would seem unnecessary.

Atheists must be the only group who are even better than liberals at turning on their own.

I was just talking about this the other day, actually!

Not believing in god is totally cool.  You can tell because I'm doing it.  HOWEVER, there's a vocal minority of atheists who basically treat atheism as a religion.  It is right and good to distance yourself from these people.  They are shitheads.  One of the major problems people have with organized religion is the blind adherence of dogma that leads to things like crusades against gay people, punishing women for having sex, and what have you.  Rigid dogmatic beliefs are rigid dogmatic beliefs, and they lead to some fucked up shit.  CUT IT OUT, YOU GUYS!!!

When it gets to the point where you're saying things like "I'm right, everyone else is wrong, people who believe things that I don't are inherently inferior, everyone should believe what I believe, hello I'm Christopher Hitchens, &c"  you may as well put a statue of Charles Darwin in the northeast corner of your house and leave him offerings. 

Those atheist billboards that I see around sometimes are espousing exactly the right attitude.  There's probably no god, relax, and do right by yourself and yours.  That should be the end of it, but it's not for some people.  They're just swapping out "god" for "science" and saying the same awful stuff.

In summation: If you pride yourself on being rational and still engage in magical thinking, that means you are on some straight bullshit and I will fight you.

[cavorting with nudists]

One of the major problems people have with organized religion is the blind adherence of dogma that leads to things like crusades against gay people, punishing women for having sex, and what have you.

I don't get it.  What do atheists do that is equivalent to these?  Being rude, arrogant and overbearing doesn't seem to me comparable to actively crusading for limitations on other people's rights. (not to mention existence, if you want to engage with some real fundamentalists).

When it gets to the point where you're saying things like "I'm right, everyone else is wrong, people who believe things that I don't are inherently inferior...

That would indeed be pretty bad, except that I don't believe either you or I have ever seen an atheist claim this.  I also don't see the problem with thinking that if the proposition that there is no God is true, then the proposition that there is a God must be untrue.  Some people may not be able to pick between these irreconcilable ideas, but if you do pick one, it seems you kind of have to reject the other.

There are rude and self-righteous people in every field of endeavor, but I don't understand why people get so apoplectic specifically about the rudeness of atheists, unless it's based on the old and dubious idea that people's religious beliefs are tender blossoms uniquely entitled to protection from criticism.

[mike_b]

I don't get it.  What do atheists do that is equivalent to these?  Being rude, arrogant and overbearing doesn't seem to me comparable to actively crusading for limitations on other people's rights. (not to mention existence, if you want to engage with some real fundamentalists).

There are a small handful of atheists who basically think that religious people are inherently inferior to us.  That was the thesis of that awful Bill Maher movie.  That kind of thinking could lead to persecution.  However, we're talking about a small subset of the small atheist community.

There are some atheists that I could totally see persecuting people if they had the people and authority to do it.  But they don't.  That doesn't make it any less gross, though.

There are rude and self-righteous people in every field of endeavor, but I don't understand why people get so apoplectic specifically about the rudeness of atheists, unless it's based on the old and dubious idea that people's religious beliefs are tender blossoms uniquely entitled to protection from criticism.

Sometimes people get carried away, and cross the line that separates "criticism" from "being a dick."  If they do that, I reserve the right to say, "hey you're being a dick."  That's true for pretty much any given belief, though.

[cavorting with nudists]

"Inherently inferior"?  Really?  Speaking literally now.  Inherently?  Not even, say "dumber" as in "less cognizant of fact" but inherently inferior?

And I agree that there are people like you describe in every school of belief, but here we're talking about a tiny subset of a very small, nearly powerless, and widely reviled minority, so why get so incensed about it?

[mike_b]

"Inherently inferior"?  Really?  Speaking literally now.  Inherently?  Not even, say "dumber" as in "less cognizant of fact" but inherently inferior?

And I agree that there are people like you describe in every school of belief, but here we're talking about a tiny subset of a very small, nearly powerless, and widely reviled minority, so why get so incensed about it?

Bill Maher has repeatedly called religion a neurological disorder.

I don't want people lumping me in with Bill Maher in general, but in this case he's making us look bad.

[cavorting with nudists]

Well, only in Nazi medicine does neurological disorder equate to inherent inferiority, but I've made my point.

[cavorting with nudists]

Anyway, we atheists have to stop being so defensive and worried about what other people will think of us.  Right-wingers, for instance, are glad to have bomb-throwing fringe types like Michael Savage out there, because it makes them look reasonable.

[Smelodies]

I agree, Cavorting.  And if you believe religions are wishful thinking, making wishes to imaginary friends, etc., then it follows you believe religion is a delusion.  Why dress that up to mean something else?

[dave from knoxville]

I can HEAR you

[Tor_Hershman]

Indeed, Dawkins, if’in moi understands him correctly, states that the world would be better if everyone were Atheists but I know it would just the same, orrrrr, in me wee words – “An ape in a Pope Uniform, a Billy Graham Costume or a Darwin Suit would still be an ape, the question is –‘Are they a good ape or a bad ape’.

That is why Atheism is flushed down the universal toilet with all, all that could be fit on the page, religions in this video
Hey! Hey! We're The Humans

BTW, interesting note, a couple of weeks ago I got to see the first public reaction to that video. 
I seldom need to be surrounded by a bunch of YUPPIES, but. . .moi ‘twere and since they thought bein’ cleaver, with the old Hippie, would be fun I got one to use his atomic space-age telephone to
 look-up me YouTube vids. 
They decided to watch HHWTH. 
Right after the vid started, others came outta their offices with a
“What are you watching?!?”
They gathered about the cyber fireplace. 
Chuckles, then dead silence, then smiles, then deadpan ensued, however. . . . the ending got a 100% huge LOL.  I was MOST surprised, and humbled. 
I just put me noggin’ down and said “That you very much.”  Gad, I even forgot to place “Much” with “Munch.” 

[Alex_from_the_woods]

Well, if you think the world's real problems can be addressed squarely while 98% of the population concentrates on trying to appease/suck up to invisible superheroes who live in outer space, then I guess active efforts at snapping them out of it would seem unnecessary.

That was, in a word, awesome! Couldn't agree more and perfectly put. I may need to have that tatooed somewhere.

CWN- I salute you!

[Shaggy 2 Grote]

Wait, why are we obligated to like assholes because they share our politics? I'm thinking more about Hitchens than Dawkins here (I've heard stories from trusted sources that Hitchens is a completely amoral prick, in all fairness they're hearsay but I believe them, and besides there's that whole Iraq war thing), but I find both of their writing on this topic boorish and reductive. Both Terry Eagleton (an agnostic Marxist) and Chris Hedges (an antiwar lefty and divinity school dropout) have effectively demonstrated that both Hitchens and Dawkins base their entire anti-religious positions on straw man, ad hominem arguments.

Incidentally I'm an agnostic Jew who frequently prays to nobody. Like Zizek, I'm practically Maoist in thinking that churches should be turned into grain silos or palaces of culture -- but also like Zizek, I like Christianity, particularly the Leninist part of it.

[fonpr]

  Like Zizek, I'm practically Maoist in thinking that churches should be turned into grain silos or palaces of culture -- but also like Zizek, I like Christianity, particularly the Leninist part of it.

Synchronistically, I listened to a Zizek talk Sunday on the Intelligence Squared podcast.  I like him too. 
http://www.intelligencesquared.com/events/slavoj-zizek

Not as much as Jennifer Michael Hecht though.