Frank Zappa, conservative

[cavorting with nudists]

I may have gone into more detail about my reasons, but I don't think I've said anything more strongly anti-Zappa than Tom has on his show, several times--in fact I've even admitted liking a tiny portion of his output.  Not comparing myself to Tom, but is he "intolerant" on the subject?

[danner]

I may have gone into more detail about my reasons, but I don't think I've said anything more strongly anti-Zappa than Tom has on his show, several times--in fact I've even admitted liking a tiny portion of his output.  Not comparing myself to Tom, but is he "intolerant" on the subject?

Nah, I'm not sensing any intolerance here, and your trajectory of Zappa fandom makes sense. I, too, got into Zappa at a young age, and yeah, a lot of the lyrics haven't aged that well with me, but I still love the music (well, most of it). I give Zappa a lot of credit for branching out my tastes into other genres of music. I'm pretty sure I never bought any jazz or classical albums before hearing his stuff.

[John Junk]

Forget Zappa.  Moe Tucker, now THAT'S a conservative.

Ex Velvet Underground member Moe Tucker is a conservative

[not that clay]

Back in the 1990s I used to see Gail Zappa at the top of list of major Democratic funders. That's Gail, not Frank.

[John Junk]

Frank Zappa battled Tipper Gore and her pals over the Parental Advisory stickers thing, then Gail Zappa later became friends with Tipper Gore and Tipper played drums on one of Zappa's kids' records (rock'n'roll!).

Zappa's pretty awesome when pontificating about First Amendment Issues, and there's some great vids of him online handing politicians' and talking heads' asses to them.  I'm not a huge fan or anything, but there's a consistent theme of gradual-fascist-takeover in his work, and he even characterized the Parental Advisory flap as symptomatic of creeping fascism in America.  I agree about the South Park thing, though.  He doesn't seem like he would make a very coherent liberal or conservative, he's more like a "Everyone should do whatever they want and I should judge them all from my misanthropic and priveleged state of removal" kinda guy.  I feel like a lot of rock dudes are like that. 

[nec13]

Forget Zappa.  Moe Tucker, now THAT'S a conservative.

Ex Velvet Underground member Moe Tucker is a conservative

I'm not sure why Moe Tucker's conversion to conservatism bothered so many people. Regardless of what one thinks of her political beliefs, she's certainly entitled to them.

[Christina]

Forget Zappa.  Moe Tucker, now THAT'S a conservative.

Ex Velvet Underground member Moe Tucker is a conservative

I'm not sure why Moe Tucker's conversion to conservatism bothered so many people. Regardless of what one thinks of her political beliefs, she's certainly entitled to them.

When I heard about it, it gave me a start because VU's songs celebrate drugs and crazy sexual practices, etc. So I guess the assumption is all the band members were/are free wheelin' types, even though she didn't really write the lyrics for the songs as far as I know.

[cavorting with nudists]

I'm not sure why Moe Tucker's conversion to conservatism bothered so many people. Regardless of what one thinks of her political beliefs, she's certainly entitled to them.

I'm pretty sure that what bothered people was not the feeling that she wasn't entitled to them, but that "what one thinks of her political beliefs" is not so easily disregarded.  She seemed like a likeable person. Signing onto a racist, quasi-fascist political movement is not what one hopes to see from someone one likes.

[nec13]

I'm not sure why Moe Tucker's conversion to conservatism bothered so many people. Regardless of what one thinks of her political beliefs, she's certainly entitled to them.

I'm pretty sure that what bothered people was not the feeling that she wasn't entitled to them, but that "what one thinks of her political beliefs" is not so easily disregarded.  She seemed like a likeable person. Signing onto a racist, quasi-fascist political movement is not what one hopes to see from someone one likes.

Let me first say that I'm not particularly sympathetic to the Tea Party. With that being said, Moe Tucker's seemingly sudden political about face really didn't bother me. Her political leanings and opinions honestly mean nothing to me. They certainly have no influence on my own political worldview. Would it be nice if the actors, musicians and athletes I liked all shared my personal beliefs? I suppose. But the reality is they don't. So I just have to set aside those differences and appreciate those individuals for what they are, if that makes any sense. The only exception to this rule is when the individuals in question espouse utterly reprehensible, indefensible views. AFAIK, I don't think Moe Tucker was putting forth any such opinions.

I do respect your opinion, though. It's a view that a lot of fans share. For many, choosing to associate with a group like the Tea Party is simply an unforgivable act. I understand that. I think if I were a more passionate fan of Moe Tucker and the Velvets' music, then I might feel scorned myself.

Just my two cents.
 

[Austin From Chicago]

This is all true. Zappa was my hero too when I was that age - in fact I started playing guitar because of Zappa, started composing music because of him, and eventually majored in music composition because of him (dropped out; switched to English later). I guess I've always found him to be an inspirational figure, particularly as a composer of sorta kinda expressionist/anti-modernist 20th Century classical stuff and as a guitarist. Especially as a guitarist. Without Zappa I never would have investigated free jazz, never would have gotten into Derek Bailey or Brotzmann or any of the free improvisers that I love and enjoy. When I first heard "He Used to Cut the Grass" at 12 years old I have to admit his guitar playing gave me a headache - it was so gratuitously noisy and he was playing notes that sounded wrong and it just sounded chaotic and ugly to me and I turned it off in disgust. But I came back to it, and learned the logic of what he was doing and it made me want to try being a guitarist myself. (I had the same reaction hearing Black Flag's Greg Ginn a year or two later - the solo on "Slip It In" gave me a severe headache the first time I heard it and I immediately proclaimed him the worst guitarist of all time....a few days later I came back to it, had a revelation, and IMMEDIATELY proclaimed him THE BEST.)

ANyways, this is all very long-winded but I'm trying to say that I understand where Zappa-haters get off. Even as a major, bootleg-collecting fan, I think Zappa sucks a good 60-70% of the time. A lot of his music DOES suck. Have you ever heard the song "Tinseltown Rebellion?" Ugh. Maybe the worst song ever written. The whole deal was that Zappa was, without trying to be, the ultimate contrarian: if you wanted sleaze, he gave you doo-wop; if you wanted doo-wop, he gave you noisy guitar solos; if you wanted noisy guitar solos, he gave you political harangues; if you wanted political harangues, he gave you sleaze, etc. He always operated as the ultimate Turd in the Punchbowl, so to speak. I get tired of the sleaze and the sexism and the constant jokes about S&M and gay people and the staring too hard to be politically incorrect and the arrogance. Rarely is the bootleg I listen to all the way through. I usually skip to the songs with guitar solos and the instrumentally challenging songs with interesting arrrangements.

Having said all that, I will say that the LAST thing you'll ever hear me say is "Aw, you just haven't heard the right Zappa song yet, man!" Fuck that. I KNOW Zappa is terrible and I would never try to convince anyone else to listen to him.

Much of this could be said about Pete Townshend, Lou Reed, and some other rock "intellectuals" that come to mind.

True, it could be said of them. But of Zappa, there's nothing else to say. 

(Except that yeah, he's a very good guitarist, but so is the fusion-y yob you never heard of on the cover of this month's Guitar Player magazine)

(Full disclosure: Zappa was my hero, when I was 13.)

[masterofsparks]

I'm not sure why Moe Tucker's conversion to conservatism bothered so many people. Regardless of what one thinks of her political beliefs, she's certainly entitled to them.

I'm pretty sure that what bothered people was not the feeling that she wasn't entitled to them, but that "what one thinks of her political beliefs" is not so easily disregarded.  She seemed like a likeable person. Signing onto a racist, quasi-fascist political movement is not what one hopes to see from someone one likes.

Let me first say that I'm not particularly sympathetic to the Tea Party. With that being said, Moe Tucker's seemingly sudden political about face really didn't bother me. Her political leanings and opinions honestly mean nothing to me. They certainly have no influence on my own political worldview. Would it be nice if the actors, musicians and athletes I liked all shared my personal beliefs? I suppose. But the reality is they don't. So I just have to set aside those differences and appreciate those individuals for what they are, if that makes any sense. The only exception to this rule is when the individuals in question espouse utterly reprehensible, indefensible views. AFAIK, I don't think Moe Tucker was putting forth any such opinions.

I do respect your opinion, though. It's a view that a lot of fans share. For many, choosing to associate with a group like the Tea Party is simply an unforgivable act. I understand that. I think if I were a more passionate fan of Moe Tucker and the Velvets' music, then I might feel scorned myself.

Just my two cents.

Not to totally derail, but here's an interview with Moe Tucker where she expands a bit on her beliefs. She's not quite the fire-spitting Tea Party lunatic that the reaction to this video would have you believe:

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/rftmusic/2010/10/moe_tucker_interview_2010_politics_tea_party_velvet_underground_video.php

[masterofsparks]

I may have gone into more detail about my reasons, but I don't think I've said anything more strongly anti-Zappa than Tom has on his show, several times--in fact I've even admitted liking a tiny portion of his output.  Not comparing myself to Tom, but is he "intolerant" on the subject?

Maybe "intolerant" was the wrong word, but it was the first one that came to mind to describe "I cannot understand and refuse to accept an opinion different from my own." Sorry if I offended by saying "intolerant" - it wasn't my intention.

You're right, what you're doing is very similar to what Tom did on the show with one major exception - he's doing it on a comedy radio show for purposes of humor (i.e. it's his job), and you're doing it during your personal time on an internet message board. I won't speculate on your reasons.

[Crusherkc]

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/rftmusic/2010/10/moe_tucker_interview_2010_politics_tea_party_velvet_underground_video.php[/url]

What's this Mo Tucker quote about Bloomberg taking away salt?  How's that for a derailment from this topic?

[fonpr]

"Snock, it's not my fault; had to eat my porkchop without no salt."

[buffcoat]

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/rftmusic/2010/10/moe_tucker_interview_2010_politics_tea_party_velvet_underground_video.php[/url]

What's this Mo Tucker quote about Bloomberg taking away salt?  How's that for a derailment from this topic?

I will remind sensible people everywhere that this is NOT an actual political argument:

"I'm against a President dismissing any and all who dare to disagree"


Because much of the political sphere will tell you that it is.  It's important that we remember that it is not.