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The Best Show on WFMU => Show Discussion => Topic started by: Joe Rogaine on May 13, 2009, 08:14:55 PM

Title: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Joe Rogaine on May 13, 2009, 08:14:55 PM
Strange i figured he would be right up Mikes alley? I really wanted to hear Aimees story to bad they were cut short.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: hugman on May 13, 2009, 08:29:09 PM
PFT hates him, too.

I don't like him either. I LOVE HIM!


Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Keith Whitener on May 13, 2009, 08:35:03 PM
I wonder how Mike feels about Mickey Rourke as Bukowski.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: hugman on May 13, 2009, 09:15:16 PM
That's good, too.  I've re-watched that movie fairly recently and found it to be quite funny.  There are also a lot of lines from that movie quoted in punk rock songs.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Keith Whitener on May 13, 2009, 10:01:52 PM
Rourke sounds like he's doing a Mitch Hedberg impersonation in that film. Or maybe Hedberg spent his career doing a Rourke impersonation!
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Joe Rogaine on May 13, 2009, 10:56:02 PM
Has anybody ever seen Tales of Ordinary Madness with Ben Gazzara? Ive got it in my Netflix.
[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Poflgfftis [/youtube]


Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: hugman on May 14, 2009, 01:39:52 AM
Rourke sounds like he's doing a Mitch Hedberg impersonation in that film. Or maybe Hedberg spent his career doing a Rourke impersonation!

apparently you are unfamiliar with the work of one Snagglepuss.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: jamesp on May 14, 2009, 01:26:07 PM
Rourke sounds like he's doing a Mitch Hedberg impersonation in that film. Or maybe Hedberg spent his career doing a Rourke impersonation!

apparently you are unfamiliar with the work of one Snagglepuss.

Heavens to Murgatroyd!
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: hugman on May 14, 2009, 02:25:39 PM
Has anybody ever seen Tales of Ordinary Madness with Ben Gazzara? Ive got it in my Netflix.
[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Poflgfftis [/youtube]




has this guy ever heard bukowski read?
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: B_Buster on May 14, 2009, 04:56:34 PM
Yeah, I think Bukowski is extremely overrated. Read John Fante or Knut Hamsun instead. They're the much better writers Bukowski admitted to ripping off.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: hugman on May 14, 2009, 05:18:05 PM
Yeah, I think Bukowski is extremely overrated. Read John Fante or Knut Hamsun instead. They're the much better writers Bukowski admitted to ripping off.

I've been  reading Fante's Big Hunger at an absurdly leisurely pace for the past six months or so.  It's great. It's like Leave It To Beaver meets Bukowski.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Shaggy 2 Grote on May 14, 2009, 06:27:39 PM
I like Bukowski, but agree that Fante is much better.  Haven't read any Hamsun (yet).
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: B_Buster on May 14, 2009, 06:35:48 PM
I like Bukowski, but agree that Fante is much better.  Haven't read any Hamsun (yet).

Hunger is the one to start with Hamsun, JG. It's a hoot!
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Shaggy 2 Grote on May 14, 2009, 06:56:20 PM
Thanks for the recommendation!
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Matt on May 14, 2009, 07:09:25 PM
I like Bukowski, but agree that Fante is much better.  Haven't read any Hamsun (yet).

Hunger is the one to start with Hamsun, JG. It's a hoot!

I got this for Christmas a couple of years ago - still haven't read it. Maybe it's time. And maybe I'll tackle Fat City after that. Mike should start a book club.

EDIT: Mike called Hunger "a hoot". According to a blurb from Time Out on the back of my copy, it's "one of the most disturbing novels in existence". Ew boy.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Joe Rogaine on May 14, 2009, 08:58:56 PM
I thought Factotum was a pretty good film adaptation, Matt Dillon did a pretty good job.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Satchm0 on May 18, 2009, 05:10:20 PM
He's the Poet Laureate of Muffler Row, right?
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: ChrisRawk on May 21, 2009, 09:44:21 PM
When I was younger I was all about the Bukowski.  Now that I'm not as young I just can't get into him anymore.  My main thought now is "This guy should probably stop drinking"

FACTOTUM was decent, mainly for Dillon's performance.  Not really the best move to set it in modern times, though. 

I'm REALLY curious about Aimee's Buk story...
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: yesno on May 22, 2009, 12:32:56 AM
I used to be into Bukowski, too. But now I don't really dig the romanticization of vice. That said, there are some gems buried in his poetry and prose. He's worth an anthology.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: hugman on May 22, 2009, 01:24:58 AM
I used to be into Bukowski, too. But now I don't really dig the romanticization of vice. That said, there are some gems buried in his poetry and prose. He's worth an anthology.

they're not buried that deep in his poetry.  a great deal of his poems start out with a seemingly mundane observance of hard luck life and then punch you in the gut in the end with a tiny burst of humanity.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: yesno on May 22, 2009, 01:43:12 AM
I used to be into Bukowski, too. But now I don't really dig the romanticization of vice. That said, there are some gems buried in his poetry and prose. He's worth an anthology.

they're not buried that deep in his poetry.  a great deal of his poems start out with a seemingly mundane observance of hard luck life and then punch you in the gut in the end with a tiny burst of humanity.

The last stanza of "If we take" is seriously good:

But they've left us a bit of music
and a spiked show in the corner,
a jigger of scotch, a blue necktie,
a small volume of poems by rimbuaud,
a horse running as if the devil
were twisting his tail
over bluegrass and screaming,
and then,
love again
like a streetcar turning the corner
on time,
the city waiting,
the wine and the flowers,
the water walking across the lake
and summer and winter
and summer and summer
and winter again
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Sam on May 22, 2009, 09:25:27 AM
I love Knut Hamsun's novels.  Whether a young, starving man chewing on wood chips for sustenance is a hoot, I am unsure.  Though his novel Pan is a little hoot-like, despite its inclusion of self-inflected gunshot wounds.  I have seen some translations of his novels, and, in particular, Hunger (not to be confused with Hungrr, the hunger-fighting cyclops), so bad as to ruin the book; though I can't comment on his fidelity to the Norwegian, I definitely recommend the readability of Sverre Lyngstad's translations.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: around the bend on May 27, 2009, 11:31:36 PM
I thought Factotum was a pretty good film adaptation, Matt Dillon did a pretty good job.
I couldn't believe they cut the scene where bukowski drives the cab for his tryout for being a cab driver
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: orator on May 28, 2009, 02:32:05 AM
hey, Bukowski dudes:

Does it matter which order I watch Barfly and Factotum? Like, which takes place first in the main character's life?

thanks
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: hugman on May 28, 2009, 02:38:36 AM
hey, Bukowski dudes:

Does it matter which order I watch Barfly and Factotum? Like, which takes place first in the main character's life?

thanks

personally, i don't think it matters, and I think they cover the same rough period.  Barfly is a better movie, I think.  I think it captures the sense of humor that's so important in his work much more effectively.  I remember being disappointed by the bandage scene in Factotum because it didn't play nearly as funny as it read. 
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: hugman on May 28, 2009, 03:35:50 AM
If this pome ain't good then I'll eat my hat.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/ejhuggins/IMG_0019.jpg)
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h74/ejhuggins/IMG_0020.jpg)
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: reallynotclever on May 28, 2009, 03:50:45 AM
PFT hates him, too.

I don't like him either. I LOVE HIM!



     I second that.  I really like both Bukowski and Fante.  James Elroy and Jerry Stahl are also very good.   I'd really like to know exactly where Mike draws the line.  What book or poem set Mike against Bukowski so strongly.  Also,  Tom's characterization of AP Mike on twitter as "Bukowski caught in The Matrix" has me in tears every time I hear it.  I hope I'm not misquoting Tom, there.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: akaJudge on May 28, 2009, 09:04:18 AM
I love Bukowski!  Of course, I haven't read him in 15 years or so, but all my books are still on my shelf.  I should pick one up again and see if he holds up for me.  I have several recorded readings that I love love love, as well.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Chris L on May 28, 2009, 09:25:54 AM
Hold on, the guy from the wet t-shirt scene in SUPERVAN was a writer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mODHEvNKpAQ
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: B_Buster on May 28, 2009, 10:36:47 AM
  I'd really like to know exactly where Mike draws the line.  What book or poem set Mike against Bukowski so strongly.  Also,  Tom's characterization of AP Mike on twitter as "Bukowski caught in The Matrix" has me in tears every time I hear it.  I hope I'm not misquoting Tom, there.

I've read Post Office, Ham on Rye, and Women. Of the three, I'd give the nod to Ham on Rye for at least dealing directly with his horrible childhood. Post Office was just boring and monotonous, which may have been the point, but that didn't make it a good book. Women was the most disgusting of the bunch because it makes it clear that he's going to use his limited fame to sleep with as many women as possible and take his revenge for all the women who had previously rejected him (his descriptions of these encounters read like rape scenes). That's when I knew I had had enough of Bukowski.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: iAmBaronVonTito on May 28, 2009, 01:00:02 PM
i still enjoy bukowski, but not as much as i did when i was younger.  of course, when i was younger, i was intrigued by the lifestyle he wrote about, being a writer myself.

as an adult, ive had my share of lowest lows, and the magic was gone. 
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: A.M. Thomas on May 28, 2009, 11:09:25 PM
i still enjoy bukowski, but not as much as i did when i was younger.  of course, when i was younger, i was intrigued by the lifestyle he wrote about, being a writer myself.

as an adult, ive had my share of lowest lows, and the magic was gone. 

I share this sentiment.  I loved Bukowski when I was a pre-verted teenager.  Now: eh.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: spaceprophet on May 29, 2009, 06:24:30 AM
The documentary "Bukowski: Born Into This" (2002) is da bomb, I tell ya.

I wish I coulda attended one of his poetry readings before he died. I heard he'd get so drunk on stage that by the end of the night they had to carry him off.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: akaJudge on May 29, 2009, 09:54:15 AM
I wish I coulda attended one of his poetry readings before he died. I heard he'd get so drunk on stage that by the end of the night they had to carry him off.

A lot of students would go just to antagonize and challenge him, so there's some pretty mad heckling at times.  There are some good recordings of his readings, if you're interested.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: todd on May 29, 2009, 10:30:31 AM
I wish I coulda attended one of his poetry readings before he died. I heard he'd get so drunk on stage that by the end of the night they had to carry him off.

I do not understand why this is appealing.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Bryan on May 29, 2009, 11:08:24 AM
I wish I coulda attended one of his poetry readings before he died. I heard he'd get so drunk on stage that by the end of the night they had to carry him off.

I do not understand why this is appealing.

Yeah. I was going to say exactly the same thing. That sounds like the worst.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: B_Buster on May 29, 2009, 11:35:37 AM
I wish I coulda attended one of his poetry readings before he died. I heard he'd get so drunk on stage that by the end of the night they had to carry him off.

Do you like the Pogues? I think a Pogues show might fulfill your need for this type of entertainment.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: todd on May 29, 2009, 12:05:07 PM
The kind of person that likes to watch an alcoholic get drunk strikes me as the kind of person that loves to talk about their own self-diagnosed psychological disorders, or the torture they inflict upon themselves in the name of "their art."
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Steve of Bloomington on May 29, 2009, 10:40:27 PM
That's good, too.  I've re-watched that movie fairly recently and found it to be quite funny.  There are also a lot of lines from that movie quoted in punk rock songs.

'I don't hate people, I just feel better when they're not around' is a personal favorite.

I like Bukowski although not to the point of reading everything he did.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: hugman on May 30, 2009, 12:05:02 AM
That's good, too.  I've re-watched that movie fairly recently and found it to be quite funny.  There are also a lot of lines from that movie quoted in punk rock songs.

'I don't hate people, I just feel better when they're not around' is a personal favorite.


as quoted by the devil dogs
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: spaceprophet on May 30, 2009, 01:21:25 AM
The kind of person that likes to watch an alcoholic get drunk strikes me as the kind of person that loves to talk about their own self-diagnosed psychological disorders, or the torture they inflict upon themselves in the name of "their art."

Does that mean if you had the opportunity to go back in time and attend a Doors concert, uh let's see...circa 1970, or to see the Sex Pistols in a basement bar in London you'd say "I'll pass. I don't want to see self abusive and self indulgent rock stars."? They were all high to the gills.

Like Dave Gilmour said in that doc about the making of Dark Side of the Moon, "Too much feedback?! Where would rock music be without feedback?"

There's always the Carpenters. Minus the anorexia.

Every time you buy a ticket or purchase an album you might contributing to someone's drug abuse. Do you own a copy of Nevermind?

My favorite Buk book is Ham On Rye. It's about his childhood and early adulthood. It explains how he ended up in the way he did.

I wouldn't want to see Buk in a reading just to see him collapse from an alcohol overdose. But those shows were entertaining in their own right.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: A.M. Thomas on May 30, 2009, 01:24:57 AM
The documentary "Bukowski: Born Into This" (2002) is da bomb, I tell ya.

I wish I coulda attended one of his poetry readings before he died. I heard he'd get so drunk on stage that by the end of the night they had to carry him off.

Born Into This is a really good documentary besides being maybe my favorite Bukowski poem.  If anything, the guy certainly had an interesting life.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: spaceprophet on May 30, 2009, 01:36:47 AM
I do like Born Into This. I own that film and alot of his poetry and novels.

I want to apologize to some of the posters here. I didn't want to come off as wanting to see someone just to see them disintegrate on stage. No way. I was just simply stating that that is what happened once or twice at his readings.

I would think that if he were alive today he would side with me on this issue. My God, he wrote about it all the time and lived his life in this way.

Not saying this is a good way to live. But you can't deny that millions of people like his work.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Joe Rogaine on May 30, 2009, 03:02:53 AM
Hold on, the guy from the wet t-shirt scene in SUPERVAN was a writer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mODHEvNKpAQ

I like that song. Does it actually do that "this here is Charles Bukowski" thing in the film?
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: todd on May 30, 2009, 03:26:53 AM
The kind of person that likes to watch an alcoholic get drunk strikes me as the kind of person that loves to talk about their own self-diagnosed psychological disorders, or the torture they inflict upon themselves in the name of "their art."

Does that mean if you had the opportunity to go back in time and attend a Doors concert, uh let's see...circa 1970, or to see the Sex Pistols in a basement bar in London you'd say "I'll pass. I don't want to see self abusive and self indulgent rock stars."? They were all high to the gills.

My comment wasn't directed at you specifically. I can see why it sounded like it was, but I didn't mean it to come off like that. I do find that most Bukowski fans I meet celebrate his fucked up life, as if its something to be admired. I don't particularly give a shit that they do this, but I do find it absolutely stupid and worthy of mocking.

That said, your example couldn't have been worse: you couldn't pay me money to watch Jim Morrison do anything.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: spaceprophet on May 30, 2009, 10:24:18 PM
Touche'.

I feel the same way about the Shins. I have no idea if you like them or not, btw. But their stuff makes me want to vomit. And claw at my face like that dude in the kitchen in the movie Poltergeist.

Just thought I'd throw them in there since it was mentioned last week.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Tim K in DC on May 31, 2009, 07:58:36 AM
I wish I coulda attended one of his poetry readings before he died. I heard he'd get so drunk on stage that by the end of the night they had to carry him off.

A lot of students would go just to antagonize and challenge him, so there's some pretty mad heckling at times.  There are some good recordings of his readings, if you're interested.

My favorite Bukowski quote from a bootleg I heard of one of his readings where he was dealing with hecklers: "I'LL CLEAN OUT ALL YOU BABIES."

It was like Buk's version of "I'll turn this place into a carwash."
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: masterofsparks on May 31, 2009, 06:02:49 PM
I wish I coulda attended one of his poetry readings before he died. I heard he'd get so drunk on stage that by the end of the night they had to carry him off.

Do you like the Pogues? I think a Pogues show might fulfill your need for this type of entertainment.

Sounds like GG Allin to me, which is probably why I loathe Bukowski.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: iAmBaronVonTito on June 01, 2009, 12:27:28 PM
i dont get things like LA tours that will take you by the liquor store he frequented. 

yes, the pink one. 
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: hugman on June 01, 2009, 01:13:53 PM
his grave's pretty cool.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: fyodor on June 01, 2009, 07:53:08 PM
At one point in that documentary Born Into This it shows him going into this (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=376+W+6th+St,+san+pedro,+ca&sll=33.743112,-118.291039&sspn=0.021304,0.034461&ie=UTF8&ll=33.73875,-118.285182&spn=0.005326,0.008615&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=33.738752,-118.28507&panoid=Z3cPeE4-Tv1IX9oTNjoeQQ&cbp=12,342.34,,0,3.77) restaurant (http://www.yelp.com/biz/beach-city-grill-san-pedro). I go there from time to time so I asked the server (who has been there forever) if she knew about this. She informed me that not only did she know that he would come there but that she served him and he was a mean person.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: fonpr on June 01, 2009, 08:13:42 PM
\ he was a mean person.

I saw a movie where he kicked his wife in the leg, hard, while they were being interviewed.

That changed my opinion of him pretty quickly.

I felt saddened but then I asked myself: "What did you expect?"

Now I read Richard Downing poems instead.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: Steve of Bloomington on June 01, 2009, 08:57:29 PM
I didn't really get the impression he was nice from the stories about puking up blood and getting beat up and made to eat watermelon the bully had just had relations with and stuff.

Still, there's no excuse to be mean to your server at a restaurant. Tacky.
Title: Re: Mike doesn't like Bukowski?
Post by: orator on June 09, 2009, 06:13:58 PM
 Does anyone know what Bukowski poem this Tom Waits lyric is based off of?

Quote
Hey Charlie I'm pregnant
and living on 9th street
Above a dirty bookstore
Off Euclid avenue
I stopped takin' dope
I quit drinkin' whiskey
My old man plays the trombone
And works out at the track

He says that he loves me
Even though its not his baby
He says that he'll raise him up
Like he would his own son
He gave me a ring
That was worn by his mother
And he takes me out dancin
Every saturday night

Hey Charlie I think about you
Everytime I pass a fillin' station
On account of all the grease
You used to wear in your hair
I still have that record
Little Anthony and the Imperials
But someone stole my record player
How do you like that?

Hey Charlie I almost went crazy
After mario got busted
I went back to Omaha
To live with my folks
Everyone I used to know
Is either dead or in prison
So I came back to Minneapolis
This time I think I'm gonna stay

Hey Charlie I think I'm happy
The first time since my accident
Wish I had all the money
We used to spend on dope
I'd buy me a used car lot
I wouldn't sell any of 'em
I'd just drive a different car
Depending on how I feel

Hey Charlie for chrissakes
Wanna to know the truth of it?
Don't have a husband
He don't play the trombone
Need to borrow money
To pay this lawyer
And Charlie, hey
I'll be eligible for parole
Come valentines day

 I've always loved this song.

thanks