Humorless Politics Thread

[chrisfoll577]

Question:  I've never understood Ronald Reagan's appeal and now am especially mystified by the widespread claims that he was a great president.  Would one of you knowledgeable types explain to me what he is supposed to have done that is so great? 

He's purported to have brought down the "Evil Empire" with his profligate military spending and aggressive diplomatic stance. I also think having an articulate, avuncular movie star president gave 80's America a big self-esteem boost.  But then again, Jimmy Carter wasn't exactly a hard act to follow.

Come to think of it, I could definitely see Obama as a Democrat Reagan at the end of his term.  The parallels are there: hapless predecessor, faltering economy, eloquent speaker. There were also hints of "It's Morning in America" in his infomercial Wednesday night.

[Sarah]

So you're saying pretty much what I've been thinking, and it's really as simple-minded as that:  his current reputation is based on his supposed role in ending the Cold War.  Apparently, people choose to forget about his irresponsible and destructive economic policies, as well as all the other noxious shit that happened during his presidency. 

By the way, I think Ronald Reagan as a speaker was far more like Sarah Palin than Barack Obama.  He was not eloquent but slick, folksy, and dumb-enough-seeming to make people feel comfy.

[masterofsparks]

By the way, I think Ronald Reagan as a speaker was far more like Sarah Palin than Barack Obama.  He was not eloquent but slick, folksy, and dumb-enough-seeming to make people feel comfy.

Yeah, it seems like he was kind of the start of the whole idea that smarter does not equal better in politics. Say what you will about Jimmy Carter's presidency, but he was a very intelligent man. In fact, Reagan did something during their debate that Palin tried to do in her debate with Biden (though he was successful and she wasn't) - when Carter was giving facts and figures, Reagan shook his head and said "There you go again" (or something to that effect). Lee Atwater deserves a lot of the credit/blame for the success of this sort of thinking - he really sold the folksy/simple man stuff and sort of created what is now thought of as the Republican base.

[yesno]

Reagan is also given credit for the 80s economic boom. It makes as little sense to give him credit for that, as it does to blame Bush for the bubble-creating policies which started with Greenspan under Clinton, but that's how it goes.

Trick or treaters should not flashily display their cleavage: an observation.

I think Reagan's Challenger speech was pretty good. If Obama wins (insha' Allah) I hope he drops some literary references into his speeches. I'd really hope he takes FDR's Madison square gardens speech as a model but that's not gonna happen.

[Chris L]

I'd really hope he takes FDR's Madison square gardens speech as a model but that's not gonna happen.

That's the one where he said "If it wasn't for people like you, there could never be people like us," right?

[John Junk 2.0]

People love Reagan because he filled their streets with colorful shizophrenic "characters" that were formerly relegated to mental health hospitals where their folksy charm was wasted on dour nurses and cold, unfeeling psychiatrists.


I'd like to suggest that, if this Mormonism discussion continue, it be the flagship issue on a new Humorless Religion Thread.

[yesno]

I'd really hope he takes FDR's Madison square gardens speech as a model but that's not gonna happen.

That's the one where he said "If it wasn't for people like you, there could never be people like us," right?

Yeah, and it's where he coined the phrase "My friends."

[Sarah]

People love Reagan because he filled their streets with colorful shizophrenic "characters" that were formerly relegated to mental health hospitals where their folksy charm was wasted on dour nurses and cold, unfeeling psychiatrists.

Ah yes, how well I remember those days.  All of a sudden the streets of Boston overflowed with damaged people with rosy cheeks.  A side-effect of certain antipsychotic drugs, it conferred a certain Santalike cheer on their distracted visages.

[John Junk 2.0]

This is regarding Palin in New Port Richey:

"Joe Biden calls taxes patriotic," Palin said with disdain, punctuated with boos from the audience.

"Doggone, government is the problem, not the solution," Palin said.

Obama and Democrats had been spreading fear that Republicans might try to cut Medicare. "We will not cut a single Medicare benefit," Palin said.

This is a funny couple of lines, cause it's like

 "Boo!  Taxes"

"Government is the Problem Not the Solution!"

"...except when it's the solution and that solution is paid for by taxes.  We're not going to cut any of the solutions the government offers that are paid for by taxes but we are going to cut as many taxes as we can.  GOT IT?"

[JP]

Not sure what was insensitive, ignorant, or intolerant of bringing up the year this stuff went down.

Nobody said bringing up the "year [it] went" down was any of those things.  I was referring to the the "nutty" and "scientology" parts.  Did "shit is wacky" add any weight to my argument?

I just hopped that fellow free thinking people would begin to have shown a progressive attitude on religious issues. Mormons are just too easy to bully I guess because in the US they appear fairly well enfranchised, but a bit (or a lot as you may see it) "different."  I just know more restraint is shown by liberal thinkers for Sikhism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, Vodou, Hinduism, Budhism, most forms of Animism, or other "different" ideas.

Anyway. I don't think anybody actually wants a religion thread so I'm willing to drop it, but in the off chance anyone is interested, they can PM me.

[Trembling Eagle]

Not sure what was insensitive, ignorant, or intolerant of bringing up the year this stuff went down.

Nobody said bringing up the "year [it] went" down was any of those things.  I was referring to the the "nutty" and "scientology" parts.  Did "shit is wacky" add any weight to my argument?

I just hopped that fellow free thinking people would begin to have shown a progressive attitude on religious issues. Mormons are just too easy to bully I guess because in the US they appear fairly well enfranchised, but a bit (or a lot as you may see it) "different."  I just know more restraint is shown by liberal thinkers for Sikhism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, Vodou, Hinduism, Budhism, most forms of Animism, or other "different" ideas.

Anyway. I don't think anybody actually wants a religion thread so I'm willing to drop it, but in the off chance anyone is interested, they can PM me.

You like Romney are skirting the essential issue which is it was the policy of the LDS church that blacks were (are?) subhuman decedents of the biblical character Ham and as such were unfit to serve in the clergy and couldn't (can't?) go to heaven.

Neat little mental Jiu-Jitsu there painting someone who criticizes an organization with ideas like this as the small minded one.

[Steve of Bloomington]

McCain and Palin did a great job of motivating me to get off my ass and do some volunteer work for the Obama campaign, anyway.

Big night-n-day difference between what you see at the Palin rallies and what you see at Obama campaign HQ.

[Fido]

Not sure what was insensitive, ignorant, or intolerant of bringing up the year this stuff went down.

Nobody said bringing up the "year [it] went" down was any of those things.  I was referring to the the "nutty" and "scientology" parts.  Did "shit is wacky" add any weight to my argument?

I just hopped that fellow free thinking people would begin to have shown a progressive attitude on religious issues. Mormons are just too easy to bully I guess because in the US they appear fairly well enfranchised, but a bit (or a lot as you may see it) "different."  I just know more restraint is shown by liberal thinkers for Sikhism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, Vodou, Hinduism, Budhism, most forms of Animism, or other "different" ideas.

Anyway. I don't think anybody actually wants a religion thread so I'm willing to drop it, but in the off chance anyone is interested, they can PM me.

You like Romney are skirting the essential issue which is it was the policy of the LDS church that blacks were (are?) subhuman decedents of the biblical character Ham and as such were unfit to serve in the clergy and couldn't (can't?) go to heaven.

I'm generally sympathetic to charges of discrimination on the basis of religion, which is something that usually sucks. But of course plenty of religious groups practice discrimination themselves or worse.

Regarding Mormons, I just don't get terribly sympathetic feelings when charges of anti-Mormon discrimination are bandied about. I tend to think about all the gay kids who have grown up in Mormon homes and been made to feel like they are diseased and less than worthy human beings. That's just wrong. Also I remember that my cousin (who is not Mormon), while she lived in a predominantly Mormon town in Wyoming, really felt ostracized. There are worse things than that I suppose, but it's effectively the same kind of religious discrimination.

[Fido]

If Obama wins (insha' Allah) I hope he drops some literary references into his speeches.

I got a big kick out the inshallah thing, yesno.  I'd like to hear literary references but I'll settle for great eloquence. I'm greatly looking forward to (the possibility of, inshallah) an Obama presidency for that reason but concerned about how he'd fare in practically every other respect, given how f-ed up things are now.

Question: has Bush-as-crappy-president managed to lower expectations dramatically for the next president?

[Trembling Eagle]

Question: has Bush-as-crappy-president managed to lower expectations dramatically for the next president?

for sure McCain or Obama will get a year or more I think
not from Fox News if it's Obama but real media I think is going to be somewhat forgiving.