2009 MLB Thread

[scratchbomb]

On another note.  Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.

I was just wondering who might win the NL Cy Young this year. Nobody's having a Lincecum-esque year. Matt Cain's been pretty awesome. My guess is it'll go for whoever gets the most wins, because whenever there's no clear cut favorite, the voters always got for wins over stats that really matter.

[nec13]

There's no question about it, cheating has been going on in the game for as long as it has existed. Gaylord Perry scuffed baseballs. But people think that is charming in some way. The 1951 New York Giants stole signs in the pennant deciding game against the Dodgers. I suppose you could argue that there are varying degrees of cheating, with some actions being worse than others. I don't know if I buy into that line of thinking, however.

So you think every form of cheating is exactly the same?

No not every form of cheating is exactly the same, but it is still cheating nonetheless. What makes Graig Nettles (who once corked his bat with Superballs) any more pure than Manny Ramirez? When Gaylord Perry admits to scuffing baseballs, why is that we just blow it off? Is taking PED's really any worse than stealing signs? Most forms of cheating have an impact on the outcome of a game.

Ultimately, every player is looking for an edge on the competition. Cheating is a part of the game. Does it make cheating okay? No. But players aren't ever going to stop doing it.

[yesno]

Why isn't Tommy John surgery considered cheating?  There are lots of of pitchers who claim they pitch better after it.

Are people going to be up in arms in 50 years when genetically engineered supermen are playing the game?

Is Albert Pujols cheating by being superior to me in every way?  The fact that he happened to be born with genetic gifts making him a gifted athlete and me a skinny nobody, that's just not fair.  No matter how hard I worked I just wouldn't have a chance.

People are going to look back on our view of thinking that using drugs is cheating and laugh, because everyone is going to be using drugs to get better at everything.

I'm going to see Sunn O))) tonight.  I bet there are drugs to make me appreciate that more.

[hugman]

On another note.  Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.

I was just wondering who might win the NL Cy Young this year. Nobody's having a Lincecum-esque year. Matt Cain's been pretty awesome. My guess is it'll go for whoever gets the most wins, because whenever there's no clear cut favorite, the voters always got for wins over stats that really matter.

If Carpenter keeps pitching like he has all season he will win it.

[jbissell]

On another note.  Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.

I was just wondering who might win the NL Cy Young this year. Nobody's having a Lincecum-esque year. Matt Cain's been pretty awesome. My guess is it'll go for whoever gets the most wins, because whenever there's no clear cut favorite, the voters always got for wins over stats that really matter.

If Carpenter keeps pitching like he has all season he will win it.

You don't think Wainwright will get support? Or they might possibly split votes?  I didn't realize how close their numbers are now:
Carpenter 12-3, 2.27 ERA, 97 Ks, 0.98 WHIP, 130.2 IP
Wainwright 13-7, 2.73 ERA, 146 Ks, 1.27 WHIP, 165 IP

Carpenter obviously has a better winning percentage and a lower ERA but Wainwright has pitched 35 innings more and blows him away in Ks.  Besides Lincecum and Cain, I think they're the best 1-2 combo in the NL right now.

Haren seems to have taken his usual second half slide.

[hugman]

On another note.  Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.

I was just wondering who might win the NL Cy Young this year. Nobody's having a Lincecum-esque year. Matt Cain's been pretty awesome. My guess is it'll go for whoever gets the most wins, because whenever there's no clear cut favorite, the voters always got for wins over stats that really matter.

If Carpenter keeps pitching like he has all season he will win it.

You don't think Wainwright will get support? Or they might possibly split votes?  I didn't realize how close their numbers are now:
Carpenter 12-3, 2.27 ERA, 97 Ks, 0.98 WHIP, 130.2 IP
Wainwright 13-7, 2.73 ERA, 146 Ks, 1.27 WHIP, 165 IP

Carpenter obviously has a better winning percentage and a lower ERA but Wainwright has pitched 35 innings more and blows him away in Ks.  Besides Lincecum and Cain, I think they're the best 1-2 combo in the NL right now.

Haren seems to have taken his usual second half slide.

You may be right about Wainwright.  And I think Wainwright actually had a lower ERA before this last time through the rotation. I tend to form these opinions on gut without facts to back them up.  It's just my feeling from watching them pitch all season.  Now that you mention it, I'd love for Adam to get a Cy Young.  According to a graphic I saw last week, Carpenter gets stingier and stingier as the season progresses. We shall see.

[jbissell]

On another note.  Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.

I was just wondering who might win the NL Cy Young this year. Nobody's having a Lincecum-esque year. Matt Cain's been pretty awesome. My guess is it'll go for whoever gets the most wins, because whenever there's no clear cut favorite, the voters always got for wins over stats that really matter.

If Carpenter keeps pitching like he has all season he will win it.

You don't think Wainwright will get support? Or they might possibly split votes?  I didn't realize how close their numbers are now:
Carpenter 12-3, 2.27 ERA, 97 Ks, 0.98 WHIP, 130.2 IP
Wainwright 13-7, 2.73 ERA, 146 Ks, 1.27 WHIP, 165 IP

Carpenter obviously has a better winning percentage and a lower ERA but Wainwright has pitched 35 innings more and blows him away in Ks.  Besides Lincecum and Cain, I think they're the best 1-2 combo in the NL right now.

Haren seems to have taken his usual second half slide.

You may be right about Wainwright.  And I think Wainwright actually had a lower ERA before this last time through the rotation. I tend to form these opinions on gut without facts to back them up.  It's just my feeling from watching them pitch all season.  Now that you mention it, I'd love for Adam to get a Cy Young.  According to a graphic I saw last week, Carpenter gets stingier and stingier as the season progresses. We shall see.

I imagine Carpenter would be the favorite simply based on reputation alone, and considering all the injuries he's come back from the last few years.

[methanolcereal]

Sorry if i'm a little late to the party, but I didn't went to dredge through 37 pages of talk to see if this idea was floating around but, with the Cy Young talk on this page does anyone thinks that Lincecum may win it again? Last time I checked, he had the K's and the ERA, and was up there in wins. I haven't really been following the NL that close, so I don't know if I'm way off base with that. Sorry if this already came up.

[dave from knoxville]

On another note.  Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.

You win hugman.  I have officially given up on this season.

we'll see if the Cards maintain. Barring any more major injuries (KNOCK ON WOOD) I think they'll win the Central, and if they play the dodgers in the playoffs they'll beat them. The rest is up in the air.
A lot of teams just folded this year.
Still a lot of baseball left, though.

I like Carpenter fine, but if Dan Haren doesn't win the Cy Young, it's criminal.

[jbissell]

On another note.  Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.

You win hugman.  I have officially given up on this season.

we'll see if the Cards maintain. Barring any more major injuries (KNOCK ON WOOD) I think they'll win the Central, and if they play the dodgers in the playoffs they'll beat them. The rest is up in the air.
A lot of teams just folded this year.
Still a lot of baseball left, though.

I like Carpenter fine, but if Dan Haren doesn't win the Cy Young, it's criminal.

Why is it criminal?

Sure, his numbers before the All-Star break were fantastic but they've been sliding since then.  He's 4th in Ks, tied for 8th in wins, 5th in ERA.  Plus he's on one of the worst teams in the league.  Carpenter, Wainwright, Lincecum, and Cain have numbers that match his and they're in the playoff hunt.

[nec13]

Dan Haren is certainly a worthy Cy Young candidate. His candidacy shouldn't be diminished by factors beyond his control, primarily the poor performance of his teammates.

However, I disagree with Dave's assertion regarding Haren. My vote would go to Tim Lincecum. He is:

1st in the NL in ERA (2.193)
4th in the NL in wins (12)
3rd in the NL in WHIP (1.021)
1st in the NL in complete games (4)
1st in the NL in K/9 (10.706)
1st in the NL in K (205)
1st in the NL in Adjusted ERA+ (197)

He is having another dominant season and is helping to keep the Giants in playoff contention. His pitching has been particularly important considering the Giants lack of offensive punch outside of Pablo Sandoval and Bengie Molina.

With that being said, I wouldn't have any qualms with any of the aforementioned names winning the CYA, as they are all worthy candidates.

[Gilly]

Dan Haren has no shot anymore. He's always been a guy who slides in the second half and I don't see him putting up the numbers to compete with Carpenter or Lincecum. I would say if the numbers end up similar to where they are right now Lincecum gets it. There's no way you can give it to Carpenter who has the same stats at Lincecum minus 100 K's.

[hugman]

Dan Haren has no shot anymore. He's always been a guy who slides in the second half and I don't see him putting up the numbers to compete with Carpenter or Lincecum. I would say if the numbers end up similar to where they are right now Lincecum gets it. There's no way you can give it to Carpenter who has the same stats at Lincecum minus 100 K's.

I could be wrong, but I disagree.  Admittedly, I know very little about how they select the Cy Young winner, but too much emphasis on strikeouts seems misguided.  Carpenter has pitched to contact a lot more this year than in the past which is partly why the Cardinals lead the majors in double plays this season.  I'll take a double play over a strikeout any day.  Of course, then there's also the issue of in order to turn a double play someone had to have gotten on base in the first place which means a hit or a walk so I'll shut up now.

[scratchbomb]

You also have to differentiate between who should win it and who will win it. Because the baseball writers association is home to some of the laziest minds on earth.

Unless someone's having a monster year, the writers tend to vote awards for guys who have won (or come close to winning) before. And in the case of the Cy Young, they put way too much emphasis on wins. On that basis, I guess Carpenter and Lincecum would be the best bets to win. Not that neither would deserve it, but they'd probably get more votes than other guys who are having similarly good seasons (Matt Cain, Dan Haren) but haven't won it before.

[hugman]

Of course, Wainwright could win 20 games this year. Last night he became tied for most wins in the majors at 14.