Author Topic: Breaking Bad  (Read 83609 times)

CSW

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #480 on: October 03, 2013, 03:26:11 AM »
Todd died and Badfinger got a big bump-up in the public consciousness. I'm happy, dudes. That's all I need.

The blatant ripoff from No Country for Old Men didn't detract from your enjoyment of Todd's death?

It didn't detract from mine, but that's likely as I've never seen  No Country for Old Men

Not to defend Van Der Werff, CSW, but as somebody who's been on the receiving end of critics smart and stupid, I'd argue that he's trying to be a generous and effective critic (as opposed to a fan or viewer, for whom I agree with you, there is no such thing as an illegitimate response -- but critic is a very specific job description).  For example: I write a play that isn't kitchen-sink realism, and it gets ripped apart for not being kitchen-sink realism, that critic isn't very good.  S/he can say s/he hates anything that isn't kitchen sink realism, and that's fine.  But to treat a specific choice as a failure (as if I'd attempted kitchen-sink realism and failed) is sloppy criticism.  This is why Michiko Kakutani is a terrible book reviewer, because instead of just admitting she doesn't like Thomas Pynchon, she rails against him for not being Saul Bellow, as if the two had anything at all in common.

You' ve lost me a bit there as I don't know who any of the names you're referring to are and I don't know what kitchen-sink realism is. I will put that on my own ignorance.

See, I thought criticism was supposed to be "is/was it good" and thus "you should/shouldn't watch/hear/read it". I've never really seen the need for a critic to then turn it around into "oh, the creator meant this" etc. Only the creator can tell you that. No point trying to mind read them.

Then again Van Der Werff is the guy that said the show you (S2G) work on is really about the inner workings of a TV Writer's Room. Maybe you can chip in on that?

And he's also the guy that defended repeatedly Homeland Season 2, which really is the dumbest thing to have been on TV and considered "premium" in a long old while. I'd really like to know what Mike thought of that...

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Josh

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #481 on: October 03, 2013, 09:14:40 AM »
Aside from interpretation/contextualization, criticism's goal should be to judge a work by whether or not it successfully achieves what the work sets out to do but not what the critic wants the work to be or do. The critic may have different taste or values than the work (or the work's creators) but to evaluate a work based on that would be a personal essay (good/not good) and not criticism (success/failure). If a play takes place in a reality where children between ages 6 and 7 can fly, it's an invalid criticism to fault the play for being unrealistic.


You' ve lost me a bit there as I don't know who any of the names you're referring to are . . .
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cavorting with nudists

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #482 on: October 03, 2013, 09:19:28 AM »
Badfinger got a big bump-up in the public consciousness.

See, for those who are saying that song worked well in that place, I suspect this is really what it's about.
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B_Buster

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #483 on: October 03, 2013, 10:19:11 AM »

And he's also the guy that defended repeatedly Homeland Season 2, which really is the dumbest thing to have been on TV and considered "premium" in a long old while. I'd really like to know what Mike thought of that...

I watched the first two seasons of Homeland. I never bought the original premise, so I won't be continuing.
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Joe Rogaine

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #484 on: October 03, 2013, 11:42:38 AM »
Todd died and Badfinger got a big bump-up in the public consciousness. I'm happy, dudes. That's all I need.


Dont forget, and Jesse got away.

Shaggy 2 Grote

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #485 on: October 03, 2013, 05:45:13 PM »
Josh put it better than me.  But yes, if a critic's job were simply to give a thumbs up/down, they would be utterly unnecessary -- we have Amazon, Goodreads, Yelp, and a zillion other venues for that.  A good critic (like Pauline Kael, e.g.) can illustrate or illuminate the work in a way beyond just telling me whether I should spend my time/money on something.  There are critics I never agree with (like James Wood) whom I respect because of their degree of engagement and thoughtfulness, and others (like Anthony Lane) that I really enjoy reading because they're funny or good writers, but I don't think they're good critics.  At this point Lane reviewing a Star Wars or Marvel movie is just a stunt because we already know he's going to make fun of it.

Van Der Werff is partially right about MM, but it's not like anyone set out to do that.  Most shows use the dynamics of writers' rooms in their storylines.  There are a ton of writers' room dynamics in Breaking Bad, for example, especially the Walt/Gus/Jesse triangle.  And Walt is exactly like any number of embittered TV writers out there.  In the case of MM, it just so happens that the advertising and television industries are a lot alike (as MM itself often shows).
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B_Buster

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #486 on: October 03, 2013, 08:29:25 PM »
There are critics I never agree with (like James Wood) whom I respect because of their degree of engagement and thoughtfulness, and others (like Anthony Lane) that I really enjoy reading because they're funny or good writers, but I don't think they're good critics.  At this point Lane reviewing a Star Wars or Marvel movie is just a stunt because we already know he's going to make fun of it.


You never agree with James Wood? How can that be? A lot of the writers he likes are top notch (Chekhov, Woolf, Hamsun, Bellow, etc.). I don't always agree either, but you can usually count on him making a strong case for his point of view. And I love Lane's take downs of Hollywood blockbusters. Someone in the culture has to do it, why not someone who does it with such relish and gusto?

How 'bout Daniel Mendelsohn? Do you like him? He's the critic who took a lot of flak for having the guts to criticize Mad Men. He's also repulsed by Quentin Tarantino which was one of the reasons I find him so endearing.
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Trembling Eagle

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #487 on: October 04, 2013, 12:55:27 AM »
What don't you like about Tarantino Mike?

Kormodd

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #488 on: October 04, 2013, 10:16:56 AM »
"Tarantino Mike" made me think of Mike talking to a long-haired John Hodgman about how 4 Loko is called something different in Europe.
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B_Buster

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #489 on: October 04, 2013, 11:53:58 AM »
What don't you like about Tarantino Mike?

His work is derivative and immature.
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JesseFromVegas

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #490 on: October 04, 2013, 12:07:30 PM »
The immaturity is pretty much the only good thing about Tarantino

Joe Rogaine

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #491 on: October 04, 2013, 12:38:14 PM »
Mike can you check out the Mountain Xpress movies page?  My dream is to see you battle out over movie opinions with Ken Hanke, sad i know.



http://www.mountainx.com/movies/

~L

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Re: Breaking Bad SPOILER
« Reply #492 on: October 04, 2013, 02:43:10 PM »

Shaggy 2 Grote

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #493 on: October 04, 2013, 03:02:09 PM »
There are critics I never agree with (like James Wood) whom I respect because of their degree of engagement and thoughtfulness, and others (like Anthony Lane) that I really enjoy reading because they're funny or good writers, but I don't think they're good critics.  At this point Lane reviewing a Star Wars or Marvel movie is just a stunt because we already know he's going to make fun of it.


You never agree with James Wood? How can that be? A lot of the writers he likes are top notch (Chekhov, Woolf, Hamsun, Bellow, etc.). I don't always agree either, but you can usually count on him making a strong case for his point of view. And I love Lane's take downs of Hollywood blockbusters. Someone in the culture has to do it, why not someone who does it with such relish and gusto?

How 'bout Daniel Mendelsohn? Do you like him? He's the critic who took a lot of flak for having the guts to criticize Mad Men. He's also repulsed by Quentin Tarantino which was one of the reasons I find him so endearing.

I was imprecise -- I don't agree with Wood about a lot of contemporary authors.  I also don't get Bellow, incidentally, but to be fair I've only ever read Herzog and maybe I need to reread it.  And I stand by my assessment of Lane -- he's a funny writer, boring critic.

The only Mendelsohn I know is his MM critique.  I actually agreed with some of it (don't remember what offhand) but found a lot of it standard backlash contrarianism, which I think is just as dull as the kind of drooling consensus around the show.  But I can't get into a detailed discussion on this subject, for obvious reasons.
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B_Buster

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Re: Breaking Bad
« Reply #494 on: October 04, 2013, 09:40:22 PM »
Give The Adventures of Augie March a shot. It's amazing. Herzog was tough for me at first. I had a couple of false starts before I could get into it, but when I did I really enjoyed it. Humboldt's Gift is the other masterpiece.
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