Billy Corgan: Biggest creep in music?

[buffcoat]

Omar: I rate Mellon Collie pretty highly, I was saying (in agreement with you) that it's bloated.  It has a higher % of good songs than UYI I/II.

Scores are in comparison to "classic" Pumpkins.  I've just done what any half-decent A&R man should have done to this monster.

"Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" - Gentle instrumental.  Pretty memorable.  7.5
"Tonight, Tonight" - Really good.  9
"Jellybelly" - Cannot remember this song by title.  Listening to it now.  Solid, I listen to it if it comes up on the iPod.  Better than other songs like it on this record.  8. 
"Zero" - Great single.  8.5.
"Here Is No Why" - Here we reach the first one I would have cut.  B-side.  5.
"Bullet with Butterfly Wings" - Great first line.  Overplayed at this point.  7.5.
"To Forgive" - Better upon repeat listenings.  8.
"An Ode to No One" - Cut this one.  Save for the next outtakes record.  Good ending.  6.
"Love" - Foreshadowing their (his) later no-so-good stuff.  Cut.  3.5. 
"Cupid de Locke" - Foreshadowing his later, somewhat ok stuff.  On the border of cutting.  6.
"Galapogos" - Is this song about turtles?  Too much of the high-low happy-sad loud-quiet Corgan.  Outtake.  5.
"Muzzle" - The first line sums up the whole tortured genius thing.  Cut. 5.5.
"Porcelina of the Vast Oceans"  - This song is the perfect centerpiece for a curiosities record.  Cut from this project.  7.
"Take Me Down" - I hate all James Iha songs.  Learn from Gene Simmons, don't let your bad-singing guitarist... never mind.  1.


"Where Boys Fear to Tread" - This one-two punch should have opened the record.  9.5
"Bodies" - The best song on the album, for my money. 10.
"Thirty-Three" - Good.  8.
"In the Arms of Sleep" - Underrated.  I wish he wouldn't sing with the unbelievably whiny voice as opposed to the "wow, that's whiny" voice.  7.5
"1979" - Great single.  Overplayed now.  7.5.
"Tales of a Scorched Earth" - Much worse than the other heavy songs on MC.  3.
"Thru the Eyes of Ruby" - Absolute garbage.  Quit doing novelty songs.  3.
"Stumbleine" - The last good song on the record.  This belongs on Pisces Iscariot II.  6.
"X.Y.U." - Boring and gross.  3.
"We Only Come Out at Night" - There's a difference between Billy singing in that weird voice and just singing off-key.  3.5
"Beautiful" - Stop trying to involve the rest of the band.  2.
"Lily (My One and Only)" - Stop indulging yourself so much, Billy.  3.
"By Starlight" - Awful, awful, awful.  1.5.
"Farewell and Goodnight" - It's a good thing they stopped working together.  I wonder if those bearded dudes wrote songs.  2.

[Omar]

A 3 for "Thru The Eyes of Ruby"?! That's nuts.  In what context is this a "novelty song"?  It's one of the best songs on the album.

I would rate "Here Is No Why," "Muzzle," and some others a bit higher (I'd be lower on "Zero"), but these relative ratings are certainly reasonable.  I do recall thinking that "Cupid de Locke" was hideous, but perhaps I'm thinking of another track?  Wait, that's the one where Billy says "hath" and "doth," yes?  It is hideous!  I'd give that song a ... Zero!  Circa 1995-1996, I always got a charge out of the explosive end of "X.Y.U."  The post-"X.Y.U." stuff on Disc 2 does indeed end the set on a very dull note; the lullaby finale is quite fitting. 

Good call on that "Where Boys Fear to Tread"/"Bodies" 1-2 punch.

Should I start a thread on Veruca Salt?

[daveB from Oakland]

Based on this thread, I'm thinking at some point I should try and listen to "Mellon Collie" with open ears and an open heart. But man, some of those song titles. I think the "Mip Hamine" guy could have come up with better stuff than ...

"Jellybelly" ....

"Here Is No Why" ...

"Cupid de Locke" ...

"Porcelina of the Vast Oceans" ...

[Paul DeLouisiana]

The Smashing Pumpkins made me happy in highschool but I really feel no reason to revisit them. I can say the same about Oasis. It's weird to talk to someone in their 20s or 30s who still have these two near the top of their list.

[buffcoat]

A 3 for "Thru The Eyes of Ruby"?! That's nuts.  In what context is this a "novelty song"?  It's one of the best songs on the album.

Oops!  I didn't listen to them all.  I was confusing this one with "Lily, My One and Only," which I inexplicably reviewed twice.  I'm not a huge fan of "Thru the Eyes of Ruby," but I'd give it more like a 7.

I would rate "Here Is No Why," "Muzzle," and some others a bit higher (I'd be lower on "Zero"), but these relative ratings are certainly reasonable.  I do recall thinking that "Cupid de Locke" was hideous, but perhaps I'm thinking of another track?  Wait, that's the one where Billy says "hath" and "doth," yes?  It is hideous!  I'd give that song a ... Zero!  Circa 1995-1996, I always got a charge out of the explosive end of "X.Y.U."  The post-"X.Y.U." stuff on Disc 2 does indeed end the set on a very dull note; the lullaby finale is quite fitting. 

I didn't realize when I started how many of my least favorite songs are right in a row on the last side.  It's as if Roger Waters had put a long and bizarre song that's more like the angriest Andrew Lloyd Weber number ever on Side 4 of the Wall, but of course he wouldn't do that.

Good call on that "Where Boys Fear to Tread"/"Bodies" 1-2 punch.

I think I might even put this up as a dark horse for "best 1-2 punch" on any album.  I can't overstate how much I like these two and like them together as the start of a record (albeit of Disc 2).

Should I start a thread on Veruca Salt?

Well, you know... you... you can't fight... um ... Seether.

[Omar]

Should I start a thread on Veruca Salt?

Well, you know... you... you can't fight... um ... Seether.

I've decided against Veruca Salt thread creation.  I was unable to locate my erotic haiku about Nina Gordon, so it's pointless.

[CSW]

I think we all know that Gene Simmons is, and forever will be, the biggest creep in music.

[Anthony from Ireland]

aw, I really like the second half of disc 2 of Mellon Collie.
Initially I thought Tales Of A Scorched Earth was heavy by numbers but now it's one of my favourites. I love the production on that song.
I was a big fan of the Pumpkins up to that album. Saw an interview with Billy on Irish TV around the Mellon Collie time and thought he was cool. Made a lot of good points and came across as an enthusiastic musician who loved what he was doing.
I think the craziness came with the baldness. By the time Adore came out I wasn't bothered.

[buffcoat]

aw, I really like the second half of disc 2 of Mellon Collie.
Initially I thought Tales Of A Scorched Earth was heavy by numbers but now it's one of my favourites. I love the production on that song.
I was a big fan of the Pumpkins up to that album. Saw an interview with Billy on Irish TV around the Mellon Collie time and thought he was cool. Made a lot of good points and came across as an enthusiastic musician who loved what he was doing.
I think the craziness came with the baldness. By the time Adore came out I wasn't bothered.

Gummoer, 

"We Only Come Out at Night"
"Beautiful"
"Lily (My One and Only)"
"By Starlight"
"Farewell and Goodnight"

I really like Siamese Dream and most of Gish and most of Adore (and a lot of Mellon Collie).  These songs make me angry at Billy Corgan for some reason - maybe because they are all sort of a departure from anything they did before or since?  I think it makes sense to either like or dislike them as a group.

It's funny that people can have such divergent thoughts about parts of a band's oeuvre. 

I'm still waiting for a full-throated defense of Peter Criss' solo album.  Surely someone out there likes it!

[Anthony from Ireland]

yep, I like that little section of the album. Happily play just that section sometimes.

[puppycity]

This is one take on his setup
http://www.uberproaudio.com/who-plays-what/117-smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-guitar-gear-rig-and-equipment

I saw the Smashing Pumpkins close a show in Randal Island about 10 years ago and Corgan got into an argument with a guy in a Pantera shirt long enough that Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds were no longer able to take the stage by the time he got off his soapbox due to time constraints. It was like getting a lecture at an Allman Brother show.

[buffcoat]

This is one take on his setup
http://www.uberproaudio.com/who-plays-what/117-smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-guitar-gear-rig-and-equipment

I saw the Smashing Pumpkins close a show in Randal Island about 10 years ago and Corgan got into an argument with a guy in a Pantera shirt long enough that Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds were no longer able to take the stage by the time he got off his soapbox due to time constraints. It was like getting a lecture at an Allman Brother show.

Dickey Betts was famous for his disquisitions at the Fillmore, if memory serves.

[Omar]

"Take Me Down" - I hate all James Iha songs.  Learn from Gene Simmons, don't let your bad-singing guitarist... never mind.  1.

I would generally agree, although I've always enjoyed Jim's "The Boy" from the "1979 single.  It's a good pop ditty to my ears.

Smashing Pumpkins - The Boy

[nec13]

Hexen may be the greatest thing that Billy Corgan was ever a part of.

HEXEN Song1 1985

[buffcoat]

"Take Me Down" - I hate all James Iha songs.  Learn from Gene Simmons, don't let your bad-singing guitarist... never mind.  1.

I would generally agree, although I've always enjoyed Jim's "The Boy" from the "1979 single.  It's a good pop ditty to my ears.

Smashing Pumpkins - The Boy

This is better than his other stuff.  Just can't stand his singing.