The Joy Thread

[Shaggy 2 Grote]

I forget the name of the law (my memory is saying The Brewer & Shipley act, but that can't be right), but some time in the first half of the 20th century - maybe right after WW2?  The Democrats and Republicans passed a law that basically makes third parties completely untenable.  The emergence of the Republicans in the 19th century demonstrates that it is possible for a new party to emerge and take the place of a dying party - for a brief time I thought this might happen with the Greens and the Democrats, but the current legal framework makes this impossible.

Boo on Prop. 8.  I hope all those nice gay couples come back east to Jersey and Massachusetts and prop up the economy and go to plays and cultural events and generally make things look nicer.

[Trembling Eagle]

[yesno]

I forget the name of the law (my memory is saying The Brewer & Shipley act, but that can't be right), but some time in the first half of the 20th century - maybe right after WW2?  The Democrats and Republicans passed a law that basically makes third parties completely untenable.  The emergence of the Republicans in the 19th century demonstrates that it is possible for a new party to emerge and take the place of a dying party - for a brief time I thought this might happen with the Greens and the Democrats, but the current legal framework makes this impossible.

As far as I know it's mostly state laws that stand in the way of third party ballot access.  Either way there are definitely dumb laws that make it hard for a new party to get traction, but essentially every country that has a plurality voting systems ends up with a two party system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvergers_Law

It's actually Duverger's tendency.  Some say that the groups that would have seats in the legislature under a proportional system have to be appeased by the major parties, but that doesn't ever seem to really happen.

Arrow's Theorem shows that there's no such thing as a perfect voting system.  But preferential voting or proportional representation would definitely be closer.  On the other hand, stability can be a good thing, too, as long as you've stabilized on something good.  I'm not sure we should emulate the Italian model of government.

[Big Plastic Head]

Boo on Prop. 8.  I hope all those nice gay couples come back east to Jersey and Massachusetts and prop up the economy and go to plays and cultural events and generally make things look nicer.

Seroisly. WTF California!?! I am from that state and thought FOR SURE this would be defeated. What a disappointment. All my friends in CA are just a surprised...

BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[Gilly]

Is there a demographic chart that shows how California might have voted on that issue?

[samir]

here's how it broke down regionally:

[yesno]

I read that about 70% of African Americans and 2/3 of Hispanics voted for the amendment, so increased turnout for Obama probably killed it.

Many traditional Democratic constituencies are socially conservative in a lot of ways-- not just minorities but unions, etc.

[Fido]

It's amazing to me that Prop 8 even won in LA county. I'm wondering, did Gavin Newsom's statements to the effect of "Gay marriage is reality now, get used to it" result in kind of a we'll-show-them mentality among voters? Or is this just good old fashioned backlash? Either way, pretty childish, if you ask me.

I agree with your statement about traditional Democratic constituencies, yesno, but I hate to jump to the conclusion that we should blame the minorities for Prop 8 passing. Especially when there's that swath of counties all the way up the Central Valley where it won. I know there are lots of Latino voters there, but still.

I don't want to forget to mention how happy I am too. Even though Obama is walking into a hell of a tough situation.

[Gilly]

I read that about 70% of African Americans and 2/3 of Hispanics voted for the amendment, so increased turnout for Obama probably killed it.

That's what I figured but I don't know if I'll ever understand why that is.

[JamesU]

I was going to post about all of the joyous voice mails I got at 11:01 from family and friends but all this Prop 8 shit is bringing me down. Isn't it the joy thread??

[A.M. Thomas]

Can someone please explain to me how banning gay marriage is constitutional?  By defining marriage as being between a man and a woman, an definition inherent to some religions, aren't we going against our freedom of religion?  I'm not just asking rhetorically; I really want to know if these same-sex marriage bans actually violate my rights.

Sorry to continue to bring down the joy thread.

[Trembling Eagle]

I just want to say again the LDS morons and the Catholic church sponsored/funded those bills



they get sensitive when you call them on their hocus pocus bullshit and their child raping but have no problems interfering in the private lives of Americans.


In a way it's good, maybe progressives will start taking a harder stance.

[yesno]

Can someone please explain to me how banning gay marriage is constitutional?  By defining marriage as being between a man and a woman, an definition inherent to some religions, aren't we going against our freedom of religion?  I'm not just asking rhetorically; I really want to know if these same-sex marriage bans actually violate my rights.

Sorry to continue to bring down the joy thread.

It would take forever, but laws governing behavior usually aren't seen to violate the first amendment even if they happen to interfere with someone's religious beliefs (peyote) or enshrine someone else's obviously religiously-inspired belief (sunday blue laws).

I'd follow the ACLU lawsuit which raises the most plausible claim, that the amendment violates the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment.  But that'll lose, too.

[iAmBaronVonTito]

i didnt get drunk and i didnt eat pizza, but listening to obama's speech gave me goosebumps.

one thing that brought me down was mccain's concession speech.  nothing to do with mccain, but more or less his supporters here in phoenix.  all he had to do was say, "barack obama, " and everyone BOO'd their little lungs out.  juvenile, classless nonsense in my opinion- what sore losers.

[chrisfoll577]

i didnt get drunk and i didnt eat pizza, but listening to obama's speech gave me goosebumps.

one thing that brought me down was mccain's concession speech.  nothing to do with mccain, but more or less his supporters here in phoenix.  all he had to do was say, "barack obama, " and everyone BOO'd their little lungs out.  juvenile, classless nonsense in my opinion- what sore losers.

In all fairness, that almost always happens at concession speeches.