The Real World Brooklyn has first transgendered member

[John Junk 2.0]

I thought the fear is more like you're about to be fucking and then you're like "what the fuck is happening here?!" because my understanding is a transgendered crotch is still not going to look or feel "normal" unless it was the kind of thing where someone was already like 95% one or the other. 

Interest in ID-ing the transgendered cast member is fair enough, it's this insistence on keeping up with the cast of the Real World in general that disturbs me.

In conclusion, I think it's the white chick because she looks kinda like a dude, unlike the black chick, who kinda looks like a dude in drag.

[Sarah]

I thought the fear is more like you're about to be fucking and then you're like "what the fuck is happening here?!" because my understanding is a transgendered crotch is still not going to look or feel "normal" unless it was the kind of thing where someone was already like 95% one or the other. 

Really?  In my experience, the fear stems from the fact that many (dumb and homophobic) men think that fucking a woman who used to be a man makes them gay.

[WavyGravy]

Yeah.  What intolerant assholes. 



*Sorry, Sarah. I guess I mean: Your opinion isn't really....my cup of tea?

[Steve of Bloomington]

I thought the fear is more like you're about to be fucking and then you're like "what the fuck is happening here?!" because my understanding is a transgendered crotch is still not going to look or feel "normal" unless it was the kind of thing where someone was already like 95% one or the other. 

Really?  In my experience, the fear stems from the fact that many (dumb and homophobic) men think that fucking a woman who used to be a man makes them gay.

Some dudes think masturbation makes them gay.  The dumbness and homophobicity knows no bounds for some dudes.

[Sarah]

I admired the dryness of your riposte, wavy.  You homophobe, you.

[Denim Gremlin]

I agree with you Sarah.

but i think it's more indicative of a kind of sexism in most guys than it is a homophobia. It's judging a woman based on whether or not you would have sex with her.

[Sarah]

But it's more than just sexism.  First, there's the question of judging women according to whether one wants to fuck then, and, second, there's the notion that there is something wrong/off/unsavory/weird/gay/take your choice with a woman if she's transgender.

[Denim Gremlin]

you're right.

I just reread what I posted I didn't articulate what I was thinking right.

I should've said it was that in addition to the obvious homophobia that most men have towards trans people, that there's a whole macho sexist thing in there too.

[Sarah]

In that case, yup, we agree.  Ain't it a wonderful world?

[Denim Gremlin]

totally

[Trembling Eagle]

But it's more than just sexism.  First, there's the question of judging women according to whether one wants to fuck then, and, second, there's the notion that there is something wrong/off/unsavory/weird/gay/take your choice with a woman if she's transgender.

wow, so you are totally ready to accept every TS/TV into the female sisterhood no questions asked? Like they are just as much a woman as you end of story? I don't want to be biased here but that seems like a leap. At the very least we are talking about people who have been socialized differently than every other female. I mean where do you draw the line will you accept cross dressers into the sisterhood?

I don't want to belittle their plight but there is some difference there I think between their struggle and that of biological females.

[Sarah]

I don't really cotton to the concept of sisterhood.  I know women who were taught by their mothers to flirt, who treat their sons like kings and their daughters like suspects, who think of me as some kind of alien.  Sisterhood doesn't play much of a role in my relationships with them.  Sure, if a lady who only became such physically in her twenties started likening her childhood experiences to mine, I'd scoff (and probably suggest hers were probably tougher), but I wouldn't have any trouble accepting her as a woman now.  Hell, I don't have trouble accepting committed transvestites as women.  Silly women, in my view, since they seek out the very trappings of femaledom that I reject, such as heels, makeup, and push-up bras, but women nonetheless.

In sum, sisterhood, schmisterhood.

[Trembling Eagle]

I don't really cotton to the concept of sisterhood.  I know women who were taught by their mothers to flirt, who treat their sons like kings and their daughters like suspects, who think of me as some kind of alien.  Sisterhood doesn't play much of a role in my relationships with them.  Sure, if a lady who only became such physically in her twenties started likening her childhood experiences to mine, I'd scoff (and probably suggest hers were probably tougher), but I wouldn't have any trouble accepting her as a woman now.  Hell, I don't have trouble accepting committed transvestites as women.  Silly women, in my view, since they seek out the very trappings of femaledom that I reject, such as heels, makeup, and push-up bras, but women nonetheless.

In sum, sisterhood, schmisterhood.

You are ready to give them as much say in women's political issues?

I guess you are coming from the angle that the differences between the sexes is more socialization than anything?

That's a noble progressive place to come from but I don't think that's the consensus view even among the very liberal.

[Sarah]

Gee, and I always strive so hard to keep in line with mainstream liberal positions on these matters.

Why shouldn't they have as much say?  What difference would it make?  What proportion of the female population is transgender?  A fairly tiny one, I'm guessing, so it's not as though there'd be a tyranny of the tranny.  Indeed, care should be taken that their concerns aren't lost in the shuffle.

As to the difference between the sexes, I think a great deal of it is environmental; the rest is hormonal, and transgenders are chockablock full of those.

[Trembling Eagle]

Gee, and I always strive so hard to keep in line with mainstream liberal positions on these matters.

Why shouldn't they have as much say?  What difference would it make?  What proportion of the female population is transgender?  A fairly tiny one, I'm guessing, so it's not as though there'd be a tyranny of the tranny.  Indeed, care should be taken that their concerns aren't lost in the shuffle.

As to the difference between the sexes, I think a great deal of it is environmental; the rest is hormonal, and transgenders are chockablock full of those.

OK, are we agreeing that women have distinct social-political interests in our society and in the greater world? Reproductive rights, economic parity etc..