Theologicamol Questions

[Spalding]

Pastor Josh:

Is there a difference (theologically, socially, or other) between a Wesley United Methodist church and other UMCs? I attended one a couple of times and it seemed more conservative than other UMCs I've been to.


Interesting to hear about you going to Eden. I went to undergrad across the street at Webster and spent many work-study hours shifting books in the shared Eden-Webster liibrary. That was/is a unique example of ecumenicalism - a former Catholic women's college and a Protestant seminary sharing a library.

[Pastor Josh]

Pastor Josh,

Please enlighten me!

First, what is standard treatment for churchaphobia? I feel like a freak. It even happens at church rummage sales. Have you come across many cases of this? I'm embarrassed to ask my doctor and I'm not joking.

Second, how could I find something to believe in? What sort of brain processes are involved when you take a leap of faith? Is there a secret way to trick yourself?

Third, I am terrified of ghosts but don't believe in them. Do you believe in ghosts?

Thank you,

Julie

Julie, lots of people have been hurt by churches.  Has this happened to you?  Or do you fear judgment?  Whichever, actually, a lot of people are afraid of church, and that's because of how the church has treated people.  Most people who fear churches do so with good reason, the same reason they fear snakes or falling.  There are a lot of bad churches, and many people have been deeply hurt by them.  All I can recommend is looking for a church that specializes in welcoming outsiders.  These aren't always easy to find, but places to begin might be UCC churches that advertize as Open and Affirming or United Methodist Churches that advertize as Reconciling.  These lables specifically mean that homosexuals are welcome, btu these churches usually do a great job of welcoming alll strangers.  Most denominations have similar labels, and a little work on Google might find one near your home that looks good.  You might even call the church and ask to speak to a new member before attending and find out what his/her experience was like.  It still might be a time of trial and error to find a good church, though.  Unfortunately, churches have a long tradition of treating strangers like crap.

I wouldn't too hung up on believing or not believing.  If you're really searching, hopefully you'll find a church where others' beliefs lead them to live in a God-centered way that speaks to you.  If this happens, the trick is to act first and let belief come.  If you see others really testify to God's love with their lives, then try acting as if they're right about what they believe.  If they are, then living as if God were real and loving will lead you to whatever belief you find necessary.  In short, people need to join the community (not necessarily the church), then believe, not the other way around.  We've been doing it wrong for centuries.

And, no, I don't believe in ghosts, but ghost stories and haunted places scare the crap out of me, too.  I have an uncle who works at a supposedly haunted theater, and I love to go there at night when there's nothing going on.  Really spooky.

[Pastor Josh]

Pastor Josh:

Is there a difference (theologically, socially, or other) between a Wesley United Methodist church and other UMCs? I attended one a couple of times and it seemed more conservative than other UMCs I've been to.


Interesting to hear about you going to Eden. I went to undergrad across the street at Webster and spent many work-study hours shifting books in the shared Eden-Webster liibrary. That was/is a unique example of ecumenicalism - a former Catholic women's college and a Protestant seminary sharing a library.

Eden and Webster no longer share a library builing, although we're technically the theology branch of the Webster library system.  We have a fairly new library that looks like a bunch of damn tree-worshipers built it.  On three sides of the quad are historic brick buildings with Greek text enscribed above the doorways.  On the fourth, something that looks like where the Gummi Bears would go to church.

In general, if a church isn't [Place name] UMC or First UMC, then it was the second or third or whatever to the area.  Wesley, Grace, and Trinity are probably the three most popular names for those churches.  (John Welsey was the founder of Methodism, for those who don't know.)  I don't know why, but Welseys do seem to be more conservative.  Often, they are the smaller church on a two-point charge, so they get less attention from the pastor.  It's probably just observation bias, beacuse I've only been a part of a handful of such churches, and most of my life has been spent in fairly conservative places.  But it does seem that in general the non-First or -Place Name churches are more conservative.  Often, this seems to be an indentity thing, to differentiate them from a larger church the conference might want them to merge with.  This isn't a hard and fast rule, however.  One of the most consevrative churches I ever attended wa sa First UMC in Arkansas.  You wouldn't know it wasn't Southern Baptist if it hadn't been for the sign.

[Julie]

Hi, one or more things. Why did they replace the organs with folk singers? Also, what do you think of Christian musicians that try to sound and look like real musicians? What do you think of Christianity as a brand? Do you ever go to mass and feel like you are at the mall, or vice versa? Why is all of the beauty disappearing from the world? Should I join a cult, since I like to be a follower? Are cults really bad?

[Pastor Josh]

Hi, one or more things. Why did they replace the organs with folk singers? Also, what do you think of Christian musicians that try to sound and look like real musicians? What do you think of Christianity as a brand? Do you ever go to mass and feel like you are at the mall, or vice versa? Why is all of the beauty disappearing from the world? Should I join a cult, since I like to be a follower? Are cults really bad?

I'm not a big fan of contemporary Christian music, mainly though because I don't like crappy music.  As I've said earlier, the only Christian musician I like right now is Sufjan Stevens.  I think any time a musician limits him- or herself to one topic, whether it's Jesus or love or rockin', the get pretty stale pretty quick.  I prefer more traditional worship, myself, lots of liturgy and older hymns, but the sad thing is that there aren't many organists left.  It's a really difficult instrument to learn, and there aren't many applications for it.  Organs are also really, really expensive to maintain, so even big churches are starting to get rid of them.  It's sad, but some of the newer electric organs don't sound terrible.  Also, though, "contemporary Christian" music is one way that some churches think is a good way to reach out to the unchurched, but it's an idea on it's way out.  Too many Jimmy Buffet wannabees driving off people who actually like music.

I have been to churches that felt more like malls, and I hate them.  It bugs me when churches conform to the culture rather than oppose it.  Don't get me started on flags.

Please, please stay away form Scientology.  Jehovah's Witnesses are usually really great people, although personally I'd miss Christmas.  A religion is just a cult plus time, but I guess it depends on what the cult is asking you to do.  Anything that demands you sever ties with anyone not a member of th cult (and lots of Christian congregations do this, actually), is probably a bad idea.  So is handing over everything you own.  But if you're interested in being a follower, you can do that in an old-fashioned cult, like a church. 

As to why all the beauty is disappearing from the world, I think it's just that beauty gets tired of being in the same places all the time.  We just have to look for it in new places.

[jed]

PJ: Do you recommend any histories of Christianity/Jesus?  One that's, say, analytical without being smarmy and overly critical.

WHat are you looking for, exactly?  I recently finished a book called _Meeting Jesus Agian for the First Time_ by Marcus Borg, and it was an interesting discussion of how the historical man Jesus became the being we confess as CHrist.  I don't agree with the whole book, but it's an interesting read.  The Jesus Seminar has some good books that look at the actual historical reality in which Jesus lived, although there isn't much about Jesus himself in most of them since there's almost no non-biblical evidence for his existence.  Justo Gonzalez wrote a pretty good series called _The History of Christianity_, which is a good but non-proselytizing summary of our history written by a believer.  Does this help?

I'm more of an N.T. Wright fan. Ever since a Jesus Seminar guy told me he used to think of Jesus as a wise sage but now he thinks, and I quote, "Gangsta' rapper, like 50 cent" I lost interest.

[Steve of Bloomington]

Jesus was no gangsta rapper.  I see him as being more like Q-Tip.

PJ: Do you recommend any histories of Christianity/Jesus?  One that's, say, analytical without being smarmy and overly critical.

WHat are you looking for, exactly?  I recently finished a book called _Meeting Jesus Agian for the First Time_ by Marcus Borg, and it was an interesting discussion of how the historical man Jesus became the being we confess as CHrist.  I don't agree with the whole book, but it's an interesting read.  The Jesus Seminar has some good books that look at the actual historical reality in which Jesus lived, although there isn't much about Jesus himself in most of them since there's almost no non-biblical evidence for his existence.  Justo Gonzalez wrote a pretty good series called _The History of Christianity_, which is a good but non-proselytizing summary of our history written by a believer.  Does this help?

I'm more of an N.T. Wright fan. Ever since a Jesus Seminar guy told me he used to think of Jesus as a wise sage but now he thinks, and I quote, "Gangsta' rapper, like 50 cent" I lost interest.

[Denim Gremlin]

pastor josh,

do you think that in '66 the Beatles were actually more popular than Jesus?

[Gilly]

Are there any labels right now that are as cool as Tooth and Nail used to be? In the mid-late 90's that was a killer label with a ton of great bands on it that were original instead of trying to mimic what was cool 5 years ago. That's the problem with Christian music. It's a tool rather than an art form; a way to get kids interested in Christianity. I don't have a problem with that but it's hard to appreciate music without any originality that's aimed either at 15 year old kids or people who like adult contemporary.

[Steve of Bloomington]

I can see what Christian musicians are trying to do, but if that worked I probably would have been a Rastafarian by now.

[Pastor Josh]

PJ: Do you recommend any histories of Christianity/Jesus?  One that's, say, analytical without being smarmy and overly critical.

WHat are you looking for, exactly?  I recently finished a book called _Meeting Jesus Agian for the First Time_ by Marcus Borg, and it was an interesting discussion of how the historical man Jesus became the being we confess as CHrist.  I don't agree with the whole book, but it's an interesting read.  The Jesus Seminar has some good books that look at the actual historical reality in which Jesus lived, although there isn't much about Jesus himself in most of them since there's almost no non-biblical evidence for his existence.  Justo Gonzalez wrote a pretty good series called _The History of Christianity_, which is a good but non-proselytizing summary of our history written by a believer.  Does this help?

I'm more of an N.T. Wright fan. Ever since a Jesus Seminar guy told me he used to think of Jesus as a wise sage but now he thinks, and I quote, "Gangsta' rapper, like 50 cent" I lost interest.

Yeah, the Seminar can try too hard to be relevant, but they have some good ides.  Theologically, I'm more in the NT Wright camp.  I love what the seminar has to say about the world of First-Century Palestine, though.  No one else is even trying to address those historical realities.

[Pastor Josh]

pastor josh,

do you think that in '66 the Beatles were actually more popular than Jesus?

Interesting question.  Jesus was certianly popular in the nineties, what with WWJD emblazoned on everything.  I don't know about 1966.  Probably.  The Beatles were probably more influential on more people than Jesus was.  Hmm.  Yes, in 1966 the Beatles were more popular than Jesus.

[Pastor Josh]

Are there any labels right now that are as cool as Tooth and Nail used to be? In the mid-late 90's that was a killer label with a ton of great bands on it that were original instead of trying to mimic what was cool 5 years ago. That's the problem with Christian music. It's a tool rather than an art form; a way to get kids interested in Christianity. I don't have a problem with that but it's hard to appreciate music without any originality that's aimed either at 15 year old kids or people who like adult contemporary.

Other than some of the stuff already discussed on this board, I don't know of any Christian music that's at all interesting.  Anyone else?

[dave from knoxville]

Are there any labels right now that are as cool as Tooth and Nail used to be? In the mid-late 90's that was a killer label with a ton of great bands on it that were original instead of trying to mimic what was cool 5 years ago. That's the problem with Christian music. It's a tool rather than an art form; a way to get kids interested in Christianity. I don't have a problem with that but it's hard to appreciate music without any originality that's aimed either at 15 year old kids or people who like adult contemporary.

Other than some of the stuff already discussed on this board, I don't know of any Christian music that's at all interesting.  Anyone else?

Well, most of the good stuff is really hard to find, but Chagall Guevara was sort of interesting for their one album, and Bruce Cockburn's always worth a listen or two. Most of it's like grade-C propaganda, though.

[nec13]

Other than some of the stuff already discussed on this board, I don't know of any Christian music that's at all interesting.  Anyone else?

How about Larry Norman? Or was he mentioned already?