FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Regular Joe on May 11, 2009, 11:54:13 AM
-
I'm totally loving this show these days. In particular, the run of episodes starting with the Bob Odenkirk appearances have been massively entertaining television. For me, it's great to see such an obvious Sopranos clone go on to do it's own thing and do it so well. Do you watch it? I feel it needs this thread to honor it.
-
The first disc of season one is on its way to me via Netflix. I've heard lots of good things about it, so I look forward to checking it out. I hope it's better than Burn Notice, which I recently decided to check out. I made it through two episodes before sending it back.
-
I've seen the first three episodes and couldn't really jibe with it, despite Cranston's performance and an interesting plot. There were already elements that seemed too cartoonish, like the sister and her husband, so when I read somewhere that Walt becomes a "swaggering badass" I kinda lost interest. Is that a fair assessment of what happens?
-
nah, "swaggering badass" is a gross oversimplification. it takes some really great twists and turns and has some really funny moments, too.
although lsat night's episode was a snooze.
-
It's an awesome show.
The end.
-
I like the scene where Walt beat the shit out of that kid after he picked on his son.
-
The first disc of season one is on its way to me via Netflix. I've heard lots of good things about it, so I look forward to checking it out. I hope it's better than Burn Notice, which I recently decided to check out. I made it through two episodes before sending it back.
I like Burn Notice a lot, the same way I like fruit candy a lot. Too much of it would make me hate it, but it's a lot of fun at an hour a week.
-
Correction to Hugman: last night's episode was only a snooze if you don't like to celebrate things that are awesome.
Note to Chris L: the Hank character does start off a bit cartoonish, probably intentionally so, before progressing into something much less so.
-
Breaking Bad is good and often fun.
Burn Notice is fun and good for what it is.
-
OK, disc 2 of season 1 should ship tomorrow. I still think this show should've been called A Meth Lab of One's Own, though.
-
although lsat night's episode was a snooze.
Hey, last night was a 'housecleaning' episode. With shows like this you can't have the same pacing every episode or it gets monotonous. Picture last night as a performance of "I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend" in the middle of a bang-bang-bang Ramones set. It allows a larger story to be told with dynamics.
And I'll take a 'housecleaning' episode of Breaking Bad before the best episode of 95% of all other dramas.
-
it's great to see such an obvious Sopranos clone
uh, what?
Anyways, great show.
-
I don't think it is or was a Sopranos clone, but it's definitely influenced by that show in a good way.
Personally, I think it's the best show going right now. What is better? Nothing that I can think of.
-
I've seen the first three episodes and couldn't really jibe with it, despite Cranston's performance and an interesting plot. There were already elements that seemed too cartoonish, like the sister and her husband, so when I read somewhere that Walt becomes a "swaggering badass" I kinda lost interest. Is that a fair assessment of what happens?
For the better part of the first season I would have to agree with you completely. They have done a much better job of giving those two characters flesh this season, although they are still the weakest part of the show.
it's great to see such an obvious Sopranos clone
uh, what?
Anyways, great show.
When I say Sopranos clone, I mean it was one of those edgy hour long shows that filled the Sopranos gap, while riding its coattails a bit. The family man/criminal element is one part of it, as are the cinematic music choices and the careful blending of comedy into the drama. Saying its an "obvious" clone is a mistake I suppose, as it's not a direct rip-off or anything. Just in a similar vein, which is to say a vein of quality scripted serial television.
I missed a lot of last nights episode, but when I caught the scene of Walt in the Home Depot grading the meth heads supplies, I lost my shit.
-
I think that's a little too vague to be even close to a "clone." Yes, some elements are similar but the show itself doesn't feel anything like Sopranos.
-
Dear nitpickers,
GET OFF MY BACK ABOUT THE CLONE THING, WOULD YA. I do still feel Breaking Bad owes a great deal to both the plot of The Sopranos and the way it changed the climate of television in general, but I will no longer refer to it as a clone. I only meant it started out that way, in the premise, anyhow. It's obviously doing it's own unique thing now, which I can only be grateful for.
-
Dude, relax.
-
You wanna throw down, Joe? Because I will throw down.
-
This thread is Breaking Bad.
-
Dude, relax.
Why don't you relax, clone.
You wanna throw down, Joe? Because I will throw down.
No, I don't, but I am going to call the FBI on you for threatening my life.
I'm going to cook meth in your skulls.
-
The introduction of Bob Odenkirk's character was the icing on the already delicious cake.
-
I have caught a few hours of this show scattered about and am considering starting from the top. Maybe it's just the episodes I saw, but it seems as if 85% of the story takes place inside of a Winnebago in the desert. Is there much more to the show?
I also like Bryan Cranston the actor because his last name is the town I live in. ALSO:
the guy has paid his dues in the biz so it's nice to see him get a lead on something that seems to be gathering momentum. ALSO:
according to imdb: Has a dog named Sugar, saved from a local Los Angeles pound. - BONUS!
-
i only became interested in this show when Bryan Cranston showed up on best week ever. sold.
-
Based on the first 2 episodes, I think I'm going to love this show. I'm already planning how to fit episode 3 into the time between my arrival home and tonight's show.
-
Based on the first 2 episodes, I think I'm going to love this show. I'm already planning how to fit episode 3 into the time between my arrival home and tonight's show.
Either the 3rd or 4th episode has a really nasty scene that made me laugh like a fool.
-
Good christ this show has gotten brutal. It's living up to it's name! I know I said I wouldn't call it a clone anymore and I won't... but how could anybody not at least see the Sopranos parallel with this show after these last few episodes? Carmella/Skylar, Christopher/Jessie, Adrianna/Jane, Tony/Walter White, (young) A.J./Walter Jr., Furio/Skylar's boss, the list goes on. How am I the asshole for thinking this?! How?!
Yet, I'm not complaining. This is severely good tv, derivative or not.
-
This season is fucking GOOD. Shit is going uh-down.
-
http://www.savewalterwhite.com/
that's awesome, especially the donate button
-
Good christ this show has gotten brutal. It's living up to it's name! I know I said I wouldn't call it a clone anymore and I won't... but how could anybody not at least see the Sopranos parallel with this show after these last few episodes? Carmella/Skylar, Christopher/Jessie, Adrianna/Jane, Tony/Walter White, (young) A.J./Walter Jr., Furio/Skylar's boss, the list goes on. How am I the asshole for thinking this?! How?!
I haven't seen any of season two yet, but based on season one the Sopranos parallel doesn't work because, at a basic level, Tony is a have and Walter is a have-not. Tony has money and power and the fear and respect of others. Walter is a schlub who has to take a second job at a car wash in order to support his family. He suffers the humiliation of wiping the wheels of one of his students (and has his picture snapped doing it), he has to ask the woman at the hospital not to cash his check until next week, etc.
Maybe things change in season two. In any case, I can't wait.
-
Just watched last night's episode. The steely gaze that came over Walt's face while he was crying was chilling. It was a "I got you, bitch" kind of look. I'm really worried about who are in the body bags which is presumably what we're going to find out in the season finale.
-
Good christ this show has gotten brutal. It's living up to it's name! I know I said I wouldn't call it a clone anymore and I won't... but how could anybody not at least see the Sopranos parallel with this show after these last few episodes? Carmella/Skylar, Christopher/Jessie, Adrianna/Jane, Tony/Walter White, (young) A.J./Walter Jr., Furio/Skylar's boss, the list goes on. How am I the asshole for thinking this?! How?!
I haven't seen any of season two yet, but based on season one the Sopranos parallel doesn't work because, at a basic level, Tony is a have and Walter is a have-not. Tony has money and power and the fear and respect of others. Walter is a schlub who has to take a second job at a car wash in order to support his family. He suffers the humiliation of wiping the wheels of one of his students (and has his picture snapped doing it), he has to ask the woman at the hospital not to cash his check until next week, etc.
Maybe things change in season two. In any case, I can't wait.
Yeah, I don't mean to drag season one into this, as the two seasons are as different as day and night. I'm only talking about this season, and mostly the last half of it. I agree too that WW and Tony are very different characters, aside from being family men leading a mostly secret double life of crime. I guess my point is that these shows are different in the way that Disney movies from the nineties made themselves different by switching around the same 8 shapes and personalities of the supporting cast. But I don't mean to call it cheap! They really have made it their own, but I just can't stop seeing the template. I know I really have to let this point go now, but damn if I can't do it.
PS: Yeah! What was up with those body bags, and what is the deal with that Schindler's List pink teddy bear? That's maybe the only opening scene they didn't call back to at the end of the episode, so it's gotta be either a throw away or a season ender. Next week!
PPS: Is Kings still on the air?
-
Kings is supposed to come back in June, I read somewhere.
-
Kings is supposed to come back in June, I read somewhere.
Huh. I thought I'd heard it was cancelled.
-
You might be right. The latest news I'm finding dates from April, when it was reported that it would start airing again on Saturday, June 13, at 8 p.m.
-
http://www.savewalterwhite.com/
that's awesome, especially the donate button
Yeah, as soon as they said the address on last Sunday's episode I looked it up (a nerdy tendency sprung from the one time when I got an e-mail from Homer Simpson after sending something to an e-mail address he mentioned in an episode)-- very cool.
Next week's episode looks brutal, and it's the season finale (I think). oh man.
-
A scene from Breaking bad was filmed at my work. Maybe I could start offering tours like Mike and his Wrestler tours.
-
Thank you to FOT for recommending this show - it's incredible.
In terms of dark/intense serial shows, I'm still not on board with The Wire, though. Maybe I'll try again.
-
A scene from Breaking bad was filmed at my work. Maybe I could start offering tours like Mike and his Wrestler tours.
you work at that heroin house, don't you?
-
Thank you to FOT for recommending this show - it's incredible.
In terms of dark/intense serial shows, I'm still not on board with The Wire, though. Maybe I'll try again.
The Wire is definitely a show where you have to put a couple of episodes under your belt before things start coming together. It's told in such a pace unlike nearly any other television that it's hard to get into at first, as I experienced. But once you get the rhythm, you're sucked in.
-
I saw the last five episodes of this; Cranston is terrific, but I really hated the last 5-8 minutes of the last episode.
-
I burst out laughing at the very end. After all the buildup with the body bags and all that brooding, portentous atmosphere, that it ended with Walt looking at the scorched teddy bear in the pool, leaving all the questions unanswered, made me happy.
Oh, spoiler, by the way.
-
OK, disc 2 of season 1 should ship tomorrow. I still think this show should've been called A Meth Lab of One's Own, though.
I have no idea what prompted that comment or why I felt it should be posted.
Anyway, I just finished s2, which immediately hooked me on another level from s1 in the first two episodes. I like how they've given themesleves room to go very big and experiment with stuff like the mock music video, which was inspired.
Skyler still annoys me in ways that I think have more to do w/ Anna Gunn than the character; but I liked how they developed Hank, and of course Aaron Paul is really good. Also, the kid who plays Flynn is quietly very impressive.
Will catch up with s3 this weekend. Is typing "s_" obnoxious?
-
but I liked how they developed Hank,
I agree - he and the wife started out super-obnoxious and cartoony, and though the wife is still a bit over the top, they've managed to make Hank into a real person.
I haven't seen any of the third season yet, but I'm very interested to see if they do more with the Giancarlo Esposito character. I always liked him as an actor and was disappointed when he sorta disappeared after his late 80s/early 90s heyday.
I love the Bob Odenkirk character. I've never seen him do a dramatic character before, and I think he really delivers.
-
I haven't seen any of the third season yet, but I'm very interested to see if they do more with the Giancarlo Esposito character. I always liked him as an actor and was disappointed when he sorta disappeared after his late 80s/early 90s heyday.
They do! He's a regular this year, as is...
I love the Bob Odenkirk character. I've never seen him do a dramatic character before, and I think he really delivers.
I wouldn't call Saul a dramatic character exactly, but I agree that Bob is killing it in the role. He stepped up.
-
Is typing "s_" obnoxious?
No.
-
I haven't seen any of the third season yet, but I'm very interested to see if they do more with the Giancarlo Esposito character. I always liked him as an actor and was disappointed when he sorta disappeared after his late 80s/early 90s heyday.
They do! He's a regular this year, as is...
I love the Bob Odenkirk character. I've never seen him do a dramatic character before, and I think he really delivers.
I wouldn't call Saul a dramatic character exactly, but I agree that Bob is killing it in the role. He stepped up.
I agree there's still a lot of funny in the Saul character, but it's much more dramatic than anything else I've seen Odenkirk do. I'd never seen him do anything like the scene where Walter and Jesse hold a gun to his head.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFyB3UZlVDw&feature=player_embedded
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFyB3UZlVDw&feature=player_embedded
This is great-- whoever cast Bob Odenkirk as Saul is a smart, smart person.
My ladyfriend and I watched the first two episodes of season 3 this weekend, and hooooollly shit. The last few minutes of the second episode literally had me on the edge of my seat.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFyB3UZlVDw&feature=player_embedded
This is great-- whoever cast Bob Odenkirk as Saul is a smart, smart person.
I agree, but what's really weird is that the guy who offered the part to Odenkirk had never seen Mr. Show.
-
Saul's entire website is gold. (http://www.bettercallsaul.com)
-
I agree, but what's really weird is that the guy who offered the part to Odenkirk had never seen Mr. Show.
That is false. I had this discussion on the Comedy Zone board last week, actually - Vince Gilligan is "a fan of Bob's from way back." Also, it was apparently the writer Peter Gould's wife who initially suggested casting Bob.
-
I agree, but what's really weird is that the guy who offered the part to Odenkirk had never seen Mr. Show.
That is false. I had this discussion on the Comedy Zone board last week, actually - Vince Gilligan is "a fan of Bob's from way back." Also, it was apparently the writer Peter Gould's wife who initially suggested casting Bob.
Good to know. I was going by the recent Odenkirk interview from the AV Club:
"So I was offered it, which was really generous of Vince. I’m not real sure what Vince saw in me, such that he thought I’d be able to do this part well, because I’m not sure he knew Mr. Show. I gave him a DVD last year, and he was like “Hey, that’s a great show, man!” I was like, “Wow. You didn’t know it before you hired me?” Maybe he saw me on Larry Sanders. I don’t know. "
-
I should never post my opinions so strongly on the internet, because I regret them later. This one, not so much because I found out later I was right about the Sopranos link, but still, Breaking Bad could never be a "clone". What a jerk! This show is still amazing, I cannot wait for the upcoming Walt/Jesse WAR.
-
This season had been amazing. Never ever thought the brothers would go like that. Though one still might be alive?
I look forward to, and also dread each episode.
I should never post my opinions so strongly on the internet, because I regret them later. This one, not so much because I found out later I was right about the Sopranos link, but still, Breaking Bad could never be a "clone". What a jerk! This show is still amazing, I cannot wait for the upcoming Walt/Jesse WAR.
-
This season had been amazing. Never ever thought the brothers would go like that. Though one still might be alive?
I look forward to, and also dread each episode.
I should never post my opinions so strongly on the internet, because I regret them later. This one, not so much because I found out later I was right about the Sopranos link, but still, Breaking Bad could never be a "clone". What a jerk! This show is still amazing, I cannot wait for the upcoming Walt/Jesse WAR.
Great ending last week, but im pretty sure their both dead didn't he run over one and then shoot the other one in the head? I really like Breaking Bad but it can really get cartoonish at times especially the Jesse character and the Tico guy from the first season that guy was way over the top.
-
I was really pissed when AMC ran a preview of this upcoming episode that effectively spoiled the ending of the last episode as the audience was watching it. It really deflated the tension of the parking lot scene. I guess that's what I get for assuming they wouldn't be so careless. They're still a bush league network in many ways.
I think the use of the Cousins has largely been more cheesy than not, up to and including "No... too easy" last week. You can have them be ruthless without making them cliched Terminator-types. It was a nice touch giving them a backstory right before one of them got killed.
But yes, overall this has been the best season yet.
-
This is by far, the best thing on television. I miss Tucco, love Odenkirk and Esposito but show wouldn't work without Cranston and Paul. That's some chemistry.
-
This is by far, the best thing on television. I miss Tucco, love Odenkirk and Esposito but show wouldn't work without Cranston and Paul. That's some chemistry.
Is that Tarkus in your avatar?
-
This season had been amazing. Never ever thought the brothers would go like that. Though one still might be alive?
I look forward to, and also dread each episode.
I should never post my opinions so strongly on the internet, because I regret them later. This one, not so much because I found out later I was right about the Sopranos link, but still, Breaking Bad could never be a "clone". What a jerk! This show is still amazing, I cannot wait for the upcoming Walt/Jesse WAR.
Great ending last week, but im pretty sure their both dead didn't he run over one and then shoot the other one in the head? I really like Breaking Bad but it can really get cartoonish at times especially the Jesse character and the Tico guy from the first season that guy was way over the top.
Guess i was wrong but he's dead now and so is his boss.
-
Pidgeon, it is indeed the Tarkus. It's the cake topper I requested for my wedding. The cake artist was a super-genius.
-
This season is going to end with the most painful cliffhanger yet.
-
Holy shit! I just watched last night's episode and I am utterly speechless. This show really has some tricks up it's sleeve. I heard an NPR interview with Cranston where he said Walt was probably going to upset some viewers this season. Now I know what he was referring to.
-
That ending was a master stroke (no pun intended, Marie). The P.I.'s monologue was fantastic too
-
Anybody know where to watch the finale live online?
-
Anybody know where to watch the finale live online?
As Omar would say, this show is a 'masterwork.' By far the best show running.
-
Anybody know where to watch the finale live online?
http://www.ninjavideo.net/cat/2397
-
For some reason, I didn't have the gumption to watch this season, but I recorded the whole thing (even put it on DVDs). Sometime this summer I'm going to have a marathon, which I'll cap by finally reading this thread.
Good times ahead.
-
For some reason, I didn't have the gumption to watch this season, but I recorded the whole thing (even put it on DVDs). Sometime this summer I'm going to have a marathon, which I'll cap by finally reading this thread.
Good times ahead.
This show has accomplished in three season what usually takes a show five.
-
For some reason, I didn't have the gumption to watch this season, but I recorded the whole thing (even put it on DVDs). Sometime this summer I'm going to have a marathon, which I'll cap by finally reading this thread.
Good times ahead.
This show has accomplished in three season what usually takes a show five.
The show does indeed often move at a startingly fast pace while still managing to drop calm-before-the-s-hitstorm wonders like "Fly." Amazing.
As for the sneak-peeked Rubicon pilot, it looks like AMC has scored again -- this one reminded me a lot of something like the BBC's (wait for it ..... masterful) State of Play. I'm somewhat concerned that original showrunner (and writer/director of the pilot) Jason Horwitch has apparently been ditched, but his replacement, Henry Brommell, appears to be up to the task with credits like Homicide and Carnivale.
-
I suspect the couple of minutes of that pilot that I saw as I was editing out the commercials in Breaking Bad yesterday may have been behind my decision to watch the movie version of State of Play yesterday. It's been years since I saw the original series, but I suspect I'm right in thinking the show was better than the film. Still, it wasn't as awful as I expected it to be.
-
As for the sneak-peeked Rubicon pilot, it looks like AMC has scored again -- this one reminded me a lot of something like the BBC's (wait for it ..... masterful) State of Play. I'm somewhat concerned that original showrunner (and writer/director of the pilot) Jason Horwitch has apparently been ditched, but his replacement, Henry Brommell, appears to be up to the task with credits like Homicide and Carnivale.
I didn't see the Rubicon preview but became optimistic after reding something about its "deliberate, 70's-style" pacing. That's the kind of thing I was hoping for from Treme before I found it to be a disappointment. This thing about Horwitch doesn't seem to bode well though. Did he create the show?
As for Breaking Bad, I still think Mad Men is the smartest, most thoughtful current drama but BB brings more thrills and unpredictability than just about anything currently going. I'd advise Hollywood to take notes but that's probably a hopeless cause at this point. It was interesting to read the post-finale interviews w/ Vince Galligan where he talked about just how much they winged it this year, and how unambiguous he intended the last shot of the episode to be. Seems to me the director gave him an unintentional "out," but I'm not sure how plausible it would be if he took it.
-
I didn't see the Rubicon preview but became optimistic after reding something about its "deliberate, 70's-style" pacing. That's the kind of thing I was hoping for from Treme before I found it to be a disappointment. This thing about Horwitch doesn't seem to bode well though. Did he create the show?
Horwitch is the creator and wrote the pilot. I incorrectly identified him as the director -- The Sopranos vet Allen Coulter helmed the pilot.
-
Anybody know where to watch the finale live online?
http://www.ninjavideo.net/cat/2397
Thanks!
On another note, without giving anything away....was anyone kind of bummed out with the way things ended and the decisions Walt & Jesse made in the finale? Or are they deliberately leading us to believe the worst?
-
Anybody know where to watch the finale live online?
http://www.ninjavideo.net/cat/2397
Thanks!
On another note, without giving anything away....was anyone kind of bummed out with the way things ended and the decisions Walt & Jesse made in the finale? Or are they deliberately leading us to believe the worst?
I think that Walt was prepared to do all the heavy lifting for himself, but that things flipped so much in the last few minutes that he had to just let go of everything and think on his feet. I thoroughly enjoy the fact that watching this made me think "Wait! What's he saying? No! Oh wait! I see. Wait NO!! Damn.," which I honestly hadn't felt since I was a kid. One thing I am still not completely sure of is why Walt feels totally responsible for Jesse's safety. Perhaps he feels like he will always owe him for what he let happen to Jane.
-
That's a good point. He was uncharacteristically comforting and paternal to Jesse too when she died, even though he was otherwise at the end of his rope dealing with him.
-
I think that it's easy for us to conclude "there should be more TV like this!" when in fact there's an incredibly small group of people capable of writing at that level. With between 300-400 ongoing networks, TV's eating up hundreds of thousands of hours of program time every year; the only things that are going to stick with you are the quality outliers.
-
Spoilers, Spoilers
Great cliffhanger. I thought at first that maybe Gale was just injured, but he is obviously dead.
You can never tell what direction this show is headed. The charactors are so well written and acted, and the plot changes so fast that cliche moments become brand new. I think I like this show better than The Wire. The Wire had a bigger scope, but Breaking Bad is more entertaining.
-
You can never tell what direction this show is headed. The charactors are so well written and acted, and the plot changes so fast that cliche moments become brand new. I think I like this show better than The Wire. The Wire had a bigger scope, but Breaking Bad is more entertaining.
After some debate I think I feel this way too.
-
I think I like this show better than The Wire.
I was thinking the same thing on the second to last episode. It's left Mad Men in the dust and probably has passed the Wire for me. The way they take you on Walter's journey of conscience along with him is just masterful.
-
What a finale!
I loved The Wire and fell hard for Deadwood. I watch Mad Men and that takes me to some interesting places but Breaking Bad has it all and then some. It's as close as television can get to being a great book.
-
"You ever actually play Laser Tag? It's great cardio, plus you get to shoot at kids!"
-
So Gus was just kidding about that whole "I will kill your entire family" thing, right?
-
What a finale!
I loved The Wire and fell hard for Deadwood. I watch Mad Men and that takes me to some interesting places but Breaking Bad has it all and then some. It's as close as television can get to being a great book.
Hated the Wire finale, didn't it end with montage? Seemed cheesy to end it like that.
-
What a finale!
I loved The Wire and fell hard for Deadwood. I watch Mad Men and that takes me to some interesting places but Breaking Bad has it all and then some. It's as close as television can get to being a great book.
Hated the Wire finale, didn't it end with montage? Seemed cheesy to end it like that.
Every season before that ended with a montage featuring the only non diegetic music in the series. I thought it appropriate.
-
Whoa. The showdown happening between Walt and Gustavo is getting amazing.
Did Gustavo go back into the hospital because he was paranoid or because he's going to drag Jesse out with him?
-
I think Gus was just being overly cautious. He'd left the car unattended and he knew that Walt would be crazy enough to do something like concoct a homemade bomb and put it in his car. Gus could have also known about the plan beforehand, since he "has cameras everywhere."
The ricin poisoning storyline bothered me a little. Gus being the poisoner seems far-fetched -- what exactly would Gus have to gain from doing this? Walt's theory that Gus did it so Jesse would turn on Walt is pretty shaky -- it's not exactly inevitable that Jesse would blame Walt for the poisoning and not Gus (who's had children killed before). I'm guessing either Tyrus/Gus took the cigarette or Jesse misplaced it, and the kid got sick naturally. But that also seems far-fetched -- what are the chances of the kid contracting a serious illness on the same day Jesse loses the ricin cigarette? Come on, Breaking Bad, give me a plausible explanation for this in the season finale.
-
I didn't get that part either. How would Tyrus have even known Jesse possessed a poison cigarette? And what would he have done, stolen the cigarette and gone to Jesse's when he wasn't home and convinced an 11-year old stranger to smoke it? That whole thing was confusing. Also strange that Jesse would be so convinced Walt would poison a child that he'd confront him with the gun, but I guess they were trying to underscore how paranoid everyone's become.
Also, is it confusing that the writers named a character Tyrus who already looks like the model Tyrese?
(http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjEyNDA5MTAwMF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzIwNjkyNg@@._V1._SX640_SY425_.jpg)
(http://static.tvguide.com/MediaBin/Galleries/Imported/BioPix/Mi/bio09/tyrese-gibson1.jpg)
-
My assumption was Gus sensed something in Jesse's behavior. Gus knows how to read and intimidate people and could perhaps tell that Jesse was up to something. Or Gus just has some preternatural abilities and sensed danger, but if that was the case it seems he would be as worried about snipers as carbombs.
As for the ricin it's possible the kid stole a cigarette and it happened to be the wrong one, and being curious tried the stuff in the vial. If I was that kids age I would probably steal a cigarette if I could.
I think Gus was just being overly cautious. He'd left the car unattended and he knew that Walt would be crazy enough to do something like concoct a homemade bomb and put it in his car. Gus could have also known about the plan beforehand, since he "has cameras everywhere."
The ricin poisoning storyline bothered me a little. Gus being the poisoner seems far-fetched -- what exactly would Gus have to gain from doing this? Walt's theory that Gus did it so Jesse would turn on Walt is pretty shaky -- it's not exactly inevitable that Jesse would blame Walt for the poisoning and not Gus (who's had children killed before). I'm guessing either Tyrus/Gus took the cigarette or Jesse misplaced it, and the kid got sick naturally. But that also seems far-fetched -- what are the chances of the kid contracting a serious illness on the same day Jesse loses the ricin cigarette? Come on, Breaking Bad, give me a plausible explanation for this in the season finale.
-
But Jesse said on the day Brock was poisoned he'd switched the ricin cig from one pack to another, and I got the impression Jesse wasn't around Brock at all that day until the hospital scene.
Of course, Brock could have ingested some of the ricin the day before and put the vial back in the cigarette, without Jesse's knowledge. According to Walt in one of the Tuco episodes, ricin takes about 24 hours to take effect (but this for some reason wasn't brought up during the Jesse/Walt scene, making me wonder if "ricin" works the same way in Season 4 as it did in Season 2).
Gus probably didn't poison Brock -- he became super-cautious only after Jesse brought up the ricin poisoning; if Gus had done the poisoning, I think he would have left someone to watch his car. And Tyrus sneaking into a house and slipping ricin into some kid's chocolate milk seems outlandish -- Gus takes his cue from Machiavelli, not Boris Badenov.
-
Of course, Brock could have ingested some of the ricin the day before and put the vial back in the cigarette, without Jesse's knowledge.
Highly unlikely. I can't think of a reason this kid, whose personality we really know nothing about, would pull a stunt like this. I hate to be the downer but I think there is a possibility that we as viewers are making a mistake in siding with Walt through all this. I'd like to think he is the good guy here, but you never know.
Also part of me thinks that it's playing out just like it seems. Gus poisoned the kid to get Jesse to turn on Walt, but at the hospital Gus realizes that that didn't work and Jesse knows it was him who poisoned Brock and gets a little nervous. Because now he realized its 2 on 1.
-
In my opinion, there's no real way to defend/explain/rationalize Gus ominously stopping at just the right moment to go stare out in Walt's direction in the parking lot anyway other than in the words of Marlo Stanfield: That's some Spider-man shit there.
I think the writers just can't help themselves with Gus, he became a pulp/comic book-style supervillain this season, complete with a semi-tragic origin story. I can live with it, it's part of the show's DNA that it's a crazy crime comic story that likes to let its bad guys go a little out there now and again, and it does it well. Plus Esposito is completely nailing the character they've given him (what a painful reminder of how utterly they wasted him in the unfortunate final season of Homicide...if they'd given him anything to work with, there's no question Esposito gone have gone a long way towards filling the Andre Braugher void.)
I do, however, worry about the resolution of this Brock poisoning thing. Earlier in the season, before I came to embrace Gus as Dr. Doom/The Kingpin, I had some trouble buying into his plot to win over Jesse that involved assumptions that Jesse wouldn't murder the hell out of the two shotgun-toting guys assigned to scare him and take over forever with the money, leaving Gus to solely depend on Walt again. But this one is potentially even more convulted.
If Gus did it, his plot depends on him super secretly knowing about the killer cigarette all season long, on Jesse not noticing the cigarette missing for the few hours in which it had to get to Brock and instantly work on him, on Jesse pinning the blame on Walt and on an armed, rightly paranoid, murder-capable Walt not blowing a revenge-bound Jesse away or them killing each other, leaving Gus with no one to make his supermeth. That is a very complex, unlikely series of events that has to happen in pretty tiny window of time.
If Walt did it...I think the degree of difficulty for making this all happen in that amount of time possibly doubles (we have to assume that Huell is a Ricky Jay-level master of misdirection to swap cigarette packs during his brief frisking of Jesse, and the entire plan hinges on Jesse actually bothering to heed Saul's calls to come in that afternoon, plus Walt still has to get Saul or Huell to tell him who Brock is and then go poison him) and there are similar logic leaps in play (everything then depends on Jesse realizing what happened before Tyrus wanders by to happily kill Walt, Jesse actually going to Walt and not beating Walt to death or blowing him away), but this feels like it could be the kind of huge moment the season is building up to, as Walt shoots past the entire cast on the evil scumbag scale. It would also nicely set up a final 16 episode of Jesse working for new drug lord Heisenberg and Jesse then needing to find out that Walt was either directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of Jane and Brock so he can decide to kill Walt.
So, yeah, I'm a little worried about them resolving the actual details of this latest plot point and it following on the kinda sloppy business with Ted Beneke's return, but I'm willing to hold off to see the reveal of what actually happened next week because of how wildly entertaining Season 3 and the back end of this season have been.
-
Giancarlo Esposito does a good job of demystifying the parking garage scene in this video (be warned though -- the video contains some spoilers for the season finale):
Inside Breaking Bad 412: End Times [HD] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW7dfPgJgfc#ws)
-
I buy Esposito's explanation in that promo video. But the Michael Bay movie music underneath it is pretty hilarious.
If Walt did indeed poison Brock, that's pretty huge. It's a point of no return -- he's completely unsympathetic after that (not that he's ever been the most lovable character, but at least he's had enough moral fiber to be a rationalizing hypocrite and not just a monster). But it is definitely the kind of weird risk that he would take. I'm kind of hoping that it was an accident, which seems to be the most plausible explanation.
-
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that it makes no sense at all that either Gus or Walt would have poisoned Brock. Even if it made strategic sense from Walt's point of view, it's extremely unlikely that he could have pulled it off. If anything, Brock was accidentally exposed to the ricin, or just has a bad flu and everyone's paranoid.
-
I rambled a bit and probably lost the point, but I agree that neither of the two of them poisoning Brock is that plausible in the given time frame or works out as a logical plan by anything other than the "evil supergeniuses are always able to predict things exactly" cliche.
But it felt like Jesse's claim that there was no window for Brock to have taken the cigarette was meant to be taken factually, and for it to be a coincidental illness would seem a bit dramatically limp for a season finale. By contrast, they intentionally leave Walt's whereabouts that day unknown and ending the season with a revealtion that makes Walt a huge, irredeemable monster even more than before seems like the kind of thing they'd go for to set the status quo for the final run of episodes.
Esposito's explanation of the parking lot scene explains how he was playing it, but even he eventually admits that it comes down to "Gus is really, really smart and always knows things" to get around how Gus is able to go from "hmm, poison?" to "Walt is ready to blow up my car" at that exact moment. That said, it was totally worth watching to be reminded of what he's like out of character and for the moment where he refers to Pinkman as "this young cat."
-
There's a theory floating around the Internet that the third and final time Walt spinned his gun at the beginning of Sunday's episode (http://youtu.be/_rzjS4hzR8E (http://youtu.be/_rzjS4hzR8E))), the gun pointed towards a plant called Aconitum, and that Walt used the plant to poison Brock:
(http://hort.uwex.edu/sites/default/files/white-monkshood.jpg)
From what I've read on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aconitum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aconitum)), Aconitum poisoning isn't always fatal, which makes it plausible that Walt would want to use it instead of ricin, if he were to indeed poison the child. This still, however, doesn't account for the fact that Walt's theft of the ricin cigarette is pretty much impossible and that poisoning Brock would require some Metal Gear Solid shit way beyond the ability of Walt, even with the Heisenberg hat on. Interesting nonetheless, though.
-
That sounds like a crazy internet theory to me. In my limited experience working in television, I don't think any writer, director, or producer has or would ever hide a plot point in the way that internet commenters seem to think they routinely do. I do love reading these theories, though.
-
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that it makes no sense at all that either Gus or Walt would have poisoned Brock. Even if it made strategic sense from Walt's point of view, it's extremely unlikely that he could have pulled it off.
Think I agree. It seems like an accident that came at a time when it happened to polarize things further and make everyone paranoid. Maybe Brock found the cigarettes accidentally and just wanted to experiment with smoking.
-
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that it makes no sense at all that either Gus or Walt would have poisoned Brock. Even if it made strategic sense from Walt's point of view, it's extremely unlikely that he could have pulled it off.
Think I agree. It seems like an accident that came at a time when it happened to polarize things further and make everyone paranoid. Maybe Brock found the cigarettes accidentally and just wanted to experiment with smoking.
This couldn't have happened, unless Brock took some ricin out of the vial and then put the vial back in the cigarette -- remember, Jesse had the cigarette on him the morning Brock was poisoned and didn't see Brock at all that day until the hospital scene..
To my mind the most plausible theory is that Brock's sickness has nothing to do with ricin or Aconitum. All the other theories seem to require too many aberrations of judgment on the part of the writers.
-
People seem to be forgetting that the poison was in a vial hidden in a cigarette wrapper. It wasn't a smokable cigarette.
-
Gus used poison on the cartel, and Walt can make his own poison. They wouldn't have needed to use the cigarette to poison Brock and Jesse still could have thought either one of them did it, but Gus or Walt thinking that poisoning Brock would turn Jesse against the other is really far-fetched.
I think Gus was genuinely surprised when Jesse told him Brock was poisoned, and this surprise of foul play is what made him aware that something else fishy is going on in the parking lot.
-
Oh right, you couldn't smoke it... Maybe Brock found and opened the vial b/c he thought it was drugs? Hard to think of scenarios that aren't convoluted.
-
I didn't think so right after watching the episode, but I now agree 'Walt did it' is the most likely scenario in terms of the overall story arc being set up for the next season. As Wes pointed out a coincidental illness is too convenient to be satisfying, and it seems to me there is no way that Gus could have reasonably expected Jesse to react the way he did at finding the ricin missing, so Gus didn't do it. However Walt has been driven deeper and deeper into a corner all season and in the context of the sometimes absurd plotting of this series, Walt thinking he could use the poisoning to manipulate Jesse into helping him out is not so hard to believe.
The most interesting thing to me this season has been the way they've shown Walt spinning out of control, getting more desperate and erratic and paranoid, suggesting that this is the kind of pressure that's needed to push someone like him over the last moral line in the sand.
-
The most interesting thing to me this season has been the way they've shown Walt spinning out of control, getting more desperate and erratic and paranoid, suggesting that this is the kind of pressure that's needed to push someone like him over the last moral line in the sand.
I think you're dead on with this. I feel like we actually see this moment of crossing over when Walt is under the house laughing hysterically. That is a really unsettling scene and that's got to be when Walt finally cracks. In interviews he always talks about how his character isn't going to please a lot of viewers and the literal meaning of 'breaking bad' and how well intentioned men turn evil over the course of time. We'll see.
-
I didn't think so right after watching the episode, but I now agree 'Walt did it' is the most likely scenario in terms of the overall story arc being set up for the next season.
It also makes sense with how he had the whole Gus scenario "figured out" when Jesse came at him.
-
I totally buy that Walt would do it. But how could he have? They could have had Walt and Brock in the same place at some point without giving it away (or at least shown Walt leaving the house). To have it happen off-camera just seems like bad writing to me, or at least bad writing for a show that's notable for such consistently great writing. Especially if they're doing it just to set up Walt's character arc in Season 5.
It also feels really far-fetched that Walt could predict Jesse's reaction so easily, or at all -- it feels more logical that Jesse would have blamed Walt, just for forcing the ricin on him in the first place.
I'm starting to get Wire Season 5 anxiety. I really hope I'm wrong.
-
It is certainly troubling as far as plot mechanics go. It's possible the the next episode will feature some sort of flashback sequence explaining how he pulled it off. But I share the general consensus that any of the three possible scenarios looks dramatically flawed and the writers may have created a no-win situation for themselves.
-
I totally buy that Walt would do it. But how could he have? They could have had Walt and Brock in the same place at some point without giving it away (or at least shown Walt leaving the house). To have it happen off-camera just seems like bad writing to me, or at least bad writing for a show that's notable for such consistently great writing. Especially if they're doing it just to set up Walt's character arc in Season 5.
It also feels really far-fetched that Walt could predict Jesse's reaction so easily, or at all -- it feels more logical that Jesse would have blamed Walt, just for forcing the ricin on him in the first place.
I'm starting to get Wire Season 5 anxiety. I really hope I'm wrong.
The "Walt poisoned Brock" theory also requires Walt somehow getting the cigarette out of Jesse's pack, making it even more far-fetched.
As I said before, I think that it'll turn out to be just a weird coincidence, with Brock somehow having come down with a serious illness on the same day Jesse lost the ricin cigarette. Breaking Bad has done weird coincidences before (see plane crash storyline at the end of Season 2), so the writers doing something like this isn't too hard to believe.
-
Yeah, I'm of the school that coincidence is OK in your story as long as it makes things worse for the characters.
-
As I said before, I think that it'll turn out to be just a weird coincidence, with Brock somehow having come down with a serious illness on the same day Jesse lost the ricin cigarette.
He could have switched packs then grabbed the wrong pack. Remember when Jesse was a dumbass? Some things don't totally change, yo.
-
I think the whole point of the confusing ricin storyline is to get Jesse in trouble with the police/the feds, which is hinted at by the preview for the next episode. My prediction is that Brock wasn't poisoned, but the doctors and/or Jesse's girlfriend don't know this and turn Jesse in. Then the cops search Jesse's car or house and find the missing ricin cigarette or something else incriminating and a stiff prison sentence now hangs over Jesse's head. This puts Jesse out of commission and forces Gus to "reconcile" with Walt.
-
I think the whole point of the confusing ricin storyline is to get Jesse in trouble with the police/the feds, which is hinted at by the preview for the next episode. My prediction is that Brock wasn't poisoned, but the doctors and/or Jesse's girlfriend don't know this and turn Jesse in. Then the cops search Jesse's car or house and find the missing ricin cigarette or something else incriminating and a stiff prison sentence now hangs over Jesse's head. This puts Jesse out of commission and forces Gus to "reconcile" with Walt.
Ewwww, good guess.
I was talking to a friend about that crazy theory about the plant, and if that's the case, Walt getting the cigarette is a moot point. If there's nothing to that plant theory then that shot is completely pointless other than possibly being a deliberate red herring.
-
I think the whole point of the confusing ricin storyline is to get Jesse in trouble with the police/the feds, which is hinted at by the preview for the next episode. My prediction is that Brock wasn't poisoned, but the doctors and/or Jesse's girlfriend don't know this and turn Jesse in. Then the cops search Jesse's car or house and find the missing ricin cigarette or something else incriminating and a stiff prison sentence now hangs over Jesse's head. This puts Jesse out of commission and forces Gus to "reconcile" with Walt.
Ewwww, good guess.
I was talking to a friend about that crazy theory about the plant, and if that's the case, Walt getting the cigarette is a moot point. If there's nothing to that plant theory then that shot is completely pointless other than possibly being a deliberate red herring.
That shot wasn't pointless or a red herring. That crazy plant theory is just making you see it as a red herring. I see that little scene as Walt debating whether or not to kill himself. He's been trying to maintain control for over a year under desperate situations and was finally letting it up to fate (the random spinning of the gun) to decide. But, being the control freak he is, Walt wasn't happy when fate tells him that he needs to die. So he spins again and gets the same result. Walt decides, no way, not going to die. He spins again and this time fate delivers him the answer he wanted, you don't have to die, someone else does.
-
Did I kill this thread with my over-analysis? Sorry, have to exercise the English major in me every once in a while.
-
I really blew it in regards to keeping up with this thread, but I never stopped watching the show. So, I'll pick up at present as if nothing had ever happened.
At first, I thought Gus Fring avoiding death last week was just about as believable as Skyler White's melted Shatner mask of a new face. Then I read just now about that plant and watched that clip... on the third spin of the gun, I think he really has become irredeemable. And it makes sense, in his personal murder chronology. From choking out a thug in near self defense, to drowning a junkie in her own vomit, to poisoning a child. It has a grim arc to it.
Every time I feel let down by this show, I'm proved wrong. The first episode of this season for instance, left me wondering. Then it worked out so beautifully as an illustration of the rest of the season, there was no question. Even her plastic surgeries are reforming into a cruel, mocking semblance of humanity. So, I'm with it to the end.
OMG, also, did you see that gun dent on Walt's forehead?! That's a hole called acting, brother. Or a condition called pitting edema.
-
From choking out a thug in near self defense, to drowning a junkie in her own vomit, to poisoning a child. It has a grim arc to it.
Not to mention mowing down two drug dealers with his car then shooting one in the head!
Other than Tony Soprano, it's hard to think of another protagonist who's crossed so far into un-relatable/amoral territory and continued to gain popularity rather than alienating people. It's like a trend in TV dramas these last 10 years, to see how far people will stick with the antihero.
-
Despite the horrible things he did in Season 3 (up to and including the murder of Gale), for me it really wasn't until midway through this season that I really started to dislike Walt. And I think that had more to do with his whining and 'it's all about meeeeee' attitude than with any particular moral failing. I don't know if that says something about the way the creators of the show are able to expertly manipulate our sympathies, or about the nature of drama itself.
-
From choking out a thug in near self defense, to drowning a junkie in her own vomit, to poisoning a child. It has a grim arc to it.
Not to mention mowing down two drug dealers with his car then shooting one in the head!
Other than Tony Soprano, it's hard to think of another protagonist who's crossed so far into un-relatable/amoral territory and continued to gain popularity rather than alienating people. It's like a trend in TV dramas these last 10 years, to see how far people will stick with the antihero.
On this week's WTF? Bryan Cranston said that the goal of the show was to take Walt White from a somewhat sympathetic everyman to an outright villain. From Mr. Chips to Scarface I believe was his exact analogy. If he did poison Brock (and even if he did I think he would be careful to not give him enough to kill him) I think it would cement Walt's staus as a true villain as opposed to an antihero who can almost be justified with a "He's doing what he has to do."
-
It's the classic theme, right? Evil is seductive.
-
In case you haven't seen it yet, the A.V. Club did a fantastic interview with G. Esposito:
http://www.avclub.com/articles/giancarlo-esposito,62959/ (http://www.avclub.com/articles/giancarlo-esposito,62959/)
-
In case you haven't seen it yet, the A.V. Club did a fantastic interview with G. Esposito:
http://www.avclub.com/articles/giancarlo-esposito,62959/ (http://www.avclub.com/articles/giancarlo-esposito,62959/)
This interview is excellent.
If anyone's interested, Hitflix posted the first minute or so of tomorrow's episode: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/hitfix-first-look-walt-cleans-up-a-mess-on-sundays-breaking-bad-finale (http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/hitfix-first-look-walt-cleans-up-a-mess-on-sundays-breaking-bad-finale)
-
In case you haven't seen it yet, the A.V. Club did a fantastic interview with G. Esposito:
http://www.avclub.com/articles/giancarlo-esposito,62959/ (http://www.avclub.com/articles/giancarlo-esposito,62959/)
G. Esposito in an international treasure.
-
In case you haven't seen it yet, the A.V. Club did a fantastic interview with G. Esposito:
http://www.avclub.com/articles/giancarlo-esposito,62959/ (http://www.avclub.com/articles/giancarlo-esposito,62959/)
G. Esposito in an international treasure.
Well said, Martin! A truly great man.
-
In case you haven't seen it yet, the A.V. Club did a fantastic interview with G. Esposito:
http://www.avclub.com/articles/giancarlo-esposito,62959/ (http://www.avclub.com/articles/giancarlo-esposito,62959/)
G. Esposito in an international treasure.
Well said, Martin! A truly great man.
I heard that in the finale he switches gears from killing Walt to boycotting Sal's Famous.
-
I guess the crazy Internet theory wasn't so crazy after all.
-
And I'm not gloating. I dismissed the theory and thought the plant scene was put in there to fuck with the heads of Internet geeks. I still don't see how Walt could have gotten the cigarette.
-
And I'm not gloating. I dismissed the theory and thought the plant scene was put in there to fuck with the heads of Internet geeks. I still don't see how Walt could have gotten the cigarette.
And not the entire scene, just the part where he looks at the White Monkshood plant. Also, I get that Huell, when he was patting Jesse down, could have jacked the cigarettes and then slipped a near identical pack into Jesse's jacket, but, as someone said earlier in this thread, that seems like some Ricky Jay shit way outside Huell's wheelhouse.
-
As soon as I saw that the episode was titled "Face Off," I knew that I should take that very literally.
So the convoluted, almost totally improbable "Walt poisoned Brock*" theory turned out to be on target, but the payoff with Tio was so great it went a long way toward easing the sting of how they got there. I guess it almost evens out, although I really hope they go back to planning the final season's ending far in advance.
*I think it's safe to say this is the most dramatic tension and handwringing that's ever been expended on someone named "Brock."
-
I read an interview with Vince Gilligan here: http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/interview-breaking-bad-creator-vince-gilligan-post-mortems-season-4 (http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/interview-breaking-bad-creator-vince-gilligan-post-mortems-season-4) He says that the writers pretty much hand waved the whole logistics by saying, "Well, Walt would have enough time to get the berries to Brock."
I'm fine with it. Super realism is not something I require in a show about a high school teacher turning meth lord. As long as they maintain their own internal realism (that is, if the show sets up laws of the universe for itself, it should adhere to those laws) I'm perfectly fine.
This also makes Gus's hesitation at his car make more sense. The fact that Brock was poisoned and Jesse's seemingly accusatory nature toward Gus would make Gus more cautious as he knows he didn't poison Brock so Walt must have, which means Walt was ready to do anything to take out Gus.
-
Thank you, A.V. Club: http://www.avclub.com/articles/vince-gilligan-walks-us-through-season-four-of-bre,63013/ (http://www.avclub.com/articles/vince-gilligan-walks-us-through-season-four-of-bre,63013/)
-
So the convoluted, almost totally improbable "Walt poisoned Brock*" theory turned out to be on target, but the payoff with Tio was so great it went a long way toward easing the sting of how they got there. I guess it almost evens out, although I really hope they go back to planning the final season's ending far in advance.
I think this kind of gets to where I stand on things. I really, really don't think Walt's plot stands up to any real scrutiny. And I don't just mean Huell's secret Ricky Jay superskills or Walt getting Brock to eat the berries or other things that had to happen (mostly) offscreen because they couldn't hammer out the details. I mean the very idea that Walt sees Brock for the first time (am I forgetting an earlier scene?) when showing up at Jesse's house in a panic and just seconds before being tazed multiple times and led out into the desert for a possible death. And somehow he remembers that two seconds of seeing a kid at Jesse's house and comes up with "Jesse must love whoever that hell that kid was so much that if I could only find a way to use him as the lynchpin to convince him to blame me for something and then convince him to blame Gus instead before he kills me for...hey, is that poisonous plant in my backyard?"
It's just a weird, convoluted series of logic jumps that uncomfortably stacks up on top of Gus' similarly weird plan from earlier in the season (that drove the wedge between Walt and Jesse that required this weird plan), with the odd Ted Beneke shennanigans in between. They should have put some more of the plot wheels in motion in those first few character-heavy/plot-light episodes at the start to give them room to dig that hole and then crawl out of it. And because of all that, I don't think this season was as strong as Season 3.
Buuuuuut, as spectacle and entertainment, that finale and a good solid chunk of this season were phenomenal television, without question. I think the bit with Gus walking out and straightening his tie like some kind of T-800-by-way-of-Chuck-Jones was their way of acknowledging "Yeah, you know what, Gus just DOES have Spidey-sense, because Spidey-sense is cool and everyone knows that in their hearts" and THAT SHOT of him immediately after is going to go down as TV legend.
Add onto that Paul stepping up in a major way and carrying most of the season, Esposito embracing S4 Gus and playing him to perfection and Cranston being allowed to re-emerge as Bryan Cranston: TV's Finest Actor in the final few episodes, and I'm happy to accept it for what it was: amazing, entertaining television. We're still in a TV golden age.
*I think it's safe to say this is the most dramatic tension and handwringing that's ever been expended on someone named "Brock."
Brock Samson and Brock Lesnar can only shake their heads in disappointment at you. Eh, maybe not Brock Lesnar, I'm not sure he has a neck.
-
I think this kind of gets to where I stand on things. I really, really don't think Walt's plot stands up to any real scrutiny. And I don't just mean Huell's secret Ricky Jay superskills or Walt getting Brock to eat the berries or other things that had to happen (mostly) offscreen because they couldn't hammer out the details. I mean the very idea that Walt sees Brock for the first time (am I forgetting an earlier scene?) when showing up at Jesse's house in a panic and just seconds before being tazed multiple times and led out into the desert for a possible death. And somehow he remembers that two seconds of seeing a kid at Jesse's house and comes up with "Jesse must love whoever that hell that kid was so much that if I could only find a way to use him as the lynchpin to convince him to blame me for something and then convince him to blame Gus instead before he kills me for...hey, is that poisonous plant in my backyard?"
Keep in mind that Saul was in on the plot and at one point was paying regular visits to Andrea and Brock.
-
Keep in mind that Saul was in on the plot and at one point was paying regular visits to Andrea and Brock.
Yeah, he gets the address for their home from Saul, no problem there. And I'm willing to assume that Saul, under these circumstances, shrugs off poisoning a kid and even fill in the blanks for them that Saul has Huell and Bill Burr's character (did he get a name on the show?) help out/run interference/put on disguises so Walt can get the whole thing done safely that afternoon.
My lingering hang-up is the logic chain that has to go: Walt sees plant -> Walt remembers the face of a kid he saw for less than 10 seconds the night before when he was kidnapped and led out to the desert -> Walt correctly guesses said kid is so important to Jesse that his well-being can motivate Jesse to kill someone when threats on Jesse's own well-being failed to motivate him to kill Gus at least twice in the past weeks -> Walt correctly guesses that Saul will know who the kid is -> Walt devises cigarette swap plan on the hunch that Jesse will blame him and he can get Jesse to blame Gus -> this plan actually works.
Anyway, Bob Odenkirk as Saul: one of the greatest unexpected casting decisions and payoffs in recent memory.
-
Keep in mind that Saul was in on the plot and at one point was paying regular visits to Andrea and Brock.
Yeah, he gets the address for their home from Saul, no problem there. And I'm willing to assume that Saul, under these circumstances, shrugs off poisoning a kid and even fill in the blanks for them that Saul has Huell and Bill Burr's character (did he get a name on the show?) help out/run interference/put on disguises so Walt can get the whole thing done safely that afternoon.
My lingering hang-up is the logic chain that has to go: Walt sees plant -> Walt remembers the face of a kid he saw for less than 10 seconds the night before when he was kidnapped and led out to the desert -> Walt correctly guesses said kid is so important to Jesse that his well-being can motivate Jesse to kill someone when threats on Jesse's own well-being failed to motivate him to kill Gus at least twice in the past weeks -> Walt correctly guesses that Saul will know who the kid is -> Walt devises cigarette swap plan on the hunch that Jesse will blame him and he can get Jesse to blame Gus -> this plan actually works.
Anyway, Bob Odenkirk as Saul: one of the greatest unexpected casting decisions and payoffs in recent memory.
At some point, Saul told Walt about Jesse's relationship with Andrea and Brock. Remember, Walt was afraid for his life once Jesse became buddy-buddy with Mike. At that point, he probably started paying Saul to keep tabs on Jesse.
-
...Walt getting Brock to eat the berries...
Out of all the Fring-head sized plot holes this devil may care writing attitude could bring about, this is the biggest one.
Walt knows full well how much kids love to eat decorative house berries. Getting him to eat them would have been all too easy, just set a bag of them out on the front porch and Brock will smell them a mile away. You don't even have to put his name on the bag. Kids can't help themselves where this is concerned, which is why these plants should be constitutionally outlawed in my opinion.
Once the kid is berry-napping in the hospital, all you have to do is go over to Pinkman's house and pump knock-out fumes into his vents. You can probably make this from the berries. When it's full, put on a gas mask and break into his house through a crawl space hole that you build yourself. Tiptoe through the house and carefully steal the Ricin cigarette. Once you have it, leave through the same crawl-hole being careful not to get any of that Ricin on ya, then repair the hole behind you so Jesse doesn't notice a thing. Outside, let your car warm up at the same time as you pump wake-up fumes into the house. When he's awake, place a call in a ladies voice, pretending you are Andrea calling from the hospital to freak him out. Drive away. This leaves you a solid 30 minutes to go help Huell-dini practice his sleight of hand acting.
Later, if the DEA catches you, trick them into sharing a bottle of poison water that you keep in your pocket, but have another bottle of water in your other pocket (secret pocket) that has the antidote in it. When the cops are all poisoned, just take the handcuffs off, drink the second water and drive away.
-
Keep in mind that Saul was in on the plot and at one point was paying regular visits to Andrea and Brock.
Yeah, he gets the address for their home from Saul, no problem there. And I'm willing to assume that Saul, under these circumstances, shrugs off poisoning a kid and even fill in the blanks for them that Saul has Huell and Bill Burr's character (did he get a name on the show?) help out/run interference/put on disguises so Walt can get the whole thing done safely that afternoon.
My lingering hang-up is the logic chain that has to go: Walt sees plant -> Walt remembers the face of a kid he saw for less than 10 seconds the night before when he was kidnapped and led out to the desert -> Walt correctly guesses said kid is so important to Jesse that his well-being can motivate Jesse to kill someone when threats on Jesse's own well-being failed to motivate him to kill Gus at least twice in the past weeks -> Walt correctly guesses that Saul will know who the kid is -> Walt devises cigarette swap plan on the hunch that Jesse will blame him and he can get Jesse to blame Gus -> this plan actually works.
Anyway, Bob Odenkirk as Saul: one of the greatest unexpected casting decisions and payoffs in recent memory.
At some point, Saul told Walt about Jesse's relationship with Andrea and Brock. Remember, Walt was afraid for his life once Jesse became buddy-buddy with Mike. At that point, he probably started paying Saul to keep tabs on Jesse.
Even if Walt didn't have a secret information-feeding relationship with Saul before the shit hit the fan in episode 11, it's not inconceivable that between then and the scene where Walt spins his gun, Walt had a long scheming session with Saul, in which Saul told Walt about Andrea and Brock.
(And, of course, I'm forgetting the possibility that Saul, being a loudmouth, brought up Jesse's relationship with Andrea and Brock during a regular meeting with Walt at some point. Or that Walt found out by personally spying on Jesse. Or that Jesse told Walt about Andrea and Brock over breakfast at Denny's. The possibilities are endless.)
-
Also remember that, near the end of Season 3, Jesse was fully prepared to die to avenge Brock's brother's death at the hands of Gus's street pushers. Walt even arranged a sit-down with Gus, Jesse and the two dealers to try and settle it before it got out of hand. So Walt does know how important this family is to Jesse.
And then there's the show's ultra-compressed timeline. The time between the events of the Season 3 finale and those of last night's episode couldn't be more than 3-4 weeks in the world of the show. Walt would probably still remember Brock and his mother, even before seeing them at Jesse's house.
But still, the writing was pretty sloppy these last couple of episodes. Way more good stuff than bad, of course, just not up to the standard BREAKING BAD has set for itself. It's almost certain that Walt's entire scheme will be fully fleshed out early in the next season. The writers have a year to get this story straight, and I'm confident they can do it in a less eyeroll-worthy fashion than what we got this year.
-
Yeah, I agree with everything Wes and Chris have said -- still a great show, and the Hector moment at the end was TV history, but the how of Walt poisoning Brock doesn't make sense, and a writers' room that smart, knowing how intelligent their audience is (or at least they treat us like we're smart) shouldn't have just hand-waved it. Unless they are ultraconfident in their abilities to plausibly explain it next season.
-
If Lily of the Valley is truly that common, there's still a chance that Brock discovered some in his own backyard and that the zoom-in shot of the plant in Walt's backyard was there just to lead viewers to assume the worst (which will get cleared up next season).
-
After 2 minutes of internet research, I have come to the conclusion that the writers presented a good case of ricin poisoning based on Brock's condition, and a lame case for Lily of the valley poisoning as it doesn't seem to produce very severe symptoms. But that is consistent with most of what happens on the show; it presents one way, but turns out to be something else. It all goes back to the pilot's opening scene, Walt is convinced he will be caught with his pants down (or literally off in this case) as the sirens sound in the background, only to realize it's fire engines sounding their approach not police cars, and no one is looking for him. This is what makes, and continues to make, the show so entertaining.
1.
Cardiac Glycosides
Plants that contain cardiac glycoside can cause changes in the rate or rhythm of your child's heart. Many heart medications currently on the market are derived from these plants. Poisoning with cardiac glycosides often occurs when these plants are incorrectly used as a tea. The initial signs of poisoning are headache, confusion, dizziness, vomiting, or stomach pain. Later, effects on heart rate and blood pressure occur.
Foxglove
Lily-of-the-Valley
Oleander
Squill
If your child eats any amount of these three plant groups, contact your physician or The Poison Control Center immediately. Each case needs individual evaluation and The Poison Center's recommendations will vary with the amount and time of ingestion.
2.
Signs and symptoms of ricin exposure
The major symptoms of ricin poisoning depend on the route of exposure and the dose received, though many organs may be affected in severe cases.
Initial symptoms of ricin poisoning by inhalation may occur within 8 hours of exposure. Following ingestion of ricin, initial symptoms typically occur in less than 6 hours.
Inhalation: Within a few hours of inhaling significant amounts of ricin, the likely symptoms would be respiratory distress (difficulty breathing), fever, cough, nausea, and tightness in the chest. Heavy sweating may follow as well as fluid building up in the lungs (pulmonary edema). This would make breathing even more difficult, and the skin might turn blue. Excess fluid in the lungs would be diagnosed by x-ray or by listening to the chest with a stethoscope. Finally, low blood pressure and respiratory failure may occur, leading to death. In cases of known exposure to ricin, people having respiratory symptoms that started within 12 hours of inhaling ricin should seek medical care.
Ingestion: If someone swallows a significant amount of ricin, he or she would develop vomiting and diarrhea that may become bloody. Severe dehydration may be the result, followed by low blood pressure. Other signs or symptoms may include hallucinations, seizures, and blood in the urine. Within several days, the person’s liver, spleen, and kidneys might stop working, and the person could die.
Skin and eye exposure: Ricin is unlikely to be absorbed through normal skin. Contact with ricin powders or products may cause redness and pain of the skin and the eyes.
Death from ricin poisoning could take place within 36 to 72 hours of exposure, depending on the route of exposure (inhalation, ingestion, or injection) and the dose received.
I am looking forward to next season!
-
I think that maybe if Walt poisoned Brock he knew that the Lily of the Valley wouldn't be fatal if he made it to the hospital. Isn't Jesse still oblivious to Walt's involvement in Jane's death?
I do think that both of those will unravel next season and Mike is either going to avenge Gus or join forces with Walt and Jesse. I too can't wait.
I did see Cranston interviewed on the today show saying there are 16 episodes left which will be "two years." So are we to expect 8 episode mini-serieses?
-
If Lily of the Valley is truly that common, there's still a chance that Brock discovered some in his own backyard and that the zoom-in shot of the plant in Walt's backyard was there just to lead viewers to assume the worst (which will get cleared up next season).
This is very unlikely. In the Brian Cranston WTF and other interviews they talk about how they're setting out to do something that's rarely been done on television (if ever) and that's to turn the hero into a villian. Not into an anti-hero, but into a straight-up villian.
-
The other interesting detail -- which gives me hope for the final season -- is that S5 will stretch out over two years. Considering that the first four seasons all took place in one calendar year, this seems promising, and allows a lot of the loose ends -- the death of Ted Beneke, the FBI and APD looking into Jesse because of the ricin thing, Walt's cancer, the car wash (what if their money problems return?), Hank's suspicions (how is that German multinational going to react to this? Might Gus have CIA connections?), and, biggest of all, the power vacuum left by the deaths of both Gus and the entire cartel -- to really take root.
-
I think the "stretched out over two years" thing means how it will go in real time, not in show time, necessarily. Meaning that Season 5 Episode 8 will air in October of next year, and Season 5 Episode 16 - or Season 6 Episode 8 - will air the October after that. I could be wrong, but I don't think Gilligan has said anything about how far out they want the in-show time to advance yet.
A jump between the #8 and #9 episodes of the final 16 would make sense, but I think they're still working under the notion that Walt is working with a finite clock on his life, whether he knows it or not.
-
Oh, that's what I get for not reading carefully. Oh, well.
-
What fun, I think we should all try to win this!
http://blogs.amctv.com/breaking-bad/2011/10/breaking-bad-walk-on-role-sweepstakes.php (http://blogs.amctv.com/breaking-bad/2011/10/breaking-bad-walk-on-role-sweepstakes.php)
Beginning today, you can enter for your chance to win a walk-on role in what The New York Times calls "The best show on television." One grand prize winner will be selected to receive a walk-on role in Breaking Bad next season and a four-day, three-night trip to the set in Albuquerque, New Mexico. All entries must be received by 11:59:59AM | 10:59:59C on Mon., Jan. 16, 2012.
-
So I'm playing catch up with this show. Just watched Seasons 1-3. My overall impression: The Sopranos Lite with a heavy Tarantino influence (jokey violence, ponderous monologues), not to mention one character imitating Jason Mewes (Jesse) and another character imitating Robert Duvall in The Great Santini (Hank, who along with Marie and Walt Jr. are completely two dimensional characters). In 33 episodes, I can't say I laughed or was surprised by anything I saw (although Bob Odenkirk, who is the best thing in the show, came closest). Gus, the criminal genius (probably my most hated type of television character), seems lifted whole cloth from The Wire. Frankly, the whole show seems derivative to me (The Sopranos being the main template--a man resorts to crime to support his family). I can't think of one moment that felt personal or original. And the pile up of coincidences (Walt running into Jane's father in the bar, Jane's father being the air traffic controller responsible for the mid-air collision, Jesse dating the sister of the 11-year-old hit kid, etc.) doesn't help much either (don't even get me started on the Terminator Brothers or should that be the No Country for Old Men Brothers--thank God they were at least dispensed with). I'm not turned off enough to not see it through to the end, but judging from some of the comments about Season 4, I'm not expecting it to improve dramatically either. Sorry, fellas, but Breaking Bad is definitely a Tier 2 show for me.
-
You're difficult to please, Mike. Out of curiosity, what's in your Tier 1?
-
Twin Peaks, The Sopranos, and Deadwood are the gold standard for me.
-
Twin Peaks, The Sopranos, and Deadwood are the gold standard for me.
Where does THE WIRE fit in?
-
Tier 2, Mr. Fishlegs.
-
Tier 2, Mr. Fishlegs.
Uh boy. Not this again. B Buster versus FOT Wire Fans. Round 4.
-
What about Herman's Head, Mike?
-
I've never seen Herman's Head, but I understand the first condom commercial aired during an episode which automatically makes it at least a Tier 2.
-
The California Raisin Show -- Tier 1 or Tier 2?
-
I think Mike has previously referred to The Wire as "Baretta with better production values and a slightly less sympathetic lead."
I actually agree with a lot of your take on Breaking Bad, Mike. At least in terms of the plotting issues, and some of the comedy/drama incongruity, though I think that was more of a problem in the first (and maybe early) season where they'd go for borderline wacky a little too often. Though performed excellently, Gus really is Brother Mouzone if they'd let him take over The Wire, or if Omar was routinely doing "some Spider-man shit right there" for multiple seasons, and the Twin Brothers were way over the top, especially in the unfortuante Slow Walk Away From An Explosion scene. That said, I came to terms this year that it's what the show is - a pulp, crime comic book style show - and in those terms, rather than being a show that strives for realism, I think it's great.
Things I do disagree on: I think Hank is actually a surprisingly nuanced character, especially in the third (and best) season. And I'd say Aaron Paul is great in seasons three and four, when they actually gave him things to do.
Also, is "a man resorts to crime to support his family" really what The Sopranos is about? I think it was more like "a man resorts to crime to get away from his family" or something like that, which is part of what made it so great. Though your point stands that this is arguably what Breaking Bad has morphed into in the last two seasons.
-
I would summarize The Sopranos as, "a man resorts to crime because he pretty much enjoys being a criminal and is good at it."
I mean, who doesn't feel stress at their job(s)? No one does a show about the stress in being a Burger King manager, but that sh*t has got to suck big time.
In all seriousness*, doesn't everyone have a disastrously f*ckup relative? And wouldn't it be simpler to just pinch his nose and mouth shut for a couple of minutes and spare everyone the decades of heartache?
* Not really. Ish.
-
And let's not also forget that, as he admitted during the Kevin Smith interview, Mike is a contrarian. If a lot of people on this board post about loving something, you can more or less count on Mike to belittle it. I'm not saying this to attack or insult Mike - I'm usually entertained by his takedowns, even if I disagree with what he's saying. And also, it's just entertainment, so taking another person's criticisms personally is not really all that healthy.
-
(I)f Omar was routinely doing "some Spider-man shit right there"
I'd take my T.V. out of the closet to see that!
-
I don't go out of my way to be a contrarian, MoS, but I am generally suspicious when every other television show is touted as "the best television show ever" as has been the case lately with Mad Men and Breaking Bad (btw, I like Breaking Bad more than Mad Men despite my Christina Hendricks fixation). Obviously, I found Breaking Bad to be entertaining or I would not have invested so much of my time watching it. I think it's good, but just not quite up to the hype.
Also, was I the only one irked by "The Fly" episode? It seemed like such a self-conscious effort to come up with their version of the "Pine Barrens" episode from The Sopranos or "The Chinese Restaurant" from Seinfeld, not to mention that the subject matter and execution didn't quite merit a full episode.
-
You are definitely not the only one bothered by the Fly episode. It was pretty divisive, even among devoted fans.
-
Tier 2, Mr. Fishlegs.
Uh boy. Not this again. B Buster versus FOT Wire Fans. Round 4.
I was unaware this was a "thing" so I'll let it drop.
-
I am Jones-ing for more Breaking Bad episodes!
-
Tier 2, Mr. Fishlegs.
Uh boy. Not this again. B Buster versus FOT Wire Fans. Round 4.
I was unaware this was a "thing" so I'll let it drop.
Eric, please ignore my false exasperation. I love all conflicts with Mike over the Wire. It brings out the best/worst in Mike. I am still stinging from when he compared the Wire to something called the Streets of San Francisco. Remember that "great" show? Don't feel bad--no one does--in fact, I think Mike made it up to piss off people like me.
-
I loved the Streets of San Francisco. Michael Douglas and the incomparable Karl Malden.
-
I did, too, Dave. My comparison was not a knock. Kids today!
-
I did, too, Dave. My comparison was not a knock. Kids today!
Streets of San Francisco didn't hold up too well when I tried to watch it again after all these years.....but it's still fun to cruise around '70s San Fran with Karl Malden.
Breaking Bad is great because you can watch Walter White slowly devolve into a sociopath, which seems to be his true nature. He's finding himself! I love that show. It's also really good at ratcheting up the tension to the breaking point, again and again, what thrills!
-AG
-
This is pretty cool: a montage of weird point-of-view shots from the show. Rather poetic.
Breaking Bad Remix // POV Compilation (http://vimeo.com/34773713)
-
http://www.matadorrecords.com/matablog/2011/12/16/walter-white-kicks-because-air-pollos-hermanos-doesnt-really-roll-off-the-tongue (http://www.matadorrecords.com/matablog/2011/12/16/walter-white-kicks-because-air-pollos-hermanos-doesnt-really-roll-off-the-tongue)
-
I just made RICINS in Words with Friends for 46 points!
-
(http://cdn.ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Tobias-Funke-and-Heisenberg-AKA-Walter-White_gregbmarcus.jpg)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6093/6315759660_2b22498533.jpg)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lty9usAVUq1qkusrlo1_500.jpg)
-
(http://neilnumberman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/contact_me.gif)
-
Totally full of spoilers, 10 minute recap deluxe!
http://www.slate.com/articles/video/slate_v/2012/07/breaking_bad_s_first_four_seasons_delivered_in_10_minutes_video_.html?tid=sm_tw_button_chunky (http://www.slate.com/articles/video/slate_v/2012/07/breaking_bad_s_first_four_seasons_delivered_in_10_minutes_video_.html?tid=sm_tw_button_chunky)
-
(http://api.ning.com/files/DOkIE3x0y72DAkEG8wNZBNWDPZ9Foj*w*JH*hYKC0RNitKSLmAOXpv7y6mfDjbhxDnMdAcQkmjYHVCvMuQ4ON33DLWYhBCvX/1274662648711.jpg)
-
Has there been a more cartoony and simplistic episode in the series?
I don't think I'm complaining... but I want this series to end in a cosmic conundrum, you feel?
(Did Mike say, "I'm getting too old for this shit." or was it just that he might as well have said that?)
-
You'd expect them to sell it with more brutality, like for somebody's dental implant to get ripped out of their head or something.
-
Has there been a more cartoony and simplistic episode in the series?
I don't think I'm complaining... but I want this series to end in a cosmic conundrum, you feel?
(Did Mike say, "I'm getting too old for this shit." or was it just that he might as well have said that?)
No, I said Breaking Bad morphed into MacGyver for Season 5.
-
I polished off the last two episodes of season 3 and all of season 4 in about a day and a half.
At this point, I'm ready to call Breaking Bad the Reagan '84 of tv shows. It simply blows away its competition. There's not a single show in its stratosphere. And this is coming from someone who doesn't readily hand out such praise. But yeah, Breaking Bad is that good.
-
I haven't gotten to Season 4 yet, but the pair of episodes that ended Season 3 had me raving about the entire season to anyone who would listen.
-
Went on an instant queue marathon of this show this weekend, so I'm caught up through season 4. If the crime show realism spectrum goes from Sons of Anarchy as a low to The Wire as a high, I'd put Breaking Bad pretty close to the middle. It's definitely entertaining. Since X-Files is on instant also, here is a link to Gilligan's X-Files work, which, as far as X-Files goes, has aged pretty well.
http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Vince_Gilligan (http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Vince_Gilligan)
-
Went on an instant queue marathon of this show this weekend, so I'm caught up through season 4. If the crime show realism spectrum goes from Sons of Anarchy as a low to The Wire as a high, I'd put Breaking Bad pretty close to the middle. It's definitely entertaining. Since X-Files is on instant also, here is a link to Gilligan's X-Files work, which, as far as X-Files goes, has aged pretty well.
http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Vince_Gilligan (http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/Vince_Gilligan)
I believe that's a fair assessment. There's obviously some suspension of disbelief required in order to really enjoy the show. If the show were truly realistic, Walter probably would have been caught midway through season 2.
-
Surprised by Mike's critique. It has its moments of weakness and/or excess, but BB is a show unto itself.
Have really enjoyed this season so far. Last year started slowly and frustratingly, but this one has been set up beautifully. Come on Jesse/Hank/Mike...
Also, in case anyone's interested, I made a compilation of songs from the first four seasons of the show. http://www.likeheartsswelling.com/?p=441 (http://www.likeheartsswelling.com/?p=441)
-
So this happened tonight
(http://i.imgur.com/LFexB.jpg)
-
To say nothing for the visit to Consolidated Cardboard.
-
I wanted to see a conversation between Walt and Brock on that couch.
WALT
What game are you playing?
BROCK
(smug)
You wouldn't like it.
WALT
Why not?
BROCK
(super smug)
Oh, it's just this game where you don't poison any children.
-
Am I the only one who suspects the much-prolonged reveal of how Walt poisoned Brock is going to be totally preposterous? Of course, in the show's world, it will be presented as more evidence of Walt's criminal genius.
-
I am officially making a break (no pun intended) with Mike on Breaking Bad. I still believe it's junky/pulpy, but I refuse to question its logic anymore. I have fun watching it and that's enough for me in these troubled times.
Tom.
-
Yeah, I was kind of assuming at this point that the poisoning plot was not going to be explained in any detail.
-
I would be shocked at this point if we get anything more than the clumsy "Huell really did have magic pickpocket powers" handwave and Walt staring down Brock re: explaining that ludicrous plan, if only because they seem to have a year of time to cover over the next 13 episodes.
I encourage people to look back around pages 7-9 of this thread, where we tried to come to terms with how that plot didn't work and embracing the pulp/comic book nature of the show. In the latter context, Mike sniffing out the ambush last week doesn't annoy me as much as some of Gus' supervillain powers last year, since the show just wants us to accept him as The Punisher, and I can live with that.
Especially if it allows for scenes like the Mike/Hank/Gomez interrogation scene from Episode 2. I think they're starting off a little too slowly again (like they did last year, which felt like it caused problems on the back end of the season), but that was a pretty great scene, and I remain impressed how Hank has turned into the one decent and competent character considering how he was when introduced. The only way this show could really drop the ball now is if they somehow don't give us the scene with Hank and Walt after Hank figures things out/has Walt's story revealed to him, however short that scene might be.
-
Who is enjoying Breaking Bad less than they enjoyed The Wire?
I stopped watching the Wire in the middle of the fourth season because it just felt like work. Nothing awesome ever happened. It felt... real-ish.
Breaking Bad is what happens when things like The Wire are actually entertaining.
-
Another thing for fans of logic in their dramas: Am I the only one who doesn't find Mike intimidating? How old is he anyway? He looks like a regular at Massa's, for Christ's sake!
-
I'll be curious to see what they do with Skyler's character. Will she be overcome with so much guilt that she cracks and rats Walt out to the authorities? Or will Walt eliminate her before she has the opportunity to do so? And given Walt's capacity for evil, I don't think such a scenario is implausible. After all, this is a man who poisoned a child, did absolutely nothing to help a young woman dying right before his eyes and blew up a nursing home. Regardless, I can't see this tenuous arrangement between the two of them continuing.
-
Another thing for fans of logic in their dramas: Am I the only one who doesn't find Mike intimidating? How old is he anyway? He looks like a regular at Massa's, for Christ's sake!
At what point does watching stuff that makes you mad become self-loathing?
-
Another thing for fans of logic in their dramas: Am I the only one who doesn't find Mike intimidating? How old is he anyway? He looks like a regular at Massa's, for Christ's sake!
I dunno. Some of the regulars at Massa's are pretty terrifying. Joe Puppy the Cleaner would scare the shit out of me.
-
I'll be curious to see what they do with Skyler's character. Will she be overcome with so much guilt that she cracks and rats Walt out to the authorities? Or will Walt eliminate her before she has the opportunity to do so? And given Walt's capacity for evil, I don't think such a scenario is implausible. After all, this is a man who poisoned a child, did absolutely nothing to help a young woman dying right before his eyes and blew up a nursing home. Regardless, I can't see this tenuous arrangement between the two of them continuing.
Marie is going to tip Hank to the Beneke affair and that's where it's going to all unravel. Right? Right??
-
Another thing for fans of logic in their dramas: Am I the only one who doesn't find Mike intimidating? How old is he anyway? He looks like a regular at Massa's, for Christ's sake!
At what point does watching stuff that makes you mad become self-loathing?
You think I'm mad? This is how I have fun!
-
Who wants to take bets that Walt Jr. has already started "experimenting" with meth?
The detached conversation with his father at the breakfast table, the zoom in on his untouched bowl of cereal.
Whaddaya think?
-
Another thing for fans of logic in their dramas: Am I the only one who doesn't find Mike intimidating? How old is he anyway? He looks like a regular at Massa's, for Christ's sake!
I dunno. Some of the regulars at Massa's are pretty terrifying. Joe Puppy the Cleaner would scare the shit out of me.
That's a good point. Did you know that Joe Puppy, as part of his service to his country in Vietnam, was required to cut off the heads of uncooperative enemy prisoners? He was 19 years old at the time. Something to think about.
-
Who is enjoying Breaking Bad less than they enjoyed The Wire?
I stopped watching the Wire in the middle of the fourth season because it just felt like work. Nothing awesome ever happened. It felt... real-ish.
Breaking Bad is what happens when things like The Wire are actually entertaining.
Yup, I quit the Wire at the same time, for the same reason. I didn't hate the show (obviously, since I watched 3.5 seasons of it) but it was awfully self-important. I'll take Breaking Bad's stretching credulity over the Wire's "this is how it really IS, man!" any day.
Who wants to take bets that Walt Jr. has already started "experimenting" with meth?
Oh geez, I hope not. That would be a little too heavy handed for the show, I think.
-
Who is enjoying Breaking Bad less than they enjoyed The Wire?
I stopped watching the Wire in the middle of the fourth season because it just felt like work. Nothing awesome ever happened. It felt... real-ish.
Breaking Bad is what happens when things like The Wire are actually entertaining.
Yup, I quit the Wire at the same time, for the same reason. I didn't hate the show (obviously, since I watched 3.5 seasons of it) but it was awfully self-important. I'll take Breaking Bad's stretching credulity over the Wire's "this is how it really IS, man!" any day.
Who wants to take bets that Walt Jr. has already started "experimenting" with meth?
Oh geez, I hope not. That would be a little too heavy handed for the show, I think.
I guess it would be a bit heavy handed, given how sweet a young man Walt Jr. is supposed to be. His uncle sure tried to scare him straight, even when there wasn't anything to straighten him out about... But here is what makes me think Walt Jr might be the next casualty of his breaking bad father: narratively, it makes sense, because as each season and episode comes, we're watching Walt becoming a Scarface-like drug lord (something creator Vince Gilligan has said), he's losing any feelings of remorse or moral code. Like any classic Tragedy, such behavior almost always ends badly, and where else could it go, besides his innocent family. We're already witnessing Walt Sr's quiet domination of his wife. "I forgive you," "it's time I moved back in," he states matter of factly to his wife, without any discussion. He's not the same guy he was when all this started.
But if his son became a direct casualty of his creation (becomes a meth head, or ODs or whatever), this is classical Tragedy, and once Walt Sr. finally realizes how indeed bad he has broken, he will either totally turn to the dark side and move on, or destroy himself in guilt and remorse. I (think I) stand by my guess that it just could happen... ;-)
And I thought Breaking Bad would run out of gas in season three!
-
... also, we've only seen a tiny glimpse of the horror and misery that meth wreaks on its addicts and their families. In a way, we've only seen the "good" side of the meth story (the money / power story), and not much of the truly heartbreaking part.
-
There hasn't been a scene with both Walt Jr. and Jesse on the show yet, has there? I'd like to maybe see this half-season end with the two of them both entered into a huge pancake eating contest (sponsored by and located at Denny's), with Jesse maybe competing to win money they need to pay somebody off or something like that. And the dramatic thrust would be that Walt would be conflicted about whether he'd be rooting for his actual son or Jesse to eat the most pancakes. And we would get this big scene at the end where Jesse can sense how conflicted Walt is and even though he needs that money and he loves pancakes, too, he pulls up and lets Walt Jr. shoot past him. Maybe Mike notices Jesse starting to sandbag it and and he's all "Come on, kid, I've seen you eat more than this!" and Jesse turns around and snaps "I SAID I DON'T WANT ANYMORE PANCAKES, YO!" and then shares a brief look and nod with Walt.
And then the camera pulls back and we see that Huell was also in the contest and he just houses twice the amount of pancakes that Walt Jr. does and then Saul and Huell celebrate with true enthusiasm and a real bond that doesn't exist in any combination of Mike, Jesse, Walt and Walt Jr. Like, Saul is actually crying in happiness for Huell, and Huell picks him and and throws him around in celebration and it ends in a freeze fram with the two of them hugging and doing stereo fistpumps.
-
... also, we've only seen a tiny glimpse of the horror and misery that meth wreaks on its addicts and their families. In a way, we've only seen the "good" side of the meth story (the money / power story), and not much of the truly heartbreaking part.
Interesting thought. You're right, but I'm not sure that's so much of what the show is about - that's more The Wire's territory. But I think in a general sense that you're right that we're going to see something bad happen to Junior. It may just be the heartbreaking loss of a pancake eating contest, though. Which I think would be held at a Madrigal-owned pancake restaurant, not Denny's. Besides that minor detail, I think Wes has probably hit the nail on the head.
-
There hasn't been a scene with both Walt Jr. and Jesse on the show yet, has there? I'd like to maybe see this half-season end ... Saul is actually crying in happiness for Huell, and Huell picks him and and throws him around in celebration and it ends in a freeze fram with the two of them hugging and doing stereo fistpumps.
Wes, the speculation of a Saul Goodman spinoff FINALLY makes sense to me.
-
How exactly did the meme of Walt Jr. being super into breakfast come about?
-
I hope Walt kills his entire family.
Don't we all want that? Isn't that what this show is about? What is this all leading toward if not something that grandiose?
-
Who is enjoying Breaking Bad less than they enjoyed The Wire?
I stopped watching the Wire in the middle of the fourth season because it just felt like work. Nothing awesome ever happened. It felt... real-ish.
Breaking Bad is what happens when things like The Wire are actually entertaining.
Glad I'm not the only TV fan who was "bleh" on the Wire. I mean, I guess it's good art, but as a TV show? No. I like to be entertained, not given homework about the state of crumbling East Coast cities.
Also, I kinda get AP Mike's point about BB Mike. Jonathan Banks is, what, 5'7", 175? And 65-years-old? It is a little odd to see him muscling people. Granted, guns are great equalizers, but still -- he's small.
-
Who is enjoying Breaking Bad less than they enjoyed The Wire?
I stopped watching the Wire in the middle of the fourth season because it just felt like work. Nothing awesome ever happened. It felt... real-ish.
Breaking Bad is what happens when things like The Wire are actually entertaining.
Glad I'm not the only TV fan who was "bleh" on the Wire. I mean, I guess it's good art, but as a TV show? No. I like to be entertained, not given homework about the state of crumbling East Coast cities.
Also, I kinda get AP Mike's point about BB Mike. Jonathan Banks is, what, 5'7", 175? And 65-years-old? It is a little odd to see him muscling people. Granted, guns are great equalizers, but still -- he's small.
The Wire had some of the best dramatic payoffs I’ve ever seen on television, and for the first four seasons I found the storytelling every bit as entertaining as it was didactic. Just because whatever you want to see isn’t happening doesn’t mean that “nothing” is happening (cf. Mad Men, Sopranos).
Mike from Breaking Bad was introduced simply and more believably as a “cleaner” who got rid of Jane’s body, rather than as a cartel enforcer. I don’t know if Vince Gilligan has confirmed this, but I suspect they saw something in the character and Banks’ screen presence that just made them find a way to expand the role.
-
Good points on the Wire (and MM and Sopranos...the latter of which still drives me crazy in some ways). I fully admit to being in the "annoying minority" when it comes to the Wire.
-
How about Skyler basically telling Walt that she wants him to die? As despicable a person as Walt has become, I couldn't help but feel bad for him after she uttered those words.
-
This week's outlook on Walt killing his entire family:
FAIR to GOOD.
-
I don't know about his ENTIRE family, but I could see Skyler getting offed if she continues to be disobedient. Heisenberg's gotta be Heisenberg.
-
This week's outlook on Walt killing his entire family:
FAIR to GOOD.
I speculated on this a few pages ago. Now that I've had time to think about it, I can't see him going through with such a thing. I think there's a remote possibility that he could have Skyler killed, but he definitely wouldn't murder his own children. They're not even parties to this really. Skyler, on the other hand, knows WAY too much.
-
I haven't been reading this item because, not having cable, I'm dependent on Netflix for watching the show and thus am just up near the end of Season Four. Can't read this item because I know you're all talking about Season Five, BUT: I have a desperate situation here:
I am majorly confused about the final minutes of Season Four, Episode 11. Walt is ready to take his family out of town and assume a new identity, but is shattered to find that his store of cash has been depleted by Skyler's gift to Ted.
Huh? Didn't Skyler give something under 7 hundred G's to Ted? Walt finds some cash in his cellar, but not much, apparently not even enough to give Saul's "Disappear" guy half a million. I had thought he had MILLIONS AND MILLIONS stored down there (not to mention in the walls of the laundry room)--was I way off? Seriously, I don't get this. Can anyone help me out?
-
I was a bit thrown by that too, but I think that Hank's medical expenses (and Walt's too), and the purchase of the car wash had eaten into his nest egg.
-
You have to remember that, while Walt was making a ton of money every month, he hadn't been manufacturing meth long enough to really amass a fortune. By the end of Season 4, he'd only been at it for about a year (he turns 51 in Season 5). And in addition to all the expenses mentioned earlier, Saul gets a hefty cut from the money Walt makes.
And my memory's kind of hazy, but I seem to remember that part of Walt's agreement with Gus was that Jesse's pay would come out of Walt's earnings (which were about a million dollars a month).
-
Hmm, fair enough. I guess it's kinda like being Michael Jackson: unimaginable wealth pouring in, but oy, the expenses.
I'd forgotten about buying the car wash, though given Skyler's determination that they not make any show of having money at all, I'd have expected them to go the usual channels and get a business loan rather than pay cash for it.
Come to think of it--she was stunned when she realized how much time it was going to take to launder the money Walt was bringing in, so how did they launder the cash fast enough to buy the car wash?
If I pursue this train of thought I might start coming to the conclusion that a lot of really popular, well made TV shows are, upon examination, infested with plot holes!
-
If I pursue this train of thought I might start coming to the conclusion that a lot of really popular, well made TV shows are, upon examination, infested with plot holes!
My experience supports that idea.
It's true for much more than just really popular, well made TV shows.
-
I think I've finally come around to Skyler's way of thinking vis a vis Walt. What a miserable SOB that guy is.
-
If I pursue this train of thought I might start coming to the conclusion that a lot of really popular, well made TV shows are, upon examination, infested with plot holes!
My experience supports that idea.
It's true for much more than just really popular, well made TV shows.
Sounds like my month.
-
If I pursue this train of thought I might start coming to the conclusion that a lot of really popular, well made TV shows are, upon examination, infested with plot holes!
My experience supports that idea.
It's true for much more than just really popular, well made TV shows.
Sounds like my month.
Take really large steps, Dave.
-
I thought the bit where Walt was able to predict his brother-in-law's actions in advance so he could bug his office/computer was really dumb. And the climax was like something out of a Bond movie with lots of shots of a time bomb about to go off, but in this instance it was a gauge on a tank.
-
I thought the bit where Walt was able to predict his brother-in-law's actions in advance so he could bug his office/computer was really dumb. And the climax was like something out of a Bond movie with lots of shots of a time bomb about to go off, but in this instance it was a gauge on a tank.
I thought it was awesome too!
-
I never knew you were such a big fan of creaky writing and visual cliches, Dave.
-
This week's outlook on Walt killing his entire family:
WEAK TO FAIR.
(And it's not capital-G Good Writing. It's capital-F Fun Writing. And Fun writing is good.)
-
I thought the bit where Walt was able to predict his brother-in-law's actions in advance so he could bug his office/computer was really dumb. And the climax was like something out of a Bond movie with lots of shots of a time bomb about to go off, but in this instance it was a gauge on a tank.
In fairness, the point of the office scene was that Walt knew that Hank would panic in the face of a man emoting in front of him. It was tongue in cheek as well as convenient.
I would agree though that in general the writing of this episode was not up to scratch. A lot of clunky exposition and cliche. Still though, the last scene delivered a gut punch greater than anything I've seen in a while.
-
If getting gut punched is your thing, you might want to check out The First 48. Kids get killed senselessly every week. And it's true!
-
If getting gut punched is your thing, you might want to check out The First 48. Kids get killed senselessly every week. And it's true!
Such enthusiasm.
-
I thought the bit where Walt was able to predict his brother-in-law's actions in advance so he could bug his office/computer was really dumb. And the climax was like something out of a Bond movie with lots of shots of a time bomb about to go off, but in this instance it was a gauge on a tank.
In fairness, the point of the office scene was that Walt knew that Hank would panic in the face of a man emoting in front of him. It was tongue in cheek as well as convenient.
I would agree though that in general the writing of this episode was not up to scratch. A lot of clunky exposition and cliche. Still though, the last scene delivered a gut punch greater than anything I've seen in a while.
I'm not callous and I'm not into the bad-ass thing either, so I was surprised that the kid getting shot cracked me up. I think it's because the show is a little "Oh my God! They killed Kenny!" when it comes to Jesse. Or maybe because their heist was so stupid I would have laughed at anything that happened next.
-
I never knew you were such a big fan of creaky writing and visual cliches, Dave.
They define me!
-
This week's outlook on Walt killing his entire family:
WEAK TO FAIR.
(And it's not capital-G Good Writing. It's capital-F Fun Writing. And Fun writing is good.)
Agreed. I am not looking for a life-changing philosophy from the show.
-
Walt is a manipulator. The new guy was the new pawn, set up to kill any witnesses (protect the mission at any costs, was the vow Walt had him take). In this case, the witness happened to be a cute, Thunderdome-ism kid out catching tarantulas. Walt and Jesse didn't have to deal with deciding what to do about the kid, and they, especially Walt, remain seemingly, innocent of the death.
-
Ok, I guess a lot of people thought the ending was ridiculous:
Breaking Bad - Dead Freight End Scene Director's Cut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nmxRGD2CLU#ws)
-
Just an observation: Is there a sadder swimming pool in all of TV or cinema than Walter's? Nobody ever has any fun in it, whenever we see it it looks seedy and neglected, and it's always shown sunless, on the shaded side of the house. And at least as of the end of Season 4, its only narrative functions have been to collect airplane-crash debris and drunk-son vomit, and to have Walter sit alone by it contemplating the horror of his existence.
-
--oh, and also sit by it hatching a particularly evil scheme, of course, but no wonder--sitting by that pit of despair would drive anyone to desperate measures.
-
Walt and Skyler go swimming in it in Season 5. It's pretty cute.
-
Breaking Bad Spin-Off Series! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2qtWelWw-o&feature=player_embedded#ws)
-
Breaking Bad - Mentos Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQG5_rR4hog&feature=player_embedded#ws)
-
Happier times -
(http://mlkshk.com/r/IVHL)
-
This week's outlook on Walt killing his entire family:
FAIR to GOOD.
-
I AM NOW CAUGHT UP ON THIS SHOW. I can't hardly believe it. This is unprecedented for me.
So I'd like to see a flashback or something to Mike the Cleaner's days as a cop in Philadelphia ... what caused him to "break bad"?
Also, I'm still wondering how Walt pulled off the whole Lily of the Valley berry poisoning thing. I want an explanation, and I don't care if the writers have to come up with something totally ludicrous. Any explanation will do.
-
So I'd like to see a flashback or something to Mike the Cleaner's days as a cop in Philadelphia ... what caused him to "break bad"?
It was half-measures
-
This week's outlook on Walt killing his entire family:
GOOD to GREAT.
-
Walt vs. Hank, it'll be a showdown for the ages.
-
I predict, Hank has a fatal heart attack and Walt gets away with it.
-
What were the odds that Hank would pass up a magazine with pictures in it for Walt Whitman's Leaves of Grass while copping a squat? Slim to none. I call "dumb."
-
What were the odds that Hank would pass up a magazine with pictures in it for Walt Whitman's Leaves of Grass while copping a squat? Slim to none. I call "dumb."
Yeah, but you're a hater. Hater's gonna hate. Did you see the magazines?
-
I was looking through GIS to find out what magazines Hank sifted through on the terlet before picking up Leaves of Grass, and I found this bizarre image:
(http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/toiletcopy.jpg)
-
When are we going to get closure on Hank's hobby of mineral-collecting?
-
When are we going to get closure on Hank's hobby of mineral-collecting?
This is the best question in this thread.
-
Did you know that Joe Puppy, as part of his service to his country in Vietnam, was required to cut off the heads of uncooperative enemy prisoners?
Easily a better question.
-
Was he provided with a tool that enabled him to do that quickly, or was it a more of a sawing situation?
-
Machete.
-
(http://i.imgur.com/kXIHY.gif)
-
In my town there is police officer who looks just like Detective Hank, same smile, but no limp.
-
Colbert's Breaking Abbey
http://on.cc.com/Xm8ldf (http://on.cc.com/Xm8ldf)
-
So....... Any predictions?
-
Walt dies?
I can't predict shit.
-
Everybody dies...except Walt.
-
Walt restores the RV and begins selling vodka-infused gelatin to music festivalgoers.
-
Hank tries unsuccessfully to kill Walt, Walt Jr. takes it personally and steps up to become the new Heisenberg. On the day of his little sister's christening (I forgot her name, or when the family became Catholic, but whatever), Walt Jr. takes care of all the family business, i.e., has Hank, Skyler, Jesse, Marie, Lydia, Badger, Skinny Pete, and Saul killed. Breaking Bad II never really becomes a thing because there's nobody left for Walt Jr. to kill (I forgot, Walt Sr. died playing with little whatsername back near the end of Season Five), but we do see Walt Jr. brooding through a pane glass window or two, The End.
-
broodin' 'cause no breakfast, right?
http://laurenoutloud.com/main/index.php/2012/08/15/walt-jr-loves-breakfast-a-breaking-bad-based-meme-roundup/ (http://laurenoutloud.com/main/index.php/2012/08/15/walt-jr-loves-breakfast-a-breaking-bad-based-meme-roundup/)
-
Walt takes his infinite amount of money to Wayne Szalinski, who in the intervening years has stabilized the shrinking ray, and shrinks Walter down by a factor of 36. Walter, not content to count on being small enough to barely be seen, and concerned that someone will work out who he is through his mannerisms and speech patterns, masquerades as a notorious racist, acting as if he has no awareness of the awful things he says, but in fact carefully crafting his racist screeds in a way that no one would ever believe he could be the master manipulator Walter White.
-
Only thing I feel strongly about is how premiere opens:
Cold open at the Denny's in the future; we learn a bit more about Walt's target.
After the credits, we're right back where we left off -- Hank on the can. Hank exits bathroom, and we watch from his POV as he staggers out to patio. Maybe there's a "Saving Private Ryan"-like buzz/ringing in his ears to show that his mind's going a million miles a minute.
After this, I have no clue. I do think the season might unfold in a fairly normal, A-to-B-to-C manner, with no more surprises. If I had to guess, it could be as simple as Walt going into Witness Protection, then returning when he learns that Jesse is going to be killed by Declan or the Aryans for something. And Walt's final act is going down in a blaze of glory against that Arizona cartel/Aryans. Maybe his meth formula even lives on, and we see people in the near future continuing to cower at the thought of Heisenberg as a kind of Keyser Soze figure.
-
I, Heisenberg, Cooker of Cookers...look ye and despair
Breaking Bad: Ozymandias (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3dpghfRBHE#ws)
-
In case anyone cares, Season 5 is now up on Netflix.
-
Just re-watched Season 5. Walter's making me wanna root for Agent Schrader at this point.
-
Just re-watched Season 5. Walter's making me wanna root for Agent Schrader at this point.
Really? You don't find Walt sympathetic?
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nWjNgV_6yc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nWjNgV_6yc#ws)
-
The hardest part about the end of this series will be avoiding spoilers!
-
Tread lightly.
-
Okay, well, um... Holy Shit!
Wow.
Uh...uh huh, okay. Ha! Ha ha!
Holy Smokes.
Poor [Redacted]!
That's all I have to say for now!
-
https://twitter.com/PajamaBen_/status/366714497840332801/photo/1
-
"Fun Door open"!
-
My friend produced an interview with Vince Gilligan by Charlie Brooker for a TV conference in Edinburgh. Here is a highlights video at the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/video/2013/aug/23/breaking-bad-creator-vince-gilligan-edinburgh (http://www.theguardian.com/media/video/2013/aug/23/breaking-bad-creator-vince-gilligan-edinburgh)
If a video of the whole thing turns up I will post it.
-
This week's outlook on Walt killing his entire family:
GOOD TO GREAT
-
Hank's in a jam! Think Gomie will figure something out? Nah, I don't either.
-
That police station has become a menagerie of awesome facial hair. Though if I were Hank, I wouldn't take my troubles to Gomie. There's something up with that goatee.
-
Hank and Marie Watch The Video Music Awards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8UUD3zyu7Ek#)
-
I wonder how Todd fits into all of this
-
Todd would slit his mother's throat for a nickel. Walt might find that useful at some point. Also, his willingness to blab about his activities with Walt to everyone and their Nazi uncle could prove problematic.
-
The fact that you guys can still discuss this show seriously after it jumped the shark with that lame blackmail dvd amazes me. If you had any doubts whether this show is ridiculous, those doubts should be completely gone by now.
-
I thought the blackmail DVD was great and pretty much the only thing Walt could have done to solve his Hank problem short of killing the guy.
But I love this show, so Walt could literally jump over a shark and I'd still be on board.
-
Mike, I was thinking after Breaking Nuts that your comments were so off-target that you're clearly getting unhinged by the fact that people like this show and probably you just shouldn't watch it any more.
-
What comments were "off-target," Dr. Cavorting with Nudists?
-
Your mocking remarks about the characters holding conversations in "hushed voices, as if it's so important."
Let's see, we're talking about characters whose entire lives are crumbling around them, who are finding out that their closest relationships have been based on lies, who are facing imprisonment or ruin.
I'm not sure whether your criticism was that they should lighten up and realize that it's not all that important, or that they should be raising their voices more (because that would be a lot more dramatic, you know, like when Michael Corleone screams "I know it was you, Fredo, you broke my heart" at the top of his lungs).
You're obviously a brilliant dude, Mike, but popular things you don't like seem to make you lose your grip.
-
I found all the conversations in hushed voices in that episode particularly pretentious. Walt's meth empire has been exposed and everyone's reaction is to act like they're in an Ingmar Bergman movie. Ridiculous. And Skyler's reaction wasn't exactly consistent with her previous response when she discovered what her husband was up to, was it? Why would she jeopardize losing her infant and son again by aiding in Walt's defense after he's been discovered by Hank? Dumb.
Here's the thing: On the confession dvd Walt admits to committing several crimes. That's enough for him to be arrested (don't any of you watch 48 Hours?). All Hank has to do is bring it down to the station. And the fact that Hank hasn't killed Walt should be enough for the police to figure out whose story makes more sense. But the series still has 5 more episodes to kill, so now we have to pretend, from here on out, that none of the characters has a brain.
-
I found all the conversations in hushed voices in that episode particularly pretentious. Walt's meth empire has been exposed and everyone's reaction is to act like they're in an Ingmar Bergman movie. Ridiculous. And Skyler's reaction wasn't exactly consistent with her previous response when she discovered what her husband was up to, was it? Why would she jeopardize losing her infant and son again by aiding in Walt's defense after he's been discovered by Hank? Dumb.
Here's the thing: On the confession dvd Walt admits to committing several crimes. That's enough for him to be arrested (don't any of you watch 48 Hours?). All Hank has to do is bring it down to the station. And the fact that Hank hasn't killed Walt should be enough for the police to figure out whose story makes more sense. But the series still has 5 more episodes to kill, so now we have to pretend, from here on out, that none of the characters has a brain.
You aren't criminally responsible if someone is forcing you to do the act as Walt is claiming on the DVD.
-
What part of "B_Buster" are you guys forgetting?
Tom.
-
You are if your claims can't be verified. Walt's accusations have to be verified by proof, too. And the fact that Walt is still alive should be enough proof that his story is full of shit.
-
Mike, seriously: Just stop watching it. You'll feel better. But as for this:
Skyler's reaction wasn't exactly consistent with her previous response when she discovered what her husband was up to, was it? Why would she jeopardize losing her infant and son again by aiding in Walt's defense after he's been discovered by Hank? Dumb.
There are several possible explanations: (1) She's afraid of going to prison herself when her past collusion with Walt is discovered. Hank can make all kinds of promises about getting her immunity if she cooperates, but pressuring her not to get a lawyer makes her justifiably gun-shy; (2) She throws in completely with Walt only once the two of them are pretty sure that Hank doesn't have much of a case; (3) She throws in with Walt once she realizes that whatever happens to her legally, the money is gone if Walt goes to prison; she's got gold fever now and has definitively broken as bad as Walt--it's that little thing about characters changing with different circumstances, you know?
But seriously, I'm worried about you! Stop watching it and stop thinking about it!
-
What part of "B_Buster" are you guys forgetting?
Tom.
Hey, I know Mike is a beans-buster. It's him busting a blood vessel I'm worried about.
-
If Hank were the drug kingpin, he wouldn't kill Walt, because then he'd risk the confession getting in the hands of the DEA. And if he, the supposed drug kingpin, thought the confession would inevitably get in the hands of the police, he would turn it into the DEA because that's the option that would make him seem the least suspicious, and the DEA would know that.
And the fact that his brother-in-law was Heisenberg all along (which is of course a ridiculous coincidence) would rightfully draw an immense amount of suspicion on him. He really has no choice but to get solid proof that Walt is Heisenberg or else Walt's phony story could seem plausible.
And yeah, I love Mike's ball busting.
-
The silliest part of the last episode was Hank's reaction to Walt's blackmail scam. He acted as if he'd never heard a criminal come up with some bullshit story to save his ass before. That's never happened before in the history of the world, so it's understandable why he would be reluctant to share it with his co-workers who have also probably never heard a criminal tell a lie before.
Your diagnosis of my mental health isn't exactly helping your case, CwN. It just looks desperate. Like Walter White. Like Breaking Bad.
-
Also, the DEA office has become a menagerie of awesome facial hair (see below). I love it.
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/23e2/l5qw5jh8gx4xz12fg.jpg)
-
Mike, it's not desperation. It's BUSTING YOUR BEANS. Who will bust the beans of the beans-buster?
Watch whatever the hell you want.
-
Mike, stay away from Shakespeare. His characters are so stupid! Macbeth, Lear, everybody in Romeo and Juliet, morons! Othello murders his wife because she misplaced a handkerchief! That's why nobody thinks Shakespeare is entertaining.
Oh wait, I actually kinda hate Shakespeare. You win again, Mike!
-
Mike, I was thinking after Breaking Nuts that your comments were so off-target that you're clearly getting unhinged by the fact that people like this show and probably you just shouldn't watch it any more.
Hinges are overrated.
-
Yeah. Star Trek had the right idea.
-
One has to be able to suspend their disbelief in order to enjoy Breaking Bad, because most everything that's happened on this show is simply beyond the realm of plausibility. While I think Mike makes some excellent points, he has to understand that this show isn't grounded in any kind of reality. If it were, Walt's scheme would have fallen apart long ago and he'd be behind bars.
-
What I think about the video "confession" is:
No, it wouldn't put Hank in the slammer for Drug Lording. It would be a big pain in the neck and probably put him through a really unpleasant and personally expensive legal process. (It would certainly cost him his job, but that's moot in that everyone knows once any of this gets out, Hank is toast at the DEA regardless.)
A large part of the investigation he would be subjected to would be focused on the money that paid his rehab bills. Even if most of the details of Walt's story are instantly disproved as fact, that's a matter that could still land Hank in prison, I would guess.
It's also Walt's insurance against Hank going after vigilante justice, since it begins with "If you're seeing this, I am probably dead, murdered by my brother-in-law, Hank Schrader."
It also sends a clear signal to the Schraders that all gloves are off, that even if this particular trick isn't the final solution to Walt's situation, there is no limit to how far he'll go in making their lives miserable if they, for instance, continue trying to snatch the kids.
So no, it isn't quite the fatal noose around Hank's neck that the writers probably want us to see it as, but Hank and Marie are right to be appalled by it.
Mike is right about that, as far as it goes, but I'm still wondering how he would have directed the conversation scenes in "Buried." What is exactly the right decibel level at which to discuss the mutual devastation of four deeply entwined lives?
-
I liked it when the fat guy laid down on the money.
-
The fact that you guys can still discuss this show seriously after it jumped the shark with that lame blackmail dvd amazes me. If you had any doubts whether this show is ridiculous, those doubts should be completely gone by now.
You're right Mike, but I'm just gonna plow on and watch...just like I did when the whole Sopranos gang showed up at the local premiere of Christophah's "Cleaver" or when he punched out Lauren Bacall.
What part of "B_Buster" are you guys forgetting?
That's why I drink Coors Light 16 oz'ers when I watch my favorite show. Chikoo.
-
I thought the blackmail DVD was great and pretty much the only thing Walt could have done to solve his Hank problem short of killing the guy.
But I love this show, so Walt could literally jump over a shark and I'd still be on board.
Yeah, I agree. I thought the blackmail DVD was really well written.
-
A lot of people here are getting hung up on the confession DVD, but I'm mostly disappointed that so much of the end game is apparently going to turn on that ridiculous plan of Walt's from the end of Season 4 that they never really bothered to fully think through. (The vague talk of "Walt is the...Evil Juice Box Man!" that they came up with after the season didn't really sell me on any of the contrivances we debated many pages ago in this thread.)
It's not ruining the show for me or anything, but I would prefer not being reminded as often as how goofy the whole thing was by repeatedly going back to Huell's super pickpocket powers and The Only Vial Of Ricin In The World. I have plenty of faith in the ending being good and am still very entertained each week, but the S4 ending and deflating book-on-the-toilet reveal of S5 has tested my fandom a bit.
-
A lot of people here are getting hung up on the confession DVD, but I'm mostly disappointed that so much of the end game is apparently going to turn on that ridiculous plan of Walt's from the end of Season 4 that they never really bothered to fully think through. (The vague talk of "Walt is the...Evil Juice Box Man!" that they came up with after the season didn't really sell me on any of the contrivances we debated many pages ago in this thread.)
It's not ruining the show for me or anything, but I would prefer not being reminded as often as how goofy the whole thing was by repeatedly going back to Huell's super pickpocket powers and The Only Vial Of Ricin In The World. I have plenty of faith in the ending being good and am still very entertained each week, but the S4 ending and deflating book-on-the-toilet reveal of S5 has tested my fandom a bit.
Yes. I love the show unconditionally, but an obese Huell pulling off Ricky Jay-level (as it was referred to earlier in the thread) trickery and Walt then sneaking into Jesse's girlfriend's house and somehow getting Brock to ingest poison is just pretty dumb.
In addition to the two things you mentioned, the plane collision in Season 2 was something that always stuck in my craw. What was the point of that? Was it supposed to be symbolic of how Walt's actions adversely affect other people? Were we supposed to think that Walt was really at fault for Jane's father causing the collision? Why spend the whole season building up to it?
-
I haven't done this with the last episode, but if you frame-by-frame the sequence where Huell nabs the ricin, you can see him do it. He's pretty slick!
I don't think we were supposed to think that Walt was responsible for the plane crash exactly, but yeah, it was supposed to be a metaphor I think. I didn't mind it because as (I think) the A. V. Club recapper mentioned, one of the defining traits of the show is its audacity. Would that magnet have pulled everything off the evidence shelves and made the truck bash into the wall? Who knows? It's entertaining TV.
-
Also, the actor who plays Huell, Lavell Crawford, does stand-up comedy (I don't know all that much about stand-up comedy, so if this is common knowledge, forgive me). It's ridiculously offensive and stupid, but I can't get enough of it.
Lavell Crawford Tsunami Relief (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPIgs-90vuc#)
-
I haven't done this with the last episode, but if you frame-by-frame the sequence where Yuell nabs the ricin, you can see him do it. He's pretty slick!
I don't think we were supposed to thin that Walt was responsible for the plane crash exactly, but yeah, it was supposed to be a metaphor I think. I didn't mind it because as (I think) the A. V. Club recapper mentioned, one of the defining traits of the show is its audacity. Would that magnet have pulled everything off the evidence shelves and made the truck bash into the wall? Who knows? It's entertaining TV.
Yeah, in the end, it's extremely entertaining, and I can very easily overlook what I think are its flaws.
This should be posted:
Breaking Bad: Badger's Star Trek Script [Animated] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqIJ3hgkIDY#ws)
-
Yes. I love the show unconditionally, but an obese Huell pulling off Ricky Jay-level (as it was referred to earlier in the thread) trickery and Walt then sneaking into Jesse's girlfriend's house and somehow getting Brock to ingest poison is just pretty dumb.
Ricky Jay is plenty big too.
-
Plenty big, but not that big. Huell is morbidly obese.
-
Also, the actor who plays Huell, Lavell Crawford, does stand-up comedy (I don't know all that much about stand-up comedy, so if this is common knowledge, forgive me). It's ridiculously offensive and stupid, but I can't get enough of it.
Lavell Crawford Tsunami Relief (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPIgs-90vuc#)
What was that comedy show on BET? I seam to remember him from that.
-
I haven't done this with the last episode, but if you frame-by-frame the sequence where Huell nabs the ricin, you can see him do it. He's pretty slick!
The only reason I knew that Huell had swiped the bag of pot in the episode from last week was because we had the subtitles on (due to all of the whispering that keeps going on!) and they noted "bag rustles" or similar when Huell passed by Jesse in the doorway. No way I'd have noticed on first watch otherwise.
I don't think we were supposed to think that Walt was responsible for the plane crash exactly, but yeah, it was supposed to be a metaphor I think.
As with anything, everyone will have a different take on it. I don't think Walt directly caused the plane crash, patently Jane's dad was at fault.
However, I thought that the whole thing was pretty great way to show the repercussions of the drugs business and how it negatively reaches into wider society. And thus show the effects of what Walt has been doing for 2 seasons. Yeah, a plane crash is a big way to do that, but this is a TV show and it's supposed to be entertaining.
Same goes for many of the other things from alter seasons mentioned above. You can pick holes in any story, but where is the fun in that?
-
I haven't done this with the last episode, but if you frame-by-frame the sequence where Huell nabs the ricin, you can see him do it. He's pretty slick!
In this past episode, they make the pot pickpocketing pretty explicit - you can see him do it, and then he and Saul nod at each other after he's done it. In the S4 version, he touches the pocket and then puts his hand in his own pocket, which is where it happens, but there's no way he lifts the exact cigarette without looking in that second (this is what I object to, mechanically, so I don't factor Huell's weight in outside of having big hands, I guess), so I suppose he switches packs (which has its own set of questions best ignored).
But anyway, it wasn't the actual pickpocket move I had/have problems with, it's Walt's insane plan that forms around it. The plane in S2 is different, in that it's a crazy, terrible thing that happens as an unforseeable result of a series of things that Walt and Jesse do and does work as a way of showing the consequences of Walt's actions on the world around him. S4's ending is more like if Walt had an endgame of bringing a plane down on the city for some reason and then came up with this plan to get Jesse and Jane together, manipulate Jane into blackmailing him, have them do heroin and come in and trigger Jane to choke to death while ODing in order to drive her dad into the state that the crash happens.
Again, no dealbreaker, as I'm enjoying the show and especially Walt/Saul/Hank/Marie this year. It's just that the two plot elements that came off most hastily and lazily constructed (Walt's poison plan, the book in the bathroom) ending up as the driving factors for Jesse and Hank going after Walt has been a little disappointing. None of this will be bothering me when Gomie shows up in a tank and runs over the nazis to save Hank or Jesse uses science to build a Robot Jesse to fool Walt in the finale as I hope.
-
It's funny, when I saw this thread at the top of the forum I thought to myself, "That show is getting so popular that it's about time for Mike to start shitting on it."
-
I wouldn't consider his weight a factor if it was just plain pickpocketing. But taking someone's pack of cigarettes and replacing it with a duplicate pack seems like it would require some dexterity (also, how would they know how many cigarettes Jesse has in his pack? As a smoker (I'm trying to quit -- don't bust balls), I would know something was up if I had five cigarettes left and then suddenly had fifteen in my pack). Plus, yeah, his having large sausage fingers (I think that's how Saul described them in one episode) makes it seem even more unbelievable.
-
Great post, Wes! Robot Jesse is my new preferred ending!
With regards to the book in the bathroom, I actually really liked that. Until it was reveled in the first ep of the back-8 that Hank was pooping in the en-suite toilet in Walt and Skyler's bedroom.
I did not like it then as I'm sure there is a main bathroom that guests would use, rather than walk into someones bedroom and drop a stinky deuce 10 yards from where they sleep. NOT COOL HANK.
-
I think Dean Norris has said something like Yeah, well, if you're in the home of a family member, and you're there all the time to the point where it's almost like a second home, you go to the big, spacious bathroom. I'd probably give my wife's brother-in-law a dirty look if I found him doing it, but hey, it's Hank, he feels entitled.
-
However, I thought that the whole thing was pretty great way to show the repercussions of the drugs business and how it negatively reaches into wider society.
This is another reason I dislike the show. The repercussions of the meth business is hardly shown at all in Breaking Bad. Showing how Walt's high standards have contributed to the death and destruction of its users obviously might spoil our "rooting" for him. At least The Sopranos didn't shy away from the damage its criminal characters were causing to other people (and not just other criminals).
-
However, I thought that the whole thing was pretty great way to show the repercussions of the drugs business and how it negatively reaches into wider society.
This is another reason I dislike the show. The repercussions of the meth business is hardly shown at all in Breaking Bad. Showing how Walt's high standards have contributed to the death and destruction of its users obviously might spoil our "rooting" for him. At least The Sopranos didn't shy away from the damage its criminal characters were causing to other people (and not just other criminals).
That's the one aspect of the show that I find most bothersome. It doesn't do nearly a good enough job of conveying to the viewer the lives that have been decimated by meth use. In the first few seasons, the writers at least made an attempt to show the deleterious effects that meth had on those that use it (i.e. Jane, Jesse, Wendy, that methhead couple). That seems to have been abandoned in subsequent seasons, however.
-
Some uncharacteristic schoolmarmishness from Mike. I have noticed this, and I assume it's a conscious choice on Vince Gilligan's part, and I imagine the thinking went something like: "We're not going to spend a lot of screen time on afterschool-special-type warnings on the danger of drug abuse. Our audience is made up of adults, and if they know what the word 'meth' means, they know it's bad shit, and it would just look like we're covering our ass."
In any case it's pretty funny to think they avoid it because it might spoil our 'rooting' for Walt. Yeah--obviously their primary concern is to keep us rooting for Walt.
-
I think that aspect will be highlighted more in the upcoming episodes, provided Hank doesn't kick the bucket. Hank has said several times that Walt has "ruined lives" by producing meth, and I think he'll continue to be outspoken about it. Walt has consciously separated himself from the actual dealing and use of meth, and I have a feeling (though I could definitely be wrong) he'll get a glimpse of the horror meth has inflicted on people's lives before the show is through.
But I don't know that most people who watch the show really root for Walt, at least not after the 2nd - 3rd season. He's committed unbelievably despicable acts, and the only admirable thing about him at this point is his ballsy, clever ways of getting out of seemingly hopeless situations (but even then, these generally involve him doing something horrible).
-
Not to be a nag on the subject, but I actually think this:
I have a feeling (though I could definitely be wrong) he'll get a glimpse of the horror meth has inflicted on people's lives before the show is through.
...would kind of suck. Walt deserves a lot of suffering before he dies, to be sure, but if any of that suffering takes the form of seeing what his product has done to its users, that would be a sentimental retreat on the show's part. It would mean that he still has a conscience left. He's become fully a monster; let the writers stick it out to the end.
(The only way he could credibly be affected by witnessing the ravages of meth would be if Walt Jr. were using it, but that would be too hokey for belief.)
-
Hey, I'm not the guy who came up with the idea that viewers are rooting for Walt. Yet it comes up all the time on Talking Bad (and I'm glad to say not on Breaking Nutz--as the Executive Producer I won't have it). Samuel L. Jackson even suggested that he's rooting for Walt because he's a super badass or something equally idiotic. Also, did The Sopranos turn into an afterschool special when they showed the effects of its criminal characters' behavior? Hardly.
-
Not to be a nag on the subject, but I actually think this:
I have a feeling (though I could definitely be wrong) he'll get a glimpse of the horror meth has inflicted on people's lives before the show is through.
...would kind of suck. Walt deserves a lot of suffering before he dies, to be sure, but if any of that suffering takes the form of seeing what his product has done to its users, that would be a sentimental retreat on the show's part. It would mean that he still has a conscience left. He's become fully a monster; let the writers stick it out to the end.
(The only way he could credibly be affected by witnessing the ravages of meth would be if Walt Jr. were using it, but that would be too hokey for belief.)
I'm not saying that Walt would give a shit. He definitely wouldn't. I think, though, that Hank will (or might) try to show Walt the suffering Walt's caused by creating this awesome high-quality meth product, something that no one on the show thus far but Hank has cared about.
And yeah, Walt Jr. becoming a methhead would be immensely stupid.
I hope they have Gilbert Gottfried on Talking Bad at some point; his rendition of the "I am the one who knocks" speech was Oscar-worthy (while SLJ's was just stupid and embarrassing).
-
Hey, I'm not the guy who came up with the idea that viewers are rooting for Walt.
Anti-heros are getting all kind of talk, these days.
Probably means the concept will soon be dead.
-
Hey, I'm not the guy who came up with the idea that viewers are rooting for Walt.
But you are the one who came up with the idea that the makers avoid showing the consequences of meth use because that "obviously might spoil our 'rooting' for him." If that was uppermost in their minds, maybe they shoulda rethought that poisoning-a-little-kid idea.
-
Hey, I'm not the guy who came up with the idea that viewers are rooting for Walt.
Anti-heros are getting all kind of talk, these days.
Probably means the concept will soon be dead.
From your fingertips to G-d's peepers, Fredericks.
-
I think Dean Norris has said something like Yeah, well, if you're in the home of a family member, and you're there all the time to the point where it's almost like a second home, you go to the big, spacious bathroom. I'd probably give my wife's brother-in-law a dirty look if I found him doing it, but hey, it's Hank, he feels entitled.
That must be a difference in housing between the UK and the US. My en-suite bathroom is little. The main bathroom that a guest would use is much larger, and this is also the case in other people's homes I know of with more than one bathroom. That said, actually more houses of people I know have only the one bathroom, as houses here are older etc. In fact my buddy's house still has the old style outhouse toilet that was the norm in the Victorian era. (He has an indoor bathroom as well and the actual toilet outside is a modern replacement from the original one.)
I'm sure me talking about the differences in bathroom setups between newly built suburban Albuquerque homes and urban/sub-urban homes built in the late 1800's in the North of England is exactly what Vince Gilligan was trying to get started when they wrote that scene,
-
Mike's point about the Soprano's is valid. There were quite a few episodes showing how what those guys did fucked over "innocent bystanders" going about their day-to-day business. The gardener/landscaper guy comes to mind. There was no doubt that all of those guys were a blight on the areas of New Jersey they were operating in.
As for rooting for anti-heroes, some people might be. I generally am not rooting for them to "succeed" or "win" but I am hoping for the most entertaining story possible. So if that means Tony Soprano beating Ralphie to death, or Don Draper cheating on his wife with his ex-wife who he cheated on repeatedly, or Jax Teller throwing a guys off roofs, or Walter White becoming the meth emperor of the South-West, so be it. I leave it up to the writers to decide if they can get "win" and get away with it forever or not. Which made it fun when David Chase refused to make that call and let you to decide for yourself.
-
I thought of Fred Mertz as the anti-hero.
-
1940s-1950s Frawley would make Walt look like a choir boy.
-
I still wasn't sure why Jesse pulled out a joint and smoked it in Saul's office last week.
-
I still wasn't sure why Jesse pulled out a joint and smoked it in Saul's office last week.
A. He likes getting high
B. He was under a lot of stress and likes getting high to relieve stress
C. He's generally pissed off at all authority figures everywhere and knew it would bug Saul, which he liked
D. It was a necessary plot point
E. All of the above
-
So how many times has Walt been called the devil now?
-
So how many times has Walt been called the devil now?
Kicking myself that I didn't get into a "Walt is the devil" over or under pool.
-
Every time I remember that someone said "Walt is the devil", I imagine throwing back a shot.
-
Todd's the real devil. Walt at least has some limits.
-
Just piping in to make sure everybody's aware of Todd's popular Internet nickname, 'Meth Damon'.
-
This is what the show looks like to Mike
The Dukes of Heisenberg / Breaking Bad: Hazzard County (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3RvmkpkGfY#)
-
Well. my jaw was dropped.
To the floor for 45 minutes.
After which it descended to the basement and sub-basement.
My feeling on a single viewing was that this was where this final mini-season shifted from "plot movement based on stratagems that um, might kiiiiinda plausibly work if a zillion disparate tumblers cooperated in falling into place" to "plot movement based on dueling stratagems (what were there in this episode, 4? at least 3) that APPEAR totally plausible, just some foiled and some not." Am I wrong?
And as a last note, Walt's crawling amid the rocks in what seemed like the 45:00-55:00 marks kinda reminded me of Hank Quinlan near the end of Orson Welles' Touch of Evil--not visually, just moodwise--the secretly corrupt tough guy who's called all the shots for so long, finally being hounded into a corner. Love that Touch of Evil!
-
And as a last note, Walt's crawling amid the rocks in what seemed like the 45:00-55:00 marks kinda reminded me of Hank Quinlan near the end of Orson Welles' Touch of Evil--not visually, just moodwise--the secretly corrupt tough guy who's called all the shots for so long, finally being hounded into a corner. Love that Touch of Evil!
That and every Western ever.
-
(Spoiler Alert!)
Love finds Todd. Sort of sweet! In a very creepy way.
-
If the shootout continues for the next 2 episodes with every character standing in the open, firing away, and not getting shot, you may consider me a superfan.
-
And as a last note, Walt's crawling amid the rocks in what seemed like the 45:00-55:00 marks kinda reminded me of Hank Quinlan near the end of Orson Welles' Touch of Evil--not visually, just moodwise--the secretly corrupt tough guy who's called all the shots for so long, finally being hounded into a corner. Love that Touch of Evil!
That and every Western ever.
Probably the most masterful ball cracking in this thread! I salute you, mos!
-
Now that I think about it, Breaking Bad may have taken a page out of the Sons of Anarchy playbook with that shootout where no one seems able to hit the side of a barn.
-
And as a last note, Walt's crawling amid the rocks in what seemed like the 45:00-55:00 marks kinda reminded me of Hank Quinlan near the end of Orson Welles' Touch of Evil--not visually, just moodwise--the secretly corrupt tough guy who's called all the shots for so long, finally being hounded into a corner. Love that Touch of Evil!
That and every Western ever.
Probably the most masterful ball cracking in this thread! I salute you, mos!
My balls feel strangely uncracked. The Searchers doesn't have a scene like that. High Noon doesn't. I'm not recalling any from Stagecoach, Rio Bravo, The Wild Bunch, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, The Furies, Ride the High Country, Red River, 40 Guns, Johnny Guitar, The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, A Fistful of Dollars, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, Fort Apache, My Darling Clementine, Three Godfathers, The Naked Spur, Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, Destry Rides Again? -- hmmf, nada. I guess my unsuffering balls and I just haven't seen the right Westerns. Winchester 73 had a scene kinda like that I think, except the cornered bad guy was just a desert rat who'd been getting away too long with killing Jimmy Stewart's father, not particularly a string-pulling crime kingpin, and he's neither the point-of-view character, as Walt is, or the most charismatic character, as Quinlan is, but it's true I should have remembered that and my balls will ache a little for, oh, 10 seconds in penance.
-
Breaking Bad may have taken a page out of the Sons of Anarchy playbook
I didn't see any rocket launchers...yet
With 3 episodes left to go, Walt Jr. still has no idea what's up. I find that hilarious and adorable.
-
If the shootout continues for the next 2 episodes with every character standing in the open, firing away, and not getting shot, you may consider me a superfan.
John Ford, Howard Hawks, Sergio Leone, Sam Peckinpah, and John Woo have registered your objections and will henceforth observe strict realism in their gunfight sequences.
-
Breaking Bad may have taken a page out of the Sons of Anarchy playbook
I didn't see any rocket launchers...yet
With 3 episodes left to go, Walt Jr. still has no idea what's up. I find that hilarious and adorable.
Walter Jr. has to be the most inept character in the history of fiction.
-
Oh like you were so smart when you were 16.
-
Ok so before this final mini-season started, I kind of felt like the last season of the Sopranos would be a kind of touch-point equivalent for how things might play out. Albeit, as the reviewer at the AV Club noted, then you have to be careful what you wish for as a viewer because whilst it likely has to happen, I didn't want to have to watch most everyone that isn't Walt, Skyler or Walt Jr die, like I did with the Jersey crime family (It still bums me out whenever I think about what happened to Bobby. And Paulie - Paulie survived?)
So I got to thinking that "To’hajiilee"is the Breaking Bad equivalent to "The Blue Comet". "The Blue Comet" is one of my favorite episodes of TV ever and to evoke that pleased me greatly.
Hank's "victory" over Walt was the moral denouement equivalent to Melfi ending her treatment of Tony. Plus the shootouts in both.
But there was only 1 episode of the Sopranos left after "the Blue Comet" There are 3 left of Breaking Bad. It's gonna get messier isn't it?
-
None of this will be bothering me when Gomie shows up in a tank and runs over the nazis to save Hank
This came so close to happening! If only Gomie had brought a tank!
-
This came so close to happening! If only Gomie had brought a tank!
What did he bring?
A riding lawnmower?
-
Hank could still make it.
-
Hank could still make it.
Definitely.
Those white supremacist guys seem to have ridiculously bad aim.
-
Hank could still make it.
Definitely.
Those white supremacist guys seem to have ridiculously bad aim.
Don't talk ill of the Von Trimbles.
-
Hank could still make it.
See, I think he will make it, and here's why: Who ends an episode on a cliffhanger and then begins the next episode with what seemed the inevitable progression of events? It's like, when the episode ends with Jesse splashing the gasoline all over Walt's house, well we know he's not going to light the flame mainly because we know from the flash-forward that the house hasn't been burned down, but even so, how lame would it be to end one episode with him pouring the gas, then begin the next with him torching the place?
The fact that just before the Nazis show up, Hank does the one thing that virtually always seals a fictional cop's fate--calls his wife and tells her he'll be home soon and that he loves her--makes me think even more strongly that the writers have an out for him; would they really invoke that threadbare cliche without intending to subvert it?
Damned if I can figure out how he'll make it, though. If only there were someone else who could show up in a tank. Yuell?
-
Some of the most famous film shoot out scenes are gift wrapped in this article with a side of real police gunfire stats.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/09/09/breaking_bad_mexican_standoff_at_to_hajiilee_was_that_the_worst_marksmanship.html?wpisrc=obnetwork (http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/09/09/breaking_bad_mexican_standoff_at_to_hajiilee_was_that_the_worst_marksmanship.html?wpisrc=obnetwork)
-
Maybe that guy from the auto yard shows up with a big ass magnet that rips all the firearms out of everyone's hands.
-
If only there were someone else who could show up in a tank. Yuell?
The next episode opens in mid gunfight. Then you see shadows floating in front of all the shooters' eyes. Something is blocking the sun, but what? It's Lydia! with Czech parachute-commandos in crystal blue jumpsuits come floating down like tea bags from the sky. The Madrigal corporate logo shown on the top of their chutes from an artsy camera shot from above them. They unleash hell upon the neo-Nazis as their grandfathers did as partisans during the Big One to old Nazis. Her mismatched high heels are the last thing Hank ('hey...no...no...n-") notices before he's shot between the eyes by the beguiling Drug Lady, who has Jesse and Walt roughly handled and thrown down to those mismatched high heels. Walt is flummoxed. "But h-h-how...wha? Lyd..." "I track things, Walt. It's what I do. And what you do, what you two do," getting both Walt's and Jesse's undivided attention, "is cook." Gomie, amazingly unnoticed, gets away...
-
We have learned that no matter how many millions of ways a thing can end, at least one of them involves Miller Time, or SchraderBrau time in this case.
-
Now that I think about it, Breaking Bad may have taken a page out of the Sons of Anarchy playbook with that shootout where no one seems able to hit the side of a barn.
On a similar SoA note, I briefly wondered what if the white supremacists turned out to be undercover g-men...
-
THIS ISN'T FUN ANY MORE!!!
-
THIS ISN'T FUN ANY MORE!!!
No it isn't.
As much as I love the show, I think I'm ready for it to end. I say that knowing that I'll probably regret uttering those words next summer when it's not around.
Hopefully, "Better Call Saul" will provide a nice comic respite. It's definitely needed.
-
I mean, I give Vince Gilligan and the writers credit. They must have said something like "Some of you freaks out there are still rooting for Walt? Have you really considered the devastation his choices are going to visit on everyone in his orbit? Think we've shown even a little of that by now? No, we really haven't--try THIS on for size." They've pulled the string pretty effectively on those of us who were finding this sordid creep's saga "entertaining." That was one punishing hour of filmed narrative.
-
Breaking Bad has always been a dark, dark show, but in the earlier seasons it had comic undertones, which I think distinguished it from its peers. This season has been almost completely bereft of those moments.
Even Saul has seemingly lost his sense of humor.
I mean, I give Vince Gilligan and the writers credit. They must have said something like "Some of you freaks out there are still rooting for Walt? Have you really considered the devastation his choices are going to visit on everyone in his orbit? Think we've shown even a little of that by now? No, we really haven't--try THIS on for size." They've pulled the string pretty effectively on those of us who were finding this sordid creep's saga "entertaining." That was one punishing hour of filmed narrative.
It was either Dean Norris or Bill Hader that made almost this exact same point during tonight's after-show. I think that's exactly what Vince Gilligan was aiming for, to completely eliminate whatever was left of Walt's pathos. After this episode, I think everyone now sees him for what he is, a deceitful, conniving, and irredeemably evil megalomaniac. If there are still people out there "rooting" for Walt, it's because they themselves are sick.
But as punishing and harrowing as tonight's episode was, it still ranks as perhaps the best single hour of television I've ever watched. The only thing that may come close, in my mind, is the second to last episode of The Sopranos.
-
I couldn't help but laugh at the horrific family knife fight scene when it immediately cut/to "brought to you by Cadillac".
-
Can you think of another car company that knows knife fights better than Cadillac?
What I liked about the flashforwards in both S5 premieres is they took the pressure off worrying if Walt survives, and instead made the audience wonder how Walt will lose everyone close to him.
For the last 2 episodes, I'm only wondering which Death Wish sequel Walt's killing spree will hit before Jesse caps him. Personally, I'm hoping for III.
-
(Spoiler:) At the point where Todd hitched that line to Jesse's belt, it wasn't clear that Todd was completely satisfied that Jesse had told him everything. Was I the only one who thought Todd was gonna hoist him up and lower him slowly into a tub of the acid they'd used to turn corpses into goo? The show was going so pleasantly by that point that it wouldn't have been a radical shift of tone.
-
Rather disappointed all the Nazis came out of that unscathed. At least one of them could have been wounded.
The show has stopped being 'fun', but on the other hand it's fascinating to watch them ratchet up the mayhem every week. Eventually they will shake off everybody except the true sociopaths still aligning themselves with #teamwalt.
I would still at this point have Red Wedding from Game Of Thrones as the television episode to beat for cruelty to the audience, if anyone's familiar with that. But I believe by the end of the season it will have been exceeded.
-
You knew Walt and Jesse were going to make it out of that shootout unscathed, right? And, since there's only 2 more episodes left, you knew the cops were disposable (because cops aren't as badass as Nazis). Most predictable shootout ever.
-
Most predictable shootout ever.
Now, there is a man who has never seen a Western.
-
Breaking Bad has always been a dark, dark show, but in the earlier seasons it had comic undertones, which I think distinguished it from its peers. This season has been almost completely bereft of those moments.
Well, Todd's "Sorry for your loss" was a chuckle, sort of.
-
I'm starting to agree with Mike on this show. Walt confesses everything over the phone before verifying if Jesse's telling the truth? The neo-Nazis don't kill Walt after they find his money and he's handcuffed in the middle of the desert? What gives?
-
Most predictable shootout ever.
Now, there is a man who has never seen a Western.
So you agree that Breaking Bad is equivalent to a B Western? I concur!
-
And what was the deal with Walt's overreaction to Hank's death? Were they ever such good buddies? Or did he just want to get out of digging up the money?
-
Most predictable shootout ever.
Now, there is a man who has never seen a Western.
So you agree that Breaking Bad is equivalent to a B Western? I concur!
No, I think it's comparable to a really really top-flight Western. But if you think that was the most predictable shootout ever, I suggest you never see a classic John Ford or Don Siegel. It's gonna blow your whole world upside down when John Wayne or Henry Fonda or Clint Eastwood gets into a shootout and the other guy gets killed.
-
I've seen plenty of Westerns. But here's the thing: all those old guys were there first. Why is Breaking Bad, the "best," most "cutting edge" television show ever, taking its cues from a bunch of old westerns? Where's the cutting edge in that?
-
"Mike don't care."
-
You knew Walt and Jesse were going to make it out of that shootout unscathed, right? And, since there's only 2 more episodes left, you knew the cops were disposable (because cops aren't as badass as Nazis). Most predictable shootout ever.
Next time make your predictions before the show airs.
-
You knew Walt and Jesse were going to make it out of that shootout unscathed, right? And, since there's only 2 more episodes left, you knew the cops were disposable (because cops aren't as badass as Nazis). Most predictable shootout ever.
Next time make your predictions before the show airs.
Will do. I didn't do it this time because I was afraid it would make me look like a complete jackass.
-
Mike doesn't like MAD MEN because nothing happens. He doesn't like BREAKING BAD because too much happens.
He's a hard guy to make happy!
And I feel proud to be the architect of one of the two things Mike actually likes, the other being THE SOPRANOS.
Tom.
-
You knew Walt and Jesse were going to make it out of that shootout unscathed, right?
Pretty much. I figured, just pulling a figure out of my butt hole, Jesse would have... say a 1-2% chance of dying, Walt would be zero percent chance of death during the shoot out. We know he has to make it to his 52nd birthday...
Mike, would you say the inaugural volume of AP Mike's Book Club, "Methland" is a useful companion to the show?
-
Mike doesn't like MAD MEN because nothing happens. He doesn't like BREAKING BAD because too much happens.
He's a hard guy to make happy!
And I feel proud to be the architect of one of the two things Mike actually likes, the other being THE SOPRANOS.
Tom.
You should feel proud, Tom. I'm very discriminating! Although in your case I'm afraid my enthusiastic endorsement might be some sort of kiss of death.
-
You knew Walt and Jesse were going to make it out of that shootout unscathed, right?
Mike, would you say the inaugural volume of AP Mike's Book Club, "Methland" is a useful companion to the show?
Not at all. Methland is about the real world. Breaking Bad is a very entertaining B Western (this is my definitive critique--thank you for getting me here, cavorting).
-
... a very entertaining B Western.
Sounds like a Christgau review.
-
Mike doesn't like MAD MEN because nothing happens. He doesn't like BREAKING BAD because too much happens.
He's a hard guy to make happy!
And I feel proud to be the architect of one of the two things Mike actually likes, the other being THE SOPRANOS.
Tom.
You invented Coors Light?
-
Who's going to rescue Jesse? His only true friends, Skinny Pete and Badger? Or will Jesse blow up the meth lab with Todd in it?
-
Who's going to rescue Jesse? His only true friends, Skinny Pete and Badger? Or will Jesse blow up the meth lab with Todd in it?
Maybe Walt will go for one last chance at redemption by rescuing Jesse and decimating Uncle Jack's motley crew. I don't think such a scenario is entirely implausible. He has to have gone back to Albuquerque for a reason.
-
I thought Walt left Albequerque at the end of the episode.
The next episode is called "Granite State," which is New Hampshire.
The finale is called "Felina," which is Italian for cat-like (e.g., lands on one's feet?)
-
You knew Walt and Jesse were going to make it out of that shootout unscathed, right?
Mike, would you say the inaugural volume of AP Mike's Book Club, "Methland" is a useful companion to the show?
Not at all. Methland is about the real world. Breaking Bad is a very entertaining B Western (this is my definitive critique--thank you for getting me here, cavorting).
Oh, just give it up, Mike. The only reason you think BB should pay more attention to the effects of Walt's product on its consumers is 'cause you thought the dude in Methland who saw heads hanging from the tree outside his window was hilarious. I see you, Man.
Now.
Hey Mike, name a B Western. I don't mean a Western that you would personally give a grade of "B," I mean a Western movie that meets the industry definition of a "B movie." That's something you should have a clear idea of if you're going to include it in your "definitive review" of something, right? Let's hear an example of what you're putting BB on a level with. No Googling!
-
I thought Walt left Albequerque at the end of the episode.
The next episode is called "Granite State," which is New Hampshire.
The finale is called "Felina," which is Italian for cat-like (e.g., lands on one's feet?)
Yeah, he did. He assumed a new identity with the help of Saul's guy--evidently in New Hampshire, because in the flash-forward he has NH license plates and a NH license under the name "Lambert." So it sounds like the next ep will detail his new identity and the finale will involve his coming back to--I dunno. I like cats!
-
^
Cats have nine lives.
Was that actual footage from the first season back in the trailer or was that filmed this season with them wearing wigs?
I too think the Walt/Hank dynamic was over-dramatic and out-of-character-- Walt defending Hank's dignity ("His name is Hank"), Walt getting to hear Hank show him respect ("You're the smartest man I know..."), Walt's despair, his cold-hearted confession to Jesse about Jane and his killer stare after. Other than that I think the show was emotionally true.
And Todd's real motive for taking Jesse with him was to make him cook. Properly. Make it blue again. For Lydia. Cherchez la femme.
PS Is this the latest into a show with opening credits? 23+ minutes w/o commercials.
-
PS Is this the latest into a show with opening credits? 23+ minutes w/o commercials.
Yeah, seriously! I thought they were the end credits for a moment when they finally started.
-
I thought Walt left Albequerque at the end of the episode.
The next episode is called "Granite State," which is New Hampshire.
The finale is called "Felina," which is Italian for cat-like (e.g., lands on one's feet?)
He did.
But in the flash forward at the beginning of the season, Walt was back in Albuquerque.
-
POINTLESS SPECULATION TIME.
1) What will Walt do with all the weapons he bought in the flash forward?
2) Whom is the ricin meant for?
3) Who dies in the next two episodes?
4) At the end of the series, who, if anyone, ends up with Walt's $11M?
-
POINTLESS SPECULATION TIME.
1) What will Walt do with all the weapons he bought in the flash forward?
2) Whom is the ricin meant for?
3) Who dies in the next two episodes?
4) At the end of the series, who, if anyone, ends up with Walt's $11M?
1) I'm assuming the Nazis will kill Marie to obtain Jesse's confession tape (and possibly kill Skyler to tie up loose ends), and Walt will want to take them out as revenge.
2) Difficult to know. Maybe Gretchen and Elliott?
3) Uncle Jack, Todd, Lydia, Jesse, Walt, Marie, and maybe Skyler.
4) No one.
-
1) I'm assuming the Nazis will kill Marie to obtain Jesse's confession tape (and possibly kill Skyler to tie up loose ends), and Walt will want to take them out as revenge.
I don't think Walt would put himself in that much danger to avenge Marie. Skyler maybe, Walt Jr. definitely. In any case it's seeming very probable to me that he's taking that gun to meet with the Nazis--maybe to avenge somebody, maybe to get his 69 million bucks back, maybe because he just doesn't like them.
Dunno about the ricin, but Lydia seems like a good target--not sure about a motive though.
-
I think Walt will live. He won't have all the money. His cancer will come back. At the end of the series, he will be at the same place he was when it started, possibly with less than he had before (e.g., Skylar will be killed or his family will leave him.)
-
I think Budd Boetticher's Westerns would make a nice comparison, cavorting. Although some are considered classics now (especially the films with Randolph Scott), they weren't thought of as classics when they were released. They're not particularly groundbreaking, but they are very entertaining. I think the reason Breaking Bad is so overpraised is because the landscape has changed. Most movies and television shows are complete junk now--they're not made for adults, they're made for children and idiots (anyone see Under the Dome last night? Painful. The only reason I watched was because I thought Tom and I could joke around about it, but even that ran out of gas).
I recently watched John Huston's The Night of the Iguana again. I forgot how nuts that movie really was. But as I was watching, I was thinking it felt like something from another planet. I couldn't even imagine a movie like that getting made today. Can you imagine a director like John Huston, who relied on literary works for most of his source material (Fat City, Wise Blood, Under the Volcano, Moby Dick, The Dead, etc.), working today? Instead we have to be thankful for a few morsels that don't insult our intelligence (like Blue Jasmine, a sort of watered down version of A Streetcar Named Desire for our times. And Mad Men. And Breaking Bad).
-
Cavorting, in the voice of Season 3ish era Walt to your Jesse Pinkman, don't read the post above this! For god sake's use reason, can't you see he's trying to hook you in!?! ***aside: if only I can make him see it from a logical perspective***
In the voice of Mike Ehmantraut "Walk away kid"
-
For god sake's use reason, can't you see he's trying to hook you in!?!
B_Buster's b_busting skills are at an Olympic level.
-
Nah, that wasn't a provocative post. At least Mike said something concrete rather than picking some absurdly not-the-point nit, as if those of us who like the show are suckers somehow because we thought they were talking at an appropriate volume level, and I don't disagree all that much except that I am decidedly not thankful for Woody Allen.
Anyway, this:
Everybody dies...except Walt.
really made me laugh when Steve of Bloomington posted it, but it's beginning to seem more and more plausible.
-
This week's outlook on Walt killing his entire family:
WEAK TO FAIR
-
The poem that serves as the framing device for this week's episode is "Beans beans good for your heart..."
-
Hopefully we'll finally find out why Walt has baked bean stains on his shirt in the flash forwards.
-
name a B Western.
Silverado (1985)
Hank even used a line from it on Jesse when he caught him fixin' to burn Walt's house down.
-
POINTLESS SPECULATION TIME.
2) Whom is the ricin meant for?
CURRENT THINKING UPDATE: Now I'm thinking Jesse for the ricin. To Walt there might be a certain justice in that, like "You were the one who made such a big deal about this stuff and here it had your name on it all along." But I still dunno about a motive, or how Jesse is going to escape from Todd anyway.
Oh well. As my thinking changes, I'll keep you updated!
-
I thought Walt left Albequerque at the end of the episode.
The next episode is called "Granite State," which is New Hampshire.
The finale is called "Felina," which is Italian for cat-like (e.g., lands on one's feet?)
I read somewhere that its
Fe
Li
Na
element style
-
Hey, BirdGuy.
-
(http://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1236900_10153302184610601_2064807282_n.jpg)
-
Hopefully we'll finally find out why Walt has baked bean stains on his shirt in the flash forwards.
Those are Flynn brain stains.
-
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/03b284dcbdfae5f67f7a95689f1dd7d3/tumblr_mt8zma5Cn11qh1rrwo1_500.jpg)
-
FYI, the next two Breaking Bad episodes are going to be an hour and a half each (well, if commercials are taken into account, 75~ minutes each). So we get an extra episode, perhaps to Mike's chagrin.
-
So we get an extra episode, perhaps to Mike's chagrin.
Nah, it's just more for him to enjoy hating.
-
So we get an extra episode, perhaps to Mike's chagrin.
Nah, it's just more for him to enjoy hating.
Bustas gotta Bust!
-
So we get an extra episode, perhaps to Mike's chagrin.
Nah, it's just more for him to enjoy hating.
Bustas gotta Bust!
Exactly! Mike loves this show.
-
Heads up, gotta re-program your TIVO.
According to a recent tweet from writer-producer Peter Gould, the series’ final two episodes will be “extra long,” running past their standard hour length. (TV Guide has the episodes at 75 minutes.)
Read more: http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2013/09/final-two-episodes-breaking-bad-will-extra-long/#ixzz2fTHmQJZZ (http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2013/09/final-two-episodes-breaking-bad-will-extra-long/#ixzz2fTHmQJZZ)
-
Not to get too far off subject but has anybody ever visited the Mountain Xpress Movie website? Its like reverse trolling the critic will go out of his way to make snarky replies to literally every person that comments.
Sorry i thought Mike would get a kick out of that, as you were.
-
They still have to deal with the other flash-forward where we see haz-mat suit wearing people retrieving evidence, such as that mangy bear thing, from the house. As I recall there was a car with a shattered windshield and a couple of things that look like they might contain bodies as well.
When you think about it, that show has a hell of a lot of ground to cover in the next two episodes...
-
They still have to deal with the other flash-forward where we see haz-mat suit wearing people retrieving evidence, such as that mangy bear thing, from the house. As I recall there was a car with a shattered windshield and a couple of things that look like they might contain bodies as well.
When you think about it, that show has a hell of a lot of ground to cover in the next two episodes...
That was sorted in the season 2 finale.
-
Yeah, the source of the ugly toy was. I'm talking about the incident that surrounds the presence of the cops in the haz-mat suits putting various household contents into evidence bags, taking photos, things like that. Sorry for not being more clear...
-
Also, as the incident resulting in Walt leaving Grey Matter is probably going to be left dangling. But do you think, as this is a major source of Walt's anger, they will at least bring Eliot and Gretchen back for some sort of resolution? What say ye, FoT's?
-
At first, I didn't think Walt would have time to finish off Gretchen, but since reading that the last 2 episodes are going to be 75 minutes, who knows?
-
Vince Gilligan has repeatedly said that the show will end with no loose ends, so I'm assuming Grey Matter will be touched upon in the next two episodes.
-
Yeah, the source of the ugly toy was. I'm talking about the incident that surrounds the presence of the cops in the haz-mat suits putting various household contents into evidence bags, taking photos, things like that. Sorry for not being more clear...
That was all because of the plane crash dude....
not sure how you don't know this
Breaking Bad Walter White goes mad on the cop Season 3 episode 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM7CE5mTz9I#)
-
Hey I have thoughts on the recent direction of this thread but right now I'm re-watching the latest episode and I have a question: When Jesse wakes up from his torture and finds Todd entering his cell from above, he begs and pleads and says he's told everything and says something like "I told you where to find the tape, just go, go to his house and find it, nobody else knows about it." Uhhh...I must be forgetting something: What is he talking about? (He might know about the bogus "confession" video if Hank told him about it, but I can't see why Hank would have, or why Jesse would think the Nazis would give a damn about it, and I can't think of any other secret tapes the Nazis might like to know about, so--I'm stumped!)
-
Hey I have thoughts on the recent direction of this thread but right now I'm re-watching the latest episode and I have a question: When Jesse wakes up from his torture and finds Todd entering his cell from above, he begs and pleads and says he's told everything and says something like "I told you where to find the tape, just go, go to his house and find it, nobody else knows about it." Uhhh...I must be forgetting something: What is he talking about? (He might know about the bogus "confession" video if Hank told him about it, but I can't see why Hank would have, or why Jesse would think the Nazis would give a damn about it, and I can't think of any other secret tapes the Nazis might like to know about, so--I'm stumped!)
the taped confession Hank made Jesse do right after he stopped him from burning down Walt's house it's where we see Hanks's brought Gomie in. Jesse takes a break to use the bathroom and Gomie says what if its a setup and Hanks says if it is and Jesse gets killed at least we'll have it on tape.
-
I'm guessing the Nazis will end up killing one or more of Walt's family members in their attempt to retrieve the tape, and this is what brings Walt back to Albuquerque. I'm probably wrong, though.
-
Excellent monkey-bar work by Jesse ... all for naught :(
-
I'm guessing the Nazis will end up killing one or more of Walt's family members in their attempt to retrieve the tape, and this is what brings Walt back to Albuquerque. I'm probably wrong, though.
Wow you called it, I didn't see that one coming back. It makes sense though Walt again finds himself being cheated (in his mind) of getting credit for innovating a product and a successful business. His stubborn pride is what got him into this mess and is all he has left.
-
I'm guessing the Nazis will end up killing one or more of Walt's family members in their attempt to retrieve the tape, and this is what brings Walt back to Albuquerque. I'm probably wrong, though.
Wow you called it, I didn't see that one coming back. It makes sense though Walt again finds himself being cheated (in his mind) of getting credit for innovating a product and a successful business. His stubborn pride is what got him into this mess and is all he has left.
That, ten million dollars, and cool new friend Robert Forster
-
Here's my official prediction for next week's finale: Jesse kills the Nazis. Walt shows up a minute too late and congratulates him on his handiwork. Lydia arrives unexpectedly and practically has an orgasm over the thought of making a deal with Heisenberg himself. Walt strips down to his undies as he readies himself for a cook. To celebrate their reunion, Walt offers Jesse the ricin-laced cigarette as a gag. But even Walt can't contain himself. He starts laughing maniacally before Jesse can grab the cigarette. Fade to black, but the laughter continues for 2 more minutes (while millions of viewers wonder whether their cable picture has gone out).
-
He starts laughing maniacally before Jesse can grab the cigarette. Fade to black, but the laughter continues for 2 more minutes (while millions of viewers wonder whether their cable picture has gone out).
Flipper - Ha Ha Ha (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJCKwqyR7KY#)
-
Anyone else hoping the Saul Goodman spinoff is about him managing that Cinnabon in Omaha?
-
Well, that last episode had one of the most frightening, soul-chilling moments of the entire series. By which I of course mean the appearance by Charlie Rose.
-
Anyone else hoping the Saul Goodman spinoff is about him managing that Cinnabon in Omaha?
That would be funny. But I think they're going with a "prequel" concept. I think it was on NPRs Fresh Air where Odenkirk said his understanding of the character is that Saul is a lawyer who never actually has to appear in court.
If it's a prequel, than maybe Mike the Fixer can be brought in to assist with wacky hijinx.
-
... or maybe the Cinnabun back office could be use as a narrative flash-forward, where the disgraced, relocated Saul talks about his glory days before he met Walter White.
I could actually see Cinnabun using this as a product placement opportunity, even though it represents pathetic failure. Product placers don't necessarily care about the nuances. Cinnabun would be to Saul Goodman as the Pontiac Aztec was to Walt.
-
Given Walt "Heisenberg" White is now a household name, how can the super cautious, squirrelly (no offense, Gary) Lydia still go ahead with Madrigal distributing the Blue to Eastern Europe? "Rumors of it popping up as far as Eastern Europe" paraphrasing Charlie Rose. I guess she's that greedy, duh. "What's with all the greed?" - Uncle Jack.
So Skyler's gotta give them something...how about a description of the bug-eyed lady in the rented car who Walt described as "former associate"?*
How fortuitous for the plot that the hermit Walt's one window of opportunity to watch some decent cable television just happens to have his former Grey Matter partners on- the source of his true motive?
I assume Saul Goodman has left the Breaking Bad universe on his way to managing a Cinnabon in Nebraska. Went out like a champ, compared to what awaits Jesse or Walt.
*reminded that Todd put the kibosh on that when he threatened to harm Holly if Skyler cooperated with the DEA.
-
Well, that last episode had one of the most frightening, soul-chilling moments of the entire series. By which I of course mean the appearance by Charlie Rose.
I haven't seen the episode, but unless Charlie Rose did all the talking, it wasn't realistic.
-
Everybody's getting in on the act:
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/breaking-bad-the-gray-matter-of-charity/?_r=0 (http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/breaking-bad-the-gray-matter-of-charity/?_r=0)
-
No, I know, DaveB. Just fantasizing.
Incidentally, I did learn two things recently that I think it would be OK to share: (1) the writers are kind of embarrassed about the ricin/flower thing. They had really convinced themselves that nobody would notice or care and were blindsided by the fan reaction. (2) Hank did #2 in the White master bedroom because they never built any other bathrooms on that particular set.
-
They had really convinced themselves that nobody would notice or care
How do you mean? Like, fans wouldn't care about how convoluted it seemed?
-
Well, that last episode had one of the most frightening, soul-chilling moments of the entire series. By which I of course mean the appearance by Charlie Rose.
I haven't seen the episode, but unless Charlie Rose did all the talking, it wasn't realistic.
Well, his interviewees did get a chance to respond, but let's put it this way: The extra minutes added to this episode were there so Rose could finish his question.
-
I thought it was a poor decision for Vince Gilligan to have Walt watching a Jay Leno monologue: "Boy this crazy schoolteacher on the lam is something huh? You hear 'bout this guy? Started a drug empire to pay his medical bills...boy this Obamacare isn't all that's....[fretless bass note 'bbmmMMMMmmm', smattering perfunctory applause]"
-
They had really convinced themselves that nobody would notice or care
How do you mean? Like, fans wouldn't care about how convoluted it seemed?
More or less. Like, they came up with it knowing it was full of holes and decided to forge ahead anyway, hoping no one would call them on it. Then everyone called them on it.
It happens a lot in writers' rooms, which is why you get so many scenes of lawyers yelling "objection" or people with magical search engines even though stuff like that never happens in real life (to the BB room's credit, they largely stay away from TV cliches like those).
-
They're probably not sweating it too much. The show still has a 99 rating on MetaCritic.
I hope Vince Gilligan doesn't pull a David Chase and more or less retire. I hope he continues to do TV. I want more Breaking Bad-quality television.
-
If Jesse just wouldn't have been so paranoid he could have been chillin with Robert Forester.
-
I thought it was a poor decision for Vince Gilligan to have Walt watching a Jay Leno monologue: "Boy this crazy schoolteacher on the lam is something huh? You hear 'bout this guy? Started a drug empire to pay his medical bills...boy this Obamacare isn't all that's....[fretless bass note 'bbmmMMMMmmm', smattering perfunctory applause]"
"Did you see what President Parker said about this thing?"
-
If Jesse just wouldn't have been so paranoid he could have been chillin with Robert Forester.
"Chillin with Robert Forester" - Another great spin-off idea.
-
They had really convinced themselves that nobody would notice or care
How do you mean? Like, fans wouldn't care about how convoluted it seemed?
More or less. Like, they came up with it knowing it was full of holes and decided to forge ahead anyway, hoping no one would call them on it. Then everyone called them on it.
I knew it! Validation!
No complaints about how things are going now after the last two episodes.
Anyone else hoping the Saul Goodman spinoff is about him managing that Cinnabon in Omaha?
I'm holding out for it to be called "Steaks Is High", with Saul trying to become the newest #1 salesman in the cutthroat, competitive environment that is Omaha Steaks.
-
Mike should love this.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/09/26/breaking_bad_accuracy_the_show_s_biggest_errors_and_mistakes_from_blue_meth.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/09/26/breaking_bad_accuracy_the_show_s_biggest_errors_and_mistakes_from_blue_meth.html)
-
Huell Waits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP_4z4IoYHs#)
-
(http://i.imgur.com/Lvdmb78.gif)
-
(http://i.imgur.com/Lvdmb78.gif)
One thing ive noticed this season is that his wrinkles have really creeped me out.
-
It's called neck-twerking. Get used to it.
-
I thought it was the ripple effect. They all cleaned up nicely for that Emmy show!
-
Mike should love this.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/09/26/breaking_bad_accuracy_the_show_s_biggest_errors_and_mistakes_from_blue_meth.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/09/26/breaking_bad_accuracy_the_show_s_biggest_errors_and_mistakes_from_blue_meth.html)
Yes, that really gets to the heart of why the show sucks out loud. But I'm having a hard time reconciling #9, "Meth does not make you hallucinate," with the dude in Methland who saw heads hanging from the trees outside his window. Either somebody's wrong or there really were heads out there.
-
Dumb, right?
-
Dumb, right?
Badfinger - Baby Blue (1972) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C53QAuOoSgc#)
(http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/09/30/13093012583340453.jpg)
(http://nsa33.casimages.com/img/2013/09/30/130930125930844257.jpg)
(http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/09/30/130930010002562188.jpg)
(http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/09/30/130930010112320960.jpg)
(http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/09/30/130930010150547770.jpg)
(http://nsa33.casimages.com/img/2013/09/30/130930010248108926.jpg)
(http://nsa33.casimages.com/img/2013/09/30/130930010344454878.jpg)
(http://nsa33.casimages.com/img/2013/09/30/130930010415144519.jpg)
(http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/09/30/130930010503898513.jpg)
(http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/09/30/130930010528443702.jpg)
-
Who's going to rescue Jesse? His only true friends, Skinny Pete and Badger? Or will Jesse blow up the meth lab with Todd in it?
Maybe Walt will go for one last chance at redemption by rescuing Jesse and decimating Uncle Jack's motley crew. I don't think such a scenario is entirely implausible. He has to have gone back to Albuquerque for a reason.
I am so glad Jesse was freed !
-
I thought it was great--even though I actually had a few cavils, which is more than I usually have had with any particular episode. Yes, there were some plausibility issues with Walt's methods of dealing with Lydia and the Nazis. That didn't bother me; as with the Sergio Leone films which Vince G. has consistently cited as inspiration, there has always been a sizable bit of fantasy and wishful thinking in the show's treatment of violence and successful stratagems. And those Nazi ratfuckers sure looked good with bullets tearing through their organs.
I had more trouble plausibility-wise with Skyler showing as much patience with Walt as she did, and I cringed when she actually almost broke into a smile (the entire series' second-worst moment, after her singing "Happy Birthday, Mr. President" to Ted). And whatever the virtues of Badfinger or "Baby Blue," I just thought that was a plain bad choice that didn't work at all, the first time I can remember thinking that about one of their musical selections.
I liked it though. I liked that it turned out Walt returned to ABQ with more than just bloody mayhem in mind. I liked that he seemed to have arrived at some self-knowledge--nothing hokey like "redemption," just some honesty with himself. I liked that he ended up rescuing Jesse after all--I had thought beforehand that he wouldn't be able to do that without the show going all soft on us, given the hatred he's already shown for Jesse. But it seemed of a piece with the self-knowledge, a recognition that in the end Jesse had been more sinned against--by him, Walt--than sinning.
Good show. Take it away, Saul.
-
And whatever the virtues of Badfinger or "Baby Blue," I just thought that was a plain bad choice that didn't work at all, the first time I can remember thinking that about one of their musical selections.
I was so stoked when Baby Blue came on. The first line of the song is "I guess I got what I deserved" and plays as Walt lovingly stares at the chemistry equipment. It was perfect!
-
Lyrically, maybe it was OK. Musically it took me way out of the story. I didn't like it.
-
And whatever the virtues of Badfinger or "Baby Blue," I just thought that was a plain bad choice that didn't work at all, the first time I can remember thinking that about one of their musical selections.
I was so stoked when Baby Blue came on. The first line of the song is "I guess I got what I deserved" and plays as Walt lovingly stares at the chemistry equipment. It was perfect!
Me too. I thought it was an inspired choice. What an excellent way to end an excellent show.
-
Somebody remind me, why did Walt want to kill Lydia?
-
Skylar told Walt that Lydia was mentioned when Todd and the ski-masked goons had threatened the lives of Walt's children in their own home. Afterward, Todd had told Lydia not to worry about Skylar, she seemed like a nice lady looking out for her kids.
-
Walt would have already poisoned Lydia before he finds out about the Lydia-directed ski mask home invasion, right? I don't have a problem with him killing Lydia, his final loose end, but him being so gleeful about it was more based on how the viewers would have felt about her than Walt did. (I thought having her mention the Stevia twice in the episode before giving the ricin POV shot was a little hand-holding, especially if we have to go with Walt's Magic Poison Powers to figure out how he made a fake packet in that time, but we're well past that now.)
Back at the end of Season 4, I rambled too much about having to make the leap/mental shift to accept and enjoy the show for what it was (a wonderfully fun, clever and probably peerless crime show) the minute Gus doesn't go to the rigged car in the parking lot. I'm glad I did, because it put me in the right frame of mind to not be bothered by the machine gun trap, which was silly but perfectly in tone for a show that started with the wacky shot of Cranston in his underwear in the desert. I've been kind of fascinated by critical response to the final episode, because I think it exposes that a lot of smart, talented writers tied themselves in knots trying to make profound statements about the show that they were creating on their own and in tandem with each other, and now had to come to terms with balancing that against what the shows strengths and intentions really were.
A weird, pompous groupthink built up in the last year with a lot of critics who were determined to sell that the show was making a statement about violence and how we react to it and other grand, morality-based concepts like that, going so far as to start interpreting scenes as "this is Vince Gilligan talking to the viewers!" But I think maybe the last time the show was ever about something like that was Jesse being forced into killing Gale. Between Season 3 and 4, the writers understandably fell in love with Giancarlo Esposito and turned Gus into Doctor Doom and bumped Walt up accordingly. And when they had to let Gus go, they had Mike as The Batman of New Mexico. It was a show that was always - though especially in the last few seasons - in love with neat stuff happening. I mean, it opened a season with twin superkillers walking away from an explosion unfazed in a completely non-ironic way.
The writers and the actors (especially Cranston, who was every bit as good as he was heralded to be) were always talented enough to add nuance, but this was a show built on atmosphere and style and performances and moments. Seeing people claim it was "known for its air-tight plotting" and making broad statements about the sweeping moral narrative was a sign that pop crit analysis has may have turned in on itself a bit too much and there are a lot of people - some very sharp and talented, some less so - who are stuck in a critical arms race, and maybe a reminder that a key to fully enjoying a piece of art sometimes means you not only have to divorce yourself from the artist, but also from the audience, which now includes both pro and amatuer TV recappers.
I thought the last season was terrific in terms of not holding back and committing to what was great about the show, and I think its most important legacy is taking the kind of "holy shit!"-moment thriller that 24 was in its prime (and as a reminder, 24 was about a hundred times goofier and less consistent and nowhere near as fully realized as Breaking Bad), filling it with better-equipped actors across the board and, most importantly, finally adding on a commitment to visuals, style and atmosphere, the key thing that has been least developed during TV's current peak run. The bar has been raised significantly in how to present a quality show and everybody else is going to have a hellf of time trying to live up to making something that registers in such an indelible way from here on out.
-
^^Great post.
-
Good ending to a great literary/pulpy show. A bit too sentimental, I don't think I'll remember this episode in 5 years the way I still think about the Sopranos' finale. Glad to see a show can end itself going out on top.
Had Walt, laying on that lab floor, suddenly woke up and found himself in bed with Jane Kascmarek ("Lois, I had the weirdest dream. I was...wait, what's that smell, burning....Reese!"), no one would be more pleased than I.
-
I was just reading about how the show stepped up its visuals during its run:
http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/the-cinematography-of-breaking-bad-season-5-part-2 (http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/the-cinematography-of-breaking-bad-season-5-part-2)
I think having the show peak two episodes before the finale is not a bad way to do things.
-
I was just reading about how the show stepped up its visuals during its run:
http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/the-cinematography-of-breaking-bad-season-5-part-2 (http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/the-cinematography-of-breaking-bad-season-5-part-2)
I think having the show peak two episodes before the finale is not a bad way to do things.
Thanks for this. That is some of the worst writing I've read in a long time.
-
I've been kind of fascinated by critical response to the final episode, because I think it exposes that a lot of smart, talented writers tied themselves in knots trying to make profound statements about the show that they were creating on their own and in tandem with each other, and now had to come to terms with balancing that against what the shows strengths and intentions really were.
A weird, pompous groupthink built up in the last year with a lot of critics who were determined to sell that the show was making a statement about violence and how we react to it and other grand, morality-based concepts like that, going so far as to start interpreting scenes as "this is Vince Gilligan talking to the viewers!"
...and there are a lot of people - some very sharp and talented, some less so - who are stuck in a critical arms race, and maybe a reminder that a key to fully enjoying a piece of art sometimes means you not only have to divorce yourself from the artist, but also from the audience, which now includes both pro and amatuer TV recappers.
Wes, a great post. Thanks!
The outright dumbest thing I've read on the Finale was from Todd Van Der Werff, the seemingly totalitarian AV Club TVeditor, who wrote on the finale for the LA Times http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-breaking-bad-recap-20130929,0,4780572.story (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-breaking-bad-recap-20130929,0,4780572.story)
Anyway this is the bit that is so dumb to be draw dropping (bold is mine)
The question is whether you bought for an instant that Walter “deserved” that ending. “Deserved” is a funny word, because it reads the viewer’s expectations into the work of art, when it’s much more important to try and suss out just what Vince Gilligan and his writers were up to, then determine how well they stuck to their guns. (From my point of view, very well.)
No it fucking isn't Todd. It's more important to enjoy the "culture" you choose to watch/hear/read etc and then draw your own conclusions and that's about it.
-
Completely agree with Wes that the show was never preoccupied with plot and was actually at its worst when it tried (the train robbery episode, which spent an inordinate amount of time on the logistics of the caper, for example). And while we're on the same page regarding the critical reception (Vulture's shoe-horning it into the Christmas Carol narrative being the worst I've seen), I had more trouble absolving the finale's ridiculous contrivances (an off-the-shelf garage door opener withstanding a machine gun's recoil, the machine gun killing all but the two bad guys who needed personal revenge from Walt and Jesse, Gretchen and Elliott's shitty assistant and flimsy home security, and on and on) than I did with the rest of the series because Walt's ideas, luck, and money should have lost their effectiveness when Hank passed on. The second-to-last episode seemed to tell us that and forced Walt to face those limitations, but then in the finale the car keys fall to him like manna, he gives the car window a Gorch-like bop to make the snow fall cleanly away, and everything works out perfectly.
-
Not to defend Van Der Werff, CSW, but as somebody who's been on the receiving end of critics smart and stupid, I'd argue that he's trying to be a generous and effective critic (as opposed to a fan or viewer, for whom I agree with you, there is no such thing as an illegitimate response -- but critic is a very specific job description). For example: I write a play that isn't kitchen-sink realism, and it gets ripped apart for not being kitchen-sink realism, that critic isn't very good. S/he can say s/he hates anything that isn't kitchen sink realism, and that's fine. But to treat a specific choice as a failure (as if I'd attempted kitchen-sink realism and failed) is sloppy criticism. This is why Michiko Kakutani is a terrible book reviewer, because instead of just admitting she doesn't like Thomas Pynchon, she rails against him for not being Saul Bellow, as if the two had anything at all in common.
And yes, great post, Wes. I usually like Emily Nussbaum, but her description of the phone call in Ozymandias bordered on the-TV-is-talking-to-me delusional.
-
I was just reading about how the show stepped up its visuals during its run:
http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/the-cinematography-of-breaking-bad-season-5-part-2 (http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/the-cinematography-of-breaking-bad-season-5-part-2)
I think having the show peak two episodes before the finale is not a bad way to do things.
Thanks for this. That is some of the worst writing I've read in a long time.
Plenty more here!
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/author/sek/ (http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/author/sek/)
-
Todd died and Badfinger got a big bump-up in the public consciousness. I'm happy, dudes. That's all I need.
-
Todd died and Badfinger got a big bump-up in the public consciousness. I'm happy, dudes. That's all I need.
The blatant ripoff from No Country for Old Men didn't detract from your enjoyment of Todd's death?
-
Todd died and Badfinger got a big bump-up in the public consciousness. I'm happy, dudes. That's all I need.
The blatant ripoff from No Country for Old Men didn't detract from your enjoyment of Todd's death?
I forget which part you're talking about, but mainly I'm just into the fact that he died. Method of dispatch is secondary.
-
Todd died and Badfinger got a big bump-up in the public consciousness. I'm happy, dudes. That's all I need.
The blatant ripoff from No Country for Old Men didn't detract from your enjoyment of Todd's death?
It didn't detract from mine, but that's likely as I've never seen No Country for Old Men
Not to defend Van Der Werff, CSW, but as somebody who's been on the receiving end of critics smart and stupid, I'd argue that he's trying to be a generous and effective critic (as opposed to a fan or viewer, for whom I agree with you, there is no such thing as an illegitimate response -- but critic is a very specific job description). For example: I write a play that isn't kitchen-sink realism, and it gets ripped apart for not being kitchen-sink realism, that critic isn't very good. S/he can say s/he hates anything that isn't kitchen sink realism, and that's fine. But to treat a specific choice as a failure (as if I'd attempted kitchen-sink realism and failed) is sloppy criticism. This is why Michiko Kakutani is a terrible book reviewer, because instead of just admitting she doesn't like Thomas Pynchon, she rails against him for not being Saul Bellow, as if the two had anything at all in common.
You' ve lost me a bit there as I don't know who any of the names you're referring to are and I don't know what kitchen-sink realism is. I will put that on my own ignorance.
See, I thought criticism was supposed to be "is/was it good" and thus "you should/shouldn't watch/hear/read it". I've never really seen the need for a critic to then turn it around into "oh, the creator meant this" etc. Only the creator can tell you that. No point trying to mind read them.
Then again Van Der Werff is the guy that said the show you (S2G) work on is really about the inner workings of a TV Writer's Room. Maybe you can chip in on that?
And he's also the guy that defended repeatedly Homeland Season 2, which really is the dumbest thing to have been on TV and considered "premium" in a long old while. I'd really like to know what Mike thought of that...
-
Aside from interpretation/contextualization, criticism's goal should be to judge a work by whether or not it successfully achieves what the work sets out to do but not what the critic wants the work to be or do. The critic may have different taste or values than the work (or the work's creators) but to evaluate a work based on that would be a personal essay (good/not good) and not criticism (success/failure). If a play takes place in a reality where children between ages 6 and 7 can fly, it's an invalid criticism to fault the play for being unrealistic.
You' ve lost me a bit there as I don't know who any of the names you're referring to are . . .
They're all well-respected pornographers. 'Sloppy criticism' is a euphemism for ████████████████████.
-
Badfinger got a big bump-up in the public consciousness.
See, for those who are saying that song worked well in that place, I suspect this is really what it's about.
-
And he's also the guy that defended repeatedly Homeland Season 2, which really is the dumbest thing to have been on TV and considered "premium" in a long old while. I'd really like to know what Mike thought of that...
I watched the first two seasons of Homeland. I never bought the original premise, so I won't be continuing.
-
Todd died and Badfinger got a big bump-up in the public consciousness. I'm happy, dudes. That's all I need.
Dont forget, and Jesse got away.
-
Josh put it better than me. But yes, if a critic's job were simply to give a thumbs up/down, they would be utterly unnecessary -- we have Amazon, Goodreads, Yelp, and a zillion other venues for that. A good critic (like Pauline Kael, e.g.) can illustrate or illuminate the work in a way beyond just telling me whether I should spend my time/money on something. There are critics I never agree with (like James Wood) whom I respect because of their degree of engagement and thoughtfulness, and others (like Anthony Lane) that I really enjoy reading because they're funny or good writers, but I don't think they're good critics. At this point Lane reviewing a Star Wars or Marvel movie is just a stunt because we already know he's going to make fun of it.
Van Der Werff is partially right about MM, but it's not like anyone set out to do that. Most shows use the dynamics of writers' rooms in their storylines. There are a ton of writers' room dynamics in Breaking Bad, for example, especially the Walt/Gus/Jesse triangle. And Walt is exactly like any number of embittered TV writers out there. In the case of MM, it just so happens that the advertising and television industries are a lot alike (as MM itself often shows).
-
There are critics I never agree with (like James Wood) whom I respect because of their degree of engagement and thoughtfulness, and others (like Anthony Lane) that I really enjoy reading because they're funny or good writers, but I don't think they're good critics. At this point Lane reviewing a Star Wars or Marvel movie is just a stunt because we already know he's going to make fun of it.
You never agree with James Wood? How can that be? A lot of the writers he likes are top notch (Chekhov, Woolf, Hamsun, Bellow, etc.). I don't always agree either, but you can usually count on him making a strong case for his point of view. And I love Lane's take downs of Hollywood blockbusters. Someone in the culture has to do it, why not someone who does it with such relish and gusto?
How 'bout Daniel Mendelsohn? Do you like him? He's the critic who took a lot of flak for having the guts to criticize Mad Men. He's also repulsed by Quentin Tarantino which was one of the reasons I find him so endearing.
-
What don't you like about Tarantino Mike?
-
"Tarantino Mike" made me think of Mike talking to a long-haired John Hodgman about how 4 Loko is called something different in Europe.
-
What don't you like about Tarantino Mike?
His work is derivative and immature.
-
The immaturity is pretty much the only good thing about Tarantino
-
Mike can you check out the Mountain Xpress movies page? My dream is to see you battle out over movie opinions with Ken Hanke, sad i know.
http://www.mountainx.com/movies/ (http://www.mountainx.com/movies/)
-
http://i.imgur.com/fgKux4E.jpg?1 (http://i.imgur.com/fgKux4E.jpg?1)
-
There are critics I never agree with (like James Wood) whom I respect because of their degree of engagement and thoughtfulness, and others (like Anthony Lane) that I really enjoy reading because they're funny or good writers, but I don't think they're good critics. At this point Lane reviewing a Star Wars or Marvel movie is just a stunt because we already know he's going to make fun of it.
You never agree with James Wood? How can that be? A lot of the writers he likes are top notch (Chekhov, Woolf, Hamsun, Bellow, etc.). I don't always agree either, but you can usually count on him making a strong case for his point of view. And I love Lane's take downs of Hollywood blockbusters. Someone in the culture has to do it, why not someone who does it with such relish and gusto?
How 'bout Daniel Mendelsohn? Do you like him? He's the critic who took a lot of flak for having the guts to criticize Mad Men. He's also repulsed by Quentin Tarantino which was one of the reasons I find him so endearing.
I was imprecise -- I don't agree with Wood about a lot of contemporary authors. I also don't get Bellow, incidentally, but to be fair I've only ever read Herzog and maybe I need to reread it. And I stand by my assessment of Lane -- he's a funny writer, boring critic.
The only Mendelsohn I know is his MM critique. I actually agreed with some of it (don't remember what offhand) but found a lot of it standard backlash contrarianism, which I think is just as dull as the kind of drooling consensus around the show. But I can't get into a detailed discussion on this subject, for obvious reasons.
-
Give The Adventures of Augie March a shot. It's amazing. Herzog was tough for me at first. I had a couple of false starts before I could get into it, but when I did I really enjoyed it. Humboldt's Gift is the other masterpiece.
-
What don't you like about Tarantino Mike?
His work is derivative and immature.
Does it not matter to you he's doing that on purpose?
-
What don't you like about Tarantino Mike?
His work is derivative and immature.
Does it not matter to you he's doing that on purpose?
I know he's doing it on purpose. He has to ape other directors because he has no original ideas. And he has no original ideas because he never became a grown up.
-
And whatever the virtues of Badfinger or "Baby Blue," I just thought that was a plain bad choice that didn't work at all, the first time I can remember thinking that about one of their musical selections.
I was so stoked when Baby Blue came on. The first line of the song is "I guess I got what I deserved" and plays as Walt lovingly stares at the chemistry equipment. It was perfect!
I agree, but I am a sumb Southern rube, so you might need more backup.
-
Badfinger got a big bump-up in the public consciousness.
See, for those who are saying that song worked well in that place, I suspect this is really what it's about.
MIND READER AMONG US QUIT THINKING FOR GOD'S SAKE
-
Badfinger got a big bump-up in the public consciousness.
See, for those who are saying that song worked well in that place, I suspect this is really what it's about.
MIND READER AMONG US QUIT THINKING FOR GOD'S SAKE
I tried to give this a thumbs up. I spend too much time on Facebook.
-
Give The Adventures of Augie March a shot. It's amazing. Herzog was tough for me at first. I had a couple of false starts before I could get into it, but when I did I really enjoyed it. Humboldt's Gift is the other masterpiece.
I will! I have an unread copy lying around somewhere.
-
(http://media.tumblr.com/9cbcdb4746acdde43850792ae28c05ea/tumblr_inline_mugqerjMLC1qzrz5n.gif)
-
(http://media.tumblr.com/9cbcdb4746acdde43850792ae28c05ea/tumblr_inline_mugqerjMLC1qzrz5n.gif)
fantastic. i would like to make this one of those animated wallpapers on my phone. i'm not someone who likes those kind of things, but this has converted me.
-
Here's a little read designed to give Mike apoplexy:
...I suspect on some level this is part of the point of the The Realism Canard. That art in its size and complexity is too much to handle sometimes, and too troubling. That even though we say fiction's job is to take us out of ourselves, we don't really want to be pushed. So we must take it down a peg, to a point where it is beneath us and thus can be put in its place. And the easiest way to do this is to cross check it against "real life" and find it lacking.
Take this piece about Breaking Bad in The New Inquiry. It has some interesting points to make about the show's racial politics, but before it can get there it, it must shrink the show to manageable size by trying to come up with ways that its depiction of the drug trade isn't "realistic," landing on the show's overemphasis on the purity of Walter's meth. Set aside that the author's critique of the show's purity emphasis on realism grounds is wrong (purity matters because Walt is a wholesaler and the purer his product is the more that it can be stepped on by the people he sells it to), and set aside that the purity matters for character reasons (no one has ever been able to do what Walt figures out). The accuracy question with regard to Breaking Bad is a complete sideshow. Breaking Bad is not a work of realism. Its aesthetic and language is highly stylized, and its plotting is all clockwork determinism, as anyone who has watched the second season can attest. It's not trying to exist in our world. It's trying to exist in its world. You might as well criticize it for having a sky that's yellower than ours.
http://parabasis.typepad.com/blog/2013/10/the-realism-canard.html (http://parabasis.typepad.com/blog/2013/10/the-realism-canard.html)
-
What is that gif supposed to be?
-
What is that gif supposed to be?
I would also like to know. I see the heads, but who are they? Is this from the show? You know how to make me feel dummm
-
Spoiler Alert! Do not read if you haven't seen the finale!:
The answer to that question is kind of a spoiler, if you haven't seen the finale.
-
I have seen the finale, but still am not sure what exactly is happening in that gif.
As promised earlier in the thread, here is the complete interview of Vince Gilligan by Charlie Brooker at this year's Edinburgh Television Festival. I haven't watched yet, but as a superfan of both guys, I'm very excited about it:
GEITF 2013 - Breaking Bad: The Network & GEITF Joint Session Masterclass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXVJ8eRIRrc#)
-
It is from the final episode. If you have seen the episode and do not know the moment that it is from, you missed it. Don't know what to say.
That gif doesn't really spoil anything. If it did, I wouldn't have posted it.
-
Well, if you haven't seen the finale--and I assumed anyone who didn't recognize the image hadn't--it is kind of a spoiler to know that (Spoiler Alert!) those are dying Nazis who got shot in their Nazi asses.
-
It is from the final episode. If you have seen the episode and do not know the moment that it is from, you missed it. Don't know what to say.
That gif doesn't really spoil anything. If it did, I wouldn't have posted it.
Guess i missed it. Is it supposed to be Todd hiding or Breaking Bad's Killer Bob?
-
Some people don't know what to make of the finale because it was too satisfying and neat.
This whole time we've been cheering for this guy but he's a drug dealer, and this whole time we've been cheering for this work of art but it's a TV show.