FOT Forum
FOT Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: nec13 on April 06, 2009, 08:53:55 PM
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I think there are a few FOT's that are baseball fans, as evidenced by the fantasy baseball thread. So I thought that I would create this thread as a place where we can post our thoughts about the current baseball season. This thread will be active throughout the season, I hope. With that, here's what I found interesting today.
-It was nice to see the Mets bullpen actually hold a lead for a change.
-C.C. Sabathia was shelled today in his debut for the Yankees. His line: 4.1 IP, 8 H, 5 BB, 6 ER
-Cliff Lee, the reigning AL Cy Young winner, didn't pitch so well either giving up 10 hits and 7 earned runs in five innings of work.
-There were two games that were snowed out.
Anyone else have any baseball-related thoughts?
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-C.C. Sabathia was shelled today in his debut for the Yankees. His line: 4.1 IP, 8 H, 5 BB, 6 ER
I enjoyed seeing that line.
Also, the Cubs won but I am determined not to be too optimistic this year.
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Although, it's too early to judge a player's entire season based on one game, I contend that the C.C. Sabathia signing was not a very good one for the Yankees. He seems like one of those guys that will crack under the pressure of playing in New York ala Jeff Weaver or Randy Johnson. Plus, that rotund frame he possesses is not conducive to long term success. They'll run him out of New York by year 3 of his contract.
I don't know why you wouldn't be excited about the Cubs. They're shaping up to be the best team in the National League.
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It's better to wait to judge a player's entire season on one game until after the All-Star break.
I predict that he'll have a career year, by which I mean that this year will officially count as part of his career.
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I don't know why you wouldn't be excited about the Cubs. They're shaping up to be the best team in the National League.
This was also the case last year.
They were also pretty good the year before.
I will be sucked back in to have my heart broken by the end of the week, if not sooner.
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Yeah well, better to make the postseason two years in a row than to choke in the most excruciating fashion possible two years in a row.
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CC got off to a terrible start last year as well. He'll be fine. I hate the Yankees but I think they have a really good shot to win it all this year.
Any Nats fans in here? I don't get why they aren't giving Elijah Dukes the at bats to prove himself. They aren't going to compete, so I don't get why they give the at bats to Kearns rather than a guy who could really break out this year even if he is one at bat away from a mental breakdown.
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Dukes has enormous talent, but he's also an enormous headcase. I don't really get what Jim Bowden was trying to do with the Nationals. It seems like he was obsessed with just acquiring toolsy outfielders. Although, I do like Lastings Milledge and some of the position prospects they have in their system.
BTW Gilly, do you think Strasburg gets called up by September?
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Absolutely.
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Redbirds will be scrapping their way to the middle with a piecemeal team, a completely unproven bullpen that one wouldn't think could be worse than last years until today, and a number of impact players with health question marks.
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-C.C. Sabathia was shelled today in his debut for the Yankees. His line: 4.1 IP, 8 H, 5 BB, 6 ER
I enjoyed seeing that line.
Also, the Cubs won but I am determined not to be too optimistic this year.
I was happy to see Gregg in action but I hate that no matter who's closing you always half-expect him to give up a run or two. Just get out there and seal the deal. Should of been a 4-1 game.
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Yeah well, better to make the postseason two years in a row than to choke in the most excruciating fashion possible two years in a row.
True, but getting swept in consecutive seasons (when you are heavily favored) is no walk in the park either.
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Ugh, why do the Mariners always forget that they suck when they play the Twins?
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Absolutely.
I thought you guys liked cricket.
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Redbirds will be scrapping their way to the middle with a piecemeal team, a completely unproven bullpen that one wouldn't think could be worse than last years until today, and a number of impact players with health question marks.
That must have been painful to watch. The look on Tony LaRussa's face when Jack Wilson hit that bases clearing double into the gap was priceless. The Cards bullpen reminds me of the Mets bullpen last year. They should have signed Brian Fuentes.
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Redbirds will be scrapping their way to the middle with a piecemeal team, a completely unproven bullpen that one wouldn't think could be worse than last years until today, and a number of impact players with health question marks.
That must have been painful to watch. The look on Tony LaRussa's face when Jack Wilson hit that bases clearing double into the gap was priceless. The Cards bullpen reminds me of the Mets bullpen last year. They should have signed Brian Fuentes.
I tuned in to gameday on mlb.tv hoping to "watch" the bullpen get its first close. I saw them catch up then got distracted then turned back and it was a bloodbath. It'll get better. Then worse. etc.
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They thought Motte was going to be their closer because he has a "closer mentality". They forgot that he only has one pitch and he's not Mariano Rivera. They'll be ok again once they call Chris Perez up.
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Motte might be better suited to be a setup man. Perez is probably their long term answer at closer.
As an aside, I'm really interested to see how Colby Rasmus does this year. He could be as good as Jay Bruce.
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Yeah, but I don't get what they are doing with him. If he isn't going to play everyday in the bigs he should be playing everyday in the minors. I don't get why three different managers aren't keeping their top prospects on the bench (Dukes, Rasmus and Upton).
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Because players like Dukes, Rasmus, and Upton have already dominated every level of the minor leagues and have nothing left to prove. I imagine that Dukes and Rasmus will probably be starting everyday fairly soon. Austin Kearns is a holdover from the Jim Bowden era and is washed up. I would guess that Rasmus will eventually replace one of Ankiel, Duncan, or Ludwick. The Cards could probably trade one of their outfielders to get more starting pitching or bullpen help.
Plus for whatever reason, I think managers have a strong tendency to favor veterans over young players.
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I hear you on Dukes and Upton but Rasmus would benefit more from playing everyday instead of watching major leaguers. I think the Nats are probably trying to showcase Kearns to trade him but I don't know how much that really works especially with veteran guys who have a track record. Managers who don't make room for talented prospects need to disappear. It sucks how many careers come to a standstill because a manager can't take a .260 hitter out of the lineup to give a young guy a chance.
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Although, it's too early to judge a player's entire season based on one game, I contend that the C.C. Sabathia signing was not a very good one for the Yankees. He seems like one of those guys that will crack under the pressure of playing in New York ala Jeff Weaver or Randy Johnson. Plus, that rotund frame he possesses is not conducive to long term success. They'll run him out of New York by year 3 of his contract.
I don't know why you wouldn't be excited about the Cubs. They're shaping up to be the best team in the National League.
Cubs broke my heart last year. AND EVERY YEAR OF MY LIFE! ARRGH!
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I agree with you. However, I think managers favor the .260 hitter because they believe he will give the manager the best chance to win. As you know, young hitters tend to make more mistakes on the job than do veteran hitters. Unfortunately, I think it creates quite the conundrum for GM's. Is it better to keep an uber-prospect in the minors where they have already dominated or let that same player gain major league experience but play far less?
I don't know.
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The Marlins can mash with the best of them. 8-0 over the Nats in the 7th. It looks like it will be a long year for the Nationals.
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Bad outing for C.M. Wang tonight. 9 H and 7 ER in 3.2 innings of work.
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[GO O's!]
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I think they could surprise this year. I'm anxious to see how Matt Wieters does.
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They had better do something. Fuck the Yankees.
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What was up with all the booing of Mark Teixeira the other day? Is it because he's a Yankee or because he spurned the Orioles in the offseason?
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I think a lot of people thought he was going to be an Oriole or a National for the past year. Why they thought that I don't know. Maybe they didn't notice the Yankees glaring weak spot at 1B and all the salaries they rid themselves of.
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He's from Severna Park right? Also, I think the Nationals actually offered the most money to Teixeira. Guess he didn't have any hometown loyalty.
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He's from Severna Park right? Also, I think the Nationals actually offered the most money to Teixeira. Guess he didn't have any hometown loyalty.
Pretty hard to have hometown loyalty when the team is one of the worst in baseball.
The Orioles look like they'll have a pretty good offense, but their staff is pretty weak.
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The O's are just biding their time until Tillman, Matusz, and Arrieta are ready to move up to the majors. Of course, given the O's poor track record for developing prospects (not named Nick Markakis), they will be lucky if one of those three actually pans out.
But Markakis, Adam Jones, and Matt Wieters could be the core of a good offense in a few years.
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The O's are just biding their time until Tillman, Matusz, and Arrieta are ready to move up to the majors. Of course, given the O's poor track record for developing prospects (not named Nick Markakis), they will be lucky if one of those three actually pans out.
But Markakis, Adam Jones, and Matt Wieters could be the core of a good offense in a few years.
In recent years I just think of Baltimore as the place the Cubs send their failed prospects (Patterson, Pie, Hill + dumping Sosa).
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http://madison.decider.com/articles/talkin-baseball-why-we-hate-the-cubs,25950/
Go Brewers.
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Though I would love to see the Cub's win it all some year, just for the sake of my Chicago based and Cubbies rooting friends.
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http://madison.decider.com/articles/talkin-baseball-why-we-hate-the-cubs,25950/
Go Brewers.
I don't think that Yankee comparison is really fair. It's only recently that ownership has been willing to spend any money to improve the club, despite the fact that they are one of the most popular teams in the league and Wrigley is a huge moneymaker. He raises a fair point about a lot of Cubs fans being "dickholedouches", but from my experience that holds true for fans of any team. I've been to plenty of Brewers games where their fans are cursing in front of kids. Let's face it, there's a whole lot of fans that are just big creeps (especially when there is alcohol involved), no matter who they root for (although all of the Twins fans I've encountered were great). It reminds me a lot of Tom's Star Wars cantina trip to Yankee Stadium last year.
Though I would love to see the Cub's win it all some year, just for the sake of my Chicago based and Cubbies rooting friends.
This is what I like about Brewers fans, they're a mostly reasonable bunch. I love that the team has improved so much these last few years, because it has started to feel like a genuine rivalry. I was a little disappointed that they couldn't get CC to stay because he was a perfect fit for that team, and I hope they can hang on to Prince and Hardy. Plus, Miller is a great place to see a game.
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He's from Severna Park right? Also, I think the Nationals actually offered the most money to Teixeira. Guess he didn't have any hometown loyalty.
Pretty hard to have hometown loyalty when the team is one of the worst in baseball.
The Orioles look like they'll have a pretty good offense, but their staff is pretty weak.
Come come now. We all know the quality of baseball teams just has to do with the amount of money the team has. I mean, it's been like that for at least the last 15 years. Bring on some salary caps and I'll bet things would get a lot more interesting.
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He's from Severna Park right? Also, I think the Nationals actually offered the most money to Teixeira. Guess he didn't have any hometown loyalty.
Pretty hard to have hometown loyalty when the team is one of the worst in baseball.
The Orioles look like they'll have a pretty good offense, but their staff is pretty weak.
Come come now. We all know the quality of baseball teams just has to do with the amount of money the team has. I mean, it's been like that for at least the last 15 years. Bring on some salary caps and I'll bet things would get a lot more interesting.
It certainly appears that way but there are plenty of exceptions. The Yankees have spent lots of money the last decade and it hasn't won them any titles. The Rays last year prove it can be done. The Twins make the playoffs on a regular basis without a massive payroll. Sure, a small budget leads to teams having to trade away star players because they can't afford them (Santana, etc.), but that forces them to focus on home-grown talent. Ideally there would be a cap but I doubt it'll ever happen, the big market owners have too much to lose. I think one of the most interesting stories this season will be how much teams suffer because of this economy. A team like Detroit will really be hurting by the end of the season.
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All things being equal, more money = better team. I guarantee someone has done a study correlating payroll to regular season wins. (There's going to be too much luck in postseason success for that to mean anything imo.) And I bet there's a pretty damn strong correlation. The Yankees have been in 9 of the 10 past playoffs. They haven't won the World Series, but who cares? They've bought consistent success over 162 games, which is a much more reliable indicator of quality than how they do in the playoffs.
All things are not equal. It's easy for poor teams to be smarter than rich teams. But a rich team that was also smart would be unbeatable.
I doubt that a rich team would ever be super smart, however. I think rich teams try to make money by hiring stars that excite fans and sell tickets. Not all of these stars are worth the money from a baseball perspective, but they might make perfect sense from a financial perspective. Poorer teams have to try to make money by doing everything they can to win games.
Despite the fact that some rich teams overpay for undertalented schmos, or have incentives to pay for qualities other than ability to win games, and despite the fact the poorer teams sometimes use superior baseball smarts to outperform rich dumb teams, I still think the game would be better with some kind of payroll reform.
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Very sad news about Nick Adenhart. What a terrible loss for his family and for the Angels. He was going to be a heck of a pitcher.
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Yeah, too bad about Adenhart. I don't think he was going to turn into the ace he was hyped to be but he was going to be good.
I have mixed feelings about capping salary. For one thing, look at hockey. How many teams hover around the minimum cap level? Owners used the cap to spend less instead of using it to be competitive. The teams who have owners who do want to compete are so similar it's boring to watch. Any team can win at any given time which gives you maybe a couple good teams and a bunch of mediocre ones.
That said, I think the playing field is pretty unfair right now in baseball especially in the AL. The Yankees haven't won it all in a long time but they almost always make the playoffs. My math might be off 1 or 2 here but since 2000, 20/36 AL playoff spots have gone to NY, Boston, LA or Chicago, 11/18 ALCS teams have been one of those four, and 7/9 ALCS champions have again been one of those teams. If you count Detroit as a major market 8/9. If Detroit is a major market team, the last time (before Tampa last year) to go to the the World Series was Cleveland in '97. That's a huge problem. It's like NCAA football- fans aren't going to stay interested if their team has no shot to win it all. Owners aren't going to shell out millions of dollars hoping it pays off, and they don't have the worldwide revenue anyway that the major markets have... and revenue sharing hasn't worked because it's just turned into more spending and higher bidding. All it's really done is given guys like Gil Meche and Carlos Silva 10+ million a year contracts. Once the star free agents sign their huge contracts with the big boys the mid-small market teams get to bid on giving mediocre players outrageous contracts to try to stay at around .500 for the year. Honestly, I don't get why the Orioles and Blue Jays even try anymore. I feel bad for fans of those teams.
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I would strongly suggest expanding the playoff format in both leagues. Make it like the NFL where six teams from each league get in the playoffs. Give the teams with the two best records in each league a first round bye and let the other four teams battle it out. That would be one way to make it fair to teams like the Orioles, Blue Jays, Indians, etc.
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I wouldn't be for that. The playoffs would be way too long and resemble the NBA and NHL playoffs more than the NFL. That's just a patch and another way to ruin the legacy of the game. They just need to overhaul the financial system but obviously that's much easier said than done. The players union have legitimate concerns especially considering it does take a lot of time for the majority of players to actually get that big paycheck. I like the NBA's salary cap for the most part. Players can get big money and stay with one team if they feel like it, owners are able to stay competitive and build teams rather than buy teams, and fans get to know a team rather than having to look at a media guide every year to see who's playing for the home team this year. It's not perfect because almost every team is over the cap and it's hard for bad teams to make trades to get better but I think it's as good as it gets.
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MLB is pulling down enormous revenues right now. Of course, with the weak economy, that will change. But heretofore, attendance is the highest it has ever been and small market owners, in particular, are making money hand over fist. Do I think that baseball needs a cap? Yes I do. However, who's to say that even if there is a cap that small market owners will increase their payrolls? Because if there would be a cap, the PA would insist upon a salary floor and a fairly high one at that. That's why I don't even think small market owners want a cap. They get money from revenue sharing, and in many instances, end up pocketing it and not reinvesting it in their teams. Say what you will about the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Angels, etc., at least they reinvest a fairly sizable portion of their revenues back into improving their ballclubs so that they can sustain their success.
Besides, I don't think that a cap would be a cure-all for poorly managed teams like the Pirates or the Orioles. Even if your team has more money to spend, what good does it do if the team doesn't know how to properly spend it. A lack of a salary cap hasn't been holding teams like the Pirates and Royals back, it is poor player evaluation, poor drafting, and bad free agent signings. Last year, the Rays proved that if you draft well and develop your players properly, you can win without having a high payroll.
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I'd worry that an expanded playoff would be too tournament-y.
That's why I think the World Series victory should just automatically be given to the team with the highest average VORP.
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What is it with you Bill James acolytes and your newfangled statistics?
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What is it with you Bill James acolytes and your newfangled statistics?
I just love sinister-sounding acronyms! I'd rather just get rid of teams and players and just replace them with mathematical models. If I can get some time on the BlueGene/L supercomputer I can just simulate the next 10,000 years of baseball.
In fact, I'm bad at being a baseball fan of the Bill James kind because I suck at math, though I appreciate what they do. (And I agree that RBIs are a barely useful stat.) But I'm also bad at being a regular baseball fan because I have no memory for names. I also only have about 7 innings of attention span.
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I was just kidding. In fact, I have the Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract on my bookshelf. I love baseball statistics and all of those stupid acronyms: PECOTA, UZR, DIPS, OPS+, RC27, etc.
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I was just kidding. In fact, I have the Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract on my bookshelf.
One of the best books ever.
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I was just kidding. In fact, I have the Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract on my bookshelf. I love baseball statistics and all of those stupid acronyms: PECOTA, UZR, DIPS, OPS+, RC27, etc.
We make jokes about how things will "change your life", but I can honestly say that Bill James and Pete Palmer did.
Also Raymond Smullyan, though I don't know his stance on baseball.
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One of the best books ever.
Yes it is. Although, I don't understand his beef with Dick Allen. He was probably the best pure hitter during the late 1960's and early 70's and should have been in the BBHOF a while ago. He's at least as qualified as Jim Rice.
Sorry, I got sidetracked. But yeah I do enjoy the work of Bill James.
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I would strongly suggest expanding the playoff format in both leagues. Make it like the NFL where six teams from each league get in the playoffs. Give the teams with the two best records in each league a first round bye and let the other four teams battle it out. That would be one way to make it fair to teams like the Orioles, Blue Jays, Indians, etc.
I like how making the playoffs is special in baseball. Basketball, hockey so many teams make it. NFL - that's a different story and I like the way that works. The Brewers making the playoffs last year was a special event.
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My office is doing a cool pool. You get to pick one team from the AL and one from the NL.
The winner is the team that first scores exactly 0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11 and 12 in individual games.
It requires no skill, but boy did I get pissed off when the Tigers started off scoring 5 (easy number to get), 4 (easy), 5 (double! the worst except for...) --- 15, which means they scored 12 but then kept on going too far.
I think the Indians were the "winners" last year, sometime in May.
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I was sad to hear about the unexpected death of Phillies broadcaster and NFL Films voice Harry Kalas. He had quite the set of pipes. He will be missed.
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I was sad to hear about the unexpected death of Phillies broadcaster and NFL Films voice Harry Kalas. He had quite the set of pipes. He will be missed.
While we're on the subject of RIP's, FOTs, we gotta pour some on the ground for Nick Adenhart.
Interesting fact. Adenhart wore number 34, the same number worn by late Cardinal pitcher Josh Hancock.
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RIP Mark "The Bird" Fidrych (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4065778)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zadjO5JZroI/SKwjDu6FKQI/AAAAAAAAAEc/MfKFN9FZ_k0/s320/p1_fidrych.jpg)
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It hasn't been a very good week for baseball.
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Chris Carpenter injured again after pitching 10 (steller) whole innings in 2009. At least it happened before I shelled out 200 bucks for the directv extra innings package.
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RIP Mark "The Bird" Fidrych (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4065778)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zadjO5JZroI/SKwjDu6FKQI/AAAAAAAAAEc/MfKFN9FZ_k0/s320/p1_fidrych.jpg)
not a fan but Alan Trammel was decent enough
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Chris Carpenter injured again after pitching 10 (steller) whole innings in 2009. At least it happened before I shelled out 200 bucks for the directv extra innings package.
god help me, i just did it anyway. please pray for my marriage.
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I had to unsubscribe to the pile of junk that is mlb.tv. It's just too flaky to be worth the price.
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I had to unsubscribe to the pile of junk that is mlb.tv. It's just too flaky to be worth the price.
I've heard that from other people as well. They rolled out the HD premium package this year and I guess it barely works.
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I had to unsubscribe to the pile of junk that is mlb.tv. It's just too flaky to be worth the price.
I've heard that from other people as well. They rolled out the HD premium package this year and I guess it barely works.
It almost never works, and when it does, it's not "HD." It's just pretty decent quality. It's usually closer to Youtube quality. The video just randomly stops working all the time. The archives aren't put up in time, and they haven't even bothered to provide the condensed games yet (one of the reasons I subscribed). Sometimes the archives seem to be put up, but come up with a blackout message when you try to watch them. When this is pointed out they will either claim (1) No, they work fine, you're wrong, or (2) You're trying to watch an archive that doesn't exist (as if I give a shit what their internal problems are).
Even if everything did work right, the blackout restrictions suck hard. It's ludicrous to me that TV stations wouldn't want their feeds, and their advertisers, reaching more people.
Also, you need to install some stupid plug-in that (on both Mac and Windows) runs in the background at all times, and measurably eats up memory and processor time even when you're not watching any videos. (It actually installs itself as a Unix-style daemon on OS X, which is not the right approach for that kind of thing AT ALL.)
It's also the ugliest, more non-intuitive website ever. Plus live games, when they work, are super laggy. This makes gameday kinds of things not work.
There was about a week where they were being somewhat honest on their blog about their problems. But then all those posts were deleted.
I think it's great that they're trying to make games available, but I'm not about to give them a free pass when they're not doing it right.
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I had to unsubscribe to the pile of junk that is mlb.tv. It's just too flaky to be worth the price.
it's fudging worthless which is why I went with extra innings. Everytime I log into mlb.tv it says it can't verify my location and makes me fill out this whole fudging form and then it says the game isn't available and try back in a few minutes and I do and it's still not available. And when I try to watch archived games, playback is a nightmare. Might have to do with being on a mac. I couldn't get it to work at all on my mac last season so I watched all the games on my pc laptop but that's been overrun with a virus, naturally, and I just can't be bothered with it.
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The blackout is generally done to promote home park attendance. I think the broadcasters and advertisers would love it if there were no blackouts.
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My problem with Extra Innings is that it's all no-definition broadcasts. 90 percent of the games are close to unwatchable on an HDTV.
I wonder if blackouts have something to do with cable companies as well. I know a lot of people who only keep cable for Twins, Wild and Wolves games. Give them a way to get all those games plus every other game as well on their computer and they'd cancel cable in a second.
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Right now, live games have the commercials cut out. There's some voodoo going on. I'm certain the cable companies have something to do with, since they're just ruthless.
The NCAA got into trouble when they were monkeying with what games can air to promote attendance. Usually small market teams don't like out-of-town games to air. I can't think of a time when I've chosen to watch a game on TV rather than going in person. They're just different activities for me.
Another funny thing about MLB.tv is that they started sniping at Microsoft, because they blamed Silverlight for last year's problems. Now they're running into the same problems with Flash. (Both kind of suck, but Silverlight is definitely more flexible.) This is everyone's fault but theirs!
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Wow! Just a few days after Orlando Hudson hit for the cycle. Ian Kinsler follows up with one tonight. Also, I think the Marlins look like they are poised to make one of their every six-year runs to the World Series.
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Hey, my tivo did something bizarre. I set it to record the cards/dbacks game which it did. It was a 6-hour recording because that's how the programs are laid out on the mlb extra innings channell. At the 2hr 43min mark, the green tivo bar ended and I couldn't fast forward or rewind. That ever happen to anyone else?
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I had to unsubscribe to the pile of junk that is mlb.tv. It's just too flaky to be worth the price.
Sorry to hear about everyone's troubles but for me, mlb.tv has been working fine and I love it!
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I had to unsubscribe to the pile of junk that is mlb.tv. It's just too flaky to be worth the price.
Sorry to hear about everyone's troubles but for me, mlb.tv has been working fine and I love it!
Yeah, but your main team is out-of-market. Since the Rockies are blacked out for me, all the subsidiary features become more important, like condensed games, and they can't get that shit straight.
HOWEVER: The MLB 2009 iPhone application, with live audio for every game, is awesome. There are some great voices calling games around the country. I was just listening to the current Phillies team, and they were yammering about Tastykakes for like 3 minutes.
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yesno, do you remember Tim Neverett, formerly of the Rockies? He does the Pirates games now with Steve Blass and John Wehner.
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It makes no sense to me why the fox broadcast that's not airing in my market is blacked out. So I'm forced to watch the Angels/Redsox (or even worse, sometimes it'll be two east coast AL teams) and I don't get to see the Cubs/Cards game? I don't get it.
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I sort of remember him. Tv guys tend to blend into each other with me. I hope the Pirates continue to do well this season.
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You and me both. I don't think that the Pirates can keep up this level of pitching, though. They're two years away from being competitive.
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I hesitate to make any early judgments at this juncture of the season. But the Mets look like they're going to have to scrape and claw to win 85 games this year. The pitching beyond Santana looks very questionable. And Daniel Murphy might very well be the worst defensive outfielder in baseball right now. What say you Mets fans?
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And Daniel Murphy might very well be the worst defensive outfielder in baseball right now.
Worse than Delmon Young? Man, that's gotta be stinkola.
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I don't blame Daniel Murphy, because outfield isn't his natural position. He's a 2b/3b by trade. They put him in the outfield because he can hit.
As an aside, I wonder when Delmon Young will finally put it all together. The guy has tons of natural ability, but also appears to have a 10 cent head.
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I don't think it's ever going to happen for Delmon but I don't fault the Twins for the trade. OF's trying to work out problems are cheap but mediocre pitchers cost millions. I suppose I'd like to have Bartlett still, but it was worth the risk and it just isn't going to pan out. Hopefully they can sucker another team into giving up a good prospect for him.
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I wouldn't give up on him just yet, though. Some guys take longer to develop than others. But if the Twins decided to trade him, they could probably still get a nice return for him, as you said.
One other thing-the Twins really got hosed on the Santana trade.
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As an aside, I wonder when Delmon Young will finally put it all together.
I would say within a couple weeks of the Twins trading him mid-season to the Reds/Pirates/Diamondbacks for a shortstop of questionable talent and a middle reliever with a 4.50+ ERA.
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how's about a rollcall of your team?
i'm a cardinals dude.
on a related note, how creepy does dave duncan look peeping out of the dugout?
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One other thing-the Twins really got hosed on the Santana trade.
I think that was the best that they could do at the time- I don't think Boston ever had any intention of pulling the trigger and the Yankees would have either given us Hughes or Kennedy. Gomez is already one of the best defensive outfielders in the game and I think he'll turn into a decent hitter. If either Hughes or Kennedy turn into an ace then it might look bad in the end but I do like Gomez. The real mistake was not trading Santana at the trade deadline the year before which would have brought in at least 3-4 of some team's top prospects.
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how's about a rollcall of your team?
i'm a cardinals dude.
on a related note, how creepy does dave duncan look peeping out of the dugout?
Good idea. I'm primarily a Mets fan. But I also like the Pirates, Athletics, and Orioles.
And Dave Duncan is the man. He managed to turn Todd Wellemeyer and Joel Pineiro into quality starters.
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how's about a rollcall of your team?
i'm a cardinals dude.
Guess that makes us enemies!
Actually, I like Cards fans. Most of them actually know what they're talking about, which is nice.
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how's about a rollcall of your team?
i'm a cardinals dude.
Guess that makes us enemies!
Actually, I like Cards fans. Most of them actually know what they're talking about, which is nice.
i assume that means yer a cubs fan (haven't read this ENTIRE thread). Could be a mets fan tho.
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how's about a rollcall of your team?
i'm a cardinals dude.
Guess that makes us enemies!
Actually, I like Cards fans. Most of them actually know what they're talking about, which is nice.
i assume that means yer a cubs fan (haven't read this ENTIRE thread). Could be a mets fan tho.
Cubs.
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I have a beef with some Cubs fans, in particular Michael Wilbon. What was up with the deplorable treatment of Steve Bartman?
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I have a beef with some Cubs fans, in particular Michael Wilbon. What was up with the deplorable treatment of Steve Bartman?
Yeah, Alex Gonzalez really flew under the radar on that one. He should be on the Buckner level of goats. I don't believe anyone who says they wouldn't have gone after that ball.
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I hesitate to make any early judgments at this juncture of the season. But the Mets look like they're going to have to scrape and claw to win 85 games this year. The pitching beyond Santana looks very questionable. And Daniel Murphy might very well be the worst defensive outfielder in baseball right now. What say you Mets fans?
Mets fan, and usually an optimist, but ew boy that series in St. Louis was hard to watch.
Think they need to sweep the Nats this weekend, just to get the collective NY press off their backs for a few days.
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I think in hindsight it might have been a more prudent investment to sign Derek Lowe as opposed to going the cheaper route and signing Oliver Perez. Perez is maddeningly inconsistent. I'm not too worried about the offense, it's the dearth of starting pitching that concerns me.
And they have to take at least 2 of 3 from Washington, or the fans will want Manuel's head on a platter.
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I think in hindsight it might have been a more prudent investment to sign Derek Lowe as opposed to going the cheaper route and signing Oliver Perez. Perez is maddeningly inconsistent. I'm not too worried about the offense, it's the dearth of starting pitching that concerns me.
And they have to take at least 2 of 3 from Washington, or the fans will want Manuel's head on a platter.
The Braves way overpaid for Lowe. At his age, I don't know if that'll look so smart 3 years for now. Or even next year. Ollie is what he is--great starts followed up by hideous ones. Always does well against the Phillies, though, for what it's worth.
I feel like Pelfrey will right himself post-tendinitis, although that's more feeling; can't say I have evidence to support it.
Maine needs to cut down on the walks; pure stuff-wise, he's fine right now, and he's not missing by much. But he walks way too many guys, and guys who really shouldn't be earning walks.
Livan Hernandez should not be counted on for anything (nor should any 5th starter, really--that's why they're 5th starters).
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I agree that 5th starters shouldn't be relied on to give you consistency but give that spot to a young guy or rotate young guys until somebody sticks. I've never been a fan of using the 5th spot on far below average pitchers who can eat innings.
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I agree that 5th starters shouldn't be relied on to give you consistency but give that spot to a young guy or rotate young guys until somebody sticks. I've never been a fan of using the 5th spot on far below average pitchers who can eat innings.
I agree. After a certain point, pitchers have to learn how to pitch at the major league level. Some teams seem fine doing this (Dodgers, Cards) and others are absolutely terrified of putting a young guy on the mound (the Mets being a prime example).
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Teams in big markets do have a dilemma though because if you throw a pitcher out there to get shelled in front of a packed house and the big market media it's going to be a lot more damaging to their confidence than the Twins throwing all of their young guys out in front of 10-15 thousand a night and MN's semi-friendly media. That's why I never fault the Yankees and Mets or any other major market team for trading away their prospects. In those markets, prospects just don't have as much of a chance- you really have to have the right makeup to play there. But, like we both agree on, it makes no sense to start a crappy pitcher every 5th start. I'll take the risk of damaging a young player's confidence and maybe finding a long term starter before conceding 10-15 games a year.
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Teams in big markets do have a dilemma though because if you throw a pitcher out there to get shelled in front of a packed house and the big market media it's going to be a lot more damaging to their confidence than the Twins throwing all of their young guys out in front of 10-15 thousand a night and MN's semi-friendly media. That's why I never fault the Yankees and Mets or any other major market team for trading away their prospects. In those markets, prospects just don't have as much of a chance- you really have to have the right makeup to play there. But, like we both agree on, it makes no sense to start a crappy pitcher every 5th start. I'll take the risk of damaging a young player's confidence and maybe finding a long term starter before conceding 10-15 games a year.
That's pretty much the bind they're in. A large, vocal segment of the fanbase wants WINS NOW and they'll accept teh LIvan Hernandezes of the world getting shelled more than they will some kid from triple-A.
It's partially a difference in markets, but the Twins are really good at it, too. They're one of the best run organizations in the game. Michael Lewis could've written a Moneyball-style book about Terry Ryan just as easily as he did about Billy Beane (although I guess Beane is the flashier personality of the two).
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Terry Ryan and Bill Smith are far from Moneyball GMs though. I've always argued that the Twins won in spite of Ryan in some ways. He drafted well and made some good trades but his offseason FA moves were atrocious and killed the Twins at the beginning of the season until they finally decided to bring up the prospects that were waiting. There were also at least 2 years where if a move would have been made at the deadline they might have been able to win it all. But, Ryan would never deal his stockpile of OF's and pitchers. The Twins owe much more to their excellent coaching at all levels than they do to Ryan. I guess Ryan can be credited with developing a great staff, but I think it's one of those cases where he surrounded himself with the right people and let them do the heavy lifting rather than being a baseball genius.
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Terry Ryan and Bill Smith are far from Moneyball GMs though. I've always argued that the Twins won in spite of Ryan in some ways. He drafted well and made some good trades but his offseason FA moves were atrocious and killed the Twins at the beginning of the season until they finally decided to bring up the prospects that were waiting. There were also at least 2 years where if a move would have been made at the deadline they might have been able to win it all. But, Ryan would never deal his stockpile of OF's and pitchers. The Twins owe much more to their excellent coaching at all levels than they do to Ryan. I guess Ryan can be credited with developing a great staff, but I think it's one of those cases where he surrounded himself with the right people and let them do the heavy lifting rather than being a baseball genius.
Can't say I've followed their every move. I just meant they were 'Moneyball' in the sense that they draft well and they find ways to win against the Big Market Teams of the world. I mean, when was the last time they didn't at least compete for a playoff spot in a season? And the AL Central isn't usually a cupcake division, either (even accounting for the Royals).
I'd definitely take Ryan's approach over that employed by the Mets for the last, oh, entirety of their existence.
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Yup. No Cards/Cubs for me today. They're showing the Yankees/Redsox. Guess it makes sense. Unfortunately.
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That's the way of the world. All baseball outside of the New York/New England area is second-rate.
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Yup. No Cards/Cubs for me today. They're showing the Yankees/Redsox. Guess it makes sense. Unfortunately.
I was unfortunately subjected to it.
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Red Sox fan here... I'll be around every once in a while to annoy you with my post-Curse smug attitude and belief that the baseball universe revolves around the Boston New York rivalry.
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Yup. No Cards/Cubs for me today. They're showing the Yankees/Redsox. Guess it makes sense. Unfortunately.
I was unfortunately subjected to it.
eh, it's okay, i didn't want to see Pujols cross the 1000 RBI mark with a grand slam anyway.
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Another outstanding start today for Oliver Perez. 4.1 IP, 9 H, 7 R, 7 ER, 3 BB, 3 K, 2 HR
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Pitching is a sore spot for this April. I'm not confident that Ubaldo will ever get control while he's with the Rockies; he's been a disappointment so far. Speed is nice, but it's not enough. At least the Rockies won one today--Jason Marquis has been pretty good. He's also a better hitter than a lot of the Rockies' infield.
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Pitching is a sore spot for this April. I'm not confident that Ubaldo will ever get control while he's with the Rockies; he's been a disappointment so far. Speed is nice, but it's not enough. At least the Rockies won one today--Jason Marquis has been pretty good. He's also a better hitter than a lot of the Rockies' infield.
Yeah, Ubaldo has killed me after that promising first start. Enjoy Marquis, trust me, it won't last.
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While I'm sure that this will change, there doesn't really appear to be any great team out there. Tampa Bay is in the cellar of the AL East and the Pirates, of all teams, lead the race for the NL Wild Card. What's going on?
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Yup. No Cards/Cubs for me today. They're showing the Yankees/Redsox. Guess it makes sense. Unfortunately.
I wish I could make a comment about how lame Sunday Night Baseball is tonight, but Ellsbury stealing home was pretty great. I clapped. I'm glad it happened against the Yankees, a team I like less than the Red Sox.
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Yup. No Cards/Cubs for me today. They're showing the Yankees/Redsox. Guess it makes sense. Unfortunately.
I wish I could make a comment about how lame Sunday Night Baseball is tonight, but Ellsbury stealing home was pretty great. I clapped. I'm glad it happened against the Yankees, a team I like less than the Red Sox.
Wish I coulda seen it when it happened. I was in the car, catching the game on the radio, and had to piece together what happened from the crowd's reaction and John Sterling's halting, way-too-late description of what sort-of happened.
If there's a worse play-by-play announcer than John Sterling, I don't want to hear him. Never mind his moronic home run calls; the man simply can not describe the action. Which is a pretty serious handicap when you're a radio play-by-play guy.
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I've been loving the game audio on the iPhone MLB app, and listening to announcers from around the country. Sterling and Waldman are about the worst. Bob Uecker making horsey sound effects when Carlos Lee/El Caballo comes to the plate, about the best.
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Ron Santo is pretty bad (although I love his moans whenever something horrible happens to the Cubs), but Pat Hughes mostly balances him out.
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Ron Santo is pretty bad (although I love his moans whenever something horrible happens to the Cubs), but Pat Hughes mostly balances him out.
Usually I hate it when the announcers are such unabashed homers for their team, but I kind of like Ron Santo, in a weird way. I guess because he comes across less like a PBP guy and more like they just invited some random, long-suffering fan into the booth. His groans and "aw jeez!"es when something bad happens are priceless.
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The Yankees have the worst ERA in baseball and just got swept at Fenway.
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbF7Hp2vIkY[/youtube]
I don't like it... I LOVE IT!
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Ron Santo is pretty bad (although I love his moans whenever something horrible happens to the Cubs), but Pat Hughes mostly balances him out.
Usually I hate it when the announcers are such unabashed homers for their team, but I kind of like Ron Santo, in a weird way. I guess because he comes across less like a PBP guy and more like they just invited some random, long-suffering fan into the booth. His groans and "aw jeez!"es when something bad happens are priceless.
Plus the guy lost his legs and has done a lot of great work for diabetes so I wouldn't feel right bashing him.
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The Yankees have the worst ERA in baseball and just got swept at Fenway.
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbF7Hp2vIkY[/youtube]
I don't like it... I LOVE IT!
This series was the most satisfying thrashing of the Yankees by the Red Sox since 2004. It just proved that despite the much higher payroll and the Yankees' new McMansion of a stadium, the Red Sox (so far... in April) look like the better team in every aspect from GM and manager on down to their bullpen.
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It is hard to believe that with a payroll in excess of $220 million dollars that the Yanks were starting the likes of Angel Berroa and Brett Gardner. The Yankees have a few very talented players but also a lot of players that wouldn't start on some lower division teams.
If the Steinbrenners were smart, they would hire away Jed Hoyer or Ben Cherington away from Red Sox. Brian Cashman's time has come and gone.
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(http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/a-rod-massge1.jpg%20400%C3%97333%20pixels.jpg)
"High School Juicer, Poor Tipper, Bitch Tits" (http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2009/04/new_claims_a-rod_juiced_in_hig.php)
I'm ALMOST starting to feel sorry for this guy.
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I saw that about A-Rod. I'm starting to care less: steroids are like the modern version of being a spitballer. Maybe a little worse, like corking a bat.
edit: I guess the steroid era does make most of the records from that time mean less. And it's hard to know how to statistically correct for, in the way we can do with judging old-timey records.
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I can't believe that I feel empathy for someone who's making nearly $30 million per year. But I too feel sorry for A-Rod. At this point, the vultures are simply picking away at an already rotten corpse. The damage done to his reputation is irreparable. I just don't see the purpose in prolonging his misery. It's just a way to move books, magazines, and newspapers.
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I saw that about A-Rod. I'm starting to care less: steroids are like the modern version of being a spitballer. Maybe a little worse, like corking a bat.
edit: I guess the steroid era does make most of the records from that time mean less. And it's hard to know how to statistically correct for, in the way we can do with judging old-timey records.
And really, the old-timey records would be a lot different if they let blacks play.
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I don't like PED's in baseball. However, Gaylord Perry is an admitted cheat and he's lauded for it. I don't get the inconsistent standards. Cheating is cheating.
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I don't like PED's in baseball. However, Gaylord Perry is an admitted cheat and he's lauded for it. I don't get the inconsistent standards. Cheating is cheating.
Don't you understand? Steroids are bad and make home runs invalid somehow, which in turn makes Baby Jesus cry. But Gaylord Perry's cheating is charming!
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I would use any and every (legal and non-health-threatening) drug to do my profession better if I could.
As for the records thing, there are ways to statistically correct, in a rough way, even for white-only baseball. E.g. you assume the average or replacement-level player is worse. I doubt that steroids will make historical analysis of baseball any more difficult than it already is.
Ugh, I'm so sick of this issue. I look forward to the nanotech and exoskeleton scandals of the 2030s. I've also read that Jorge Cantú has been considering replacing his eyes with some sort of digital imaging system.
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Just watched the cards/phillies game. I am shaken up. That was absolutely sickening to watch.
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Manny Ramirez suspended 50 games for PED use. Uh-oh.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907
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Manny Ramirez suspended 50 games for PED use. Uh-oh.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907
I'd like to believe that it really was just a mixup with with doctor because the guy is one of the best hitter I've ever seen, but it's too hard not to be a cynic about this.
I hope Ortiz is next.
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If Manny was taking PED's to treat a medical condition, why did he choose not to appeal this suspension? He's going to lose nearly $8 million dollars this year because a team will not pay a player while on suspension. This all seems very strange.
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Manny is half douchebag, half lovable oaf.
As for this scandal, I don't know.
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If Manny was taking PED's to treat a medical condition, why did he choose not to appeal this suspension?
There's almost zero change it would get reduced. Isn't that why JC Romero is suing the company that made whatever supplement he took that lead to his suspension?
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If Manny was taking PED's to treat a medical condition, why did he choose not to appeal this suspension?
There's almost zero change it would get reduced. Isn't that why JC Romero is suing the company that made whatever supplement he took that lead to his suspension?
JC Romero actually tested positive for a steroid. A zero tolerance policy for actual steroids makes sense.
As I read it, the drug Manny took is not itself a performance enhancer, just one whose use usually correlates with use of performance enhancers, and is banned for that reason. If that's the case, if he could demonstrate that he was prescribed the drug, it makes sense for his sentence to be reduced. By not appealing, he could be seen to be admitting that he can't make that demonstration.
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Manny Ramirez suspended 50 games for PED use. Uh-oh.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907
He uses PEDophiles? In what way? I am not so sure I am opposed to this.
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He uses PEDophiles? In what way? I am not so sure I am opposed to this.
It's Manny Ramirez. Anything could be possible.
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If Manny was taking PED's to treat a medical condition, why did he choose not to appeal this suspension?
There's almost zero change it would get reduced. Isn't that why JC Romero is suing the company that made whatever supplement he took that lead to his suspension?
JC Romero actually tested positive for a steroid. A zero tolerance policy for actual steroids makes sense.
As I read it, the drug Manny took is not itself a performance enhancer, just one whose use usually correlates with use of performance enhancers, and is banned for that reason. If that's the case, if he could demonstrate that he was prescribed the drug, it makes sense for his sentence to be reduced. By not appealing, he could be seen to be admitting that he can't make that demonstration.
My wife was wondering about this substance (which is apparently HCG), and I compared it to getting caught not with a dimebag, but with a three-foot dragon-covered bong. You might not have any pot on you at the time, but chances are you're getting high.
Basically, by not appealing it (as Romero), he's kinda saying "Ya got me!" It's the best possible outcome for both him and MLB, because technically neither of them have to discuss the incident any further. So Manny gets to chill for a couple of months, and MLB can twiddle their thumbs and blame their silence on the CBA with the players' union.
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He uses PEDophiles? In what way? I am not so sure I am opposed to this.
It's Manny Ramirez. Anything could be possible.
Apparently HCG can be used to treat ED, although it's not the common treatment.
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Any player who stands to lose 8 million dollars knows exactly what is going into his body. I can see a player who is new to the English language not knowing... maybe. But, with drug testing being headline news, 99.9 percent of the time players know exactly what is in the drugs and that's why they take them and the products that mask them.
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I'm so fucking sick of the Cards offensive sluuuuuuuuump. It's fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge. Adam Wainwright only allows two hits over eight innings and get an L out of it.
I tivo all the games and whenever Khalil Greene is up I just fast forward. I don't see how his average is over .200 (barely).
URGH!
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You can't rely on two people to carry an entire lineup. Besides Pujols and Ludwick, the remainder of their starting nine is mediocre at best.
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You can't rely on two people to carry an entire lineup. Besides Pujols and Ludwick, the remainder of their starting nine is mediocre at best.
That's horseshit. Duncan's keeping pace with the likes of Utley and Soriano. If you think Duncan is "mediocre at best" you're judging him on his shitty year last year, which he was out for a lot of and was in serious pain when he was in. The jury is still out on Duncan. You could be right. But you could be dead wrong, too. Your most glaring error of omission is Yadier Molina, who if you think is "mediocre at best" you obviously don't follow the NL central very closely and how far he's come offensively. And Barden and Thurston platooning at third were two of the best hitting rookies in the league in april. Skip Schumaker is hitting .310 while learnging a whole new position. I'll remember this when Colby Rasmus is an all-star, too. The Cardinals led the league in average and runs in April, and they've had at least 4 rookies on their roster getting starts so far this year due to injuries. Pujols and Ludwick didn't do that all by themselves. It's actually hard to judge who you're even talking about as the "starting nine" because La Russa switches it around so much.
Regular Joe said it best: You're not as good as you look when you're winning, and you're not as bad as you look when you're losing (I'm sure he got it from somewhere), but it's still frustrating to watch.
On a completely unrelated note, watching the Pirates in this last series, I gotta say, you've got a fun team to watch in Pittsburgh this year. McClouth can play some defense.
Edited to take out all those nasty things I said about your mother. I was upset.
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First of all, I'm a Mets fan. And I had no intention of riling you up. I really don't do that kind of stuff intentionally.
Secondly, "mediocre" was a poor choice of word on my part. The Cardinals have a lineup that I would consider to be in the middle of the pack in the National League, or above average. Pujols is a Hall of Fame player. Ludwick is a great player. Duncan and Molina are very good players. Although, Duncan has yet to stay healthy for a full season. But I don't think that the rest of their lineup is all that great. Skip Schumaker is an average second baseman. Brian Barden and Joe Thurston are AAAA bench-type players. I mean, there is a reason why he's bounced around between three different clubs before the age of 29. Colby Rasmus should be a great player eventually. But right now, he's just a rookie who is still developing. Khalil Greene is sporting a stout .610 OPS. Ankiel and Glaus are hurt right now and there is no guarantee that they regain their form after they return. I think that some of these guys are playing above their heads and that they will regress as the season continues.
Before the season, in another post, I predicted that the Cardinals would win 86 games. I stand by that prediction. However, because there are no truly great teams in the NL Central, that may be good enough to win the division. It may not be. I honestly don't know. But if I'm wrong, you can call me out on it.
I clearly pissed you off with my comment and I'm sorry for that. I was merely expressing what I believed to be an informed opinion. But if you're angry with the Cardinals, don't take that anger out on me.
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Baseball sux, football rules.
And hockey.
And especially college basketball.
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I like all of those sports. I just happen to like baseball the most.
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First of all, I'm a Mets fan. And I had no intention of riling you up. I really don't do that kind of stuff intentionally.
Secondly, "mediocre" was a poor choice of word on my part. The Cardinals have a lineup that I would consider to be in the middle of the pack in the National League, or above average. Pujols is a Hall of Fame player. Ludwick is a great player. Duncan and Molina are very good players. Although, Duncan has yet to stay healthy for a full season. But I don't think that the rest of their lineup is all that great. Skip Schumaker is an average second baseman. Brian Barden and Joe Thurston are AAAA bench-type players. I mean, there is a reason why he's bounced around between three different clubs before the age of 29. Colby Rasmus should be a great player eventually. But right now, he's just a rookie who is still developing. Khalil Greene is sporting a stout .610 OPS. Ankiel and Glaus are hurt right now and there is no guarantee that they regain their form after they return. I think that some of these guys are playing above their heads and that they will regress as the season continues.
Before the season, in another post, I predicted that the Cardinals would win 86 games. I stand by that prediction. However, because there are no truly great teams in the NL Central, that may be good enough to win the division. It may not be. I honestly don't know. But if I'm wrong, you can call me out on it.
I clearly pissed you off with my comment and I'm sorry for that. I was merely expressing what I believed to be an informed opinion. But if you're angry with the Cardinals, don't take that anger out on me.
But I don't have a way to get a hold of the Cardinals. It's all good. I edited the post to take out the part about you talking out of your ass after going back in the thread and realizing you aren't one to do that. You have valid points. Luckily the Cardinals do tend to play above their heads which is why we, the Cards fans, tend to think we can win it all every year. But when something like 2006 happens, it doesn't really ground us in reality. I spit on your spit, I piss on your spit, I shit on your piss, I fart on your shit, I laugh at your fart, WE ARE FRIENDS AGAIN.
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You didn't have to edit your post. If you want to say that I'm talking out of my ass, do so. It doesn't bother me. We all have differing opinions. That's why we have this forum, so we can express those opinions.
Personally, I have no animus towards the Cards, not even after 2006. I was happy for them. It's a great baseball town and they were a great team.
The Cards will be fine. They're one of the best organizations in baseball, after all. And they still have Albert Pujols. So it's not all bad. Right?
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Lackey Ejected Two Pitches Into Debut (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090516&content_id=4770810&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)
"Davidson immediately gave Lackey the heave-ho..."
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I only like the Cardinals because if they won every Workd Series ever going forward, they would cat h the Yankees first.
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The Rangers are no joke. The return they got for Mark Teixeira is one of the great heists in baseball history. Elvis Andrus, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, and Matt Harrison are all contributing. Neftali Feliz is probably the best pitching prospect in the minors. Then on top of all that, they have Ian Kinsler, Josh Hamilton, and Chris Davis.
It's their division to lose and likely will be for a few years to come. Great job by Jon Daniels and John Hart.
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They still are the only team in baseball who have never won a playoff series, so I won't believe in the Rangers until they do. But, I'm rooting for them.
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As part of daily ritual, one thing I do is rank NL players everyday. (It supports my fantasy baseball habit; hip or not, my league is in season 26, we ain't stopping now).
Here's how the Cardinal's offense rates out as of today (determined by stats to date.)
2) Albert Pujols
24) Ryan Ludwick
64) Yadier Molina
68) Chris Duncan
88) Skip Schumaker
105) Brian Barden
106) Colby Rasmus
117) Rick Ankiel
122) Kahlil Greene
146) Brendan Ryan
172) David Freese
Nobody else is playing enough to register in this evaluation system. This is not really the profile of a highly efficient team.
Here's the pitchers, just for fun
12) Ryan Franklin
35) Chris Carpenter
44) Kyle McLellan
49) Kyle Lohse
52) Adam Wainwright
53) Joel Piniero
55) Chris Perez
63) Jason Motte
65) Dennys Reyes
77) Mitchell Boggs
109) Todd Wellemyer
This is their strength, a sledload of mid-level starters and solid middle relievers that will keep games close and give Pujols or Ludwick a chance to win it with one hit at the end.
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Related topic: According to Leonard Mlodinow the World Series would have to a be least 269 games to ensure that the best team was crowned world champion. In a seven games series the less talented team has a 20% chance of taking the four games necessary to capture the title.
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What's meant by "ensure"? Nothing's certain.
Related topic: According to Leonard Mlodinow the World Series would have to a be least 269 games to ensure that the best team was crowned world champion. In a seven games series the less talented team has a 20% chance of taking the four games necessary to capture the title.
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This is their strength, a sledload of mid-level starters and solid middle relievers that will keep games close and give Pujols or Ludwick a chance to win it with one hit at the end.
Besides Pujols and Ludwick, the Cardinals biggest asset is Dave Duncan. He's taken the likes of Joel Piniero, Kyle Lohse, and Todd Wellemeyer and turned them into solid starting pitchers. If you look at their statistics, besides Wainwright, that staff doesn't get a ton of strikeouts. But they do tend to go at least 6 IP, and for the most part, give the team a quality start. Piniero, for example, only has 14 K's this year. But he's efficient, because he induces so many groundball outs.
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As part of daily ritual, one thing I do is rank NL players everyday. (It supports my fantasy baseball habit; hip or not, my league is in season 26, we ain't stopping now).
Here's how the Cardinal's offense rates out as of today (determined by stats to date.)
2) Albert Pujols
24) Ryan Ludwick
64) Yadier Molina
68) Chris Duncan
88) Skip Schumaker
105) Brian Barden
106) Colby Rasmus
117) Rick Ankiel
122) Kahlil Greene
146) Brendan Ryan
172) David Freese
Nobody else is playing enough to register in this evaluation system. This is not really the profile of a highly efficient team.
Here's the pitchers, just for fun
12) Ryan Franklin
35) Chris Carpenter
44) Kyle McLellan
49) Kyle Lohse
52) Adam Wainwright
53) Joel Piniero
55) Chris Perez
63) Jason Motte
65) Dennys Reyes
77) Mitchell Boggs
109) Todd Wellemyer
This is their strength, a sledload of mid-level starters and solid middle relievers that will keep games close and give Pujols or Ludwick a chance to win it with one hit at the end.
touche
Davey, would you mind posting the stats for a strong team for comparison. I'd like to see how many players on a team don't seem mediocre when ranked like this. I'd love to see the Yankees just for giggles, but also a "strong" team that doesn't have an unlimited budget.
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Are your rankings based on purely this year Dave or do you take the past into account? Who would you have above Pujols? Ibanez? Maybe Hanley Ramirez? Santana?
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Raul Ibanez is ridiculous. He has a .735 slugging percentage and a .432 OBP. His OPS+ is 192. What's even more amazing is that he isn't just padding his stats at Citizens Bank Park. He has a 1.041 OPS on the road. Best signing of the offseason, thus far. And it's not even close.
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Raul Ibanez is ridiculous. He has a .735 slugging percentage and a .432 OBP. His OPS+ is 192. What's even more amazing is that he isn't just padding his stats at Citizens Bank Park. He has a 1.041 OPS on the road. Best signing of the offseason, thus far. And it's not even close.
And I managed to get him on almost all of my fantasy teams.
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Are your rankings based on purely this year Dave or do you take the past into account? Who would you have above Pujols? Ibanez? Maybe Hanley Ramirez? Santana?
This is strictly based on this season. The only offensive player ahead of Pujols is indeed Raul Ibanez. Let me see if I can find a solid current team. But it's got to be NL; we are talking about baseball here, not stunt-of-the-week. The DH is like deuces and one-eyed jacks wild, and if you get the seven of spades, you have to down a shot.
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Much as it pains me to say it, the best team going's probably the Dodgers. Here's how they stack up as of today, May 17, 2009, based purely on this year's stats. And it's all in the pitchers, who are, so far at least, phenomenal.
Hitters
16) Orlando Hudosn
17) Matt Kemp
31) Andre Ethier
32) Manny Ramirez
39) Casey Blake
43) Juan Pierre
58) James Loney
72) Russell Martin
131) Rafael Furcal
176) Blake DeWitt
Pitchers
5) Jonathan Broxton
6) Chad Billingsley
16) Randy Wolf
20) Ramon Troncoso
36) Jorge de la Rosa
45) Eric Stults
54) Hiroki Kuroda
85) Clayton Kershaw
That's pretty freaking strong; 7 of the top 54 pitchers? The "typical" team has 3.
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If I had Ibanez on my fantasy team I'd be trying as hard as I could to make some owner overpay. He's good, but he's not this good. He's so far off his career norm it's ridiculous. I would bet he comes close to his '06 numbers which are great, but not that great considering where he already is.
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If I had Ibanez on my fantasy team I'd be trying as hard as I could to make some owner overpay. He's good, but he's not this good. He's so far off his career norm it's ridiculous. I would bet he comes close to his '06 numbers which are great, but not that great considering where he already is.
I agree with you. He isn't going to be carrying a 1.200 OPS all season. But his numbers this season will probably above his career norms simply because he gets to hit for 81 games in that bandbox. I think he'll probably finish with 35 HR and 120 RBI, which is what he hit for in '06.
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Much as it pains me to say it, the best team going's probably the Dodgers. Here's how they stack up as of today, May 17, 2009, based purely on this year's stats. And it's all in the pitchers, who are, so far at least, phenomenal.
Hitters
16) Orlando Hudosn
17) Matt Kemp
31) Andre Ethier
32) Manny Ramirez
39) Casey Blake
43) Juan Pierre
58) James Loney
72) Russell Martin
131) Rafael Furcal
176) Blake DeWitt
Pitchers
5) Jonathan Broxton
6) Chad Billingsley
16) Randy Wolf
20) Ramon Troncoso
36) Jorge de la Rosa
45) Eric Stults
54) Hiroki Kuroda
85) Clayton Kershaw
That's pretty freaking strong; 7 of the top 54 pitchers? The "typical" team has 3.
goldang. who's your team anyway, Dave? The Reds or Braves?
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I almost hesitate to admit it, but it's the Braves. They were the only team I ever saw live as a kid (well, they were usually playing another team.) I figure if I stuck with them through all those 105 loss seasons in the 70's, I might as well stick now. For better or worse. But in Nashville, I also got lots of newspaper coverage of the Reds and Cardinals, so I have a soft spot for them as well.
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I would imagine that fan allegiances in Tennessee would break down like this:
East: Braves (and Reds to a lesser extent)
West: Cardinals (the Cards AAA farm team has been in Memphis for years)
Of course, there are probably smatterings of Cubs, Yankees, and Red Sox fans in Tennessee as well.
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I would imagine that fan allegiances in Tennessee would break down like this:
East: Braves (and Reds to a lesser extent)
West: Cardinals (the Cards AAA farm team has been in Memphis for years)
Of course, there are probably smatterings of Cubs, Yankees, and Red Sox fans in Tennessee as well.
According to the CommonCensus Sports Map (http://www.commoncensus.org/sports_map.php?sport=2), you're right on the money.
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That's a pretty cool link. Although I don't think it's all that accurate, I've always liked this map.
(http://www.overmorgen.com/weblog/files/2009/01/09/united_countries_of_baseball.jpg)
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That's a pretty cool link. Although I don't think it's all that accurate, I've always liked this map.
(http://www.overmorgen.com/weblog/files/2009/01/09/united_countries_of_baseball.jpg)
That's cool. There are a lot of old-time cards fans out here in california since up to a certain point, they were the westernmost club. A historical retrospective series of these maps would be good.
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The Red Sox, Yankees, Braves, Cubs, and the Cardinals should take up a large portion of that map. Those are the teams in baseball with national followings.
It seems like the Sox fans, mainly the bandwagon Sox fans, tend to be the most obnoxious. I've seen Orioles games on television where at least half of the ballpark was taken over by Red Sox fans.
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It seems like the Sox fans, mainly the bandwagon Sox fans, tend to be the most obnoxious. I've seen Orioles games on television where at least half of the ballpark was taken over by Red Sox fans.
I believe the same thing happens when the Yankees visit the Orioles. The reason why we Red Sox fans go down is part due to Southwest Airlines' ultra cheap fares to BWI, Baltimore's proximity to Washington DC and the experience of actually sitting in a beautiful modern ballpark instead of the broken down old ruin we have up here.
I agree that post-2004 bandwagon Red Sox fans can be annoying (although I think we were just as insufferable as miserable, fatalistic bastards). A good way to recognize the old Sox fans is that they're the ones usually hunched over watching the game intently, muttering stats and strategies and keeping their hands occupied either cracking peanuts or keeping score. New Sox fans are decked from head to toe in brand new gear, double fisting $10 lite beers, mispronouncing opposing players' names and obnoxiously shouting or singing 'Sweet Caroline'. Trust me, I hate them as much as you do.
Although, if Baltimore fans really hate Red Sox fans coming to Camden Yards, they should at least try and buy some tickets and shut us out.
I hate to bring it back to New York, but have you ever sat in the Bleachers at the old Yankee Stadium? Obnoxious is too weak a word to describe the fans there. I'm happy to see the new Stadium has drained all the life (and money) out of the them.
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unfortunately Missouri looks the same on the electoral map.
:'(
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That United Countries of Baseball map is inaccurate in that it shows Phillies territory in NJ in what is definitely Mets territory. Although the word "hoagie" slips into conversation now and again (e.g. school lunch menus), and the occasional Phillies or Eagles fan can be found, northern Ocean County (Toms River, Brick, Point Pleasant) is definitely Mets (and Giants) territory.
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i like that map a lot. although methinks they were a little generous with the Nationals' territory.
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Yes, Eastern NC would be surprised to hear that they are Nats fans. Redskins, absolutely.
Raleigh-Durham, due to the unbelievable asininity of Time Warner, is the largest market in the country that has no "home team" broadcasts.
We're supposed to get the MASN broadcasts of the O's and Nats, but the dispute, which TWC has carried through at least three and maybe different lost appeals at different levels of courts, means no local games for us.
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See, if Twins Territory (as it is officially called in promotional materials) is the third-largest region on the map, you'd think ESPN would pay attention to 'em in terms outside "catalyst for the Yankees resurgence" or "where this really great catcher is biding his time until an East Coast team signs him in less than two years". I don't even think the Dugout gives a shit about 'em, and they're playoff-caliber like every other year.
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The Twins might cover a lot of land, but not as many people.
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It seems like the Sox fans, mainly the bandwagon Sox fans, tend to be the most obnoxious. I've seen Orioles games on television where at least half of the ballpark was taken over by Red Sox fans.
I believe the same thing happens when the Yankees visit the Orioles. The reason why we Red Sox fans go down is part due to Southwest Airlines' ultra cheap fares to BWI, Baltimore's proximity to Washington DC and the experience of actually sitting in a beautiful modern ballpark instead of the broken down old ruin we have up here.
I agree that post-2004 bandwagon Red Sox fans can be annoying (although I think we were just as insufferable as miserable, fatalistic bastards). A good way to recognize the old Sox fans is that they're the ones usually hunched over watching the game intently, muttering stats and strategies and keeping their hands occupied either cracking peanuts or keeping score. New Sox fans are decked from head to toe in brand new gear, double fisting $10 lite beers, mispronouncing opposing players' names and obnoxiously shouting or singing 'Sweet Caroline'. Trust me, I hate them as much as you do.
Although, if Baltimore fans really hate Red Sox fans coming to Camden Yards, they should at least try and buy some tickets and shut us out.
I hate to bring it back to New York, but have you ever sat in the Bleachers at the old Yankee Stadium? Obnoxious is too weak a word to describe the fans there. I'm happy to see the new Stadium has drained all the life (and money) out of the them.
I don't have a problem with Sox fans packing other ballparks. In fact, it's probably the only way a lot of Red Sox fans get to see the team in person. I'm just saying that a number of Red Sox fans have become increasingly obnoxious after 2004. But I guess after 86 years of "misery," they want to revel in the team's success. I even lurk on SOSH from time to time and those are some of the smartest baseball fans you'll find.
And yes, I did sit in the Bleachers at Old Yankee Stadium. However, the fans weren't all that bad. Perhaps it was because the Yanks were playing the Blue Jays that night. That stadium was a dump. But I don't think I would ever want to set foot in the new ballpark. It seems too much like a shopping mall. While the old stadium was decrepit, it was fun to watch a game there. The new place seems to be like every other HOK park-too antiseptic.
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Yes, Eastern NC would be surprised to hear that they are Nats fans. Redskins, absolutely.
Raleigh-Durham, due to the unbelievable asininity of Time Warner, is the largest market in the country that has no "home team" broadcasts.
We're supposed to get the MASN broadcasts of the O's and Nats, but the dispute, which TWC has carried through at least three and maybe different lost appeals at different levels of courts, means no local games for us.
TWC is definitely a buncha jerks for doing this (they pulled similar moves when first the Yanks, then the Mets created their own networks in NY). But I know that MLB also has extremely arcane and outdated rules about blackouts and which teams get what territories. A lot of the strictures date back to the 40s and have been pretty much not updated ever since.
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Yes, Eastern NC would be surprised to hear that they are Nats fans. Redskins, absolutely.
Raleigh-Durham, due to the unbelievable asininity of Time Warner, is the largest market in the country that has no "home team" broadcasts.
We're supposed to get the MASN broadcasts of the O's and Nats, but the dispute, which TWC has carried through at least three and maybe different lost appeals at different levels of courts, means no local games for us.
TWC is definitely a buncha jerks for doing this (they pulled similar moves when first the Yanks, then the Mets created their own networks in NY). But I know that MLB also has extremely arcane and outdated rules about blackouts and which teams get what territories. A lot of the strictures date back to the 40s and have been pretty much not updated ever since.
The particular dispute in this case is unfortunately not particularly arcane. We have the "right" to see those games by virtue of living where we do. MASN wants to be on regular cable, TWC wants to put them on a pay-digital tier. They can't agree, even though they have an agreement in place. Sucks.
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The Dodgers just completed a three game sweep of the Mets. The Mets have huge problems right now. Their DL's a veritable MASH unit. And once again, the blame lays at the desk of Omar Minaya.
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I'm surprised the Cubs don't take up more of the map.
It is a pretty fair representation of Indiana, though: Reds, Cards, and Cub fans duking it out (with some White Sox fans up around Gary, the good hard-hat/steel mill types).
The Red Sox, Yankees, Braves, Cubs, and the Cardinals should take up a large portion of that map. Those are the teams in baseball with national followings.
It seems like the Sox fans, mainly the bandwagon Sox fans, tend to be the most obnoxious. I've seen Orioles games on television where at least half of the ballpark was taken over by Red Sox fans.
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I have one qualm with that Nike map, there is no way that Texas Rangers territory is that huge.
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I have one qualm with that Nike map, there is no way that Texas Rangers territory is that huge.
yup. you could lop off that entire area over where it says rangers and assign it to the cards and royals.
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Probably a ton of Yankees and Red Sox fans there, as well.
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Holy Moly, Cards pitching has allowed 2 runs in 5 games. Unbelievable. Bats starting to heat up a little in last two games as well.
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The Cards will definitely make a run in the NL Central. There really aren't enough superlatives for Dave Duncan. Looks like Rasmus is starting to pick it up. He's gonna be a great one.
The Mets have some huge problems with half their roster on the DL. And I have never seen a worse defensive team. Starting pitching after Santana is dicey, as well.
Oh well, maybe they'll get the bad baseball out of the way in May and June and make a run in September.
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The Cards will definitely make a run in the NL Central. There really aren't enough superlatives for Dave Duncan. Looks like Rasmus is starting to pick it up. He's gonna be a great one.
The Mets have some huge problems with half their roster on the DL. And I have never seen a worse defensive team. Starting pitching after Santana is dicey, as well.
Oh well, maybe they'll get the bad baseball out of the way in May and June and make a run in September.
I'm hoping for something akin to the 2006 regular season, minus the end of the season collapse. I'm sure you can relate.
The way the NL central looks so far, 85 wins could actually be enough.
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As there appear to be no "great teams" this year, I would say that any team (with a few exceptions) has a shot at getting to the playoffs and winning the World Series. The field is wide open.
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Holy Moly, Cards pitching has allowed 2 runs in 5 games. Unbelievable. Bats starting to heat up a little in last two games as well.
Well, the Cubs aren't exactly hitting these days.
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Holy Moly, Cards pitching has allowed 2 runs in 5 games. Unbelievable. Bats starting to heat up a little in last two games as well.
Well, the Cubs aren't exactly hitting these days.
Neither are the Royals. Not the past two days, at least.
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jbissell, do you think that the Cubs still have a good shot at trading for Jake Peavy? I think that's where he wants to go.
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jbissell, do you think that the Cubs still have a good shot at trading for Jake Peavy? I think that's where he wants to go.
The whole ownership thing is still in limbo right now and I just don't see them adding his big contract. Honestly, as much as I wouldn't mind adding Peavy to the rotation, that's pretty much the least of their worries right now. The bullpen is mostly a disaster and with Ramirez out, the offense is really struggling. I thought it was a big mistake when they traded DeRosa and I certainly haven't been proven wrong. Fontenot is a nice guy coming off the bench but I think it's pretty clear that he's not an everyday starter. Aaron Miles is garbage. Soto is either still playing hurt, going through a sophomore slump, or was a serious aberration last year (god I hope not). Lee is a shade of his former self but he's not going anywhere. Bradley has been a huge disappointment. A trade for a quality pen arm, preferably a lefty, is probably the most logical move for them to make right now since they're pretty much locked in on offense and just have to hope everyone gets their shit together.
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jbissell, do you think that the Cubs still have a good shot at trading for Jake Peavy? I think that's where he wants to go.
The whole ownership thing is still in limbo right now and I just don't see them adding his big contract. Honestly, as much as I wouldn't mind adding Peavy to the rotation, that's pretty much the least of their worries right now. The bullpen is mostly a disaster and with Ramirez out, the offense is really struggling. I thought it was a big mistake when they traded DeRosa and I certainly haven't been proven wrong. Fontenot is a nice guy coming off the bench but I think it's pretty clear that he's not an everyday starter. Aaron Miles is garbage. Soto is either still playing hurt, going through a sophomore slump, or was a serious aberration last year (god I hope not). Lee is a shade of his former self but he's not going anywhere. Bradley has been a huge disappointment. A trade for a quality pen arm, preferably a lefty, is probably the most logical move for them to make right now since they're pretty much locked in on offense and just have to hope everyone gets their shit together.
Have you read that supposed conversation that some dude had at a bar with a very troubled Aaron Miles?
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I read that. If that story is true, it just goes to show that while baseball players may make millions of dollars to play a child's game, they're human beings that have to deal with problems. Like the rest of us.
Also, Omir Santos is money.
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What is the FOT opinion on:
* Unbalanced schedule
* Interleague play
I have no strong opinion on the unbalanced schedule. It achieves a kind of parity through its very unfairness. It's the wrong kind of parity, though: you want more teams to be good, not bad teams making the playoffs. Anyway. But it seems like if you're going to have divisions an unbalanced schedule is not the end of the world. Why not just have the teams with the four best records in the league make the playoffs and get rid of divisions entirely? It's a structural unfairness but maybe a necessary one.
Unlike interleague play, where a lot of the "unfairness" that's complained about is just dumb scheduling. If there were a way to fix the scheduling to avoid unfairness, I don't see how there's room to complain. I don't see how you could do that, though, short of making every team in a division play all the same opponents, which is probably impossible. I really don't like the "boring matchups" argument against interleague. The matchups aren't boring to the fans of those teams, for one. It's inherently interesting for me to see a matchup between my team and a team they rarely play, even if that team is not that great. (Neither is mine, but still.) It only seems to be the baseball press that disdains "boring" matchups; fans of the respective teams don't seem to mind them. And the "World Series should be the only interleague game" argument has a weird purity to it, but baseball is entertainment. We'll never get to see some matchups that way. There's no reason to forbid for eternity certain games in devotion to some abstract principle.
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Interleague play was cool for a while. But I would rather scrap interleague play and see more intra-league, non intra-divisional games. However, at the same time, I can see the value in interleague play. I do like some of those rivalries. I would prefer MLB got rid of it, but if they want to keep it, it wouldn't bother me.
I definitely don't like the unbalanced schedule because it's killed lots of once-great rivalries, particularly in the National League. For example, Phillies-Pirates, Mets-Cardinals, Mets-Pirates, Dodgers-Cardinals, etc.
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jbissell, do you think that the Cubs still have a good shot at trading for Jake Peavy? I think that's where he wants to go.
The whole ownership thing is still in limbo right now and I just don't see them adding his big contract. Honestly, as much as I wouldn't mind adding Peavy to the rotation, that's pretty much the least of their worries right now. The bullpen is mostly a disaster and with Ramirez out, the offense is really struggling. I thought it was a big mistake when they traded DeRosa and I certainly haven't been proven wrong. Fontenot is a nice guy coming off the bench but I think it's pretty clear that he's not an everyday starter. Aaron Miles is garbage. Soto is either still playing hurt, going through a sophomore slump, or was a serious aberration last year (god I hope not). Lee is a shade of his former self but he's not going anywhere. Bradley has been a huge disappointment. A trade for a quality pen arm, preferably a lefty, is probably the most logical move for them to make right now since they're pretty much locked in on offense and just have to hope everyone gets their shit together.
Have you read that supposed conversation that some dude had at a bar with a very troubled Aaron Miles?
Hadn't heard about it but I just read it.
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Seven losses in a row for the Cubs. I wonder what Jim Hendry is going to do.
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Play Alfonso Soriano at second for the sake of my fantasy team. I traded for Weeks a few days before the injury after Kelly Johnson was relegated to part time status. Ben Zobrist is now my lone hope unless Johnson turns it around now that Infante is injured or Sweet Lou decides playing Soriano at second is actually more than a passing thought.
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Seven losses in a row for the Cubs. I wonder what Jim Hendry is going to do.
Not much he can do to help the offense right now. If the big guys aren't hitting, they aren't hitting, just have to hope they break out of it. This all just proves that Ramirez is the team MVP. The worst part of this slump is that the pitching has been pretty good the last few games (minus Heilman, of course, I hate him more and more each day). Hopefully a home series against the Pirates will get the bats going again but then they get the Dodgers so I'm not too optimistic.
Soriano moving back to 2nd would be interesting (especially for fantasy purposes) but it will only happen as an absolute desperation move.
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Seven losses in a row for the Cubs. I wonder what Jim Hendry is going to do.
Not much he can do to help the offense right now. If the big guys aren't hitting, they aren't hitting, just have to hope they break out of it. This all just proves that Ramirez is the team MVP. The worst part of this slump is that the pitching has been pretty good the last few games (minus Heilman, of course, I hate him more and more each day). Hopefully a home series against the Pirates will get the bats going again but then they get the Dodgers so I'm not too optimistic.
Soriano moving back to 2nd would be interesting (especially for fantasy purposes) but it will only happen as an absolute desperation move.
They are talking about it so that they can get Hoffpaur (sp?) in the line-up everyday. I saw it in USA today so it must be true!
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Seven losses in a row for the Cubs. I wonder what Jim Hendry is going to do.
The worst part of this slump is that the pitching has been pretty good the last few games (minus Heilman, of course, I hate him more and more each day).
Now you too can experience the frustration us Mets fans had when we had to watch him in the 7th and 8th innings. Heilman doesn't have great stuff, but I think his problems are more mental than physical. He just hasn't been quite the same since the 2006 NLCS. Plus, I still think he wants to be a starter.
I think the Cubs will be fine once they start to hit. Unfortunately, there will be a lot more competition for the division title as the Cards and Brewers are both legit.
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Seven losses in a row for the Cubs. I wonder what Jim Hendry is going to do.
Not much he can do to help the offense right now. If the big guys aren't hitting, they aren't hitting, just have to hope they break out of it. This all just proves that Ramirez is the team MVP. The worst part of this slump is that the pitching has been pretty good the last few games (minus Heilman, of course, I hate him more and more each day). Hopefully a home series against the Pirates will get the bats going again but then they get the Dodgers so I'm not too optimistic.
Soriano moving back to 2nd would be interesting (especially for fantasy purposes) but it will only happen as an absolute desperation move.
They are talking about it so that they can get Hoffpaur (sp?) in the line-up everyday. I saw it in USA today so it must be true!
Yeah, but I doubt it will happen because Micah isn't a very good OF. Apart from Fukudome, that would be a horrible fielding outfield.
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I am the worst baseball fan ever. I really half-ass it.
The worst thing is, I've been to 2 World Series games. The second one was pretty good (2006, Cards beat Tigers). The first one (Game 3 of what would be Boston's sweep of the Cards), not so much. Lots of better fans should have had those tickets...
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I am the worst baseball fan ever. I really half-ass it.
The worst thing is, I've been to 2 World Series games. The second one was pretty good (2006, Cards beat Tigers). The first one (Game 3 of what would be Boston's sweep of the Cards), not so much. Lots of better fans should have had those tickets...
Yea, like ME. My pops was at game 5 of the 2006 world series at least. U in Bloomington, IN?
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I am the worst baseball fan ever. I really half-ass it.
The worst thing is, I've been to 2 World Series games. The second one was pretty good (2006, Cards beat Tigers). The first one (Game 3 of what would be Boston's sweep of the Cards), not so much. Lots of better fans should have had those tickets...
I have a whole pile of playoff tickets for non-existent games that I've purchased over the last three seasons. One day I will stitch them all together and it will serve as my Tapestry of Hubris and Shame.
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I don't know how many of you make use of baseball-reference.com, but they just added the SABR Home Run Encyclopedia to their website. This means you can find out details about practically every homerun ever hit. I linked to an example below.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/event_hr.cgi?n1=clemero01&t=b (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/event_hr.cgi?n1=clemero01&t=b)
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Cubs win! Many thanks to the rain that prevented the pen from blowing it.
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Hey, if you have an iPhone the 2009 MLB app just added condensed games. Which is awesome!
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I am the worst baseball fan ever. I really half-ass it.
The worst thing is, I've been to 2 World Series games. The second one was pretty good (2006, Cards beat Tigers). The first one (Game 3 of what would be Boston's sweep of the Cards), not so much. Lots of better fans should have had those tickets...
Yea, like ME. My pops was at game 5 of the 2006 world series at least. U in Bloomington, IN?
Yes, IN. Not the Bloomington in IL. That Bloomington's got nothing on ours...
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Hey, if you have an iPhone the 2009 MLB app just added condensed games. Which is awesome!
I like my BlackBerry, but I kind of wish I had an iPhone for that app alone. That's really cool.
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I am the worst baseball fan ever. I really half-ass it.
The worst thing is, I've been to 2 World Series games. The second one was pretty good (2006, Cards beat Tigers). The first one (Game 3 of what would be Boston's sweep of the Cards), not so much. Lots of better fans should have had those tickets...
Yea, like ME. My pops was at game 5 of the 2006 world series at least. U in Bloomington, IN?
Yes, IN. Not the Bloomington in IL. That Bloomington's got nothing on ours...
Bloomington IN where the most remote Streetside Records location was.
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Congratulations to Antonio Bastardo on a stellar debut:
6 IP, 5 K, 1 ER, 4 H
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss153/penguino67/455228.jpg)
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Congratulations to Antonio Bastardo on a stellar debut:
6 IP, 5 K, 1 ER, 4 H
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss153/penguino67/455228.jpg)
I really love his name!
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Congratulations to Antonio Bastardo on a stellar debut:
6 IP, 5 K, 1 ER, 4 H
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss153/penguino67/455228.jpg)
I really love his name!
Who doesn't?
I wonder what his favorite sandwich is.
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This trade came out of nowhere:
http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090603&content_id=5126050&vkey=news_pit&fext=.jsp&c_id=pit (http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090603&content_id=5126050&vkey=news_pit&fext=.jsp&c_id=pit)
Looks like another slap in the face to a fan base that must be growing tired of them by now.
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McLouth must be stoked. He looked GOOD in that series against the cards.
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McLouth must be stoked. He looked GOOD in that series against the cards.
Braves are starting to look kinda good. If they could actually score some runs, they'd be dangerous.
Not sure what scares me more: the Braves or whatever virulent Super-Flu is running through the Mets clubhouse.
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Looks like the Braves might have a killer rotation in a couple years.
Today I'm hoping that Zambrano gets his head out of his ass.
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Today I'm hoping that Zambrano gets his head out of his ass.
My fantasy team and I share that hope.
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I think the McLouth trade works out pretty well for both teams. Jordan Schafer has been a disappointment for the Braves, thus far, so they get some one with power and decent enough defensive ability to play the outfield. Plus, they didn't have to trade either Tommy Hanson or Jason Heyward. The Pirates were going nowhere with Nate McLouth and they're going nowhere without Nate McLouth. So why not get something for the future? The Pirates minor league system is deficient in pitching and they addressed those deficiencies to an extent in getting Jeff Locke and Charlie Morton. Gorkys Hernandez profiles as a potential lead-off hitter and above average defensive CF.
The fans in Pittsburgh are upset because this looks like another salary dump a la Aramis Ramirez. And the fans are tired of losing. But I agree with Neal Huntington, mediocrity should not be the ultimate goal for this team. If I were a Pirates fan, I would rather deal with a few more years of bad baseball, if it meant that I could have a legitimate contender in the few years. Unlike the last GM, Neal Huntington actually knows what he is doing. So I think that this is a solid baseball move.
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Tony LaRussa is suing Twitter.
LOL.
I hate that guy so much.
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I agree in re McClouth, as far as trying to build for the future is concerned. But I wonder if they couldn't do what the Indians did in the 90s: lock up arbitration/free agency years with long term contracts for their young stars so they have something to build on. Otherwise, they pretty much have to dump everyone who gets too old/expensive.
Granted, they don't really have any young stars. But they could have done something like that with Aramis Ramirez, Jason Bay, etc.
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I agree in re McClouth, as far as trying to build for the future is concerned. But I wonder if they couldn't do what the Indians did in the 90s: lock up arbitration/free agency years with long term contracts for their young stars so they have something to build on. Otherwise, they pretty much have to dump everyone who gets too old/expensive.
Granted, they don't really have any young stars. But they could have done something like that with Aramis Ramirez, Jason Bay, etc.
I will always love the Pirates for giving the Cubs a cornerstone 3B (plus Lofton and Simon) for a couple failed prospects.
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The Ramirez trade was inexcusable. Especially considering what they got in return, which essentially amounted to a box of trinkets. But that was a pure salary dump. In fact, people close to the situation say that had the Pirates not made that deal, they would have been unable to make payroll.
The problem with the Bonifay/Littlefield administration was that they poorly allocated their limited financial resources. They did attempt to sign some of their so-called "young talent," and it blew up in their faces. Case in point, they gave $60 million to Jason Kendall, a glorified singles hitter. In the end, it turned out to be a monumentally stupid decision. A decision that was driven more by PR than sound baseball rationale.
That being said, there was no way the Pirates would have been able to afford Jason Bay. And there was no way that he was going to stay here, regardless of the money they offered him. The Pirates either don't have or are completely unwilling to spend huge sums of money. Besides, the Pirates really don't have anyone worth signing to a long-term deal. In the future, McCutchen, Alvarez, etc. may warrant that kind of outlay. But right now, they don't have any player on the order of Manny Ramirez, Albert Belle, or Jim Thome.
Simply put, the Pirates, over the past 17 years, have been the worst run franchise in professional sports. There's not enough space here to list the litany of poor personnel and monetary decisions that the Pirates have made. Before Neal Huntington took over, the farm system was barren and it's still barren. It's conceivable that they could have ended up with players like B.J. Upton, Tim Lincecum, Matt Wieters, and Ryan Howard. Instead, they ended up with Bryan Bullington, Brad Lincoln, Daniel Moskos, Matt Peterson, and Ty Wigginton. This is why they're currently in such a decrepit state. And it's also why fans are so distrustful of management.
Apologies for the long post.
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The Pirates either don't have or are completely unwilling to spend huge sums of money.
You know it's bad when the highest-paid player in franchise history is Matt Morris (he lasted half a season, right?).
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Today I'm hoping that Zambrano gets his head out of his ass.
That clown is just about to overtake Chipper Jones as the biggest tool in baseball.
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Tony LaRussa is suing Twitter.
LOL.
I hate that guy so much.
Obviously. That would explain why you can't empathize with someone who's pissed off about someone posing as him besmirching two of his players that have died.
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Tony LaRussa is suing Twitter.
LOL.
I hate that guy so much.
Obviously. That would explain why you can't empathize with someone who's pissed off about someone posing as him besmirching two of his players that have died.
All I read was that he was mad someone was pretending to be him, didn't realize there were mocking comments about Hancock (was Kile the other?), in which case, obviously uncalled for.
EDIT: Yeah, I just went back and read the ESPN article and they had added a bunch of details since I first read it and I certainly can't blame him. Darryl Kile was actually a relative of mine (though a few steps removed).
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Top 5 Worst Contracts in Pittsburgh Pirates History (as selected by me):
#5: Derek Bell-2 Years, $9 Million
Reason: Hits .173 in 2001, goes into "Operation Shutdown" and quits during Spring Training 2002. Pirates pay entire $4.5 million for him not to play. Bell never plays again and is later arrested for cocaine possession.
#4: Kevin Young-4 Years, $24 million
Reason: Signs richest contract in franchise history in 1999. Has a solid year in 1999 (26 HR, 106 RBI). But production declines considerably for the remainder of the contract, before he bottoms out with a whopping .624 OPS in 2003.
#3: Matt Morris-3 Years, $27 million (Inherited contract from Giants)
Reason: In a stunning move, Dave Littlefield attempts to save his job by obtaining the services of Giants pitcher Matt Morris. San Francisco Giants general manager Brian Sabean is pleasantly surprised when the Pirates not only agree to pay all of Morris' contract, something that no other team was willing to do, but also send back OF Rajai Davis in return. Morris starts off the 2008 season 0-4 with 9.68 ERA and the Pirates release him on April 27. Morris is thrilled because he gets paid $10 million for the privilege of not having to pitch for the Pirates.
#2: Pat Meares-4 Years, $15 million
Reason: Following a good 1998 season with the Twins (9 HR, 70 RBI), the Pirates sign Pat Meares for the bargain price of $1.5 million. For reasons unbeknownst, then Pirates GM Cam Bonifay subsequently re-signs Meares to a 4 year, $15 million contract. Meares only plays 21 games for the Pirates in 1999 because of a hand injury. Meares then underwent surgery to repair the injury and returned for the 2000 season. Unfortunately, when he returned, he bore little resemblance to the mediocre player of year's past. In 2001, he played a scant 86 games and only had 4 HR, 25 RBI, and a .548 OPS. The Pirates then placed Meares on the DL for entire 2002 season. Meares filed a grievance against the Pirates, claiming that he was healthy enough to play and demanded his release. Meares dropped the grievance in October of 2002 and never played again. In the end the Pirates paid $15 million for a player who averaged 80 games per season and didn't produce even when he played.
#1: Jason Kendall-6 Years, $60 Million
Reason: $10 million for a hitter with 73 HR and a .755 career OPS. ;D Only the Pirates.
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I had forgotten about the joys of Derek Bell.
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Derek Bell was the Pirates' version of Garry Templeton. In fact, Pittsburgh newspaper columnist Mark Madden once wrote of Mr. Bell:
"Derek Bell becomes the ultimate Pirate: Lives on a boat and steals money."
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They're about to sweep the Mets, so you've got that going for you.
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Tony LaRussa is suing Twitter.
LOL.
I hate that guy so much.
Obviously. That would explain why you can't empathize with someone who's pissed off about someone posing as him besmirching two of his players that have died.
All I read was that he was mad someone was pretending to be him, didn't realize there were mocking comments about Hancock (was Kile the other?), in which case, obviously uncalled for.
EDIT: Yeah, I just went back and read the ESPN article and they had added a bunch of details since I first read it and I certainly can't blame him. Darryl Kile was actually a relative of mine (though a few steps removed).
I assume it was Kile.
Easiest game on this thread: say something negative about anyone in the Cardinals organization and watch Hugman go into a tizzy. Except K. Greene. I myself have besmirched him in public (well, on my facebook page). Now that he's on the DL for "social anxiety disorder" I feel bad for him.
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I'm indifferent to the Pirates. I watch them more for laughs than anything else. But I really don't care what they do anymore. Through their blatant incompetence, the Pirates have lost an entire generation of fans, myself included. People go to Pirates games nowadays for any number of reasons besides baseball.
Am I being too hard on them? Yeah. But they deserve my ridicule.
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I watched the Giants feed on mlb extra innings last week. I didn't catch their names or who they were, but their announcers were awesome. I laughed out loud a few times. Going back to Dan McLaughlin and Al Hrabosky (the cards guys) has been nearly unbearable. Dan especially.
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Easiest game on this thread: say something negative about anyone in the Cardinals organization and watch Hugman go into a tizzy. Except K. Greene. I myself have besmirched him in public (well, on my facebook page). Now that he's on the DL for "social anxiety disorder" I feel bad for him.
Pujols is the best hitter in baseball. Franklin has become a very good closer. Carpenter is great, when healthy. I still don't like LaRussa, although I disliked him before he came to the Cards. Maybe it's the hair.
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I think the Giants TV broadcasters are Duane Kuiper and Mike Krukow.
Is John Rooney still doing radio for the Cards? He's great.
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By the way, my hatred of Zambrano has nothing to do, really, with him being a Cub, although it helps. It started when he came out last year(?) and declared that he was going to win the Cy Young.
Another Cub I hate is Soriano, but that's strictly the kind of hate born out of respect for what he does to your team. It's the same hatred I have for Carlos Beltran (although Wainwright helped alleviate some of that for me in '06) I'm sure Ramirez will be in that category when he comes back as well.
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I think the Giants TV broadcasters are Duane Kuiper and Mike Krukow.
Is John Rooney still doing radio for the Cards? He's great.
I don't know. The next time I watch live (which is almost never) I'll have to try to stream the radio coverage. Although that's usually not in synch either.
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By the way, my hatred of Zambrano has nothing to do, really, with him being a Cub, although it helps. It started when he came out last year(?) and declared that he was going to win the Cy Young.
Another Cub I hate is Soriano, but that's strictly the kind of hate born out of respect for what he does to your team. It's the same hatred I have for Carlos Beltran (although Wainwright helped alleviate some of that for me in '06) I'm sure Ramirez will be in that category when he comes back as well.
I'm traditionally a Z apologist but it's getting harder and harder. Seeing his no-hitter in person last year is probably going to be the best baseball event I'll ever attend.
I've never warmed to Soriano. Sure, he hits homers and he's not as bad a defender as people think (although I cringe every time he does the hop), but every time I see him swing at a pitch that bounces in front of the plate in a clutch situation I lose it.
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My all-time favorite Cub is Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes. The rest of the Cubs I neither love nor hate.
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My all-time favorite Cub is Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes. The rest of the Cubs I neither love nor hate.
I remember that 3 homer Opening Day off Doc Gooden like it was yesterday. It blew me away when I heard he has 452 career HR in Japan, all-time leader for foreign-born players. Of course he's just one in a long line of promising CF that have tanked for the Cubs.
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With the Cubs, I miss Shawon Dunston. The joke was 'he needs another year to develop'. It went on for years. I'm just glad his manager, that 'Popeye' guy, believed in him. We should all be so lucky.
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On my DVR, I have a Cubs-Pirates game from 1991 that I recorded off the MLB Network. Check out the starting lineups:
Cubs:
CF-Jerome Walton
2B-Ryne Sandberg
1B-Mark Grace
LF-George Bell
RF-Andre Dawson
SS-Shawon Dunston
3B-Gary Scott
C-Erik Pappas
P-Mike Harkey
Pirates:
1B-Orlando Merced
SS-Jay Bell
CF-Andy Van Slyke
RF-Bobby Bonilla
LF-Barry Bonds
3B-Jeff King
C-Mike Lavalliere
2B-Jose Lind
P-Randy Tomlin
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Tony LaRussa is suing Twitter.
LOL.
I hate that guy so much.
Obviously. That would explain why you can't empathize with someone who's pissed off about someone posing as him besmirching two of his players that have died.
All I read was that he was mad someone was pretending to be him, didn't realize there were mocking comments about Hancock (was Kile the other?), in which case, obviously uncalled for.
EDIT: Yeah, I just went back and read the ESPN article and they had added a bunch of details since I first read it and I certainly can't blame him. Darryl Kile was actually a relative of mine (though a few steps removed).
I emphasize with him, but the most he can possibly get out of Twitter is the IP address of whoever set up the account. Internet hosts aren't liable for crap their users do (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/230.html). Anyway, I bet they settle and I bet Twitter sets up some kind of fake-celebrity-detection program.
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Incidentally, my favorite Pirate of recent vintage, is Jose Lind. It takes lots of "guts" to be caught driving without your pants on.
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Tony LaRussa is suing Twitter.
LOL.
I hate that guy so much.
Obviously. That would explain why you can't empathize with someone who's pissed off about someone posing as him besmirching two of his players that have died.
All I read was that he was mad someone was pretending to be him, didn't realize there were mocking comments about Hancock (was Kile the other?), in which case, obviously uncalled for.
EDIT: Yeah, I just went back and read the ESPN article and they had added a bunch of details since I first read it and I certainly can't blame him. Darryl Kile was actually a relative of mine (though a few steps removed).
I emphasize with him, but the most he can possibly get out of Twitter is the IP address of whoever set up the account. Internet hosts aren't liable for crap their users do (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/230.html). Anyway, I bet they settle and I bet Twitter sets up some kind of fake-celebrity-detection program.
oh, it's an overreaction for sure. all I'm saying is it's an understandable overreaction considering the joke having such a personal emotional impact as it would on Tony.
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One of my favorite Cubs line-ups ever! I made the trip up to Chicago to see them often back then.
On my DVR, I have a Cubs-Pirates game from 1991 that I recorded off the MLB Network. Check out the starting lineups:
Cubs:
CF-Jerome Walton
2B-Ryne Sandberg
1B-Mark Grace
LF-George Bell
RF-Andre Dawson
SS-Shawon Dunston
3B-Gary Scott
C-Erik Pappas
P-Mike Harkey
Pirates:
1B-Orlando Merced
SS-Jay Bell
CF-Andy Van Slyke
RF-Bobby Bonilla
LF-Barry Bonds
3B-Jeff King
C-Mike Lavalliere
2B-Jose Lind
P-Randy Tomlin
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Seriously though, that lineup is actually pretty good. It seems like the pitching (aside from Greg Maddux) was a weak spot on the '91 Cubs, as they only finished 77-83.
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Seriously though, that lineup is actually pretty good. It seems like the pitching (aside from Greg Maddux) was a weak spot on the '91 Cubs, as they only finished 77-83.
Those were the Cubs stars of my time: Dawson, Grace, Sandberg (Maddux too, before he bailed to go to the Braves and win and stuff).
But yeah, they didn't really pull it together.
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Well, I'm 25 and old enough to remember when the Pirates actually fielded a competitive team. Bonds, Bonilla, Van Slyke, Drabek, Smiley, etc. Damn it! They should have gone to at least one World Series.
There's a reason why Francisco Cabrera is probably the most hated man in the history of Pittsburgh sports.
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Well, I'm 25 and old enough to remember when the Pirates actually fielded a competitive team. Bonds, Bonilla, Van Slyke, Drabek, Smiley, etc. Damn it! They should have gone to at least one World Series.
There's a reason why Francisco Cabrera is probably the most hated man in the history of Pittsburgh sports.
C'mon, give Sid Bream a little love. There's no way in hell he should've beat that throw.
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Well, I'm 25 and old enough to remember when the Pirates actually fielded a competitive team. Bonds, Bonilla, Van Slyke, Drabek, Smiley, etc. Damn it! They should have gone to at least one World Series.
There's a reason why Francisco Cabrera is probably the most hated man in the history of Pittsburgh sports.
C'mon, give Sid Bream a little love. There's no way in hell he should've beat that throw.
That is indeed true. However, one could also make the argument (not that I agree with it, mind you) that Barry Bonds should have thrown Sid Bream out. I mean Sid Bream wasn't exactly Otis Nixon or Gary Redus (or Jerome Walton) on the basepaths.
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With the Cubs, I miss Shawon Dunston. The joke was 'he needs another year to develop'. It went on for years. I'm just glad his manager, that 'Popeye' guy, believed in him. We should all be so lucky.
I'll forever remember Shawon Dunston for fouling off a bazillion pitches, then finally singling in the bottom of the 15th inning of game 5 of the 1999 NLCS. Thus enabling The Grand Slam Single. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_Single)
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Well, I'm 25 and old enough to remember when the Pirates actually fielded a competitive team. Bonds, Bonilla, Van Slyke, Drabek, Smiley, etc. Damn it! They should have gone to at least one World Series.
There's a reason why Francisco Cabrera is probably the most hated man in the history of Pittsburgh sports.
C'mon, give Sid Bream a little love. There's no way in hell he should've beat that throw.
That is indeed true. However, one could also make the argument (not that I agree with it, mind you) that Barry Bonds should have thrown Sid Bream out. I mean Sid Bream wasn't exactly Otis Nixon or Gary Redus (or Jerome WaltonStephen Hawking) on the basepaths.
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TRG, you were right about the Cards offense. I'm sorry I even tried to argue. They've been so bad at times that they've actually made Pujols a worse hitter. We'll see if De Rosa comes to town and if it does any good.
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The Cards offense isn't that bad. They're middle of the pack in most categories. But they have a chance to get better. The problem is that they're not getting any production out of the left side of their infield, third base specifically. The rest of the starting lineup is pretty good. Mark DeRosa is exactly what they need. Of course, there are a number of teams that could use Mark DeRosa, so the Cards are going to have to pay up.
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The Cards offense isn't that bad. They're middle of the pack in most categories. But they have a chance to get better. The problem is that they're not getting any production out of the left side of their infield, third base specifically. The rest of the starting lineup is pretty good. Mark DeRosa is exactly what they need. Of course, there are a number of teams that could use Mark DeRosa, so the Cards are going to have to pay up.
I was at the Cubs-Reds game on Sat. and after watching Fontenot make 2 costly errors at 3rd, the thought of DeRosa ending up on the Cards makes me ill.
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The Cards offense isn't that bad. They're middle of the pack in most categories. But they have a chance to get better. The problem is that they're not getting any production out of the left side of their infield, third base specifically. The rest of the starting lineup is pretty good. Mark DeRosa is exactly what they need. Of course, there are a number of teams that could use Mark DeRosa, so the Cards are going to have to pay up.
I was at the Cubs-Reds game on Sat. and after watching Fontenot make 2 costly errors at 3rd, the thought of DeRosa ending up on the Cards makes me ill.
You think the Cubs would be interested in either Jack Wilson or Freddy Sanchez? Sanchez could play 2B and would be a nice bat to have in the lineup. Wilson would be a good backup middle infielder.
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The Cards offense isn't that bad. They're middle of the pack in most categories. But they have a chance to get better. The problem is that they're not getting any production out of the left side of their infield, third base specifically. The rest of the starting lineup is pretty good. Mark DeRosa is exactly what they need. Of course, there are a number of teams that could use Mark DeRosa, so the Cards are going to have to pay up.
Well here's hoping that the job the pitching staff (starters AND bullpen) have done (barring this last horrendous series with the Rockies) will inspire the organization to pony up.
Now that I've given the pitching staff props, prepare for them to crumble.
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The Cards offense isn't that bad. They're middle of the pack in most categories. But they have a chance to get better. The problem is that they're not getting any production out of the left side of their infield, third base specifically. The rest of the starting lineup is pretty good. Mark DeRosa is exactly what they need. Of course, there are a number of teams that could use Mark DeRosa, so the Cards are going to have to pay up.
I was at the Cubs-Reds game on Sat. and after watching Fontenot make 2 costly errors at 3rd, the thought of DeRosa ending up on the Cards makes me ill.
You think the Cubs would be interested in either Jack Wilson or Freddy Sanchez? Sanchez could play 2B and would be a nice bat to have in the lineup. Wilson would be a good backup middle infielder.
Yeah, I'm all for them getting Sanchez. Never been a fan of Wilson. Ideally they'd get someone who can actually field SS and slide Theriot over to 2B, leaving Fontenot as a platoon guy, since he's really not an everyday player. Of course, finding someone to take Soriano would be the best but that's never going to happen.
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The Cards offense isn't that bad. They're middle of the pack in most categories. But they have a chance to get better. The problem is that they're not getting any production out of the left side of their infield, third base specifically. The rest of the starting lineup is pretty good. Mark DeRosa is exactly what they need. Of course, there are a number of teams that could use Mark DeRosa, so the Cards are going to have to pay up.
I was at the Cubs-Reds game on Sat. and after watching Fontenot make 2 costly errors at 3rd, the thought of DeRosa ending up on the Cards makes me ill.
You think the Cubs would be interested in either Jack Wilson or Freddy Sanchez? Sanchez could play 2B and would be a nice bat to have in the lineup. Wilson would be a good backup middle infielder.
Yeah, I'm all for them getting Sanchez. Never been a fan of Wilson. Ideally they'd get someone who can actually field SS and slide Theriot over to 2B, leaving Fontenot as a platoon guy, since he's really not an everyday player. Of course, finding someone to take Soriano would be the best but that's never going to happen.
Sanchez, Ad. LaRoche, and Jack Wilson should all be sent packing by the trade deadline. The main reason why the Pirates are in their current predicament is because they never fully committed to rebuilding. They always did it halfway.
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Hey guys, this National League Flyov... I mean... Central talk is great and all, but I feel obligated to chime in on The Only Series That Matters taking place at Fenway Park this week between the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees.
Three arduous five hour long contests of both teams working the count, intentional walks, intentional hits by pitches and other 'message sending', fans with obnoxious accents, chants that end in 'suck', bloated salaries and even more bloated formerly great sluggers.
Admit it. You love it.
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Hey guys, this National League Flyov... I mean... Central talk is great and all, but I feel obligated to chime in on The Only Series That Matters taking place at Fenway Park this week between the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees.
Three arduous five hour long contests of both teams working the count, intentional walks, intentional hits by pitches and other 'message sending', fans with obnoxious accents, chants that end in 'suck', bloated salaries and even more bloated formerly great sluggers.
Admit it. You love it.
I guess I'll take that over the Twins having some kind of soul-blackening existential crises every time they put runners on base. (While batting and while pitching.)
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Hey guys, this National League Flyov... I mean... Central talk is great and all, but I feel obligated to chime in on The Only Series That Matters taking place at Fenway Park this week between the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees.
Three arduous five hour long contests of both teams working the count, intentional walks, intentional hits by pitches and other 'message sending', fans with obnoxious accents, chants that end in 'suck', bloated salaries and even more bloated formerly great sluggers.
Admit it. You love it.
yea, that would have been a thousand times more fun to watch than watching the rockies outscore the cardinals 33-9 over four games. i should be watching my number two team a little more. GO DOYERS!
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Hey guys, this National League Flyov... I mean... Central talk is great and all, but I feel obligated to chime in on The Only Series That Matters taking place at Fenway Park this week between the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees.
Three arduous five hour long contests of both teams working the count, intentional walks, intentional hits by pitches and other 'message sending', fans with obnoxious accents, chants that end in 'suck', bloated salaries and even more bloated formerly great sluggers.
Admit it. You love it.
This message brought to you by ESPN: We tell you what you want to watch! Coming up next, 24-hour coverage of Brett Favre dicking everyone around yet again!
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Yankees-Red Sox is played out. I'd much rather watch the Mets vs. Phillies.
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Dodgers Phillies was probably a peek at the NL finals.
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Dodgers Phillies was probably a peek at the NL finals.
Probably so. In a seven game series, I would pick the Dodgers in six. The reason being that the Phils don't have enough quality pitching beyond Hamels.
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Dodgers Phillies was probably a peek at the NL finals.
Probably so. In a seven game series, I would pick the Dodgers in six. The reason being that the Phils don't have enough quality pitching beyond Hamels.
But I think they may trade for Haren, which will make them lights-out.
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Dodgers Phillies was probably a peek at the NL finals.
Probably so. In a seven game series, I would pick the Dodgers in six. The reason being that the Phils don't have enough quality pitching beyond Hamels.
But I think they may trade for Haren, which will make them lights-out.
If they get Haren, they would be lights out. Jason Donald, Carlos Carrasco, and Michael Taylor for Dan Haren? That's about what it would cost.
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Some randumb thoughts:
Does the strike zone seem really low this year?
Boy, that Andre Ethier sure is the opportunist, isn't he?
Is there any bigger monument to failure (and waste) than an empty big league ballpark?
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you guys, Al Hrabosky drives me insane. is he watching the same game I am?
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Finally, Twins are on. I don't have cable so I just watch the Internet version of the play-by-play. These west coast games are late.
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And the Yankees drop their 8th consecutive game to the Red Sox. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I don't really like either team, but the Red Sox are the lesser of two evils.
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I disagree, I enjoy watching the Yankees much more than the Red Sox. I don't root for either team but the Yankees have about 5 or 6 players I enjoy watching while the Red Sox have maybe 2 right now.
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Not a good night for Antonio Bastardo:
1.0 IP, 3 H, 5 R, 4 ER, 1 K, 3 BB, 1 HR
However, he was facing the Red Sox and that is not an easy task for a pitcher making only his third career ML start.
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Some randumb thoughts:
Does the strike zone seem really low this year?
Boy, that Andre Ethier sure is the opportunist, isn't he?
Is there any bigger monument to failure (and waste) than an empty big league ballpark?
1. I guess. But the strike zone has always seemed inconsistent to me.
2. Andre Ethier is a very good player. Highway robbery by the Dodgers to get Ethier for Milton Bradley and Antonio Perez.
3. No there isn't. PNC Park and Nationals Park are huge monuments to failure. But there is perhaps no greater monument to failure than Dolphins Stadium:
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1044/1379723371_60a1aa76fa.jpg)
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I am sort of frightened that the Rockies have won 10 in a row. I might have to switch my allegiance to the Nats.
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What's even more frightening is that the Rockies have won 10 in a row despite being managed by Jim Tracy.
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Dolphin Stadium was the exact inspiration for that thought.
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What's even more frightening is that the Rockies have won 10 in a row despite being managed by Jim Tracy.
I think Jim Tracy, for now, hasn't done too much douchey stuff. Clint Hurdle was terrible. The Rockies just fucking hated him. (http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_12479938) I was afraid Tracy was overmanaging against the Brewers in the 7th inning a few games ago where he went through 4 pitchers in the inning. But it worked.
I don't think a good manager can make a bad team good, or that a bad manager can make a good team bad. But a bad manager can definitely make a mediocre team awful. I think that's where the Rockies were. They're nowhere near the Dodgers, of course, but they ought to be competitive with the rest of the NL West. That they weren't even winning at home this season.
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Jim Tracy will wear out his welcome soon enough. At least, he didn't bring Jim Colborn along with him. Colborn was/is a complete tool, he actually went after a beat reporter with a baseball bat.
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iPhone app to start streaming live games.
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2 of the 104 names of players who tested positive for PED's have come out now. When are we going to find out the other 102 names? Moreover, does anyone care about those names?
Thoughts?
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2 of the 104 names of players who tested positive for PED's have come out now. When are we going to find out the other 102 names? Moreover, does anyone care about those names?
Thoughts?
I agree with Ozzie Guillen in that it's really bad for baseball to have to answer to another name every other month. But, unless a 3rd party source leaks all the names, the MLB can't do anything about it because there's a confidentiality agreement. I would hope that they are working with players who tested positive to try to rectify that- Be lumped with 100 other players now or live in fear until your own personal day in the headlines comes.
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a interesting article on why Raul Ibanez might "not" be using PED this season:
http://www.thegoodphight.com/2009/6/12/907119/raul-ibanez-and-the-juice-another (http://www.thegoodphight.com/2009/6/12/907119/raul-ibanez-and-the-juice-another)
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Good find, Trotskie. Thanks.
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is the category of PED's broader than banned substances then? Otherwise, why aren't there 102 more suspensions being handed out?
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is the category of PED's broader than banned substances then? Otherwise, why aren't there 102 more suspensions being handed out?
Because the testing was supposed to be anonymous, to gauge the level of use in the majors at the time. The names shouldn't be coming out to begin with.
I wonder why the hell the test results weren't just burned, deleted, etc. Obviously, no good could come of names getting out there, and everyone wondering why Sammy Sosa, A-Rod et al. were never suspended.
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I wonder why the hell the test results weren't just burned, deleted, etc. Obviously, no good could come of names getting out there, and everyone wondering why Sammy Sosa, A-Rod et al. were never suspended.
I believe the player's union pulled a choke job.
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Okay, I obviously don't read enough. Does this have nothing to do with Manny Ramirez? I'm so dumb.
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I was absolutely shocked to hear Sosa's name linked to a positive PED test.
All kidding aside, the homer battle with McGwire was fun to watch and nothing will ever change that for me.
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Okay, I obviously don't read enough. Does this have nothing to do with Manny Ramirez? I'm so dumb.
Different thing. Manny got caught with a female hormone that you take to counteract the effects of PEDs.
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I wonder why the hell the test results weren't just burned, deleted, etc. Obviously, no good could come of names getting out there, and everyone wondering why Sammy Sosa, A-Rod et al. were never suspended.
I believe the player's union pulled a choke job.
Absolutely correct. All copies of that list should have been destroyed immediately. It's truly amazing that for as smart as Donald Fehr and many of the reps at the MLBPA are, they completely lacked foresight and common sense on this matter.
With that being said, I don't feel sorry for the players. They were stupid enough to use PED's and stupid enough to get caught. Furthermore, Donald Fehr and Gene Orza did nothing to address the issue and, in fact, strongly resisted any attempts to implement a strict drug testing policy in the CBA. Of course, now MLB does have a tougher drug testing policy, but the damage has already been done to the reputation of the MLBPA and MLB.
Yesno, you have a law degree, are there any courses of legal action that the players can pursue because this info was leaked?
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Okay, I obviously don't read enough. Does this have nothing to do with Manny Ramirez? I'm so dumb.
Different thing. Manny got caught with a female hormone that you take to counteract the effects of PEDs.
i am qualified to comment on nothing more than how cute albert pujols' facial hair is looking this week. :(
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The Cards are only one game back of the lead in the NL Central.
They just need one more player:
(http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss153/penguino67/derosa.jpg)
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Yesno, you have a law degree, are there any courses of legal action that the players can pursue because this info was leaked?
You can't have libel, if the information is true. There is indeed a tort for public disclosure of private facts, but newsworthiness (and other things applicable here) is a defense. So there's probably not a claim for the leaking itself, but only possibly against the people who were supposed to safeguard the information.
Maybe someone has some kind of breach of contract claim against the people who were supposed to keep it secret. Also, the players might be able to sue the union for negligence; i.e. the union had a duty to the players which it breached, causing them injury.
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Yesno, you have a law degree, are there any courses of legal action that the players can pursue because this info was leaked?
You can't have libel, if the information is true. There is indeed a tort for public disclosure of private facts, but newsworthiness (and other things applicable here) is a defense. So there's probably not a claim for the leaking itself, but only possibly against the people who were supposed to safeguard the information.
Maybe someone has some kind of breach of contract claim against the people who were supposed to keep it secret. Also, the players might be able to sue the union for negligence; i.e. the union had a duty to the players which it breached, causing them injury.
So, in other words, their legal options are limited. I suppose that if one could pinpoint the source of the leaked information, then there could be more severe repercussions.
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Yeah, a lot depends on whether the person who leaked the information had any sort of legal duty to the players, by contract or because of some special relationship. I'm pretty sure it's a government source, the government having gotten a hold of the list legally. Maybe there's some sort of way to recover against government employees who leak information obtained in a police raid or something; I have no idea.
Practically speaking, though, any lawsuit would be an admission by the players that they were doping. Players who we already know did it would look like bigger douches for suing people for telling the truth, even if there was some legal wrong against them. And players who we don't know did it can't sue if their information hasn't leaked. So basically, they're all fucked.
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That was an excellent summation of the issue, yesno. They are fucked.
What a shame.
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I watched Zack Greinke throw literally one pitch so far this eve, and it was the filthiest cutter I've seen in recent memory. It looked like a whiffle ball pitch.
Also, Cardinals relief pitcher Jason Motte smells his hat when he takes the field, talks to his glove and ocd's out on the baselines as he walks to the dugout.
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The Phillies blew another game tonight and are now 13-21 at home. And that back-end of the bullpen is a mess without Brad Lidge. They need to get some starting pitching in order to solidify a pretty anemic rotation (beyond Hamels, of course).
I don't even want to get started on the Mets.
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The Phillies blew another game tonight and are now 13-21 at home. And that back-end of the bullpen is a mess without Brad Lidge. They need to get some starting pitching in order to solidify a pretty anemic rotation (beyond Hamels, of course).
I don't even want to get started on the Mets.
The one bright spot about the Mets is that most of their woes are injury-related, and most (if not all) of those guys (Reyes, Delgado, Maine, Ollie Perez) will return, whereas the Phillies will definitely need to make some trades to bolster their rotation and bullpen.
Of course, now Beltran's gonna go for an MRI tomorrow. If he goes on the DL, that pretty much removes any viable power threat they have.
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I think the Mets will go on a run at some point, where they reel off, say, 15 of 20 games. They have performed well, given the injuries.
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I'm hoping that the Cubs' offense is starting to turn it around. Lee's had a sudden burst of power and I really hope it lasts.
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I think the Mets will go on a run at some point, where they reel off, say, 15 of 20 games. They have performed well, given the injuries.
I would expect that too. Hopefully, they're not 10 games out by that point.
What's infuriating is that they've lost a ton of games they could easily have won. And even beyond the injuries, they keep finding new ways to lose. Santana has a horrible outing. Then the other starters do well but K-rod melts down. Then Santana rebounds but the bats go silent, and then the rest of the bullpen melts down. They're extremely lucky to be only 2 games back--and at the same time, they could also easily be in first place if they hadn't assed away about five easily winnable games.
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Card Vs. Pondscum, er, Mets. Let's get it on.
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As they are currently constituted, the Mets are an 85-88 win team. Mediocre pitching beyond Santana and a mediocre lineup. That being said, the NL is atrocious this year and the Mets are still in it.
And is there any doubt that Pujols is the NL MVP this year? He is carrying them right now.
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As they are currently constituted, the Mets are an 85-88 win team. Mediocre pitching beyond Santana and a mediocre lineup. That being said, the NL is atrocious this year and the Mets are still in it.
And is there any doubt that Pujols is the NL MVP this year? He is carrying them right now.
There's no doubt about that, but to say he's carrying them is a little bit of an exaggeration, if a very small one. Offensively, yes ,but for the most part, pitching has been pretty good. Plus, there's a new slugger in St. Louis, and his name is Khalil Greene. ;)
(he hit a homer in each of the last three games)
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I meant to say that he's been carrying them offensively.
The Cardinals have hit 76 HR this season. Albert Pujols has hit 26 of those, or roughly 34%. He has a 1.169 OPS. That's ridiculous.
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Just when things couldn't get any worse, Carlos BEL-TRON is now on the 15 day DL.
If they Mets didn't have bad luck, they wouldn't have any luck at all.
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http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-ticketprices.html
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As they are currently constituted, the Mets are an 85-88 win team. Mediocre pitching beyond Santana and a mediocre lineup. That being said, the NL is atrocious this year and the Mets are still in it.
And is there any doubt that Pujols is the NL MVP this year? He is carrying them right now.
In the absence of Beltran, calling their lineup mediocre is being kind. And the Phillies ain't gonna keep losing forever. I guess they're still in it, but I wouldn't be shocked to see that change 2 weeks from now.
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http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-ticketprices.html
it's criminal to not have any tickets for under 10 bucks. Dodgers tickets went up after acquiring Manny, but they still have $9 tickets.
For shame, Philadelphia and St. Louis. They won't spend any money but they expect the fans to. Because they will.
Now, I wanna go to Houston and sit behind home plate.
Anyway, great game tonight between the Mets and Cards. Favorite moment: Announcer: (something to the effect of) "I'm not afraid of anything Ludwick's gonna do. Especially in this ballpark, he's gonna stay in the ballpark." About one second later, Ludwick hits a two-run homer. Announcer:"I'm an idiot."
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http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-ticketprices.html
it's criminal to not have any tickets for under 10 bucks. Dodgers tickets went up after acquiring Manny, but they still have $9 tickets.
For shame, Philadelphia and St. Louis. They won't spend any money but they expect the fans to. Because they will.
Now, I wanna go to Houston and sit behind home plate.
Anyway, great game tonight between the Mets and Cards. Favorite moment: Announcer: (something to the effect of) "I'm not afraid of anything Ludwick's gonna do. Especially in this ballpark, he's gonna stay in the ballpark." About one second later, Ludwick hits a two-run homer. Announcer:"I'm an idiot."
Was that on ESPN? Because the exact opposite happened on SNY, where the announcers kept talking about how you couldn't overlook Ludwick, and then three seconds later he hit that homer.
CitiField's gotta be the hardest ballpark to hit a home run in, other than maybe Petco. Which is fine--I think home runs should be hard to hit.
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http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-ticketprices.html
it's criminal to not have any tickets for under 10 bucks.
That dude's other infographics are great if you haven't seen them.
http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/index.html
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I think the Mets will go on a run at some point, where they reel off, say, 15 of 20 games. They have performed well, given the injuries.
I would expect that too. Hopefully, they're not 10 games out by that point.
What's infuriating is that they've lost a ton of games they could easily have won. And even beyond the injuries, they keep finding new ways to lose. Santana has a horrible outing. Then the other starters do well but K-rod melts down. Then Santana rebounds but the bats go silent, and then the rest of the bullpen melts down. They're extremely lucky to be only 2 games back--and at the same time, they could also easily be in first place if they hadn't assed away about five easily winnable games.
Sounds an awful lot like the Cubs.
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http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-ticketprices.html
it's criminal to not have any tickets for under 10 bucks.
That dude's other infographics are great if you haven't seen them.
http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/index.html
I have no idea how this site escaped my notice until now, but thanks for highlighting. All those graphs are pretty awesome.
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http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-ticketprices.html
it's criminal to not have any tickets for under 10 bucks. Dodgers tickets went up after acquiring Manny, but they still have $9 tickets.
For shame, Philadelphia and St. Louis. They won't spend any money but they expect the fans to. Because they will.
Now, I wanna go to Houston and sit behind home plate.
Anyway, great game tonight between the Mets and Cards. Favorite moment: Announcer: (something to the effect of) "I'm not afraid of anything Ludwick's gonna do. Especially in this ballpark, he's gonna stay in the ballpark." About one second later, Ludwick hits a two-run homer. Announcer:"I'm an idiot."
Was that on ESPN? Because the exact opposite happened on SNY, where the announcers kept talking about how you couldn't overlook Ludwick, and then three seconds later he hit that homer.
CitiField's gotta be the hardest ballpark to hit a home run in, other than maybe Petco. Which is fine--I think home runs should be hard to hit.
Yea, it was on the deuce. The only person I remember was Rick Sutcliffe, but I can never tell who's talking unless it's Joe Morgan. I like to take a break from Al Hrabosky whenever I can. I get tired of reminding him who's up or what the count is, etc.
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http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-ticketprices.html
it's criminal to not have any tickets for under 10 bucks. Dodgers tickets went up after acquiring Manny, but they still have $9 tickets.
For shame, Philadelphia and St. Louis. They won't spend any money but they expect the fans to. Because they will.
Now, I wanna go to Houston and sit behind home plate.
Anyway, great game tonight between the Mets and Cards. Favorite moment: Announcer: (something to the effect of) "I'm not afraid of anything Ludwick's gonna do. Especially in this ballpark, he's gonna stay in the ballpark." About one second later, Ludwick hits a two-run homer. Announcer:"I'm an idiot."
Was that on ESPN? Because the exact opposite happened on SNY, where the announcers kept talking about how you couldn't overlook Ludwick, and then three seconds later he hit that homer.
CitiField's gotta be the hardest ballpark to hit a home run in, other than maybe Petco. Which is fine--I think home runs should be hard to hit.
Yea, it was on the deuce. The only person I remember was Rick Sutcliffe, but I can never tell who's talking unless it's Joe Morgan. I like to take a break from Al Hrabosky whenever I can. I get tired of reminding him who's up or what the count is, etc.
I don;t think I've ever heard the Mad Hungarian call a game, but there's no way he's more infuriating than whoever's on ESPN.
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What's infuriating is that they've lost a ton of games they could easily have won... they could also easily be in first place if they hadn't assed away about five easily winnable games.
Steve Phillips tripped over an interesting point the other day: that the game is not learned on the field anymore. These days young players spend most of their time in the cage. This leads to a lessened sense of spacial and situational awareness on the field.
A theory anyway.
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What's infuriating is that they've lost a ton of games they could easily have won... they could also easily be in first place if they hadn't assed away about five easily winnable games.
Steve Phillips tripped over an interesting point the other day: that the game is not learned on the field anymore. These days young players spend most of their time in the cage. This leads to a lessened sense of spacial and situational awareness on the field.
A theory anyway.
That's probably true. And yet, I want to Steve Phillips harmed very, very badly.
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I want to Steve Phillips harmed very, very badly.
Fess up. You're just jealous of his hair.
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http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-ticketprices.html
it's criminal to not have any tickets for under 10 bucks.
That dude's other infographics are great if you haven't seen them.
http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/index.html
i'm in awe. that guy should have a zazzle page with tshirts of all that shit.
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Haha. This one's the best.
http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-reallyfantasybaseball.html (http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-reallyfantasybaseball.html)
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Donald Fehr will be resigning as head of the MLBPA in March of 2010. Overall, I would say the results of his tenure were mixed. Fehr did a masterful job in fulfilling his responsibilities to the players. The players love him because he continued to build upon the successes achieved by Marvin Miller. Player salaries went up astronomically, there was no institution of a salary cap, and the MLBPA is perhaps the strongest union in professional sports, if not the United States. However, Fehr and his cohort Gene Orza, along with the owners, deserve a lion's share of the blame for refusing to accede to mandatory drug testing. As a result of their willful ignorance of an obvious problem, the game of baseball and reputation of its players have been permanently tainted.
I believe that Fehr leaves behind a dubious legacy. There have been few labor leaders as effective as Donald Fehr. But were his achievements ultimately detrimental to the integrity of the sport? Thoughts?
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Donald Fehr will be resigning as head of the MLBPA in March of 2010. Overall, I would say the results of his tenure were mixed. Fehr did a masterful job in fulfilling his responsibilities to the players. The players love him because he continued to build upon the successes achieved by Marvin Miller. Player salaries went up astronomically, there was no institution of a salary cap, and the MLBPA is perhaps the strongest union in professional sports, if not the United States. However, Fehr and his cohort Gene Orza, along with the owners, deserve a lion's share of the blame for refusing to accede to mandatory drug testing. As a result of their willful ignorance of an obvious problem, the game of baseball and reputation of its players have been permanently tainted.
I believe that Fehr leaves behind a dubious legacy. There have been few labor leaders as effective as Donald Fehr. But were his achievements ultimately detrimental to the integrity of the sport? Thoughts?
duhhhh....I like baseball....
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He should have spent his time trying to help the average player, instead of setting up a lottery system for superstars.
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I wish such an effective labor head could have worked for the average American worker instead of the MLBPA. What he and Gene Orza did was treat player performance enhancing drug use as a just another bargaining chip when negotiating CBAs with the owners, instead of acknowledging that it was an issue that hurt both union members who never used steroids or hgh, as well as the long term health of union members who did do these drugs.
Baseball remains fairly popular but probably runs second only to English Premier League soccer when it comes to being a plutocracy. He shares a lot of the blame in the fact that every free agent period and trading deadline inevitably results in a team from New York, Boston, Chicago or LA ending up with the top talent by the mere fact that smaller teams can't compete.
One of his contemporary player association heads, Gene Upshaw of the NFLPA, was a prime example of a negotiator who failed his members in bargaining, retired players' welfare and looking out for their well-being when it came to concussions and long term brain damage, so I suppose Fehr could have been a worse union head. But then again, the NFL is the most popular league in America, and its players have prospered as much as anyone. So maybe relative labor ineptitude paired with team owners practicing socialism is exactly what a sports league needs to be successful. Donald Fehr was just too good at his own job, and in my opinion hurt the game more than he helped it.
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He should have spent his time trying to help the average player, instead of setting up a lottery system for superstars.
I agree that he did, in effect, set up a lottery system for baseball's superstars. But I also think he did actually help the average player. When Fehr assumed the role as head of the MLBPA in 1983, the average salary was $289,000. Today, the average salary is $3.3 million.
I wish such an effective labor head could have worked for the average American worker instead of the MLBPA. What he and Gene Orza did was treat player performance enhancing drug use as a just another bargaining chip when negotiating CBAs with the owners, instead of acknowledging that it was an issue that hurt both union members who never used steroids or hgh, as well as the long term health of union members who did do these drugs.
Baseball remains fairly popular but probably runs second only to English Premier League soccer when it comes to being a plutocracy. He shares a lot of the blame in the fact that every free agent period and trading deadline inevitably results in a team from New York, Boston, Chicago or LA ending up with the top talent by the mere fact that smaller teams can't compete.
One of his contemporary player association heads, Gene Upshaw of the NFLPA, was a prime example of a negotiator who failed his members in bargaining, retired players' welfare and looking out for their well-being when it came to concussions and long term brain damage, so I suppose Fehr could have been a worse union head. But then again, the NFL is the most popular league in America, and its players have prospered as much as anyone. So maybe relative labor ineptitude paired with team owners practicing socialism is exactly what a sports league needs to be successful. Donald Fehr was just too good at his own job, and in my opinion hurt the game more than he helped it.
A perfect summation of the reign of Donald Fehr.
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it's criminal to not have any tickets for under 10 bucks. Dodgers tickets went up after acquiring Manny, but they still have $9 tickets.
For shame, Philadelphia and St. Louis. They won't spend any money but they expect the fans to. Because they will.
Now, I wanna go to Houston and sit behind home plate.
Why is that so bad? If they can sell out games at that price it doesn't make any sense why they'd charge less to sell the same amount of seats. It stinks that some people can't afford to go to games but it's hard to fault the ownership for not making it more affordable when a stadium full of fans find a way to afford it 81 games a year. I'd think that if prices became too high fans would stop filling the stadium but obviously that point has not been reached.
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He should have spent his time trying to help the average player, instead of setting up a lottery system for superstars.
I agree that he did, in effect, set up a lottery system for baseball's superstars. But I also think he did actually help the average player. When Fehr assumed the role as head of the MLBPA in 1983, the average salary was $289,000. Today, the average salary is $3.3 million.
The median salary is "only" around a million, and the median is a better way to get a feel for what the typical player might make.
I definitely think performance in sports should be rewarded, but just as the Yankees can't exist without teams like the Pirates to play against (and in a better world the Pirateses of the world would just refuse to play richer teams without a 50/50 split of broadcast revenues for games they're in), superstar players can't play without plenty of replacement-level players. I think that your marginal MLB player* could be making a lot more money, if properly represented.
*Of course, a "marginal" player is better than a AAA player. That is, they're not easily replaced at all, which is why I think they're in a stronger negotiating position than their actual pay would demonstrate. I think baseball fans sometimes forget what amazing, impossibly good players your .240 batting average hitters are.
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Agree on all points.
Personally, if I were a player, I would be grateful that I had Donald Fehr representing me. If one disregards average salary and looks strictly at median salary, as you suggest, I still believe that the players made out quite well during Fehr's tenure. For example, in 1988, the highest median salary was $500,000. Today the highest median salary is $5.2 million, a more than tenfold increase. The lowest median salary in 1988 was $130,000. The lowest median salary in 2009 is $410,000, a 215% increase from 1988 to 2009.
Could the players be making more money? Yes. However, I don't think the majority of players have made out too badly. The marginal, replacement-level players have never exercised their considerable leverage. I suspect the reason that they haven't done so is because they don't want to be seen as "rocking the boat," so to speak.
I've long supported the idea of a 50/50 split of broadcast revenues between small and large market teams. However, the owners of the small market teams have yet to grow a spine. Kevin McClatchy, former owner of the Pirates, promised that he would take a hardline stance during CBA negotiations. He never did. No small market owner has. Until someone does, I believe that we will see the economic chasm between small and large markets continue to persist.
However, it is important to remember that revenues for Major League Baseball have never been higher. MLB Advanced Media, in particular, has been a real cash cow. And the small market teams are still making money from revenue sharing. Therefore, I think the incentive for small market teams to be more obstreperous is virtually non-existent.
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Hey Mets Fans,
Do you know what amazing feat Fernando Tatis pulled off when he was with the Cardinals in '99?
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Two grand slams in the same inning vs. the Dodgers at Dodger Stadium. Don't remember the date, though.
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A couple of trivia questions for you, hugman:
-What ex-Cardinals shortstop once said, "If I ain't startin, I ain't departin."?
-Keith Hernandez shared the 1979 NL MVP award with what player?
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A couple of trivia questions for you, hugman:
-What ex-Cardinals shortstop once said, "If I ain't startin, I ain't departin."?
-Keith Hernandez shared the 1979 NL MVP award with what player?
I cheated, but Gary Templeton would've been my guess.
Two grand slams in the same inning vs. the Dodgers at Dodger Stadium. Don't remember the date, though.
I don't either but I was watching the game on tv.
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http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF150-A_Hit_for_Bobby.gif
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A couple of trivia questions for you, hugman:
-What ex-Cardinals shortstop once said, "If I ain't startin, I ain't departin."?
-Keith Hernandez shared the 1979 NL MVP award with what player?
The second answer: Willie Stargell
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You're right, scratchbomb. I couldn't think of any other good Cardinals related trivia questions.
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Final score tonight from Citi Field:
New York Yankees 5
Buffalo Bisons 0
If the Phillies weren't so mediocre, I'd be ready to officially declare the 2009 Mets season a lost cause. Sigh.
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Final score tonight from Citi Field:
New York Yankees 5
Buffalo Bisons 0
If the Phillies weren't so mediocre, I'd be ready to officially declare the 2009 Mets season a lost cause. Sigh.
At least you werent at the game. The douchery on display was astounding, even by Yankee fan standards.
I can barely cheer this team any more. It's basically David Wright plus 7 little leaguers now.
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That sucks. As I said in an earlier post, I think once they become reasonably healthy again, they COULD go on a run. Of course, by that time, it may be too late. Regardless of what happens, some heads need to roll in the front office. The Mets are lacking in organizational depth. There is absolutely no one in AAA that can fill in for any sustained period of time. Someone needs to be held responsible for this.
I have to laugh at Yankees fans. Once again, their team will be fortunate to make the playoffs and even if they do, they won't go very far. At least the Mets have injuries as an excuse for their poor play. What's the Yankees excuse? There's no way that a team with a quarter-billion dollar payroll should only be the third best team in their own division.
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The Cards just acquired Mark DeRosa from the Indians. And it's a good trade for both teams. Chris Perez gives the Indians some much needed help in the bullpen and a long-term answer at closer. With Mark DeRosa, the Cards have a legit third baseman and they didn't have to give up a ton to get him.
I think the Cards are now the favorites to win the NL Central.
You must be pleased, hugman.
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Boy oh boy! I've been out all eve, and u broke the story for me. I am quite pleased.
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It broke after I came back from dinner. The NL is anyone's for the taking. We'll see what happens.
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The Cards just acquired Mark DeRosa from the Indians. And it's a good trade for both teams. Chris Perez gives the Indians some much needed help in the bullpen and a long-term answer at closer. With Mark DeRosa, the Cards have a legit third baseman and they didn't have to give up a ton to get him.
I think the Cards are now the favorites to win the NL Central.
You must be pleased, hugman.
This is pretty much a worst case scenario for me. Trading DeRosa to Cleveland, signing Miles, and then having DeRosa end up with the rivals. Meanwhile, Milton Bradley continues to be a colossal bust and Soriano still hasn't broken out of his slump. Marmol has totally lost the ability to throw strikes. He's still not giving up hits, just walking everyone in sight.
It was great seeing the BA w/runners in scoring position stat today. Last year they were .270ish, best in the league. This year is .210ish, worst in the league. At least Ramirez should be back soon, although who knows how he'll be.
Please explain to me how a team with a totally incompetent bullpen and zero clutch hitting is still only 3.5 games out of first. God I hate this season so much.
EDIT: And now I read that the Cards are also looking at Matt Holliday. I sure hope not.
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F the NL East.
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Final score tonight from Citi Field:
New York Yankees 5
Buffalo Bisons 0
If the Phillies weren't so mediocre, I'd be ready to officially declare the 2009 Mets season a lost cause. Sigh.
At least you werent at the game. The douchery on display was astounding, even by Yankee fan standards.
I can barely cheer this team any more. It's basically David Wright plus 7 little leaguers now.
I traded for David Wright for my fantasy team yesterday.
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Final score tonight from Citi Field:
New York Yankees 5
Buffalo Bisons 0
If the Phillies weren't so mediocre, I'd be ready to officially declare the 2009 Mets season a lost cause. Sigh.
At least you werent at the game. The douchery on display was astounding, even by Yankee fan standards.
I can barely cheer this team any more. It's basically David Wright plus 7 little leaguers now.
I traded for David Wright for my fantasy team yesterday.
Dunno who you gave up, but I can't see Wright getting a decent pitch to hit for the foreseeable future. He's basically their only offensive threat right now.
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Final score tonight from Citi Field:
New York Yankees 5
Buffalo Bisons 0
If the Phillies weren't so mediocre, I'd be ready to officially declare the 2009 Mets season a lost cause. Sigh.
At least you werent at the game. The douchery on display was astounding, even by Yankee fan standards.
I can barely cheer this team any more. It's basically David Wright plus 7 little leaguers now.
I traded for David Wright for my fantasy team yesterday.
Dunno who you gave up, but I can't see Wright getting a decent pitch to hit for the foreseeable future. He's basically their only offensive threat right now.
I gave up Cody Ross, Pedro Feliz, Heath Bell, and Micah Owings, and got back David Wright, Justin Upton, Francisco Cordero, and Johann Santana
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Final score tonight from Citi Field:
New York Yankees 5
Buffalo Bisons 0
If the Phillies weren't so mediocre, I'd be ready to officially declare the 2009 Mets season a lost cause. Sigh.
At least you werent at the game. The douchery on display was astounding, even by Yankee fan standards.
I can barely cheer this team any more. It's basically David Wright plus 7 little leaguers now.
I traded for David Wright for my fantasy team yesterday.
Dunno who you gave up, but I can't see Wright getting a decent pitch to hit for the foreseeable future. He's basically their only offensive threat right now.
I gave up Cody Ross, Pedro Feliz, Heath Bell, and Micah Owings, and got back David Wright, Justin Upton, Francisco Cordero, and Johann Santana
Actually, as a package, that sounds pretty good to me. Santana alone means you got the better end of the deal.
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I think it was an inopportune time to trade for David Wright. He isn't hitting for any power and he probably isn't going to get you many RBI, because there isn't anyone above him getting on base. However, he does have a very high batting average and OPS.
Right now, I'd say he's the third best player in that deal.
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An interesting article about David Wright's lack of power.
http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?id=4284640 (http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?id=4284640)
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DeRossa went 0-3 today. What a ripoff.
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I think it was an inopportune time to trade for David Wright. He isn't hitting for any power and he probably isn't going to get you many RBI, because there isn't anyone above him getting on base. However, he does have a very high batting average and OPS.
Right now, I'd say he's the third best player in that deal.
I actually got Wright and Upton together for steals and a boost to my batting average.
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I think it was an inopportune time to trade for David Wright. He isn't hitting for any power and he probably isn't going to get you many RBI, because there isn't anyone above him getting on base. However, he does have a very high batting average and OPS.
Right now, I'd say he's the third best player in that deal.
I actually got Wright and Upton together for steals and a boost to my batting average.
then i think you made out okay. but Wright's gonna hit like 15 homers this year, which just blows my mind.
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If the Mets ever want to sign any good hitters as free agents, they will need to move the fences in at Citi Field, like the Tigers did at Comerica Park. I've seen a ton of flyballs that would have been out at Shea, end up as doubles or long flyouts.
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If the Mets ever want to sign any good hitters as free agents, they will need to move the fences in at Citi Field, like the Tigers did at Comerica Park. I've seen a ton of flyballs that would have been out at Shea, end up as doubles or long flyouts.
Yanks didn't seem to have any trouble hitting balls out of CitiField. Nor does any other team, apparently. Just David Wright and the 7 Buffalo Bisons he's surrounded by on a daily basis.
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In that article that I posted the link to, it says that Wright has lost six HR because of Citi Field's dimensions. The high left and centerfield walls, in particular, have turned many homeruns into doubles.
But, as you said, having seven Buffalo Bisons in the everyday lineup doesn't help matters either.
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Here's a rumored list of the remaining 102 names, culled from a website of potentially questionable repute.
http://rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (http://rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318)
This list looks bogus to me. I doubt we would see that many star players on such a list. Consider that the Mitchell Report was comprised mostly of journeyman/AAAA players. But it's interesting fodder, nonetheless.
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Here's a rumored list of the remaining 102 names, culled from a website of potentially questionable repute.
http://rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318 (http://rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=318)
This list looks bogus to me. I doubt we would see that many star players on such a list. Consider that the Mitchell Report was comprised mostly of journeyman/AAAA players. But it's interesting fodder, nonetheless.
Plus it looks suspiciously similar to that supposed list that "leaked" just before the Mitchell Report was released
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I gave up Cody Ross, Pedro Feliz, Heath Bell, and Micah Owings, and got back David Wright, Justin Upton, Francisco Cordero, and Johann Santana
You have to be kidding right Dave? I mean you have to be, there's no way that's a real trade.
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I gave up Cody Ross, Pedro Feliz, Heath Bell, and Micah Owings, and got back David Wright, Justin Upton, Francisco Cordero, and Johann Santana
You have to be kidding right Dave? I mean you have to be, there's no way that's a real trade.
We play in a keeper draft auction league; when you draft a player, you have the rights to him for up to three years, at that price, at which point he must go back in the draft pool. Players in their third year get the designation "o". Each player must draft a team of 23 players with only $65, making the average player salary about $2.85. $10 is a really high salary (out of 276 players, there are only 7 $10 players this year.) I am in seventh place, but reasonably close to 2nd (1st is running away with it.) The guy who traded with me is in 11th (10th is 12 points behind 9th) so he is out of it and playing for next year. Wright and Upton are "o" players. worthless to him since he can't keep them. Cordero was a concession to get the other guys, although his salary is $8, and I probably won't keep him, and Santana is $10.50, and I definitely won't keep him. But the guys I gave up, Bell, Owings, Feliz, and Ross, have respective salaries for the next 2 years of .25, .25, .75, and 1.50. As of the end of last week, I had their approximate $ values at 8, 1, 3, and 5, so he's got $15-$20 bucks worth of players for less than $3, and he will have an additional $62 to spend.
So it sets me up for this year with players that were mostly worthless to him, and it sets him up for next year, provided those guys stay in the NL.
Does that help? Or are you suggesting that I got screwed in the deal?
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I don't know what anybody else thinks, but I think you made out like a bandit on that one.
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I don't know what anybody else thinks, but I think you made out like a bandit on that one.
It's the kind of trade that would get vetoed in a normal league because it's so incredibly lopsided in dave's favor.
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I don't know what anybody else thinks, but I think you made out like a bandit on that one.
It's the kind of trade that would get vetoed in a normal league because it's so incredibly lopsided in dave's favor.
A "normal" league? What are you implying?
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I don't know what anybody else thinks, but I think you made out like a bandit on that one.
It's the kind of trade that would get vetoed in a normal league because it's so incredibly lopsided in dave's favor.
A "normal" league? What are you implying?
That the owners in your league are sideshow freaks.
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jbissell, what did you think of Ozzie Guillen's recent remarks about Cubs fans? I went to a Cubs-D'Backs game at Wrigley Field in 2007 and found that the Cubs fans I encountered were, for the most part, friendly and knowledgeable.
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jbissell, what did you think of Ozzie Guillen's recent remarks about Cubs fans? I went to a Cubs-D'Backs game at Wrigley Field in 2007 and found that the Cubs fans I encountered were, for the most part, friendly and knowledgeable.
I just tune Ozzie out these days so I'm not entirely sure which remarks you're talking about but if it's the "Wrigley is nothing more than a bar, no one cares about the game", he's been beating that drum for years. Every year during interleague, he pulls out his anti-Wrigley schtick and it's guarenteed to generate some ink and flood sports radio. I understand what he's saying and agree to a certain extent, but it's obviously a gross generalization.
In my mind every team, especially one with a large fanbase/national presence, has it's true fans who know their shit (there is certainly a subset of this group that are total FWD) and then a variety of tourists/bandwagon fans. Wrigley is a very touristy park, especially compared to US Cellular, because of its surrounding area (definitely more yuppie) and the fact that in the last decade it has really been pushed as a "good-time destination". Not many visitors would want to party at bars on the South Side. This is especially apparent during summer weekends when prices are jacked up and I hardly ever bother trying to get tickets for those games anymore.
I know plenty of Sox fans that jumped on the bandwagon during their World Series run and are back to not caring much about the team, unless they beat the Cubs in interleague, then they're just insufferable. I haven't been to a Sox game (or Cubs/Sox @ Wrigley) since 2001 so I don't really have a good feel for how their crowds are these days. The Cubs certainly attract a certain class of creeps (date-rapey frat guys and their ladies) that paint the rest of us in a bad light. It also depends on your seats. The bleachers are obviously douche city, but the section I usually sit in (1st base side, under the overhang) is usually full of good people who keep their scorecards and aren't worried about polishing off 12 beers before the 7th inning stretch.
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I think it was an inopportune time to trade for David Wright. He isn't hitting for any power and he probably isn't going to get you many RBI, because there isn't anyone above him getting on base. However, he does have a very high batting average and OPS.
Right now, I'd say he's the third best player in that deal.
I actually got Wright and Upton together for steals and a boost to my batting average.
I don't think people realize how many steals Wright has this year. Sure, his lack of power has been disappointing but he's been making up for it in other areas (speaking from a fantasy view).
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I think it was an inopportune time to trade for David Wright. He isn't hitting for any power and he probably isn't going to get you many RBI, because there isn't anyone above him getting on base. However, he does have a very high batting average and OPS.
Right now, I'd say he's the third best player in that deal.
I actually got Wright and Upton together for steals and a boost to my batting average.
I don't think people realize how many steals Wright has this year. Sure, his lack of power has been disappointing but he's been making up for it in other areas (speaking from a fantasy view).
Yeah, he'll still steal 30 bases easy, and he's leading the league in batting average, somehow. All of a sudden, he's striking out like crazy, though. Trying to do too much, probably.
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That makes more sense Dave, I was wondering what was going on there. I still think you came out way ahead since none of the players you gave up are good prospects and all of them will not be playing at the level they are in two months. The other owner would have been better served to just grab a bunch of prospects from a team that had them instead of a bunch of guys playing well beyond their talent even at a cheap price. So, nice trade.
Oh, and if you can get a guy like David Wright for pennies on the dollar you take that everyday no matter what his stats look like right now.
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Very excited about the Cubs big move to counter the DeRosa deal. Jeff Baker joins the stable of exciting utlity guys that can't hit currently populating the roster.
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DeRosa down. Paging Matt Holliday.
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Very excited about the Cubs big move to counter the DeRosa deal. Jeff Baker joins the stable of exciting utlity guys that can't hit currently populating the roster.
I would take major league utility guys over the quadruple-A schlubs currently occupying the Mets' roster. but yeah, that jeff baker move makes little sense to me
i foresee this trading deadline being extremely boring.
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i foresee this trading deadline being extremely boring.
Considering the fact that there are only a few teams that can really afford to add anyone, you're probably right.
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i foresee this trading deadline being extremely boring.
Considering the fact that there are only a few teams that can really afford to add anyone, you're probably right.
Well that and many gm's believe that their teams are still in the hunt for the playoffs. Plus no team is going to give up good, young cost-controlled players for a rental, particularly in this economic environment.
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I hope this doesn't get me kicked out for being a spammy bastard, but I thought some of you might be interested in the sorts of player evaluation things I do as I pursue the pennant (I have won my 12 team league twice in the last 8 years.) So here's an email I sent today to guys in my league.
The players are split according to teams in my league. For example, the first two sets are the batters and then pitchers for the first of the 12 teams. My team includes Hanley Ramirez and Dan Haren. I actually develop formulas nearly daily to run player evaluations, usually either for the entire year, or for the last month (if I need to pick up a player to replace an injured guy for the short term, I tend to take free agents who have been hot over the previous month.
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This time the listing gives rank, player, and $ value based on their performance to date for the year; players are attached to teams according to who currently holds the rights to that player. Look carefully and you'll see that while I picked up some good players for this year, Steve also made out like a bandit; in Heath Bell alone, he got a player whose performance to date is worth over 14 ROTN bucks, and he keeps him next year for a quarter. If Steve doesn't waste all of his money on contemptible players like Brandon Webb and Alfonso Soriano, he should be in good shape.
The dollar figures don't add up exactly to $780 as they should, as I am listing the players with a negative value according not to the minimum of a .25 that draws money out of the available cash pool, but according to their "real" ROTN value. In other words, Bill Hall's in the top 168 offensive players, so he's required to be paid the minimum .25; I don't list that salary, I list his value in REAL ROTN $s; bastard's costing me almost a buck and a quarter.
49) Ross, Cody CF FLA 5.46
75) Bruce, Jay RF CIN 4
118) Feliz, Pedro 3B PHI 2.26
183) Nix, Laynce CF CIN 0.67
186) Ross, David C ATL 0.6
190) Rollins, Jimmy SS PHI 0.55
205) Counsell, Craig 3B MIL 0.19
222) Kotchman, Casey 1B ATL -0.18
224) Hernandez, Anderson 2B WAS -0.2
246) Fox, Jake 1B CHC -0.76
251) Mayberry, John OF PHI -0.87
256) Tracy, Chad A. 1B ARI -1
258) Blum, Geoff 3B HOU -1.04
263) Hundley, Nick C SD -1.2
284) Gonzalez, Alex SS CIN -1.85
294) Blanks, Kyle 1B SD -2.34
296) Baker, Jeff 2B COL -2.42
3) Bell, Heath RP SD 14.05
106) Ohlendorf, Ross SP PIT 2.81
124) Oswalt, Roy SP HOU 2.11
150) Dempster, Ryan SP CHC 1.37
241) Owings, Micah SP CIN -0.59
259) Blanton, Joe SP PHI -1.08
277) Nolasco, Ricky SP FLA -1.6
307) Silva, Walter RP SD -2.69
308) Snell, Ian SP PIT -3.04
309) Sanchez, Jonathan O. SP SF -3.17
56) Pierre, Juan LF LA 4.82
121) Weeks, Rickie 2B MIL 2.21
125) Kouzmanoff, Kevin 3B SD 2.11
162) Anderson, Garret LF ATL 1.01
164) Dukes, Elijah RF WAS 0.96
176) Drew, Stephen SS ARI 0.76
177) Hardy, J.J. SS MIL 0.75
189) Delgado, Carlos 1B NYM 0.55
212) Fontenot, Mike 2B CHC 0.06
238) Bradley, Milton OF CHC -0.53
255) Schneider, Brian C NYM -0.99
272) Jackson, Conor 1B ARI -1.44
278) Torrealba, Yorvit C COL -1.65
280) Kearns, Austin RF WAS -1.73
10) Hoffman, Trevor RP MIL 10.65
78) Madson, Ryan RP PHI 3.86
95) Lidge, Brad RP PHI 3.43
110) Kuroda, Hiroki SP LA 2.58
161) Marshall, Sean SP CHC 1.07
198) Looper, Braden SP MIL 0.33
204) Zito, Barry SP SF 0.2
254) Burton, Jared RP CIN -0.99
282) Arroyo, Bronson SP CIN -1.78
16) Braun, Ryan J. LF MIL 9.23
17) Utley, Chase 2B PHI 8.24
66) Tulowitzki, Troy SS COL 4.5
85) Stewart, Ian 3B COL 3.62
102) Cameron, Mike CF MIL 3.02
105) Ludwick, Ryan RF STL 2.88
151) Reyes, Jose B. SS NYM 1.35
181) Hernandez, Ramon C CIN 0.68
211) McCutchen, Andrew OF PIT 0.08
232) Ruiz, Carlos C PHI -0.38
252) Moss, Brandon LF PIT -0.88
264) Diaz, Robinzon C PIT -1.21
265) Gamel, Mat 3B MIL -1.21
274) Roberts, Ryan 3B ARI -1.5
292) Martinez, Fernando OF NYM -2.24
300) Giles, Brian RF SD -2.47
4) Rodriguez, Francisco J. RP NYM 12.97
43) Lilly, Ted SP CHC 6
59) Wells, Randy RP CHC 4.76
86) Rodriguez, Wandy SP HOU 3.59
90) Valverde, Jose RP HOU 3.52
98) Nunez, Leo RP FLA 3.31
103) Jimenez, Ubaldo SP COL 2.99
122) Scherzer, Max SP ARI 2.14
171) Myers, Brett SP PHI 0.84
191) Motte, Jason RP STL 0.54
262) Bush, Dave SP MIL -1.16
12) Ibanez, Raul LF PHI 9.9
54) Helton, Todd 1B COL 4.99
57) Tejada, Miguel SS HOU 4.81
72) Lee, Derrek 1B CHC 4.11
82) Hudson, Orlando 2B LA 3.72
96) Jones, Chipper 3B ATL 3.39
116) Lopez, Felipe 2B ARI 2.3
128) Rasmus, Colby CF STL 2.03
136) Molina, Yadier C STL 1.65
137) Hairston, Jerry LF CIN 1.64
139) Fowler, Dexter CF COL 1.61
140) Winn, Randy RF SF 1.6
170) Rodriguez, Ivan C HOU 0.84
188) Gomes, Jonny LF CIN 0.56
215) Murphy, Daniel LF NYM 0.02
28) Gallardo, Yovani SP MIL 7.3
55) Pineiro, Joel SP STL 4.88
63) Wainwright, Adam SP STL 4.72
111) McClellan, Kyle RP STL 2.43
117) Lohse, Kyle SP STL 2.28
127) Villanueva, Carlos SP MIL 2.08
158) West, Sean SP FLA 1.15
182) Maholm, Paul SP PIT 0.68
267) Hanrahan, Joel RP PIT -1.33
311) Wellemeyer, Todd SP STL -3.41
13) Reynolds, Mark 3B ARI 9.71
48) Lee, Carlos N. LF HOU 5.53
64) Victorino, Shane CF PHI 4.59
76) Cantu, Jorge 3B FLA 3.98
93) Uggla, Dan 2B FLA 3.48
99) Sheffield, Gary DH NYM 3.26
107) Hart, Corey C. RF MIL 2.66
129) Hermida, Jeremy RF FLA 2.03
134) Headley, Chase LF SD 1.71
144) Bonifacio, Emilio 2B FLA 1.53
199) Duncan, Chris 1B STL 0.29
220) Jaramillo, Jason C PIT -0.05
230) Montero, Miguel C ARI -0.35
253) Barden, Brian 3B STL -0.95
268) Doumit, Ryan C PIT -1.37
5) Franklin, Ryan RP STL 12.45
39) Duke, Zach SP PIT 6.39
133) Harang, Aaron SP CIN 1.72
142) Pena, Tony A. RP ARI 1.55
148) Volquez, Edinson SP CIN 1.4
152) Kawakami, Kenshin SP ATL 1.34
157) Maine, John SP NYM 1.17
159) MacDougal, Mike RP WAS 1.09
160) Pelfrey, Mike SP NYM 1.07
163) Zimmermann, Jordan SP WAS 0.99
41) Phillips, Brandon 2B CIN 6.04
52) Zimmerman, Ryan 3B WAS 5.3
97) Loney, James 1B LA 3.34
101) Molina, Bengie C SF 3.05
141) Ramirez, Manny LF LA 1.58
166) Church, Ryan RF NYM 0.94
173) Wilson, Jack SS PIT 0.82
195) Prado, Martin 3B ATL 0.43
206) Schierholtz, Nate RF SF 0.18
210) Lewis, Fred LF SF 0.1
221) Matsui, Kazuo 2B HOU -0.07
223) Paulino, Ronny C FLA -0.19
227) Ankiel, Rick CF STL -0.27
239) Johnson, Kelly 2B ATL -0.55
305) Encarnacion, Edwin 3B CIN -2.68
7) Wilson, Brian RP SF 11.22
15) Lincecum, Tim SP SF 9.32
25) Gregg, Kevin RP CHC 7.55
26) Carpenter, Chris SP STL 7.49
68) DiFelice, Mark RP MIL 4.24
83) Wolf, Randy SP LA 3.69
153) Lowe, Derek SP ATL 1.25
192) Howry, Bob RP SF 0.54
273) Geer, Josh SP SD -1.44
279) Sanchez, Anibal SP FLA -1.7
312) Perez, Oliver SP NYM -3.55
22) Kemp, Matt CF LA 7.85
30) Hawpe, Brad RF COL 6.99
67) DeRosa, Mark 2B STL 4.43
74) Barmes, Clint 2B COL 4.02
84) McCann, Brian C ATL 3.64
92) LaRoche, Adam A. 1B PIT 3.5
167) Harris, Willie LF WAS 0.94
193) Byrnes, Eric LF ARI 0.54
194) Ishikawa, Travis 1B SF 0.5
203) Ryan, Brendan SS STL 0.22
208) Dickerson, Chris LF CIN 0.14
233) Snyder, Chris C ARI -0.39
257) Keppinger, Jeff SS HOU -1
281) Gonzalez, Carlos OF COL -1.74
295) Maybin, Cameron CF FLA -2.4
297) Marson, Lou C PHI -2.43
302) Freese, David 3B STL -2.52
18) Capps, Matt RP PIT 8.15
32) Soriano, Rafael RP ATL 6.86
33) Vazquez, Javier SP ATL 6.76
100) Kershaw, Clayton SP LA 3.11
201) Perez, Chris RP CLE 0.23
217) Stults, Eric SP LA 0
225) Samardzija, Jeff RP CHC -0.2
250) Hamels, Cole SP PHI -0.85
270) Garland, Jon SP ARI -1.39
287) Park, Chan Ho SP PHI -1.97
34) Dunn, Adam LF WAS 6.68
61) Bourn, Michael CF HOU 4.74
120) Johnson, Nick 1B WAS 2.25
138) Guzman, Cristian SS WAS 1.63
172) Diaz, Matt LF ATL 0.82
185) Ramirez, Aramis 3B CHC 0.61
187) Soto, Geovany C CHC 0.58
196) Taveras, Willy CF CIN 0.36
202) Eckstein, David SS SD 0.22
237) Greene, Khalil SS STL -0.52
248) Tatis, Fernando LF NYM -0.77
283) Hill, Koyie C CHC -1.82
288) Aurilia, Rich 1B SF -2.01
290) Rosales, Adam 3B CIN -2.17
306) Michaels, Jason LF HOU -2.69
2) Broxton, Jonathan RP LA 14.18
31) Qualls, Chad RP ARI 6.86
36) Hawkins, LaTroy RP HOU 6.55
109) Correia, Kevin SP SD 2.58
114) Zambrano, Carlos SP CHC 2.33
115) Weathers, David RP CIN 2.31
126) Hammel, Jason SP COL 2.09
179) Hampton, Mike SP HOU 0.72
213) Miller, Andrew SP FLA 0.05
214) Corpas, Manny RP COL 0.03
285) Suppan, Jeff SP MIL -1.89
35) Beltran, Carlos CF NYM 6.55
40) Berkman, Lance 1B HOU 6.2
60) Blake, Casey 3B LA 4.75
71) Sanchez, Freddy 2B PIT 4.17
112) Spilborghs, Ryan RF COL 2.42
132) Fukudome, Kosuke RF CHC 1.74
147) Smith, Seth RF COL 1.43
165) Schumaker, Skip CF STL 0.95
218) Baker, John C FLA -0.02
229) Atkins, Garrett 3B COL -0.34
269) Blanco, Henry C SD -1.39
271) Cabrera, Everth SS SD -1.43
293) Schafer, Jordan OF ATL -2.3
301) Rodriguez, Luis O. SS SD -2.49
27) Cain, Matt SP SF 7.46
42) Billingsley, Chad SP LA 6.01
70) Marquis, Jason SP COL 4.18
81) Belisario, Ronald RP LA 3.74
108) Davis, Doug SP ARI 2.62
113) Condrey, Clay RP PHI 2.33
131) Johnson, Randy SP SF 1.96
175) Reyes, Dennys RP STL 0.79
313) Parra, Manny SP MIL -6.31
11) Ramirez, Hanley SS FLA 10.19
19) Upton, Justin RF ARI 8.02
20) Wright, David 3B NYM 7.98
21) Gonzalez, Adrian 1B SD 7.9
89) Soriano, Alfonso LF CHC 3.52
145) Iannetta, Chris C COL 1.46
155) Renteria, Edgar SS SF 1.19
180) Hoffpauir, Micah OF CHC 0.68
209) Santos, Omir C NYM 0.1
219) Johnson, Reed CF CHC -0.03
234) Uribe, Juan 2B SF -0.41
249) Dobbs, Greg 3B PHI -0.79
261) Hall, Bill 3B MIL -1.13
266) Carroll, Brett CF FLA -1.25
276) Hinske, Eric RF NYY -1.59
299) Milledge, Lastings CF PIT -2.43
6) Haren, Dan SP ARI 12.22
9) Cordero, Francisco RP CIN 11.03
50) Troncoso, Ramon RP LA 5.44
53) Santana, Johan SP NYM 5.28
58) Sampson, Chris SP HOU 4.77
143) Ortiz, Russ SP HOU 1.54
169) Rauch, Jon RP ARI 0.87
174) Grabow, John RP PIT 0.8
240) Webb, Brandon SP ARI -0.59
243) Martis, Shairon SP WAS -0.64
291) Moyer, Jamie SP PHI -2.2
1) Pujols, Albert 1B STL 15.42
38) Werth, Jayson RF PHI 6.43
46) Pence, Hunter RF HOU 5.56
62) Votto, Joey 1B CIN 4.72
79) Rowand, Aaron CF SF 3.81
80) Theriot, Ryan SS CHC 3.79
91) Escobar, Yunel SS ATL 3.51
130) Willingham, Josh LF WAS 2.01
149) Francoeur, Jeff RF ATL 1.38
184) Castillo, Luis 2B NYM 0.62
226) Martin, Russell C LA -0.24
245) Furcal, Rafael SS LA -0.69
286) Kendall, Jason C MIL -1.97
304) DeWitt, Blake 2B LA -2.63
8) Street, Huston RP COL 11.06
23) Cueto, Johnny SP CIN 7.64
45) Jurrjens, Jair SP ATL 5.74
77) Happ, J.A. SP PHI 3.92
88) Cook, Aaron SP COL 3.52
104) Lannan, John SP WAS 2.95
119) Hanson, Tommy SP ATL 2.26
207) Putz, J.J. RP NYM 0.15
228) Medlen, Kris P ATL -0.29
236) Bastardo, Antonio SP PHI -0.49
289) Geary, Geoff RP HOU -2.05
310) Olsen, Scott SP WAS -3.37
14) Fielder, Prince 1B MIL 9.36
29) Howard, Ryan 1B PHI 7.27
44) Sandoval, Pablo 1B SF 5.93
47) Ethier, Andre RF LA 5.55
51) McLouth, Nate CF ATL 5.42
69) Hairston, Scott CF SD 4.21
94) Morgan, Nyjer LF WAS 3.46
154) LaRoche, Andy 3B PIT 1.21
156) McGehee, Casey 3B MIL 1.19
197) Young, Chris B. CF ARI 0.33
200) Flores, Jesus C WAS 0.24
231) Burriss, Emmanuel SS SF -0.37
235) Coghlan, Chris 3B FLA -0.44
242) Gonzalez, Alberto SS WAS -0.63
244) Hanigan, Ryan C CIN -0.67
260) Pagan, Angel LF NYM -1.09
275) Coste, Chris C PHI -1.51
298) Canizares, Barbaro OF ATL -2.43
303) Velez, Eugenio 2B SF -2.52
24) Johnson, Josh SP FLA 7.59
37) Gonzalez, Mike RP ATL 6.47
65) Lindstrom, Matt RP FLA 4.54
73) Meyer, Dan L. SP FLA 4.04
87) Peavy, Jake SP SD 3.53
123) Nieve, Fernando RP NYM 2.12
135) Marmol, Carlos RP CHC 1.67
146) Volstad, Chris SP FLA 1.45
168) Harden, Rich SP CHC 0.9
178) Thompson, Brad SP STL 0.74
216) Romero, J.C. RP PHI 0.02
247) Young, Chris R. SP SD -0.76
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Why don't you consider past performance in your equation? Less than half a season is quite a small sample size in a keeper league.
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It's easy to hate on Boston Red Sox fans, but now that Manny and Schilling are gone, Boston has one of the classier lineups in baseball.
Pedroia, Youkilis, Lowell, Ellsbury, Varitek, etc... GOOD GUYS lead the AL East.
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I don't know, I like him, but Ellsbury kinda seems like a douche.
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So does Youkilis.
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It's easy to hate on Boston Red Sox fans, but now that Manny and Schilling are gone, Boston has one of the classier lineups in baseball.
Pedroia, Youkilis, Lowell, Ellsbury, Varitek, etc... GOOD GUYS lead the AL East.
You're totally right. I'm a Red Sox fan and I think I hate my fellow fans more than anybody does. The team on the other hand is a real pleasure to watch and support.
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Why don't you consider past performance in your equation? Less than half a season is quite a small sample size in a keeper league.
Well, no, it's actually more than adequate for most purposes. Sign up for my class!
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Why don't you consider past performance in your equation? Less than half a season is quite a small sample size in a keeper league.
Well, no, it's actually more than adequate for most purposes. Sign up for my class!
More like Trapper Keeper league. Take that, nerds.
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And now a word from Manuel "Manny" Aristides Ramirez Onelcida:
"There was only one man that was perfect, and they killed him. So that's how I look at life."
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And now a word from Manuel "Manny" Aristides Ramirez Onelcida:
"There was only one man that was perfect, and they killed him. So that's how I look at life."
deep. nothing like draggin jesus into your fuckups.
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"There was only one man that was perfect, and they killed him. So that's how I look at life."
deep. nothing like draggin jesus into your fuckups.
I thought he was talking about JFK...
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Perhaps the Phillies have finally put the Buffalo Bis...er the New York Mets out of their misery. One can only hope. :( >:(
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I just read an interesting stat that I'm sure Mets fans are painfully aware of
In his 51-start Mets career, Santana's team has been shut out in two of his starts, scored one run eight times, two runs seven times and three runs six times. That means that in 45.1 percent of Santana's Mets starts, his team has been held to three runs or fewer.
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I just read an interesting stat that I'm sure Mets fans are painfully aware of In his 51-start Mets career, Santana's team has been shut out in two of his starts, scored one run eight times, two runs seven times and three runs six times. That means that in 45.1 percent of Santana's Mets starts, his team has been held to three runs or fewer.
Oh, I'm definitely aware of that. It sucks when he pitches against another ace, but infuriating when he faces off the Joe Blantons of the world.
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If I had to scrap the Mets roster and rebuild, Santana, Wright, and K-Rod would be the only
two three players I would definitely keep. Everyone else would be expendable.
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I think it's funny that a big reason Santana didn't want to resign with the Twins at a hometown discount is because he didn't get run support here.
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I think it's funny that a big reason Santana didn't want to resign with the Twins at a hometown discount is because he didn't get run support here.
Or he wanted an assload of money on the FA market.
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I think it's funny that a big reason Santana didn't want to resign with the Twins at a hometown discount is because he didn't get run support here.
Or he wanted an assload of money on the FA market.
Even funnier is the fact that the Yankees would rather have Phil Hughes and/or Ian Kennedy.
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But CC Sabathia is a nice, albeit expensive consolation prize.
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But CC Sabathia is a nice, albeit expensive consolation prize.
I'd rather have Santana than the CC/Burnett combo.
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But CC Sabathia is a nice, albeit expensive consolation prize.
I'd rather have Santana than the CC/Burnett combo.
I agree. Given CC Sabathia's frame, I think he should be good for another 3 or 4 years. However, the Yankees will regret that contract by year 5. A.J. Burnett was just a waste of $80 million.
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The Mets are an absolute horror show. That is all.
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The Mets are an absolute horror show. That is all.
they're at art-howe-era levels of unwatchability. good christ
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Look at it this way, it could be worse. You never had to witness the Lloyd McClendon-era Pirates in person. One season, the Pirates celebrated avoiding a 90-loss season with champagne in the clubhouse.
The Mets, though, are very hard to watch. A lack of fundamentals and a dearth of talent make for bad baseball.
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Heh. The Mets trade Ryan Church to the Braves for Jeff Francoeur. I don't know. This is a nothing move, IMO. Church is the better player right now and Francoeur is one of the worst everyday starting players in the game. But Francoeur has greater upside than Church, although I don't believe he'll pan out (He has a .282 OBP, which is utterly pathetic). His numbers have fallen off precipitously since his first two years in the Majors.
Maybe I'm wrong and he'll be a useful addition to the Mets. I doubt it, though.
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Heh. The Mets trade Ryan Church to the Braves for Jeff Francoeur. I don't know. This is a nothing move, IMO. Church is the better player right now and Francoeur is one of the worst everyday starting players in the game. But Francoeur has greater upside than Church, although I don't believe he'll pan out (He has a .282 OBP, which is utterly pathetic). His numbers have fallen off precipitously since his first two years in the Majors.
Maybe I'm wrong and he'll be a useful addition to the Mets. I doubt it, though.
I absolutely hate this trade. Makes no sense to me at all. I liked Church, and Francoeur is awful. And the Braves are too smart to trade someone in-divison, unless they're positive he won't come back to haunt them.
I foresee Church destroying the Mets every time they play the Braves for the rest of the season.
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This is essentially a useless trade. Although, Church was going to depart after this season, he's still miles better than Francoeur. Francoeur, by any statistical measure, is the worst everyday outfielder in the game. He doesn't walk, he strikes out a ridiculous rate, and he has a terrible attitude. He has some upside, but it's outweighed by his 10 cent head. That the Braves, one of the shrewdest organizations in the game vis a vis talent evaluation, didn't want him any longer should tell you something. I laughed hysterically when I heard Omar call him one of the "best rightfielders in the game."
And of course, Church will burn the Mets at every opportunity. That's just their luck.
Ultimately, this organization is poorly run from top to bottom and is in dire need of a house cleaning.
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That the Braves, one of the shrewdest organizations in the game vis a vis talent evaluation, didn't want him any longer should tell you something.
Exactly. The Braves are geniuses when it comes to trading guys at their exact high water mark. If anything, they held onto him too long.
The Mets front office is just rock-stupid, and has been pretty much since the latter days of the Frank Cashen regime.
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It looks as if Pedro Martinez will be signing with the Phillies, provided he passes the team physical. I don't know how much he has left in the tank. Moreover, he isn't what they need, which is a #2 starter behind Cole Hamels. Perhaps they don't want to give up the necessary prospects to obtain Roy Halladay. Otherwise, I don't get this move.
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It looks as if Pedro Martinez will be signing with the Phillies, provided he passes the team physical. I don't know how much he has left in the tank. Moreover, he isn't what they need, which is a #2 starter behind Cole Hamels. Perhaps they don't want to give up the necessary prospects to obtain Roy Halladay. Otherwise, I don't get this move.
He can't be any worse than their current, non-Cole Hamels starters.
Wait, yes he can. Especially in that ballpark. Nope, I don't get it either, other than an extended middle finger to the Mets.
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It looks as if Pedro Martinez will be signing with the Phillies, provided he passes the team physical. I don't know how much he has left in the tank. Moreover, he isn't what they need, which is a #2 starter behind Cole Hamels. Perhaps they don't want to give up the necessary prospects to obtain Roy Halladay. Otherwise, I don't get this move.
He can't be any worse than their current, non-Cole Hamels starters.
Wait, yes he can. Especially in that ballpark. Nope, I don't get it either, other than an extended middle finger to the Mets.
J.A. Happ is 6-0 with a 2.90 ERA and a complete game shutout this season. Aside from Chan Ho Park's excellent beard, he's been the best thing about their staff. On the other hand, everybody pronounces his name as "Jaaaaaay Happ" instead of "Jay Ay" or even just "Jay" (it's a subtle but important difference) and I don't know if I'm OK with that.
I would prefer no Pedro, though, and would probably rather see them continue with the trend of bringing somebody up for the fifth spot who then dies a week or two later.
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Good thing for the Phillies is that Pedro has a massive chip on his shoulder from the lack of interest from the rest of Baseball... Bad news is that same shoulder is torn to shreds.
But anyway, I'm all for the signing... 1 yr at 4 mil for a flyer on Pedro is a pretty good deal. From 1998 to 2004, Pedro's gave me some of my favorite Baseball memories and I want to see him pitch in the big leagues for as long as he's able.
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Good thing for the Phillies is that Pedro has a massive chip on his shoulder from the lack of interest from the rest of Baseball... Bad news is that same shoulder is torn to shreds.
But anyway, I'm all for the signing... 1 yr at 4 mil for a flyer on Pedro is a pretty good deal. From 1998 to 2004, Pedro's gave me some of my favorite Baseball memories and I want to see him pitch in the big leagues for as long as he's able.
I'm sure Pedro can still pitch on pure guile alone. But only for 5 innings.
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Good thing for the Phillies is that Pedro has a massive chip on his shoulder from the lack of interest from the rest of Baseball... Bad news is that same shoulder is torn to shreds.
But anyway, I'm all for the signing... 1 yr at 4 mil for a flyer on Pedro is a pretty good deal. From 1998 to 2004, Pedro's gave me some of my favorite Baseball memories and I want to see him pitch in the big leagues for as long as he's able.
I'm sure Pedro can still pitch on pure guile alone. But only for 5 innings.
Yeah, Pedro is basically finished. He's no better than a #5 starter at this point. But I loved the guy when he was a Met. I think Phillies fans will like him, as well.
But I think this portends a trade for Roy Halladay. The Phillies have the prospects and a need for another frontline starter and the Blue Jays probably want to get rid of his salary.
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Good thing for the Phillies is that Pedro has a massive chip on his shoulder from the lack of interest from the rest of Baseball... Bad news is that same shoulder is torn to shreds.
But anyway, I'm all for the signing... 1 yr at 4 mil for a flyer on Pedro is a pretty good deal. From 1998 to 2004, Pedro's gave me some of my favorite Baseball memories and I want to see him pitch in the big leagues for as long as he's able.
I'm sure Pedro can still pitch on pure guile alone. But only for 5 innings.
Yeah, Pedro is basically finished. He's no better than a #5 starter at this point. But I loved the guy when he was a Met. I think Phillies fans will like him, as well.
But I think this portends a trade for Roy Halladay. The Phillies have the prospects and a need for another frontline starter and the Blue Jays probably want to get rid of his salary.
I kinda think the opposite. Doesn't seem like you'd bother signing Pedro if you thought you had a chance at Halladay. Plus, the Blue Jays say they won't allow a window to sign him to an extension. So anyone who trades for him has to take the chance that he won't wanna sign and they'll lose him to free agency anyway, all for a half-year rental.
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All valid points, scratchbomb. Should they sign Pedro, their rotation would consist of (probably not in the correct order):
Hamels
Happ
Moyer
Blanton
Pedro
That's not a bad rotation. However, if they add Roy Halladay, this becomes a great rotation. In the post-season, a 1-2 of Hamels and Halladay would be nearly unbeatable. Moreover, the Phillies have a deep enough farm system whereby they could afford to trade for Halladay without killing their depth. If the cost is too much, which it may very well be for the Phillies, then Amaro should walk away. But I think the Phillies at least need to consider a trade for Halladay.
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I think the Phillies are definitely considering it, and I think the Blue Jays would be more inclined to trade him to Philly than they would an in-division team like the Red Sox. But Halladay's also got a no-trade clause, so he can basically dictate where he wants to go.
Sounds like the Blue Jays are in no hurry to trade him and wanna be bowled over by an offer. The Phillies have some prospects, but I have a feeling Toronto doesn't just want major league ready guys. They probably want stars or near stars and big prospects.
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IMO, I don't think the Jays will move Halladay unless they get a team to massively overpay. Ideally, the Blue Jays would get a return similar to what the Rangers got from the Braves for Mark Teixeira. Or they could settle for a lesser return, if they were able to move Vernon Wells' albatross of a contract along with Halladay. Those are really the only ways that a Halladay trade would be worthwhile for the Jays.
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IMO, I don't think the Jays will move Halladay unless they get a team to massively overpay. Ideally, the Blue Jays would get a return similar to what the Rangers got from the Braves for Mark Teixeira. Or they could settle for a lesser return, if they were able to move Vernon Wells' albatross of a contract along with Halladay. Those are really the only ways that a Halladay trade would be worthwhile for the Jays.
Pretty much. And there aren't too many teams who could absorb Wells' contract in the current economic climate. I'd heard the Jays are basically willing to give him away as long as someone takes his contract off their hands.
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So anyone who trades for him has to take the chance that he won't wanna sign and they'll lose him to free agency anyway, all for a half-year rental.
I thought he wasn't a free agent until after next season, so they'd be trading him now to maximize his value.
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You are correct, jbissell. He is a free agent after the 2010 season. But teams have asked the Blue Jays for a window to negotiate a long-term extension with Halladay, a request that the Jays have flatly rejected. It's another reason why I don't think Halladay will be moved this season.
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So anyone who trades for him has to take the chance that he won't wanna sign and they'll lose him to free agency anyway, all for a half-year rental.
I thought he wasn't a free agent until after next season, so they'd be trading him now to maximize his value.
You're correct. Shoulda looked that up earlier.
I don't understand why you'd wanna trade him. He's not making a ton of money and he's basically their only box office draw. And you're never gonna get equal value for him. In all likelihood, you're just gonna get a bunch of guys who may or may not be superstars someday.
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As jbissell pointed out, Halladay's contract runs out after next season. And he probably won't be re-signing in Toronto. So they might as well get something for him while they can. Moreover, they have some good young pitchers like Ricky Romero and Brett Cecil that can replace Halladay.
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I get it and I don't get it, I guess. As for resigning him, I don't think it's totally out of the question--but they'd have to unload the hideous Wells contract first (at least).
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I'm sure that they would like to re-sign him. But Halladay has to reciprocate. He actually has to want to re-sign in Toronto. I don't think he does. Realistically, Toronto will probably finish no higher than fourth in the AL East for next 5 to 7 years. With Wieters, Jones, Markakis, Tillman, Matusz, et al., Baltimore will probably pass up Toronto pretty soon, leaving the Jays in the AL East cellar. He probably wants to pitch for a team that has a legitimate shot at winning their division. The Blue Jays can't offer that, unfortunately.
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I certainly hope JP Ricciardi appreciates this back-and-forth we're having on his behalf. It will save him some valuable decision making time.
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Here's more spam
At the allstar break, here's the listing of most valuable NL players, ranked by their approximate number of points of value they would add to the typical team in my league. I don't care about AL players; I am only talking about baseball here.
Haren, Dan SP ARI 17.75
Pujols, Albert 1B STL 15.5
Lincecum, Tim SP SF 12.75
Franklin, Ryan RP STL 11
Carpenter, Chris SP STL 10.75
Broxton, Jonathan RP LA 10.5
Ramirez, Hanley SS FLA 10.25
Bell, Heath RP SD 10.25
Reynolds, Mark 3B ARI 10
Johnson, Josh SP FLA 10
Street, Huston RP COL 10
Fielder, Prince 1B MIL 9.75
Vazquez, Javier SP ATL 9.75
Utley, Chase 2B PHI 9.75
Lilly, Ted SP CHC 9.25
Rodriguez, Francisco J. RP NYM 9
Kemp, Matt CF LA 9
Cain, Matt SP SF 8.75
Ibanez, Raul LF PHI 8.75
Cordero, Francisco RP CIN8.5
Soriano, Rafael RP ATL 8.5
Pineiro, Joel SP STL 8.5
Werth, Jayson RF PHI 8.25
Upton, Justin RF ARI 8.25
Braun, Ryan J. LF MIL 8
Santana, Johan SP NYM 8
Wilson, Brian RP SF 7.75
Hoffman, Trevor RP MIL 7.75
Sandoval, Pablo 1B SF 7.75
Howard, Ryan 1B PHI 7.5
Wright, David 3B NYM7.5
Duke, Zach SP PIT 7.25
Phillips, Brandon 2B CIN 7.25
Billingsley, Chad SP LA 7
Dunn, Adam LF WAS 7
Wainwright, Adam SP STL 7
Gallardo, Yovani SP MIL 6.75
Berkman, Lance 1B HOU 6.75
Gregg, Kevin RP CHC 6.75
Bourn, Michael CF HOU 6.5
Hawpe, Brad RF COL 6.25
Happ, J.A. SP PHI 6.25
Rodriguez, Wandy SP HOU 6.25
Jurrjens, Jair SP ATL 6.25
Gonzalez, Adrian 1B SD 6.25
McLouth, Nate CF ATL 6.25
Victorino, Shane CF PHI6
Qualls, Chad RP ARI 6
Wells, Randy RP CHC 6
Wolf, Randy SP LA 6
Beltran, Carlos CF NYM 6
Marquis, Jason SP COL 5.75
Cueto, Johnny SP CIN 5.75
Lee, Derrek 1B CHC 5.75
Lee, Carlos N. LF HOU 5.5
Ethier, Andre RF LA 5.5
Troncoso, Ramon RP LA 5.5
Kershaw, Clayton SP LA 5.5
Tulowitzki, Troy SS COL 5.25
Hawkins, LaTroy RP HOU5.25
Helton, Todd 1B COL 5.25
Meyer, Dan L. SP FLA5.25
Pence, Hunter RF HOU5.25
Ludwick, Ryan RF STL 5.25
Ross, Cody CF FLA 5.25
Pierre, Juan LF LA5
Tejada, Miguel SS HOU5
Votto, Joey 1B CIN 5
DiFelice, Mark RP MIL5
Zimmerman, Ryan 3B WAS 5
Blake, Casey 3B LA4.75
Gonzalez, Mike RP ATL 4.75
Morgan, Nyjer LF WAS 4.75
Oswalt, Roy SP HOU 4.75
Peavy, Jake SP SD 4.5
Hairston, Scott CF OAK4.5
Barmes, Clint 2B COL 4.5
Loney, James 1B LA 4.25
Madson, Ryan RP PHI4.25
Cantu, Jorge 3B FLA 4.25
Stewart, Ian 3B COL 4
Theriot, Ryan SS CHC 4
Coffey, Todd RP MIL4
Sampson, Chris SP HOU 4
Volstad, Chris SP FLA 4
Cameron, Mike CF MIL 4
Hudson, Orlando 2B LA 4
Zambrano, Carlos SP CHC 3.75
DeRosa, Mark 2B STL 3.75
Sanchez, Freddy 2B PIT 3.75
Valverde, Jose RP HOU 3.5
Rowand, Aaron CF SF3.5
Jimenez, Ubaldo SP COL 3.5
Capps, Matt RP PIT 3.25
Belisario, Ronald RP LA 3.25
Uggla, Dan 2B FLA 3.25
Escobar, Yunel SS ATL 3.25
McClellan, Kyle RP STL3.25
Willingham, Josh LF WAS 3.25
Molina, Bengie C SF 3
Nunez, Leo RP FLA 3
Hanson, Tommy SP ATL 3
McCann, Brian C ATL 3
Jones, Chipper 3B ATL 3
Fowler, Dexter CF COL3
Bruce, Jay RF CIN 3
Scherzer, Max SP ARI3
Soriano, Alfonso LF CHC2.75
Ohlendorf, Ross SP PIT 2.75
Cook, Aaron SP COL 2.75
Rollins, Jimmy SS PHI 2.75
Lopez, Felipe 2B ARI 2.75
Sadowski, Ryan SP SF 2.75
Sheffield, Gary DH NYM 2.75
Johnson, Nick 1B WAS 2.75
Correia, Kevin SP SD 2.75
Kuroda, Hiroki SP LA 2.75
Rasmus, Colby CF STL2.75
Johnson, Randy SP SF 2.5
Kouzmanoff, Kevin 3B SD 2.5
Lannan, John SP WAS 2.5
Feliz, Pedro 3B PHI 2.5
Condrey, Clay RP PHI 2.5
LaRoche, Adam A. 1B PIT2.5
Ramirez, Manny LF LA 2.5
Hermida, Jeremy RF FLA 2.5
Marshall, Sean SP CHC 2.25
Spilborghs, Ryan RF COL2.25
Hart, Corey C. RF MIL 2.25
Lohse, Kyle SP STL 2.25
Weathers, David RP CIN2.25
Kawakami, Kenshin SP ATL 2
Dempster, Ryan SP CHC 2
Bonifacio, Emilio 2B FLA 2
Volquez, Edinson SP CIN 2
Lowe, Derek SP ATL 2
Winn, Randy RF SF 1.75
Molina, Yadier C STL1.75
Blanton, Joe SP PHI 1.75
Davis, Doug SP ARI 1.75
Maine, John SP NYM 1.5
Headley, Chase LF SD1.5
Howry, Bob RP SF1.5
Smith, Seth RF COL 1.5
Lindstrom, Matt RP FLA 1.5
Lidge, Brad RP PHI 1.5
Francoeur, Jeff RF NYM 1.5
McGehee, Casey 3B MIL1.5
Weeks, Rickie 2B MIL 1.5
Nieve, Fernando RP NYM 1.25
Hairston, Jerry LF CIN1.25
Myers, Brett SP PHI 1.25
Motte, Jason RP STL1.25
Weaver, Jeff SP LA 1.25
Fukudome, Kosuke RF CHC1.25
Pena, Tony A. RP CHW1.25
Drew, Stephen SS ARI 1.25
Ishikawa, Travis 1B SF1.25
Rauch, Jon RP ARI1
Looper, Braden SP MIL 1
Grabow, John RP PIT1
Marmol, Carlos RP CHC1
Hardy, J.J. SS MIL 1
Iannetta, Chris C COL 1
Castillo, Luis 2B NYM 1
Renteria, Edgar SS SF1
Guzman, Cristian SS WAS1
McCutchen, Andrew OF PIT 1
Diaz, Matt LF ATL1
Zimmermann, Jordan SP WAS 1
Reyes, Jose B. SS NYM 1
Reyes, Dennys RP STL1
Schumaker, Skip CF STL 1
LaRoche, Andy 3B PIT0.75
Harang, Aaron SP CIN 0.75
Anderson, Garret LF ATL 0.75
Taveras, Willy CF CIN 0.75
Hamels, Cole SP PHI 0.75
Martin, Russell C LA 0.75
Parra, Gerardo OF ARI 0.75
Wilson, Jack SS PIT0.75
Harris, Willie LF WAS0.5
Matsui, Kazuo 2B HOU 0.5
Prado, Martin 3B ATL 0.5
Pelfrey, Mike SP NYM 0.5
Hernandez, Ramon C CIN0.5
Church, Ryan RF ATL 0.5
Dukes, Elijah RF WAS0.5
Hammel, Jason SP COL 0.5
Perez, Chris RP CLE0.5
Young, Chris B. CF ARI 0.25
Kotchman, Casey 1B ATL 0.25
Baker, John C FLA0.25
Romero, J.C. RP PHI0.25
Hoffpauir, Micah OF CHC 0.25
Uribe, Juan 2B SF 0.25
Ryan, Brendan SS STL0.25
Rodriguez, Ivan C HOU0.25
Byrnes, Eric LF ARI 0.25
Nix, Laynce CF CIN 0.25
Soto, Geovany C CHC 0.25
Corpas, Manny RP COL 0
Villanueva, Carlos SP MIL0
Furcal, Rafael SS LA 0
Stults, Eric SP LA0
Gomes, Jonny LF CIN0
Dickerson, Chris LF CIN 0
West, Sean SP FLA 0
Eckstein, David SS SD 0
Delgado, Carlos 1B NYM 0
Zito, Barry SP SF 0
Maholm, Paul SP PIT 0
Samardzija, Jeff RP CHC0
Thompson, Brad SP STL 0
Bastardo, Antonio SP PHI 0
Murphy, Daniel LF NYM-0.25
Miller, Andrew SP FLA -0.25
Ramirez, Aramis 3B CHC-0.25
Martis, Shairon SP WAS-0.25
Fontenot, Mike 2B CHC-0.25
Nolasco, Ricky SP FLA -0.25
Putz, J.J. RP NYM -0.25
Montero, Miguel C ARI -0.25
Blum, Geoff 3B HOU -0.25
Webb, Brandon SP ARI -0.25
Schierholtz, Nate RF SF-0.25
Santos, Omir C NYM -0.25
Bush, Dave SP MIL -0.25
Ross, David C ATL-0.5
Tatis, Fernando LF NYM -0.5
Young, Chris R. SP SD -0.5
Dobbs, Greg 3B PHI-0.5
MacDougal, Mike RP WAS -0.5
Hernandez, Anderson 2B WAS -0.5
Duncan, Chris 1B STL-0.5
Jones, Garrett 1B PIT -0.5
Flores, Jesus C WAS -0.5
Fox, Jake 1B CHC -0.5
Atkins, Garrett 3B COL-0.5
Burriss, Emmanuel SS SF-0.5
Lewis, Fred LF SF-0.75
Bradley, Milton OF CHC -0.75
Tracy, Chad A. 1B ARI-0.75
Arroyo, Bronson SP CIN -0.75
Gonzalez, Alberto SS WAS -0.75
Medlen, Kris P ATL -0.75
Sanchez, Jonathan O. SP SF -0.75
Garland, Jon SP ARI -0.75
Geer, Josh SP SD -1
Johnson, Reed CF CHC-1
Gamel, Mat 3B MIL -1
Snyder, Chris C ARI -1
Moss, Brandon LF PIT -1
Johnson, Kelly 2B ATL -1
Ruiz, Carlos C PHI -1
Greene, Khalil SS STL -1
Cabrera, Everth SS SD-1
Gwynn, Tony K. CF SD-1
Hanigan, Ryan C CIN-1
Burton, Jared RP CIN-1
Ortiz, Russ SP HOU -1.25
Keppinger, Jeff SS HOU-1.25
Park, Chan Ho SP PHI-1.25
Diaz, Robinzon C PIT -1.25
Coghlan, Chris 3B FLA-1.25
Schneider, Brian C NYM -1.25
Paulino, Ronny C FLA-1.25
Harden, Rich SP CHC -1.25
Ankiel, Rick CF STL-1.25
Pagan, Angel LF NYM -1.5
Moyer, Jamie SP PHI -1.5
Carroll, Brett CF FLA -1.75
Hall, Bill 3B MIL -1.75
Barden, Brian 3B STL -1.75
Jackson, Conor 1B ARI -1.75
Owings, Micah SP CIN -1.75
Hundley, Nick C SD -1.75
Sanchez, Anibal SP FLA -2
Mayberry, John OF PHI-2
Blanco, Henry C SD -2
Roberts, Ryan 3B ARI-2
Gonzalez, Carlos OF COL-2
Aurilia, Rich 1B SF-2
Geary, Geoff RP HOU-2
Doumit, Ryan C PIT -2.25
Gonzalez, Alex SS CIN -2.25
Kendall, Jason C MIL-2.25
Kearns, Austin RF WAS-2.25
Suppan, Jeff SP MIL -2.25
Coste, Chris C HOU -2.25
Torrealba, Yorvit C COL -2.25
Hill, Koyie C CHC-2.5
Giles, Brian RF SD -2.75
Encarnacion, Edwin 3B CIN -2.75
Martinez, Fernando OF NYM -2.75
Schafer, Jordan OF ATL -2.75
Baker, Jeff 2B CHC -3
Michaels, Jason LF HOU-3
DeWitt, Blake 2B LA-3
Hanrahan, Joel RP PIT-3
Maybin, Cameron CF FLA-3
Rodriguez, Luis O. SS SD -3
Milledge, Lastings CF PIT -3
Marson, Lou C PHI-3
Canizares, Barbaro OF ATL-3
Freese, David 3B STL-3.25
Velez, Eugenio 2B SF-3.25
Silva, Walter RP SD-3.25
Blanks, Kyle 1B SD-3.5
Snell, Ian SP PIT-3.5
Olsen, Scott SP WAS -4
Perez, Oliver SP NYM -4
Wellemeyer, Todd SP STL -4.75
Parra, Manny SP MIL -5.75
I work these ratings out almost daily. They don't seem to help.
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I certainly hope JP Ricciardi appreciates this back-and-forth we're having on his behalf. It will save him some valuable decision making time.
JP is a close personal friend of mine and I know that he lurks on this message board. I'm sure that he appreciates our input.
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So anyone who trades for him has to take the chance that he won't wanna sign and they'll lose him to free agency anyway, all for a half-year rental.
I thought he wasn't a free agent until after next season, so they'd be trading him now to maximize his value.
You're correct. Shoulda looked that up earlier.
I don't understand why you'd wanna trade him. He's not making a ton of money and he's basically their only box office draw. And you're never gonna get equal value for him. In all likelihood, you're just gonna get a bunch of guys who may or may not be superstars someday.
Yeah, unless it's something like the package they were asking for from the Dodgers (Billingsley, etc.) I can't imagine they'll get a package close to equaling arguably the best pitcher in the game.
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Fucking American League.
I blame the Cardinals.
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Fucking American League.
I blame the Cardinals.
:D
Interleague play made the All-Star Game irrelevant. I prefer NL baseball and I'm tired of seeing the AL win year after year, but does it really mean anything?
I think not.
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Fucking American League.
I blame the Cardinals.
:D
Interleague play made the All-Star Game irrelevant. I prefer NL baseball and I'm tired of seeing the AL win year after year, but does it really mean anything?
I think not.
I believe I read that 18 of the last 23 World Series have been won by the team that opened at home.
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Fucking American League.
I blame the Cardinals.
:D
Interleague play made the All-Star Game irrelevant. I prefer NL baseball and I'm tired of seeing the AL win year after year, but does it really mean anything?
I think not.
I believe I read that 18 of the last 23 World Series have been won by the team that opened at home.
I counted back to 1980, and of the 28 World Series since then, the team that opened at home won 21 times. So I'd say it probably does mean something.
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According to Alan I. Abramowitz, (some SABR dude) there is a home field advantage.
"In his research, he also discovered that home field advantage in the World Series is due almost entirely to the momentum gained by playing the first two games at home. Teams beginning the World Series at home have won game one 62% of the time.
When a split occurred in the first two games, according to Abramowitz, it made a difference which game the home team won.
In his article, he writes, “Home teams that won game one but lost game two went on to win only 9 out of 20 Series (45%). In contrast, home teams that lost game one but won game two went on to win 12 out of 17 Series (71%). In fact, these teams were almost as successful as those that swept the first two games at home.”
He concludes that winning the first two games at home, or even losing game one but winning game two, usually provides the home team with enough momentum to carry it to victory in the Series.”
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Is there a breakdown by winner by league? Basically I'm wondering if homefield is a slightly bigger deal for the NL because of the lack of DH and it's effect on the AL team's lineup.
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Is there a breakdown by winner by league? Basically I'm wondering if homefield is a slightly bigger deal for the NL because of the lack of DH and it's effect on the AL team's lineup.
In my informal survey, of the 21 teams with homefield advantage who won the World Series, only 8 of them were NL teams, and only one of them within the last 10 years (2001 DBacks, 1997 Marlins, 1995 Braves, 1990 Reds, 1988 Dodgers, 1986 Mets, 1982 Cardinals, 1980 Phillies).
But of the 7 teams that won despite not having homefield advantage, 4 were NL teams--three of those coming in the last decade (2008 Phillies, 2006 Cardinals, 2003 Marlins, 1981 Dodgers).
All of which means...I like to look things up on the interwebs.
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I stand corrected. I guess it does mean something. Although, it shouldn't. Homefield advantage should go to the team with the best overall record. It's just common sense.
I think that interleague play has killed the allure of the All-Star Game. And so what if the AL is better than the NL?
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I stand corrected. I guess it does mean something. Although, it shouldn't. Homefield advantage should go to the team with the best overall record. It's just common sense.
I think that interleague play has killed the allure of the All-Star Game. And so what if the AL is better than the NL?
I agree about homefield, though I guess the argument against that would be a team that has beaten up on a weak (likely NL) division (ie, this year's Dodgers), should they get homefield over a team that may have won a more competitive division (AL East).
Obviously when I was younger the All-Star Game was a huge deal but as I've gotten older my interest in the game is directly related to the number of Cubs on the team. I doesn't help that Buck/McCarver have prominant roles.
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Chris Duncan and Rick Ankiel are driving me insane. They are so bad this year. And they're sapping all of their trade value. They both need to be sent down to Memphis. Bring up Brett Wallace and try him out at third and put DeRosa in the outfield (although he looks like he's in so much pain when he swings the bat that I have my doubts as to his being able to accomplish much for the rest of the year).
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Hey, it could be worse. You could be a Mets fan. At least you get to watch Albert Pujols. What do we have besides Johan Santana?
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yea, i know. things must be tough all over because the cardinals are still in first. (sit on it, bissell)
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yea, i know. things must be tough all over because the cardinals are still in first. (sit on it, bissell)
You're a regular Potsie Weber.
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yea, i know. things must be tough all over because the cardinals are still in first. (sit on it, bissell)
Yeah, every year they take some junky starter and turn him good. As much as I hate LaRussa, what Duncan does with that garbage amazes me.
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yea, i know. things must be tough all over because the cardinals are still in first. (sit on it, bissell)
Yeah, every year they take some junky starter and turn him good. As much as I hate LaRussa, what Duncan does with that garbage amazes me.
I also do not like Mr. LaRussa ver much (no specific reason, really, it's just a gut thing), but have to marvel Duncan's Midas-like abilities. And he doesn't just turn crappy pitchers into decent ones--they turn into unbelievable pitchers. Until they leave the Cards; then they turn back into pumpkins (see: Braden Looper, Jeff Weaver).
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Dave Duncan is a genius. Not much more needs to be said.
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So ALLEGEDLY the Mets turned down a deal for Roy Halladay in which OF Fernando Martinez, P Jon Niese, SS Ruben Tejada, and P Bobby Parnell would have been sent to the Blue Jays.
If true, smart move by the Mets I say. Sure having Santana and Halladay as your 1-2 for next year would be enticing, but it's just too much to give up, IMO. If the Mets were to trade for him, they would have nearly $40 million tied up in two pitchers. Consequently, that would leave less money to address other pressing needs namely 1B, the corner outfielder positions, 2B, and catcher. Besides getting Halladay is no guarantee that the Mets would be anymore of a threat than they are now. They would still have mediocre to below average 3, 4, 5 starters. And their lineup would still have plenty of holes.
The Mets need to keep building up their farm system, not depleting it. There are no quick fixes. They need to build an organization that can field competitive teams year after year. Trading for Roy Halladay would be a mistake.
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So ALLEGEDLY the Mets turned down a deal for Roy Halladay in which OF Fernando Martinez, P Jon Niese, SS Ruben Tejada, and P Bobby Parnell would have been sent to the Blue Jays.
If true, smart move by the Mets I say. Sure having Santana and Halladay as your 1-2 for next year would be enticing, but it's just too much to give up, IMO. If the Mets were to trade for him, they would have nearly $40 million tied up in two pitchers. Consequently, that would leave less money to address other pressing needs namely 1B, the corner outfielder positions, 2B, and catcher. Besides getting Halladay is no guarantee that the Mets would be anymore of a threat than they are now. They would still have mediocre to below average 3, 4, 5 starters. And their lineup would still have plenty of holes.
The Mets need to keep building up their farm system, not depleting it. There are no quick fixes. They need to build an organization that can field competitive teams year after year. Trading for Roy Halladay would be a mistake.
I dunno, I'd probably do that trade. I get not wanting to deplete the farm (such as it is), but if you can trade for potential for an ace (which is what they did with Santana), I think you have to do it. Especially since you'd have Halladay for at least another season.
But I think the rumor is total BS. It's either the Mets or the Blue Jays trying to get Philly to overpay. Or the Mets trying to pump up the value of those prospects for some other deal. Or the Blue Jays establishing a market for what they hope to get for Halladay.
I just feel like, if his previous history is any indication, Omar Minaya would probably pull the trigger if he was actually, seriously offered Halladay for those four guys.
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I'm not sick of Jason Marquis yet! He's having a hell of a season.
Rockies wildcard leaders for the NL now. I'm sure they'll tank after I've taken the bar and can go to more games. Me at game = hometeam loses. Also they have to play like 90% of their remaining games against the Giants.
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I'm not sick of Jason Marquis yet! He's having a hell of a season.
another Dave Duncan reclamation project.
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I'm not sick of Jason Marquis yet! He's having a hell of a season.
another Dave Duncan reclamation project.
indeed. and someone who's actually having a good post-Cards career. in Colorado, no less. that's pretty amazing.
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How great would a Dave Duncan documentary be? Where they just went down the line, showed pitchers before they came to him, have him share what he noticed needed tweaking about them and how he worked with them, and then show the results? Because most of what he does with guys is a very simple, specific thing. He just has an amazing capacity for seeing things.
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So ALLEGEDLY the Mets turned down a deal for Roy Halladay in which OF Fernando Martinez, P Jon Niese, SS Ruben Tejada, and P Bobby Parnell would have been sent to the Blue Jays.
If true, smart move by the Mets I say. Sure having Santana and Halladay as your 1-2 for next year would be enticing, but it's just too much to give up, IMO. If the Mets were to trade for him, they would have nearly $40 million tied up in two pitchers. Consequently, that would leave less money to address other pressing needs namely 1B, the corner outfielder positions, 2B, and catcher. Besides getting Halladay is no guarantee that the Mets would be anymore of a threat than they are now. They would still have mediocre to below average 3, 4, 5 starters. And their lineup would still have plenty of holes.
The Mets need to keep building up their farm system, not depleting it. There are no quick fixes. They need to build an organization that can field competitive teams year after year. Trading for Roy Halladay would be a mistake.
I dunno, I'd probably do that trade. I get not wanting to deplete the farm (such as it is), but if you can trade for potential for an ace (which is what they did with Santana), I think you have to do it. Especially since you'd have Halladay for at least another season.
But I think the rumor is total BS. It's either the Mets or the Blue Jays trying to get Philly to overpay. Or the Mets trying to pump up the value of those prospects for some other deal. Or the Blue Jays establishing a market for what they hope to get for Halladay.
I just feel like, if his previous history is any indication, Omar Minaya would probably pull the trigger if he was actually, seriously offered Halladay for those four guys.
I think that rumor is BS myself. I mean, don't you think the Blue Jays could get something better than that supposed package?
WRT to Halladay: Having two aces is nice, but it's no guarantee of success. Your team can have all the pitching in the world, but it won't help if your team can't score runs. Moreover, with the Mets having multiple holes to fill this coming offseason, I don't feel comfortable tying up 25% of the team's payroll in two pitchers. Plus I don't like further weakening the farm system.
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I'm not sick of Jason Marquis yet! He's having a hell of a season.
another Dave Duncan reclamation project.
indeed. and someone who's actually having a good post-Cards career. in Colorado, no less. that's pretty amazing.
He's certainly been pitching well but I refuse to believe it will last. He's a good innings eater but I've seen enough of him the last couple years to know that he's nothing more than a middle of the rotation guy at best.
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Well, one thing about Marquis is that it's nice to have a pitcher who's not an automatic out in the NL. He's hitting .231 right now.
Has anyone ever done an analysis to see if starting pitchers who are better-than-shitty hitters win more games than your average shitty hitting pitcher, all else being equal?
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Well, one thing about Marquis is that it's nice to have a pitcher who's not an automatic out in the NL. He's hitting .231 right now.
Has anyone ever done an analysis to see if starting pitchers who are better-than-shitty hitters win more games than your average shitty hitting pitcher, all else being equal?
Yeah I'd be interested in that. Zambrano has won at least 1 game for the Cubs this year with a homer. I imagine you'd have to take into account the skill of the pitcher. Take Micah Owings. He's probably the best hitting pitcher in the game but I doubt that makes up for his mediocre pitching talent. But someone like Mike Hampton in his prime, who was a very good hitter/pitcher, would be a different story.
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Well, one thing about Marquis is that it's nice to have a pitcher who's not an automatic out in the NL. He's hitting .231 right now.
Has anyone ever done an analysis to see if starting pitchers who are better-than-shitty hitters win more games than your average shitty hitting pitcher, all else being equal?
That's a good question. I don't know if they win more games per se, but I feel like pitchers who can hit tend to be good pitchers. Carlos Zambrano springs to mind. Doc Gooden, back in the day. Mike Hampton, before he started being a professional DL occupant.
I can't think of too many pitchers who have a rep as good hitters but are mediocre on the mound.
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I don't think there's any tangible relationship between a pitcher's ability to hit and their overall pitching effectiveness.
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I can't think of too many pitchers who have a rep as good hitters but are mediocre on the mound.
Ankiel is probably a good example, though before he had the control problems he looked like he'd be a great pitcher. Same with Dontrelle Willis. Like I said earlier, Owings is the clear good hitter/mediocre pitcher right now. Zambrano has always amazed me because he's a switch hitter (though there have been many times I get scared watching him run because he just doesn't know when to turn it off).
This site (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/lists/hitting-pitchers.shtml) has the best hitting pitcher by year. Interesting to see some of the names, especially Valenzuela.
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The 2009 Mets: "Death by a thousand cuts."
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hugman, why are the Cards collecting middle infielders?
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I suppose he's an upgrade over Brendan Ryan. But I have to question this deal. I know Chris Duncan wasn't having a good year, but couldn't they received a better return than Julio Lugo?
Adam LaRoche was also traded to the Red Sox today. I say good riddance to one of the most overpaid players in baseball.
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LaRoche makes all of that 7 million in the second half of the season.
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I suppose he's an upgrade over Brendan Ryan. But I have to question this deal. I know Chris Duncan wasn't having a good year, but couldn't they received a better return than Julio Lugo?
I was really worried when the Cubs were mentioned to be interested in Lugo. That guy stinks.
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hmmm, i've had a busy day and this is the first I'm hearing of this. i don't like the sound of this. let me go to mlb.com and get back to ya.
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hmmmmmmm, yea, what a weird move to make. hardly seems worth the effort to put pen to paper. I'd rather have more production from our outfield. Brendan Ryan has been pretty decent this year and Tyler Greene did a great job for a rookie. I don't know why you'd take a veteran who's defense has apparently gone to shit instead. I kinda wished they woulda brought Renteria back.
If they don't start making some real moves soon, Albert is gonna start to get really restless. I'm not crying for Duncan, he's lost his luster for me. But still, you'd think they'd try to get SOMETHING for him, put him in a package deal or something. I dunno. What do I know? I like the mustaches the cards got going.
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I like the mustaches the cards got going.
The real question is how do you feel about that thing on Franklin's chin? I find it strange that my two most hated teams (Cards/White Sox) both have closers with ridiculous chins. I think Jenks' dumb dye job is easily the worst of the two.
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I like the mustaches the cards got going.
The real question is how do you feel about that thing on Franklin's chin? I find it strange that my two most hated teams (Cards/White Sox) both have closers with ridiculous chins. I think Jenks' dumb dye job is easily the worst of the two.
Oh, it's hideous, but as long as it's not on me it's funny (?)
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I like the mustaches the cards got going.
The real question is how do you feel about that thing on Franklin's chin? I find it strange that my two most hated teams (Cards/White Sox) both have closers with ridiculous chins. I think Jenks' dumb dye job is easily the worst of the two.
Franklin's chin-forest drives me up the wall. Although not as much as that red-dyed strip Scott Spiezio used to have.
Whatever happened to Spiezio? I remember he flipped out and hid in a closet, but I don't remember hearing anything else about him after that.
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!
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!
Is this in response to Spiezio or Mark Buehrle's perfect game? 'Cause Buehrle definitely deserves a few !'s (as does that amazing catch that saved a homer in the ninth).
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!
Wow, you're really excited at the prospect of Rafael Betancourt joining the Rockies bullpen.
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I'm excited by the perfect game and by the prospect of getting to write "Jhoulys Chacin" a lot more.
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Buehrle has always been one of the most underrated pitchers in the game. Maybe after today he'll have earned some recognition.
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Wow. Matt Holliday was just traded to the Cardinals for Brett Wallace and two other prospects.
Will post more thoughts later.
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Wow. Matt Holliday was just traded to the Cardinals for Brett Wallace and two other prospects.
Will post more thoughts later.
Obviously I'm not thrilled about this but it doesn't concern me as much as if the Cards were to get Halladay or Cliff Lee or another good starter.
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I don't like this trade for the Cardinals. Brett Wallace is one of the best pure hitting prospects in the game right now. He could have been their starter at third base for the next five years and he would have been cost-controlled. I don't like trading a player with that much upside for a rental. Holliday, a Scott Boras client, will most certainly test the free agent waters at the conclusion of the season. Moreover, Holliday's just not that great a hitter away from Coors Field, having a sub .800 OPS away from there. He may improve their lineup for the rest of the season, but I don't like the long-term implications of this deal for the Cards. It's an awful lot to give up for a player that is not guaranteed to make the Cardinals any better than the third best team in the NL.
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Ditto pretty much everything TRG said in re Holliday. I guess the Cards needed to upgrade their offense, but they'd probably be better off going for somebody who can actually hit outside of Coors Field.
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Wait, you can exchange players between teams during the season?! [/Twins fan]
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Wait, you can exchange players between teams during the season?! [/Twins fan]
As a Mets fan I can tell you, it's not all it's cracked up to be.
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Wait, you can exchange players between teams during the season?! [/Twins fan]
As a Mets fan I can tell you, it's not all it's cracked up to be.
Hey, I hear the Rays might wanna trade Kazmir!
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Kazmir would be best served coming out of the bullpen as a late innings pitcher, a la Billy Wagner. In fact, Wagner is a close analogue to Kazmir because both have smallish frames and live arms.
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Kazmir would be best served coming out of the bullpen as a late innings pitcher, a la Billy Wagner. In fact, Wagner is a close analogue to Kazmir because both have smallish frames and live arms.
Then again, you could say the same about Johan Santana.
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Kazmir would be best served coming out of the bullpen as a late innings pitcher, a la Billy Wagner. In fact, Wagner is a close analogue to Kazmir because both have smallish frames and live arms.
Then again, you could say the same about Johan Santana.
Kazmir has a lot more wear and tear on his arm than Johan did at the same age. The Rays overused him (he threw nearly 200 innings as a 20 year old). Plus, he probably could have used another year or two in the minors to refine some of his secondary stuff.
That being said, I still think that Kazmir has a ton of upside and if the Mets wanted to trade for him, I'd be all for it.
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I don't like this trade for the Cardinals. Brett Wallace is one of the best pure hitting prospects in the game right now. He could have been their starter at third base for the next five years and he would have been cost-controlled. I don't like trading a player with that much upside for a rental. Holliday, a Scott Boras client, will most certainly test the free agent waters at the conclusion of the season. Moreover, Holliday's just not that great a hitter away from Coors Field, having a sub .800 OPS away from there. He may improve their lineup for the rest of the season, but I don't like the long-term implications of this deal for the Cards. It's an awful lot to give up for a player that is not guaranteed to make the Cardinals any better than the third best team in the NL.
Yea, someone texted me about this today and I was stoked. Then I found out it was for Wallace and I was not. He was pretty much their top prospect and as I believe I've stated earlier, I would have liked to have them give him a try this year at some point with the offensive tear he's been on all season. But, at the same time, the Cardinals aren't exactly dynasty builders if you look at what they did in '07.
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I like the trade for the Cards because I think Holliday will stay in St. Louis. If you can get an established star for a top prospect and you think you have a good shot of retaining him, I say you do the deal every time. If he's walking for sure after the end of the season then it's a bad trade, but now the Cards have somebody to hit behind Pujols for years as long as they lock him up. I'd rather take the chance on established stars signing in a baseball town than putting my hopes on prospects. They could have waited for free agency but I think getting a player into the system and giving him a feel about what your team is about gives a team a leg up once free agency begins. Especially in St. Louis.
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I like the trade for the Cards because I think Holliday will stay in St. Louis. If you can get an established star for a top prospect and you think you have a good shot of retaining him, I say you do the deal every time. If he's walking for sure after the end of the season then it's a bad trade, but now the Cards have somebody to hit behind Pujols for years as long as they lock him up. I'd rather take the chance on established stars signing in a baseball town than putting my hopes on prospects. They could have waited for free agency but I think getting a player into the system and giving him a feel about what your team is about gives a team a leg up once free agency begins. Especially in St. Louis.
Well if Holliday leaves, they should at least get 2 draft picks out of it. I agree with your point though, mostly because I have suffered through far too many failed Cubs prospects, especially in CF.
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That's why I think Cashman is the worst GM out there. He's tried to run the team with the most cash out there like a small market club when it comes to trades. If you have all the cash in the world and the league doesn't limit how much you can spend, trade those prospects away for established players. I don't hate the Yankees, I hate Selig and the players union for allowing big market teams to be able to do what they do. Cashman has the easiest job in the world and he's making it into the most difficult.
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fuckin' Roy.
http://bit.ly/gvSIF
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Ha!! Roy messing with nem Cards with the laser beans.
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fuckin' Roy.
http://bit.ly/gvSIF
Some guy got killed outside of the stadium yesterday in some drunk melee.
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Ha!! Roy messing with nem Cards with the laser beans.
Did he steal that laser pointer from the last time he went to Laser Allin?
Considering it's Philly, Pujols is lucky it was only a laser pointer and not a D cell.
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I think we may be seeing the beginning of the end of Omar Minaya's tenure with the Mets.
But I could be wrong.
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I like the trade for the Cards because I think Holliday will stay in St. Louis. If you can get an established star for a top prospect and you think you have a good shot of retaining him, I say you do the deal every time. If he's walking for sure after the end of the season then it's a bad trade, but now the Cards have somebody to hit behind Pujols for years as long as they lock him up. I'd rather take the chance on established stars signing in a baseball town than putting my hopes on prospects. They could have waited for free agency but I think getting a player into the system and giving him a feel about what your team is about gives a team a leg up once free agency begins. Especially in St. Louis.
I'm coming around on this, Gilly. I think you're right. Since I was out of the country, tonight is my first chance to see the new look Cardinals as Carpenter battles Wolf.
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I think we may be seeing the beginning of the end of Omar Minaya's tenure with the Mets.
But I could be wrong.
We can only hope.
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I think we may be seeing the beginning of the end of Omar Minaya's tenure with the Mets.
But I could be wrong.
We can only hope.
Good christ. This big flaming pile of stupid inspired two posts on my site today. Too bad this nonsense overshadowed one of their better wins in quite a while.
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That was a nice job of character assassination by Omar. IMHO, Adam Rubin is one of the better beat reporters out there and what was done to him yesterday was inexcusable.
WRT to last night's game, it was indeed an awesome win. However, at this point, it's too little, too late.
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That was a nice job of character assassination by Omar. IMHO, Adam Rubin is one of the better beat reporters out there and what was done to him yesterday was inexcusable.
WRT to last night's game, it was indeed an awesome win. However, at this point, it's too little, too late.
Probably true. A man can dream, though.
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I think Omar has one of the toughest jobs. He has to compete with the Yankees but doesn't have an owner who's willing to spend as much as Steinbrenner. He's operating on the level of the second tier market teams like the Dodgers and Angels but in a city that expects first tier market results. Has he done a bad job? Yes. But, I wouldn't want his job, that's for sure. Well maybe I would... but I don't think I'd do any better.
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Hey TRG, with the Cards' recent acquisitions and the amazing productivity they've provided so far, and with the excellent job the pitching staff is doing (barring Wellemeyer) do you still think the Cardinals will end up with around 85 wins or do you think they'll fare better?
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I'm an idiot, hugman. I admit it. :-[
To answer your question, I say they will finish with 89 wins. But you shouldn't take my predictions seriously, because I know nothing. 85 wins? Hahahahaha!
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I'm an idiot, hugman. I admit it. :-[
To answer your question, I say they will finish with 89 wins. But you shouldn't take my predictions seriously, because I know nothing. 85 wins? Hahahahaha!
I wasn't challenging you, I was genuinely curious. Do you, as an outside observer, think they will take the hotly contested NL Central?
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I'm an idiot, hugman. I admit it. :-[
To answer your question, I say they will finish with 89 wins. But you shouldn't take my predictions seriously, because I know nothing. 85 wins? Hahahahaha!
I wasn't challenging you, I was genuinely curious. Do you, as an outside observer, think they will take the hotly contested NL Central?
Obviously I'm biased but I think its going to come down to the Cubs and Cards. The Cards clearly have a stronger offense at the moment, but the Cubs can really only get better at this point. With Lilly on the DL, the Cards have a better 1-2 in Carpenter and Wainwright but I refuse to believe that Pineiro will keep it up. Both pens are pretty shaky but I think the Cubs have a slight advantage there, although Franklin has easily been the best reliever on either team and the Cubs always have Heilman to ruin everything. I really wouldn't be surprised if the Cards win the division because the only move I could see the Cubs making is for a lefty reliever and right now they just don't have enough (though you better believe I'm hoping they manage to sneek into the playoffs and catch fire at just the right time). It's a shame that they only play each other 3 more times.
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I agree with jbissell. It's the Cubs or Cards division to lose. However, I believe that Cardinals are better than the Cubs.
WRT to the Cards, I think they will finish with around 88 or 89 wins. It appears that they have fortified the lineup with the additions of Mark DeRosa and Matt Holliday and if the pitching continues to perform at a high level, I don't see any reason why they can't win the NL Central. I certainly believe that they are the best team in the division. The Cubs are there only real competition, but they have some holes.
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Jack Wilson, Ian Snell, and cash to the Mariners for Jeff Clement and a bunch of pitching prospects.
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Phillies get CLee and BFransisco for Cleveland for Carrasco, Knapp, Donald and Marson.
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Phillies get CLee and BFransisco for Cleveland for Carrasco, Knapp, Donald and Marson.
A great trade for both teams. I think that this makes the Phils the favorites to win it all.
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I wonder if they are still going after Halladay as well.
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I think the Phillies are basically set. There's really no need for Halladay at this point. They got a slightly lesser pitcher, but they didn't have to give up Kyle Drabek or Dominic Brown. Besides, a top two of Cole Hamels and Cliff Lee is really good.
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Hearing people slightly disappointed with trading for a reigning Cy Young winning pitcher is odd. Having a really good baseball team with lofty expectations takes some getting used to, I guess.
I'm also interested in seeing how the back of the rotation will play out with Happ/Moyer/Martinez/Lopez.
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Regarding the Phillies pitching, I've heard (rumors) that Pedro would be considered for closer duty if he performs and Lidge continues to suck it. Likewise Brett Myers who is doing better than expected in his rehab. He's already volunteered to go to the pen for the rest of the year, should he be able to make it back.
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Hearing people slightly disappointed with trading for a reigning Cy Young winning pitcher is odd. Having a really good baseball team with lofty expectations takes some getting used to, I guess.
I'm also interested in seeing how the back of the rotation will play out with Happ/Moyer/Martinez/Lopez.
Any Phils fan that is disappointed with this deal needs to have his or her head examined. The Phillies got the reigning AL Cy Young award winner without giving up their blue chip prospects (save for Jason Knapp). Cliff Lee is only a slight step down from Roy Halladay in terms of pure ability. Moreover, he's a left-hander and a full year younger than Halladay. And you can probably shave .50 points off his ERA with him being in the NL. This was a masterful trade by Ruben Amaro Jr. It irritates me to no end as a Mets fan, but I have to give the Phils credit for this deal.
On a side note, it must be nice to root for a really good baseball team with lofty expectations.
Oh well, at least I still have the Penguins and Steelers.
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I'm more upset for them signing Ibanez because I was really hoping the Cubs would get him. Oh well, watching Milton Bradley is so much fun!
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Hearing people slightly disappointed with trading for a reigning Cy Young winning pitcher is odd. Having a really good baseball team with lofty expectations takes some getting used to, I guess.
I'm also interested in seeing how the back of the rotation will play out with Happ/Moyer/Martinez/Lopez.
Any Phils fan that is disappointed with this deal needs to have his or her head examined. The Phillies got the reigning AL Cy Young award winner without giving up their blue chip prospects (save for Jason Knapp). Cliff Lee is only a slight step down from Roy Halladay in terms of pure ability. Moreover, he's a left-hander and a full year younger than Halladay. And you can probably shave .50 points off his ERA with him being in the NL. This was a masterful trade by Ruben Amaro Jr. It irritates me to no end as a Mets fan, but I have to give the Phils credit for this deal.
On a side note, it must be nice to root for a really good baseball team with lofty expectations.
Oh well, at least I still have the Penguins and Steelers.
The only thing "bad" about it is that it makes their rotation kinda lefty heavy. But when all those lefties are pretty good, it's a fair trade off.
I don't know much about Cliff Lee's peripherals, though. Just wonder how he'll fare in a park where every other fly ball plops into the front row of the bleachers.
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Didn't expect the Cardinals to sweep the Dodgers. Boo.
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Didn't expect the Cardinals to sweep the Dodgers. Boo.
It's a four-game series.
Also, the Cards own the Dodgers at Busch.
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Shame on you Kevin Burkhardt for ignoring Louis CK while talking to Chris Rock at Citi Field in the fourth inning today.
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Didn't expect the Cardinals to sweep the Dodgers. Boo.
It's a four-game series.
Also, the Cards own the Dodgers at Busch.
So I see. Apparently Billingsley has suddenly forgotten how to pitch.
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Is anyone surprised at this development? I'm certainly not.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4366335 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4366335)
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Nope.
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Super excited for the John Grabow era!
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All is well tonight in Cubbieland. This was a franchise altering trade to be sure.
Cubs>>>>>>>>>>>>Cardinals
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To be fair, I certainly wasn't expecting anything other than adding a new lefty to the pen. With how bad Soriano and Bradley have been, if they can turn it around these last two months it'll be better than a trade. Same with getting Ramirez back, hopefully Soto starts hitting when he gets healthy.
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John Grabow will be a good addition to the Cubs bullpen. He's not great against lefties, but he is pretty effective against righthanders. I'm not sure why they traded Gorzo. I still think he has some upside. Or he just may be one of those proverbial AAAA pitchers. I dunno.
What do you think of what the Cubs gave up? On first glance, it doesn't seem like too bad a return for the Pirates. Of course, people here are pissed off about this rash of deals.
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John Grabow will be a good addition to the Cubs bullpen. He's not great against lefties, but he is pretty effective against righthanders. I'm not sure why they traded Gorzo. I still think he has some upside. Or he just may be one of those proverbial AAAA pitchers. I dunno.
What do you think of what the Cubs gave up? On first glance, it doesn't seem like too bad a return for the Pirates. Of course, people here are pissed off about this rash of deals.
Grabow is fine, but not really anyone to get too excited about (pretty much the same reaction I had to the other lefties they were rumored to be interested in, like Beimel). Gorzelanny could be a guy that just needs a change of scenery but I think you're probably right about the AAAA. I wouldn't really expect him to join the rotation anyways. I just wish there was a way to get rid of Heilman. I'm also hoping that BJ Ryan has something left in the tank, though his performance in Toronto suggests otherwise. He was worth the flier though, since they're just paying him the prorated minimum.
Hart has pretty much been a fringe pen guy until Lilly went down. He's been pretty good in his couple starts but they've given him a lot of run support. Ascenio has a good power arm but seems to have trouble throwing strikes consistently. Not familiar with the 3rd guy.
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Is anyone surprised at this development? I'm certainly not.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4366335 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4366335)
As a Red Sox fan, I'm not surprised in the least. I think every reasonable fan around here knew it deep down... and no, even though I'm disappointed, this doesn't taint or tarnish the World Series wins for me at all.
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I agree with Bill James on the whole issue.
http://www.actapublications.com/images/small/PressReleases/Cooperstownandthe%27Roids_F2.pdf
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You know, we all laughed at Jose Canseco, but it turns out he has been 100% correct on this issue. Practically everyone in the damn sport was juicing.
The integrity of the sport has been damaged irreparably. Statistical records have now become essentially meaningless, in a sport where records are sacred. Every single accomplishment by an individual player will forever be under suspicion. Even the players that are/were clean, if we can assume such a thing, are tarnished. However, I suspect that most people just don't care anymore. People still go to baseball games in droves and revenues for the sport have never been higher. Ultimately, it seems that people will continue to watch baseball regardless of what happens.
I know there are legal repercussions, but I wish they would just release the rest of the names on the 2003 list. This slow leak of information is torturous for both the players and the fans. It only further sullies a sport that has been tarnished enough.
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See, I just don't agree with that. People didn't used to train with weights, and then they did and played better. Steroids are just another thing people do to play better. I don't get all the moralizing: they can be used safely.
The only complaint that I've ever heard that makes sense is that steroid use starts an arms race. Boo hoo. So does everything someone does for an advantage. I've stated above that they can be used safely: I'd be opposed to them if always and every way they're used they led to long term problems. But they don't.
People are hung up on this notion of what's "natural" and what's not that makes zero sense to me. I'd implant a fucking microchip into my head if it made me speak Chinese.
Baseball is just a harbinger of our posthuman future. Surrender.
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See, I just don't agree with that. People didn't used to train with weights, and then they did and played better. Steroids are just another thing people do to play better. I don't get all the moralizing: they can be used safely.
The only complaint that I've ever heard that makes sense is that steroid use starts an arms race. Boo hoo. So does everything someone does for an advantage. I've stated above that they can be used safely: I'd be opposed to them if always and every way they're used they led to long term problems. But they don't.
People are hung up on this notion of what's "natural" and what's not that makes zero sense to me. I'd implant a fucking microchip into my head if it made me speak Chinese.
Baseball is just a harbinger of our posthuman future. Surrender.
Yeah, I think it's pretty silly for people to be so outraged when the majority of them would absolutely jump at the chance to use something that could improve their performance and make them a shitload of money, especially if it wasn't even against the rules.
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Personally, I don't care what these guys do to their bodies. If they want to use steroids/PED's to gain an advantage, so be it. I just think the statistical accomplishments of those that used PED's are hollow.
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Personally, I don't care what these guys do to their bodies. If they want to use steroids/PED's to gain an advantage, so be it. I just think the statistical accomplishments of those that used PED's are hollow.
Fine, then let's invalidate every pitching record between 1963 and 1968 when the mound was five inches higher and the strike zone was something like 30% larger. And everything before the early-mid '60s, since integration hadn't fully (or at all) been established. And any accomplishments achieved during an expansion year.
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The biggest problem in comparing the steroid era to prior eras in which there were conditions that created a drastically different performance environment is that the conditions in past eras affected every player equally. During the pitcher friendly years of 1963-1968 that you cited, all hitters had to deal with high pitcher's mounds. Likewise, during the pre-integration years, all players suffered equally from a limited talent pool.
The steroid era is different because the current conditions don't affect every player equally. There are players that have steadfastly refused to take PED's, thus putting them at a significant disadvantage over those players who do use them. Moreover, PED's have varying effects on those players that actually take them. Ultimately, the conditions today are far more unequal than they were during past eras.
With all that being said, I'm beginning to believe that all of baseball's statistical records are tainted to some degree. Perhaps we shouldn't take any of these records seriously.
To be quite honest, I'm burned out on this topic. I just want to watch and enjoy baseball. At least we can all agree on that.
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You don't have to give up on the statistical aspects of baseball, it's just that it only makes sense to compare players against their peers, and then compare players across eras using the metric of how much better they were than their peers. The steroid issue just makes this really obvious, where before people could mention and then forget integration and other changes to the game.
Not all players chose to take up modern training as it developed--weight lifting used to be frowned on. But more relevantly, it looks like a majority of the players who probably would have been dominant anyway used steroids. Bill James guesses that it's between 20 and 80% and he tends to think it's on the high side.
According to Baseball by the Numbers, non-steroid Babe Ruth was still a better player than Barry Bonds. So that's something.
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Bud Selig needs to resign. It's ridiculous that the guy who was the commish when this all went down is still in his seat. That would be a huge step to repairing the integrity of the game because a new star gets outed every month or so, but the guy who was the town sheriff still remains so. The best thing for baseball right now would be a new commish with a hard line on performance enhancements. Not that it would change anything in the past or even in the future but the game's image will start getting better.
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Bud Selig needs to resign. It's ridiculous that the guy who was the commish when this all went down is still in his seat. That would be a huge step to repairing the integrity of the game because a new star gets outed every month or so, but the guy who was the town sheriff still remains so. The best thing for baseball right now would be a new commish with a hard line on performance enhancements. Not that it would change anything in the past or even in the future but the game's image will start getting better.
A salary cap and a World Series broadcast team that doesn't involve Joe "meh, this isn't football" Buck and Tim "let me reiterate the obvious, only somewhat inaccurately and condescendingly" McCarver would also be nice, but I ain't holding my breath.
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Until the small-market owners grow a spine and insist upon a salary cap, there won't be one.
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Personally, I don't care what these guys do to their bodies. If they want to use steroids/PED's to gain an advantage, so be it. I just think the statistical accomplishments of those that used PED's are hollow.
Fine, then let's invalidate every pitching record between 1963 and 1968 when the mound was five inches higher and the strike zone was something like 30% larger. And everything before the early-mid '60s, since integration hadn't fully (or at all) been established. And any accomplishments achieved during an expansion year.
I remember in the 70s when people like Roy White and Rico Petrocelli (good for 7 homers a year) started hitting 20+. I understand amphetamines were involved.
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There's no question about it, cheating has been going on in the game for as long as it has existed. Gaylord Perry scuffed baseballs. But people think that is charming in some way. The 1951 New York Giants stole signs in the pennant deciding game against the Dodgers. I suppose you could argue that there are varying degrees of cheating, with some actions being worse than others. I don't know if I buy into that line of thinking, however.
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There's no question about it, cheating has been going on in the game for as long as it has existed. Gaylord Perry scuffed baseballs. But people think that is charming in some way. The 1951 New York Giants stole signs in the pennant deciding game against the Dodgers. I suppose you could argue that there are varying degrees of cheating, with some actions being worse than others. I don't know if I buy into that line of thinking, however.
So you think every form of cheating is exactly the same?
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On another note. Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.
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On another note. Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.
You win hugman. I have officially given up on this season.
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On another note. Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.
You win hugman. I have officially given up on this season.
we'll see if the Cards maintain. Barring any more major injuries (KNOCK ON WOOD) I think they'll win the Central, and if they play the dodgers in the playoffs they'll beat them. The rest is up in the air.
A lot of teams just folded this year.
Still a lot of baseball left, though.
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On another note. Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.
I was just wondering who might win the NL Cy Young this year. Nobody's having a Lincecum-esque year. Matt Cain's been pretty awesome. My guess is it'll go for whoever gets the most wins, because whenever there's no clear cut favorite, the voters always got for wins over stats that really matter.
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There's no question about it, cheating has been going on in the game for as long as it has existed. Gaylord Perry scuffed baseballs. But people think that is charming in some way. The 1951 New York Giants stole signs in the pennant deciding game against the Dodgers. I suppose you could argue that there are varying degrees of cheating, with some actions being worse than others. I don't know if I buy into that line of thinking, however.
So you think every form of cheating is exactly the same?
No not every form of cheating is exactly the same, but it is still cheating nonetheless. What makes Graig Nettles (who once corked his bat with Superballs) any more pure than Manny Ramirez? When Gaylord Perry admits to scuffing baseballs, why is that we just blow it off? Is taking PED's really any worse than stealing signs? Most forms of cheating have an impact on the outcome of a game.
Ultimately, every player is looking for an edge on the competition. Cheating is a part of the game. Does it make cheating okay? No. But players aren't ever going to stop doing it.
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Why isn't Tommy John surgery considered cheating? There are lots of of pitchers who claim they pitch better after it.
Are people going to be up in arms in 50 years when genetically engineered supermen are playing the game?
Is Albert Pujols cheating by being superior to me in every way? The fact that he happened to be born with genetic gifts making him a gifted athlete and me a skinny nobody, that's just not fair. No matter how hard I worked I just wouldn't have a chance.
People are going to look back on our view of thinking that using drugs is cheating and laugh, because everyone is going to be using drugs to get better at everything.
I'm going to see Sunn O))) tonight. I bet there are drugs to make me appreciate that more.
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On another note. Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.
I was just wondering who might win the NL Cy Young this year. Nobody's having a Lincecum-esque year. Matt Cain's been pretty awesome. My guess is it'll go for whoever gets the most wins, because whenever there's no clear cut favorite, the voters always got for wins over stats that really matter.
If Carpenter keeps pitching like he has all season he will win it.
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On another note. Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.
I was just wondering who might win the NL Cy Young this year. Nobody's having a Lincecum-esque year. Matt Cain's been pretty awesome. My guess is it'll go for whoever gets the most wins, because whenever there's no clear cut favorite, the voters always got for wins over stats that really matter.
If Carpenter keeps pitching like he has all season he will win it.
You don't think Wainwright will get support? Or they might possibly split votes? I didn't realize how close their numbers are now:
Carpenter 12-3, 2.27 ERA, 97 Ks, 0.98 WHIP, 130.2 IP
Wainwright 13-7, 2.73 ERA, 146 Ks, 1.27 WHIP, 165 IP
Carpenter obviously has a better winning percentage and a lower ERA but Wainwright has pitched 35 innings more and blows him away in Ks. Besides Lincecum and Cain, I think they're the best 1-2 combo in the NL right now.
Haren seems to have taken his usual second half slide.
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On another note. Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.
I was just wondering who might win the NL Cy Young this year. Nobody's having a Lincecum-esque year. Matt Cain's been pretty awesome. My guess is it'll go for whoever gets the most wins, because whenever there's no clear cut favorite, the voters always got for wins over stats that really matter.
If Carpenter keeps pitching like he has all season he will win it.
You don't think Wainwright will get support? Or they might possibly split votes? I didn't realize how close their numbers are now:
Carpenter 12-3, 2.27 ERA, 97 Ks, 0.98 WHIP, 130.2 IP
Wainwright 13-7, 2.73 ERA, 146 Ks, 1.27 WHIP, 165 IP
Carpenter obviously has a better winning percentage and a lower ERA but Wainwright has pitched 35 innings more and blows him away in Ks. Besides Lincecum and Cain, I think they're the best 1-2 combo in the NL right now.
Haren seems to have taken his usual second half slide.
You may be right about Wainwright. And I think Wainwright actually had a lower ERA before this last time through the rotation. I tend to form these opinions on gut without facts to back them up. It's just my feeling from watching them pitch all season. Now that you mention it, I'd love for Adam to get a Cy Young. According to a graphic I saw last week, Carpenter gets stingier and stingier as the season progresses. We shall see.
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On another note. Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.
I was just wondering who might win the NL Cy Young this year. Nobody's having a Lincecum-esque year. Matt Cain's been pretty awesome. My guess is it'll go for whoever gets the most wins, because whenever there's no clear cut favorite, the voters always got for wins over stats that really matter.
If Carpenter keeps pitching like he has all season he will win it.
You don't think Wainwright will get support? Or they might possibly split votes? I didn't realize how close their numbers are now:
Carpenter 12-3, 2.27 ERA, 97 Ks, 0.98 WHIP, 130.2 IP
Wainwright 13-7, 2.73 ERA, 146 Ks, 1.27 WHIP, 165 IP
Carpenter obviously has a better winning percentage and a lower ERA but Wainwright has pitched 35 innings more and blows him away in Ks. Besides Lincecum and Cain, I think they're the best 1-2 combo in the NL right now.
Haren seems to have taken his usual second half slide.
You may be right about Wainwright. And I think Wainwright actually had a lower ERA before this last time through the rotation. I tend to form these opinions on gut without facts to back them up. It's just my feeling from watching them pitch all season. Now that you mention it, I'd love for Adam to get a Cy Young. According to a graphic I saw last week, Carpenter gets stingier and stingier as the season progresses. We shall see.
I imagine Carpenter would be the favorite simply based on reputation alone, and considering all the injuries he's come back from the last few years.
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Sorry if i'm a little late to the party, but I didn't went to dredge through 37 pages of talk to see if this idea was floating around but, with the Cy Young talk on this page does anyone thinks that Lincecum may win it again? Last time I checked, he had the K's and the ERA, and was up there in wins. I haven't really been following the NL that close, so I don't know if I'm way off base with that. Sorry if this already came up.
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On another note. Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.
You win hugman. I have officially given up on this season.
we'll see if the Cards maintain. Barring any more major injuries (KNOCK ON WOOD) I think they'll win the Central, and if they play the dodgers in the playoffs they'll beat them. The rest is up in the air.
A lot of teams just folded this year.
Still a lot of baseball left, though.
I like Carpenter fine, but if Dan Haren doesn't win the Cy Young, it's criminal.
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On another note. Cy Young candidate Chris Carpenter really had his curveball going last night. Looked like he was throwin' wiffleballs.
You win hugman. I have officially given up on this season.
we'll see if the Cards maintain. Barring any more major injuries (KNOCK ON WOOD) I think they'll win the Central, and if they play the dodgers in the playoffs they'll beat them. The rest is up in the air.
A lot of teams just folded this year.
Still a lot of baseball left, though.
I like Carpenter fine, but if Dan Haren doesn't win the Cy Young, it's criminal.
Why is it criminal?
Sure, his numbers before the All-Star break were fantastic but they've been sliding since then. He's 4th in Ks, tied for 8th in wins, 5th in ERA. Plus he's on one of the worst teams in the league. Carpenter, Wainwright, Lincecum, and Cain have numbers that match his and they're in the playoff hunt.
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Dan Haren is certainly a worthy Cy Young candidate. His candidacy shouldn't be diminished by factors beyond his control, primarily the poor performance of his teammates.
However, I disagree with Dave's assertion regarding Haren. My vote would go to Tim Lincecum. He is:
1st in the NL in ERA (2.193)
4th in the NL in wins (12)
3rd in the NL in WHIP (1.021)
1st in the NL in complete games (4)
1st in the NL in K/9 (10.706)
1st in the NL in K (205)
1st in the NL in Adjusted ERA+ (197)
He is having another dominant season and is helping to keep the Giants in playoff contention. His pitching has been particularly important considering the Giants lack of offensive punch outside of Pablo Sandoval and Bengie Molina.
With that being said, I wouldn't have any qualms with any of the aforementioned names winning the CYA, as they are all worthy candidates.
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Dan Haren has no shot anymore. He's always been a guy who slides in the second half and I don't see him putting up the numbers to compete with Carpenter or Lincecum. I would say if the numbers end up similar to where they are right now Lincecum gets it. There's no way you can give it to Carpenter who has the same stats at Lincecum minus 100 K's.
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Dan Haren has no shot anymore. He's always been a guy who slides in the second half and I don't see him putting up the numbers to compete with Carpenter or Lincecum. I would say if the numbers end up similar to where they are right now Lincecum gets it. There's no way you can give it to Carpenter who has the same stats at Lincecum minus 100 K's.
I could be wrong, but I disagree. Admittedly, I know very little about how they select the Cy Young winner, but too much emphasis on strikeouts seems misguided. Carpenter has pitched to contact a lot more this year than in the past which is partly why the Cardinals lead the majors in double plays this season. I'll take a double play over a strikeout any day. Of course, then there's also the issue of in order to turn a double play someone had to have gotten on base in the first place which means a hit or a walk so I'll shut up now.
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You also have to differentiate between who should win it and who will win it. Because the baseball writers association is home to some of the laziest minds on earth.
Unless someone's having a monster year, the writers tend to vote awards for guys who have won (or come close to winning) before. And in the case of the Cy Young, they put way too much emphasis on wins. On that basis, I guess Carpenter and Lincecum would be the best bets to win. Not that neither would deserve it, but they'd probably get more votes than other guys who are having similarly good seasons (Matt Cain, Dan Haren) but haven't won it before.
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Of course, Wainwright could win 20 games this year. Last night he became tied for most wins in the majors at 14.
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Dan Haren has no shot anymore. He's always been a guy who slides in the second half and I don't see him putting up the numbers to compete with Carpenter or Lincecum. I would say if the numbers end up similar to where they are right now Lincecum gets it. There's no way you can give it to Carpenter who has the same stats at Lincecum minus 100 K's.
I could be wrong, but I disagree. Admittedly, I know very little about how they select the Cy Young winner, but too much emphasis on strikeouts seems misguided. Carpenter has pitched to contact a lot more this year than in the past which is partly why the Cardinals lead the majors in double plays this season. I'll take a double play over a strikeout any day. Of course, then there's also the issue of in order to turn a double play someone had to have gotten on base in the first place which means a hit or a walk so I'll shut up now.
Carpenter and Lincecum are equal when it comes to putting batters on base and allowing them to score, Haren has allowed more batters to score and is a little better than both of them when it comes to putting batters on base. I don't think K's should be the main factor but when everything else is equal it should put Lincecum over the top. Double plays is not something I would look at... it means you already allowed somebody to get to first.
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You also have to differentiate between who should win it and who will win it. Because the baseball writers association is home to some of the laziest minds on earth.
Unless someone's having a monster year, the writers tend to vote awards for guys who have won (or come close to winning) before. And in the case of the Cy Young, they put way too much emphasis on wins. On that basis, I guess Carpenter and Lincecum would be the best bets to win. Not that neither would deserve it, but they'd probably get more votes than other guys who are having similarly good seasons (Matt Cain, Dan Haren) but haven't won it before.
Exactly. Wins are probably weighted the heaviest by the writers, when they're the thing least out of a pitcher's control.
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The typical NL pitcher allows approximately 1.3 baserunners (hits or walks) per inning. Dan Haren has pitched 161 innings; the average pitcher with this number of innings pitched would have allowed 193 runners to reach base; Haren has allowed 143.
There's another way to think of this; let's calculate the number of innings pitched associated with the average pitcher who has allowed 143 baserunners, as Haren has. This is a simple calculation, 143/1.3 = approximately 110 innings pitched. The average pitcher with 110 innings pitched will have allowed 143 baserunners. To get to Haren's level, that pitcher would then have to throw 51 consecutive perfect innings. I refer to this as "innings above average".
By comparison, the next top 9 NL pitchers in this regard are Lincecum, 35; Carpenter, 31; Javier Vasquez, 29; Josh Johnson, 22; Joel Piniero, 19; Ryan Franklin, 14; Matt Cain, 13; Randy Wolf, 13; and Rafael Soriano, 13.
Since this is the stat most fully controlled by pitchers I have always felt it should be the most important ones. ERA is a close second, but it's heavily influenced by bone-headed coaching moves like allowing Gary Sheffield to occasionally play in the field. Dopes. Sports-writing experts are more impressed by wins. Dopes.
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I know I probably should just shut up about this stats-based stuff, but I can't let go without one more note.
"Batting Champion" is similarly arbitrary, based as it is on batting average. But what do you think would be more effective in terms of team production, a 400 AB .340 hitter, or a 650 AB .320 hitter? What kind of ridiculous moves have managers made at the season's end to try to secure batting titles for their players, benching players so they don't risk having their average drop when somebody 3 or 4 points back is in hot pursuit? The batting champion should be determined by a player's "Hits above average", not by simple percentage of hits per at bats, which is meaningless statistically. (By the way, a .340 hitter with 400 at bats is 28 hits above average; a .320 hitter with 650 at bats is 32.5 hits above average.)
Here's an example: as of yesterday morning, Todd Helton was 129 for 399, for a batting average of .3233. This is 21 hits above average. Miguel Tejada was 148 for 466, .3176 BA, but 22 hits above average. I favor Tejada, though Helton is considered by most people to be the slightly better hitter (as evidenced by old-timey Sunday morning listings of the top 100 batting averages.)
But the real key to understanding why Tejada's performance is better is this; start with the player with fewer at bats, and determine what he would need to do to attain the other's achievement. Which player is better should be determined by whether the difference in the performances is above or below average. In order for Helton to exactly match Tejada, he would have to go 19 for 67. 19/67 = .284. Since Helton's got to turn in over-average performance to reach Tejada, Tejada's better (with a smaller batting average.) If Helton could reach Tejada with a sub-standard performance, Helton must have started higher.
Similarly, in the pitching discussion, Haren's allowed 143 baserunners in 161 innings, Lincecum's at 176 BR in 172 IP, Carpenter's at 128 BR in 131 IP. For Haren to "reach" Lincecum, he can allow 33 baserunners in 11 innings, a WHIP of 3.000; Haren's WAY ahead of Lincecum. For Carpenter to "reach" Haren, he can only allow 15 BR in 15 IP, a phenomenal WHIP of 1.000, so Haren's ahead of Carpenter; and for Carpenter to "reach" Lincecum, he can only allow 45 BR in 48 IP, less than one baserunner per inning, so Lincecum's ahead of of Carpenter; and so on. The beauty of the single "Innings above average" stat is that for every pair of pitchers you choose, the one with the higher IAA will ALWAYS be better in this regard.
I am similarly tortured by non-sports ranking methods.
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Another in a growing collection of "Threads that dfk killed.".
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Another in a growing collection of "Threads that dfk killed.".
Do you have AL calculations?
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Another in a growing collection of "Threads that dfk killed.".
Nonsense, Dave. That's actually some solid quantitative analysis. I had never even heard of "hits above average" or "innings above average" before this.
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Another in a growing collection of "Threads that dfk killed.".
Nonsense, Dave. That's actually some solid quantitative analysis. I had never even heard of "hits above average" or "innings above average" before this.
I agree. Great stuff, dfk.
In other news, I don't think I'm on the Matt Cain bandwagon anymore...
Him tipping his cap sarcastically to the crowd today, because he was mad they booed him for sending David Wright to the hospital--seriously, some of the douchiest on-field behavior I've ever seen (non-Shane-Victorino division).
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Cain did that? I've been in the car for the past few hours and I had heard that David Wright had sustained a concussion. However, I didn't know the circumstances. That's certainly worse than anything that Shane Victorino has ever done.
What a tool.
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Cain did that? I've been in the car for the past few hours and I had heard that David Wright had sustained a concussion. However, I didn't know the circumstances. That's certainly worse than anything than Shane Victorino has ever done.
What a tool.
He beaned Wright, sent him to the hospital. He's got a concussion and is staying overnight for observation.
It's not the beaning that earns him douche status; it did not appear intentional. But he got booed for the rest of the game, cuz, duh. Rather than just take it like a man, when he was yanked in the 8th inning, he sarcastically tipped his cap to the crowd, as if to say (a la Scott Stapp to David Cross) "thanks for the words". Total dick move. Like we're all supposed to feel sorry for him.
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Another in a growing collection of "Threads that dfk killed.".
Do you have AL calculations?
I don't have easy quick access to AL stats. If you know of a site hosting such that can download into Excel, I could report back in 2-3 minutes. My fantasy league is NL, so that's all I can access.
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Another in a growing collection of "Threads that dfk killed.".
Do you have AL calculations?
I don't have easy quick access to AL stats. If you know of a site hosting such that can download into Excel, I could report back in 2-3 minutes. My fantasy league is NL, so that's all I can access.
Scratch that; your wish, my command.
Here's the top 20
1 R. Halladay TOR 40.2
2 J. Washburn DET 34.2
3 J. Beckett BOS 33.4
4 C. Sabathia NYY 31.7
5 Z. Greinke KC 31.1
6 J. Verlander DET 29.3
7 M. Buehrle CHW 27.4
8 S. Baker MIN 26.5
9 E. Jackson DET 26.2
10 F. Hernandez SEA 24.4
11 M. Guerrier MIN 23.4
12 A. Bailey OAK 21
13 J. Nathan MIN 18.3
14 J. Weaver ANA 18
15 M. Garza TB 17.7
16 G. Floyd CHW 17.4
17 M. Rivera NYY 17.3
18 A. Aceves NYY 16.6
19 J. Lester BOS 14.5
20 D. O'Day TEX 14.4
Just for fun, here's the worst 10
282 S. Kazmir TB -16.2
283 R. Ortiz NYY -16.4
284 R. Perez CLE -16.8
285 I. Snell SEA -17.5
286 V. Mazzaro OAK -17.7
287 C. Wang NYY -18.4
288 F. Carmona CLE -18.7
289 R. Hill BAL -19.5
290 D. Matsuzaka BOS -19.7
291 D. Eveland OAK -19.9
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Dear Lord, don't get him started.
In the interest of accuracy, I re-ran NL hitting numbers; batting average this season is very close to .260, which includes pitchers. Given that, here's the current 20 best hitters (and 1- worst) in the category "hits above average" which is calculated prior to the start of today's games as (hits - at bats*.260504)
Best 20
1 H. Ramirez FLA SS 39.1
2 P. Sandoval SF 3B 28.2
3 D. Wright NYM 3B 27.3
4 A. Pujols STL 1B 26.8
5 M. Holliday STL LF 26.3
6 M. Tejada HOU SS 25.8
7 T. Helton COL 1B 24.8
8 R. Braun MIL LF 24.1
9 C. Lee HOU LF 23.2
10 M. Kemp LA CF 22.5
11 S. Victorino PHI CF 22.3
12 C. Guzman WAS SS 21.2
13 N. Morgan WAS CF 20.7
14 F. Lopez MIL 2B 19.4
15 P. Fielder MIL 1B 19.4
16 R. Zimmerman WAS 3B 18.6
17 R. Theriot CHC SS 18.3
18 S. Rolen CIN 3B 18.3
19 C. Beltran NYM CF 18.2
20 J. Pierre LA LF 16.9
Worst 10
492 D. Hernandez ATL SS -10.1
493 M. Fontenot CHC 2B -10.3
494 E. Bruntlett PHI 3B -11.1
495 A. Kearns WAS RF -11.3
496 J. Hardy MIL SS -11.6
497 B. Hall MIL 3B -12.7
498 B. Giles SD RF -15.6
499 R. Cedeno PIT SS -15.7
500 J. Bruce CIN RF -15.9
501 C. Young ARI CF -21.1
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DFK, I like to think that a part of what you call arbitrary is actually from having watched people on the field in the act of playing baseball rather than strictly looking at a grid of numbers.
Of course, I hate math, so there's that.
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The typical NL pitcher allows approximately 1.3 baserunners (hits or walks) per inning. Dan Haren has pitched 161 innings; the average pitcher with this number of innings pitched would have allowed 193 runners to reach base; Haren has allowed 143.
There's another way to think of this; let's calculate the number of innings pitched associated with the average pitcher who has allowed 143 baserunners, as Haren has. This is a simple calculation, 143/1.3 = approximately 110 innings pitched. The average pitcher with 110 innings pitched will have allowed 143 baserunners. To get to Haren's level, that pitcher would then have to throw 51 consecutive perfect innings. I refer to this as "innings above average".
By comparison, the next top 9 NL pitchers in this regard are Lincecum, 35; Carpenter, 31; Javier Vasquez, 29; Josh Johnson, 22; Joel Piniero, 19; Ryan Franklin, 14; Matt Cain, 13; Randy Wolf, 13; and Rafael Soriano, 13.
Since this is the stat most fully controlled by pitchers I have always felt it should be the most important ones. ERA is a close second, but it's heavily influenced by bone-headed coaching moves like allowing Gary Sheffield to occasionally play in the field. Dopes. Sports-writing experts are more impressed by wins. Dopes.
Just wondering, what's wrong with just using WHIP?
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The typical NL pitcher allows approximately 1.3 baserunners (hits or walks) per inning. Dan Haren has pitched 161 innings; the average pitcher with this number of innings pitched would have allowed 193 runners to reach base; Haren has allowed 143.
There's another way to think of this; let's calculate the number of innings pitched associated with the average pitcher who has allowed 143 baserunners, as Haren has. This is a simple calculation, 143/1.3 = approximately 110 innings pitched. The average pitcher with 110 innings pitched will have allowed 143 baserunners. To get to Haren's level, that pitcher would then have to throw 51 consecutive perfect innings. I refer to this as "innings above average".
By comparison, the next top 9 NL pitchers in this regard are Lincecum, 35; Carpenter, 31; Javier Vasquez, 29; Josh Johnson, 22; Joel Piniero, 19; Ryan Franklin, 14; Matt Cain, 13; Randy Wolf, 13; and Rafael Soriano, 13.
Since this is the stat most fully controlled by pitchers I have always felt it should be the most important ones. ERA is a close second, but it's heavily influenced by bone-headed coaching moves like allowing Gary Sheffield to occasionally play in the field. Dopes. Sports-writing experts are more impressed by wins. Dopes.
Just wondering, what's wrong with just using WHIP?
I did not do a good job of explaining this, apparently.
How about this; among all current pitchers in the majors, here's a ranking by best WHIP
M. Bowden BOS
J. Manship MIN
J. Nunez CHW
N. Feliz TEX
J. Marshall OAK
M. Atkins CHC
J. Gray OAK
M. Adams SD
J. Nathan MIN
M. Guerrier MIN
R. Franklin STL
D. Haren ARI
D. O'Day TEX
D. Wheeler TB
M. Rivera NYY
K. Mickolio BAL
R. Ramirez CIN
A. Bailey OAK
T. Miller STL
R. Soriano ATL
M. Daley COL
J. Frasor TOR
A. Guzman CHC
C. Carpenter STL
H. Street COL
J. Broxton LA
J. Fogg COL
A. Aceves NYY
D. Fister SEA
F. Ni DET
C. Vargas MIL
D. Meyer FLA
T. LINCECUM
Here's the current ranking by Innings Above Average (for Whip)
D. Haren ARI SP
T. Lincecum SF SP
J. Vazquez ATL SP
R. Halladay TOR SP
C. Carpenter STL SP
J. Johnson FLA SP
J. Washburn DET SP
J. Beckett BOS SP
C. Sabathia NYY SP
J. Pineiro STL SP
Z. Greinke KC SP
M. Cain SF SP
J. Verlander DET SP
M. Buehrle CHW SP
S. Baker MIN SP
R. Wolf LA SP
F. Hernandez SEA SP
E. Jackson DET SP
M. Guerrier MIN RP
T. Lilly CHC SP
J. Santana NYM SP
J. Happ PHI SP
A. Bailey OAK RP
R. Oswalt HOU SP
Which list is a better indicator of quality pitchers?
Here's a clue; again, this includes all pitchers in both leagues
Pitcher Rank by WHIP Rank by IAA
M. Bowden BOS, 1, 184
J. Manship MIN, 2, 209
J. Nunez CHW, 3, 210
N. Feliz TEX, 4, 113
J. Marshall OAK, 5, 199
Who would you rather have on your team, the WHIP leaders (Bowden, Manship, Nunez, Feliz, and Marshall) or the IAA leaders (Haren, Lincecum, Vazquez, Halladay, and Carpenter?)
OK, I would love to have a player named MANSHIP on my team, admittedly.
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This approach allows for the creation of other interesting stats as well; in both leagues to date, the average pitcher allows one home run every 8.5 innings; who's the toughest pitchers to hit home runs off of? Just throw together an Innings-above-average-(HR). That's IAA-HR = Innings - HR*8.5. Here's your top 10.
T. Lincecum SF 120.96769570011
J. Pineiro STL 112.389746416759
Z. Greinke KC 106.445644983462
C. Kershaw LA 93.3897464167585
C. Lee PHI 90.7794928335171
U. Jimenez COL 89.9235942668137
D. Lowe ATL 81.8235942668137
J. Johnson FLA 75.8794928335171
C. Carpenter STL 70.545644983462
C. Billingsley LA 63.9794928335171
And these guys should make you lip your chops if your team is scheduled against them
J. Moyer PHI -64.3851157662624
R. Harden CHC -67.9630650496141
J. Saunders ANA -68.329217199559
D. Bush MIL -72.3969128996692
T. Cahill OAK -79.9512679162073
B. Myers PHI -81.6748621830209
G. Olson SEA -86.9189636163175
J. Guthrie BAL -95.9953693495039
B. Looper MIL -110.1394707828
J. Geer SD -127.895369349504
This Geer kid has allowed 27 homers in only 103 innings; that's one every 3.8 innings, bless his heart.
Something else I haven't mentioned, but that appeals to my math-sense; these sorts of stats are always zero-sum; the sum of all player's values in these categories is always equal zero.
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Who would you rather have on your team, the WHIP leaders (Bowden, Manship, Nunez, Feliz, and Marshall) or the IAA leaders (Haren, Lincecum, Vazquez, Halladay, and Carpenter?)
Shouldn't there be some sort of inning/appearance threshold? It's not like a guy who pitches 10 innings all season without giving up a run "wins" the ERA title. Of that top 5 in WHIP that you listed, Feliz has the most innings - 8.2. The other 4 have combined for 7 or 8. Wouldn't you say that's way too small of a sample size to be relevent?
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Who would you rather have on your team, the WHIP leaders (Bowden, Manship, Nunez, Feliz, and Marshall) or the IAA leaders (Haren, Lincecum, Vazquez, Halladay, and Carpenter?)
Shouldn't there be some sort of inning/appearance threshold? It's not like a guy who pitches 10 innings all season without giving up a run "wins" the ERA title. Of that top 5 in WHIP that you listed, Feliz has the most innings - 8.2. The other 4 have combined for 7 or 8. Wouldn't you say that's way too small of a sample size to be relevent?
In fact, EVERY sample size is too small to be relevent; that's why the imposition of a totally arbitrary innings or at bats limit doesn't hold up. Imagine that players must have to have 350 at bats to qualify for a batting title (I don't know the exact number.) Who was the more effective hitter, the guy who batted .400 in 345 at bats, or the guy who batted .340 in 500 at bats? If these are 2 different guys at the end of the season, the .340 hitter gets the batting title because he exceeded the minimum number of at bats; but if these were 2 snapshots of the same guy in the same season, after he went 138 for 345 to get to .400, he would have to follow it with 32 for 155 (a .206 average) to wind up at 170 for 500, and there would be countless articles about how badly the guy fell off in the last third of the season despite winning the batting title. Assuming a league batting average of .270, the 138 for 345 guy is 45 hits ahead of "average performance"; the 170 for 500 guy is only 35 hits ahead of the average performance. How can he be considered better?
Here's another thing to consider; if you hold your nose and consider a player's single season of 170 for 500 to be a random sample, rules for confidence intervals determine that the (95%) margin of error associated with this performance is E = 1.96*sqrt(170*330/500^3) = app .042; that's right, the margin of error associated with a 340 batting average is 42 POINTS! That means that at best you can claim his ability on a global scale is anywhere between .298 and .382. Similarly, the 138 for 345 guy can reasonably be assumed to have a batting average anywhere between .348 and .452. There's a gulf between these guys, but there's no statistically significant difference between them, in the sense of "adequate sample size". In fact, with approximately 600 - 650 at bats, there's no significant difference between .320, .330, .340, and .350.
One thing that always gets me, particularly as the allstar break approaches is the significance sports announcers give to batting average. At that point, regular players will typically have around 300 at bats, and you will hear how this player has a very respectable .290 batting average, while another is experiencing a disappointing .260. But in real terms, which you hardly ever hear about, that's a grand total of 9 hits difference. Spread over about 90 games (the all-star break's typically after the half), that means "very respectable" is getting about 1 additional hit every 9-10 games. And since nearly half of all base hits occur in innings during which no runs are scored, it really means about 1 MEANINGFUL hit every 15-18 games.
They also like to whine about things like "He's only got 5 hits in his last 30 at bats" This is consistent for a player whose batting average is anywhere between .036 and .298. In other words, it's meaningless. This is why I frequently listen to Night People and the like while watching baseball with the sound turned down.
Too much response to a simple question?
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Who would you rather have on your team, the WHIP leaders (Bowden, Manship, Nunez, Feliz, and Marshall) or the IAA leaders (Haren, Lincecum, Vazquez, Halladay, and Carpenter?)
Shouldn't there be some sort of inning/appearance threshold? It's not like a guy who pitches 10 innings all season without giving up a run "wins" the ERA title. Of that top 5 in WHIP that you listed, Feliz has the most innings - 8.2. The other 4 have combined for 7 or 8. Wouldn't you say that's way too small of a sample size to be relevent?
In fact, EVERY sample size is too small to be relevent; that's why the imposition of a totally arbitrary innings or at bats limit doesn't hold up. Imagine that players must have to have 350 at bats to qualify for a batting title (I don't know the exact number.) Who was the more effective hitter, the guy who batted .400 in 345 at bats, or the guy who batted .340 in 500 at bats? If these are 2 different guys at the end of the season, the .340 hitter gets the batting title because he exceeded the minimum number of at bats; but if these were 2 snapshots of the same guy in the same season, after he went 138 for 345 to get to .400, he would have to follow it with 32 for 155 (a .206 average) to wind up at 170 for 500, and there would be countless articles about how badly the guy fell off in the last third of the season despite winning the batting title. Assuming a league batting average of .270, the 138 for 345 guy is 45 hits ahead of "average performance"; the 170 for 500 guy is only 35 hits ahead of the average performance. How can he be considered better?
Here's another thing to consider; if you hold your nose and consider a player's single season of 170 for 500 to be a random sample, rules for confidence intervals determine that the (95%) margin of error associated with this performance is E = 1.96*sqrt(170*330/500^3) = app .042; that's right, the margin of error associated with a 340 batting average is 42 POINTS! That means that at best you can claim his ability on a global scale is anywhere between .298 and .382. Similarly, the 138 for 345 guy can reasonably be assumed to have a batting average anywhere between .348 and .452. There's a gulf between these guys, but there's no statistically significant difference between them, in the sense of "adequate sample size". In fact, with approximately 600 - 650 at bats, there's no significant difference between .320, .330, .340, and .350.
One thing that always gets me, particularly as the allstar break approaches is the significance sports announcers give to batting average. At that point, regular players will typically have around 300 at bats, and you will hear how this player has a very respectable .290 batting average, while another is experiencing a disappointing .260. But in real terms, which you hardly ever hear about, that's a grand total of 9 hits difference. Spread over about 90 games (the all-star break's typically after the half), that means "very respectable" is getting about 1 additional hit every 9-10 games. And since nearly half of all base hits occur in innings during which no runs are scored, it really means about 1 MEANINGFUL hit every 15-18 games.
They also like to whine about things like "He's only got 5 hits in his last 30 at bats" This is consistent for a player whose batting average is anywhere between .036 and .298. In other words, it's meaningless. This is why I frequently listen to Night People and the like while watching baseball with the sound turned down.
Too much response to a simple question?
No, seemed like a fair rebuttal and I can't really counter with anything because most of that stuff is way over my head.
I guess when it comes down to it, I admire all of these finely tuned statistics but they really don't add anything to my enjoyment of the game. They just make my head hurt.
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I'm going to watch Carpenter pitch and (hopefully) the Redbirds rake tonight at Dodger Stadium. Pray I don't get my hat sliced, cholo-style.
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I'm going to watch Carpenter pitch and (hopefully) the Redbirds rake tonight at Dodger Stadium. Pray I don't get my hat sliced, cholo-style.
Is that a problem out in Chavez Ravine? I always thought there were enough out-of-towners in LA for fans of The Other Team to be okay out there.
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I'm going to watch Carpenter pitch and (hopefully) the Redbirds rake tonight at Dodger Stadium. Pray I don't get my hat sliced, cholo-style.
Is that a problem out in Chavez Ravine? I always thought there were enough out-of-towners in LA for fans of The Other Team to be okay out there.
It happened to some Cardinal fan during the playoffs once. I've never really had a problem, but that's because I have manners. I will be especially reserved tonight as it'll be just my wife and I.
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Watch your back, hugman.
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I have this constantly changing formula that I use to assess the value of fantasy players to date. It uses the "classic four" categories of BA, HR, RBI, and SB. The current formula is RATING = .122*HITS - .0329*AT BATS + .167*HOME RUNS + .0714*RUNS BATTED IN + .143*STOLEN BASES - 3.50. At bats are negative, because of your player goes to the plate and completes an at bat without a hit, your batting average drops. The big negative constant at the end has to do with linear equations and y-intercepts. If you had only three players in your league, and the home run totals were 10, 9, and 8, with corresponding points of 3, 2, and 1 awarded, the appropriate formula to predict points would be RATING = HOME RUNS - 7, so that if you plug in 10 home runs you get 3 points, 9 homers gives you 2 points, and so on. These constants are almost always negative in "counting" categories, and almost always negative in "ratio" categories. The rating is called "ROTN points" because our Fantasy League, now in year 26, is ROTisserie of Nashville.
Here's the top 40 as of today.
Rank, Name, Team, AB, H, BA, HR, RBI, SB, ROTN points
1 A. Pujols STL 412 134 0.325 38 104 11 14.6
2 C. Crawford TB 464 148 0.319 12 58 54 13.1
3 H. Ramirez FLA 427 152 0.356 18 82 22 13
4 M. Reynolds ARI 431 122 0.283 37 81 21 12.1
5 P. Fielder MIL 424 131 0.309 30 105 2 11.3
6 R. Braun MIL 453 143 0.316 26 86 10 10.9
7 M. Kemp LA 440 137 0.311 17 76 25 10.5
8 J. Mauer MIN 353 133 0.377 22 73 2 10.2
9 B. Abreu ANA 410 127 0.31 11 79 25 9.5
10 J. Morneau MIN 441 132 0.299 28 94 0 9.4
11 M. Holliday STL 431 138 0.32 16 76 14 9.2
12 J. Ellsbury BOS 451 134 0.297 6 37 53 9.2
13 M. Cabrera DET 436 144 0.33 24 70 2 9
14 C. Utley PHI 412 121 0.294 24 76 13 9
15 M. Teixeira NYY 449 128 0.285 30 86 2 8.7
16 D. Jeter NYY 473 153 0.323 15 53 20 8.7
17 I. Suzuki SEA 486 175 0.36 7 34 23 8.7
18 R. Howard PHI 439 118 0.269 30 91 5 8.6
19 A. Hill TOR 504 145 0.288 28 80 4 8.5
20 A. Dunn WAS 400 114 0.285 31 86 0 8.5
21 J. Bartlett TB 351 120 0.342 11 56 21 8.4
22 J. Upton ARI 392 118 0.301 20 66 16 8.3
23 R. Zimmerman WAS 453 138 0.305 24 78 1 8.1
24 R. Ibanez PHI 360 105 0.292 27 78 4 8.1
25 P. Sandoval SF 421 139 0.33 18 69 4 8.1
26 D. Wright NYM 426 138 0.324 8 55 24 8
27 E. Longoria TB 416 116 0.279 24 88 5 7.9
28 K. Morales ANA 401 122 0.304 25 76 1 7.9
29 C. Lee HOU 444 139 0.313 19 74 3 7.7
30 J. Bay BOS 390 101 0.259 25 83 11 7.6
31 I. Kinsler TEX 402 100 0.249 25 66 23 7.6
32 C. Figgins ANA 446 139 0.312 3 43 37 7.6
33 A. Gonzalez SD 409 114 0.279 32 72 1 7.5
34 A. Ethier LA 441 124 0.281 24 80 5 7.5
35 M. Young TEX 457 145 0.317 20 55 7 7.4
36 A. Lind TOR 444 131 0.295 24 74 1 7.3
37 R. Cano NYY 471 151 0.321 18 60 4 7.2
38 T. Hunter ANA 291 89 0.306 17 67 13 7.2
39 T. Tulowitzki COL 392 108 0.276 23 63 15 7.2
40 N. Cruz TEX 342 92 0.269 25 58 17 7.2
Here's the bottom 20 (almost exclusively NL pitchers)
Rank, Name, Team, AB, H, BA, HR, RBI, SB, ROTN points
839 L. Hernandez NYM 39 5 0.128 0 0 0 -4.2
840 J. Happ PHI 32 3 0.094 0 0 0 -4.2
841 C. Kershaw LA 38 4 0.105 0 1 0 -4.2
842 B. Nelson MIL 21 0 0 0 0 0 -4.2
843 T. Wellemeyer STL 37 4 0.108 0 0 0 -4.3
844 D. Hernandez ATL 85 12 0.141 1 6 0 -4.3
845 J. Smith HOU 25 0 0 0 1 0 -4.3
846 R. Dempster CHC 41 3 0.073 0 3 0 -4.3
847 B. Arroyo CIN 42 5 0.119 0 0 0 -4.3
848 C. Gaudin NYY 28 1 0.036 0 0 0 -4.3
849 J. Sanchez SF 28 1 0.036 0 0 0 -4.3
850 P. Maholm PIT 45 3 0.067 1 2 0 -4.3
851 T. Lilly CHC 40 3 0.075 0 2 0 -4.3
852 E. Bruntlett PHI 85 11 0.129 0 6 1 -4.4
853 W. Rodriguez HOU 44 4 0.091 0 1 0 -4.4
854 T. Pena KC 51 5 0.098 0 2 0 -4.5
855 B. Moehler HOU 32 1 0.031 0 0 0 -4.5
856 J. Blanton PHI 36 2 0.056 0 0 0 -4.5
857 J. Garland ARI 51 5 0.098 0 0 0 -4.6
858 R. Ohlendorf PIT 46 3 0.065 0 0 0 -4.7
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I'm going to watch Carpenter pitch and (hopefully) the Redbirds rake tonight at Dodger Stadium. Pray I don't get my hat sliced, cholo-style.
Is that a problem out in Chavez Ravine? I always thought there were enough out-of-towners in LA for fans of The Other Team to be okay out there.
It happened to some Cardinal fan during the playoffs once. I've never really had a problem, but that's because I have manners. I will be especially reserved tonight as it'll be just my wife and I.
Yikes. I didn't know cholos could swing playoff tickets. Seems a pricey way to stab people. Hope you have a safe outing.
Was that incident in the 2004 division series? Back then, I was working for a company that produced in-stadium programs, including the Dodgers. They gave us such a hard time all year, particularly with photos. They would send us the shittiest digital photos and get mad when we couldn't match the unis to DODGER BLUE. Blue's a really hard color to get right--it pretty much reflects every other nearby color. Particularly in shitty, shitty jpegs. We tried to explain this to them, but it never prevented the Dodgers from sending us crummy photos of Jose Lima in a red room, then bitching us out because we couldn't remove all of the red from his uniform.
They were also horrible about their playoff edition program, to the point where I really wanted them to flame out against the Cards. But I also hoped they'd win at least one game, thus forcing a 4-game series, so that all that pain-in-the-ass-ery wasn't for just one game's worth of programs.
It was a pretty great job, all things considered. Just some annoyances like that. But I didn't like the Dodgers before then, and I REALLY don't like them now.
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Here's the bottom 20 (almost exclusively NL pitchers)
I was going to ask how some of those pitchers could be on the bottom but then I realized that was specifically for hitting.
Do you guys count pitcher's hitting stats?
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Here's the bottom 20 (almost exclusively NL pitchers)
I was going to ask how some of those pitchers could be on the bottom but then I realized that was specifically for hitting.
Do you guys count pitcher's hitting stats?
Nah, it was just too much work to extract them (this might appear twice.)
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I'm going to watch Carpenter pitch and (hopefully) the Redbirds rake tonight at Dodger Stadium. Pray I don't get my hat sliced, cholo-style.
Is that a problem out in Chavez Ravine? I always thought there were enough out-of-towners in LA for fans of The Other Team to be okay out there.
It happened to some Cardinal fan during the playoffs once. I've never really had a problem, but that's because I have manners. I will be especially reserved tonight as it'll be just my wife and I.
Yikes. I didn't know cholos could swing playoff tickets. Seems a pricey way to stab people. Hope you have a safe outing.
Was that incident in the 2004 division series? Back then, I was working for a company that produced in-stadium programs, including the Dodgers. They gave us such a hard time all year, particularly with photos. They would send us the shittiest digital photos and get mad when we couldn't match the unis to DODGER BLUE. Blue's a really hard color to get right--it pretty much reflects every other nearby color. Particularly in shitty, shitty jpegs. We tried to explain this to them, but it never prevented the Dodgers from sending us crummy photos of Jose Lima in a red room, then bitching us out because we couldn't remove all of the red from his uniform.
They were also horrible about their playoff edition program, to the point where I really wanted them to flame out against the Cards. But I also hoped they'd win at least one game, thus forcing a 4-game series, so that all that pain-in-the-ass-ery wasn't for just one game's worth of programs.
It was a pretty great job, all things considered. Just some annoyances like that. But I didn't like the Dodgers before then, and I REALLY don't like them now.
I think it was 2004. Cholos are making things happen out here. You think low-riders are cheap, homie? I ended up going with my friend. I can never keep my mouth shut when the Cardinals play the Dodgers. I just can't take it when Dodger fans boo Albert Pujols for no reason whatsoever, like a large percentage of them do. Does this happen in other ballparks? jbissell, do cubs fans boo Albert Pujols? because that I can understand. but dodger fans should just shut up and be glad they get to say they saw Albert Pujols play baseball.
Round two tomorrow.
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I don't know why you wouldn't be excited about the Cubs. They're shaping up to be the best team in the National League.
What the hell was I thinking?
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I'm going to watch Carpenter pitch and (hopefully) the Redbirds rake tonight at Dodger Stadium. Pray I don't get my hat sliced, cholo-style.
Is that a problem out in Chavez Ravine? I always thought there were enough out-of-towners in LA for fans of The Other Team to be okay out there.
It happened to some Cardinal fan during the playoffs once. I've never really had a problem, but that's because I have manners. I will be especially reserved tonight as it'll be just my wife and I.
Yikes. I didn't know cholos could swing playoff tickets. Seems a pricey way to stab people. Hope you have a safe outing.
Was that incident in the 2004 division series? Back then, I was working for a company that produced in-stadium programs, including the Dodgers. They gave us such a hard time all year, particularly with photos. They would send us the shittiest digital photos and get mad when we couldn't match the unis to DODGER BLUE. Blue's a really hard color to get right--it pretty much reflects every other nearby color. Particularly in shitty, shitty jpegs. We tried to explain this to them, but it never prevented the Dodgers from sending us crummy photos of Jose Lima in a red room, then bitching us out because we couldn't remove all of the red from his uniform.
They were also horrible about their playoff edition program, to the point where I really wanted them to flame out against the Cards. But I also hoped they'd win at least one game, thus forcing a 4-game series, so that all that pain-in-the-ass-ery wasn't for just one game's worth of programs.
It was a pretty great job, all things considered. Just some annoyances like that. But I didn't like the Dodgers before then, and I REALLY don't like them now.
I think it was 2004. Cholos are making things happen out here. You think low-riders are cheap, homie? I ended up going with my friend. I can never keep my mouth shut when the Cardinals play the Dodgers. I just can't take it when Dodger fans boo Albert Pujols for no reason whatsoever, like a large percentage of them do. Does this happen in other ballparks? jbissell, do cubs fans boo Albert Pujols? because that I can understand. but dodger fans should just shut up and be glad they get to say they saw Albert Pujols play baseball.
Round two tomorrow.
I feel like that "I boo you cuz you're good for the other team!" thing happens in most parks now, and I agree it's stupid. Booing should be reserved for the truly reprehensible. Just being agreat player who plays for The Other Team is not a booable offense.
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I just can't take it when Dodger fans boo Albert Pujols for no reason whatsoever, like a large percentage of them do. Does this happen in other ballparks? jbissell, do cubs fans boo Albert Pujols? because that I can understand.
I haven't been to a Cubs/Cards game in a few years, but he definitely gets booed. Not very surprising since he's the best player on our #1 rival. There are also plenty of "Cards take it in the Poo-holes" (or something to that effect) shirts, which I feel plenty of shame about. Personally Pujols has never really bothered me. He's never really been a Cub-killer, it's been the Ludwick types (also, scrappy utility guys) that really hurt us the last few years. He's the best hitter I've ever seen and seems like a pretty good guy so I would never boo him unless he did something to deserve it.
I feel like that "I boo you cuz you're good for the other team!" thing happens in most parks now, and I agree it's stupid. Booing should be reserved for the truly reprehensible. Just being agreat player who plays for The Other Team is not a booable offense.
What actually bothers me more is how quickly fans (I'm talking Cubs but I'm sure it's similar for other teams) turn on their own team. I just don't see what is accomplished by booing a guy who is struggling, as long as he's giving effort. The only time I've ever booed anyone on a team I love is if they are clearly not trying.
I don't know why you wouldn't be excited about the Cubs. They're shaping up to be the best team in the National League.
What the hell was I thinking?
You underestimated the Kevin Gregg experience. Last night was it for me. This season is officially dead. Now I can only hope that Holliday continues to put up crazy numbers and the Cards can't afford to bring him back next year. While injuries certainly have played a big role in this mediocre season, there's definitely a lot of retooling to be done this offseason. I just hope the sale of the team will get settled so they have some money to make a few moves (like getting a real leadoff hitter).
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It's been a couple of years since I've been to Busch stadium, but if I think back I seem to remember being surprised to find people booing, and I understand that in our Idiocracy-esque world we live in it's actually a sign of respect.
QUESTION: If you were at your home stadium and you caught a Pujols homerun ball, would you throw it back?
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It's been a couple of years since I've been to Busch stadium, but if I think back I seem to remember being surprised to find people booing, and I understand that in our Idiocracy-esque world we live in it's actually a sign of respect.
QUESTION: If you were at your home stadium and you caught a Pujols homerun ball, would you throw it back?
Man, I'd be so excited if I ever caught a ball, I don't think I would be able to give it up, no matter who hit it.
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It's been a couple of years since I've been to Busch stadium, but if I think back I seem to remember being surprised to find people booing, and I understand that in our Idiocracy-esque world we live in it's actually a sign of respect.
QUESTION: If you were at your home stadium and you caught a Pujols homerun ball, would you throw it back?
No way. Then again, I once fished a foul ball out of a garbage can at Shea, so clearly I have no shame.
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The closest I ever came to catching an HR ball is when Jay Bell hit one into the centerfield GA section at Three Rivers Stadium. It landed in the empty seat next to mine and then bounced into the section above my seats where someone else got it. Then I was at a baseball game with my mother a few years ago and a foul ball literally landed in her lap.
I can't win.
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I'm sure you all thought of me when you heard that the Cards signed Smoltz. I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully he can serve as a better option as a fifth starter and a nice weapon in the setup role perhaps. At the least, his experience and wisdom in the clubhouse can only help.
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I'm sure you all thought of me when you heard that the Cards signed Smoltz. I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully he can serve as a better option as a fifth starter and a nice weapon in the setup role perhaps. At the least, his experience and wisdom in the clubhouse can only help.
Isn't this season over yet?
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I'm sure you all thought of me when you heard that the Cards signed Smoltz. I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully he can serve as a better option as a fifth starter and a nice weapon in the setup role perhaps. At the least, his experience and wisdom in the clubhouse can only help.
Going back to the NL should help him. I hope so — I've always liked Smoltz, and I'd like to see him go out in a better way than his Red Sox stint.
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I'm sure you all thought of me when you heard that the Cards signed Smoltz. I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully he can serve as a better option as a fifth starter and a nice weapon in the setup role perhaps. At the least, his experience and wisdom in the clubhouse can only help.
Going back to the NL should help him. I hope so — I've always liked Smoltz, and I'd like to see him go out in a better way than his Red Sox stint.
Of all the Braves' 1990s aces, he's the one I despised the least. Then again, he's also said some kinda kuh-razy homophobic stuff (http://www.sovo.com/2004/7-9/news/localnews/smoltz.cfm) in the past.
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I'm sure you all thought of me when you heard that the Cards signed Smoltz. I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully he can serve as a better option as a fifth starter and a nice weapon in the setup role perhaps. At the least, his experience and wisdom in the clubhouse can only help.
Going back to the NL should help him. I hope so — I've always liked Smoltz, and I'd like to see him go out in a better way than his Red Sox stint.
Of all the Braves' 1990s aces, he's the one I despised the least. Then again, he's also said some kinda kuh-razy homophobic stuff (http://www.sovo.com/2004/7-9/news/localnews/smoltz.cfm) in the past.
i'm sure if we polled every major league player on their opinion on gay marriage it would be enough to make me stop following baseball. maybe we should so I could get a shitload more done between april and october.
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I'm sure you all thought of me when you heard that the Cards signed Smoltz. I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully he can serve as a better option as a fifth starter and a nice weapon in the setup role perhaps. At the least, his experience and wisdom in the clubhouse can only help.
Going back to the NL should help him. I hope so — I've always liked Smoltz, and I'd like to see him go out in a better way than his Red Sox stint.
Of all the Braves' 1990s aces, he's the one I despised the least. Then again, he's also said some kinda kuh-razy homophobic stuff (http://www.sovo.com/2004/7-9/news/localnews/smoltz.cfm) in the past.
i'm sure if we polled every major league player on their opinion on gay marriage it would be enough to make me stop following baseball. maybe we should so I could get a shitload more done between april and october.
yeah, i'd imagine there's not too much of a Venn intersection between my political views and that of the average major leaguer.
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I'm sure you all thought of me when you heard that the Cards signed Smoltz. I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully he can serve as a better option as a fifth starter and a nice weapon in the setup role perhaps. At the least, his experience and wisdom in the clubhouse can only help.
Going back to the NL should help him. I hope so — I've always liked Smoltz, and I'd like to see him go out in a better way than his Red Sox stint.
Of all the Braves' 1990s aces, he's the one I despised the least.
What was your problem with Maddux? Of course I disliked him with the Braves because the Cubs fucked up so bad.
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I'm sure you all thought of me when you heard that the Cards signed Smoltz. I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully he can serve as a better option as a fifth starter and a nice weapon in the setup role perhaps. At the least, his experience and wisdom in the clubhouse can only help.
Going back to the NL should help him. I hope so — I've always liked Smoltz, and I'd like to see him go out in a better way than his Red Sox stint.
Of all the Braves' 1990s aces, he's the one I despised the least.
What was your problem with Maddux? Of course I disliked him with the Braves because the Cubs fucked up so bad.
I have no idea. He just bugged me. Especially later in his career, when he'd be pitching a shutout through six innings with only 70 pitches under his belt and take himself out anyway.
I mean, I can totally separate my admiration for a player's ability from my personal feelings toward them. Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine are three of the best pitchers of their era. I'm just not particularly fond of any of them.
If I was a baseball writer, I would totally give a Hall of Fame vote to, say, Chipper Jones--even though if I ever met him in person, I'm pretty sure I would punch (and then run away as fast as I could).
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I'm sure you all thought of me when you heard that the Cards signed Smoltz. I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully he can serve as a better option as a fifth starter and a nice weapon in the setup role perhaps. At the least, his experience and wisdom in the clubhouse can only help.
Going back to the NL should help him. I hope so — I've always liked Smoltz, and I'd like to see him go out in a better way than his Red Sox stint.
Of all the Braves' 1990s aces, he's the one I despised the least.
What was your problem with Maddux? Of course I disliked him with the Braves because the Cubs fucked up so bad.
I have no idea. He just bugged me. Especially later in his career, when he'd be pitching a shutout through six innings with only 70 pitches under his belt and take himself out anyway.
I mean, I can totally separate my admiration for a player's ability from my personal feelings toward them. Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine are three of the best pitchers of their era. I'm just not particularly fond of any of them.
If I was a baseball writer, I would totally give a Hall of Fame vote to, say, Chipper Jones--even though if I ever met him in person, I'm pretty sure I would punch (and then run away as fast as I could).
I tend to dislike the Atlanta Braves in general, but largely because I'm a Twins fan and Braves fans will not ever shut the hell up about Kent Hrbek "pulling" Ron Gant off the bag.
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I'm sure you all thought of me when you heard that the Cards signed Smoltz. I'm optimistic about this. Hopefully he can serve as a better option as a fifth starter and a nice weapon in the setup role perhaps. At the least, his experience and wisdom in the clubhouse can only help.
Going back to the NL should help him. I hope so — I've always liked Smoltz, and I'd like to see him go out in a better way than his Red Sox stint.
Of all the Braves' 1990s aces, he's the one I despised the least.
What was your problem with Maddux? Of course I disliked him with the Braves because the Cubs fucked up so bad.
I have no idea. He just bugged me. Especially later in his career, when he'd be pitching a shutout through six innings with only 70 pitches under his belt and take himself out anyway.
I mean, I can totally separate my admiration for a player's ability from my personal feelings toward them. Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine are three of the best pitchers of their era. I'm just not particularly fond of any of them.
If I was a baseball writer, I would totally give a Hall of Fame vote to, say, Chipper Jones--even though if I ever met him in person, I'm pretty sure I would punch (and then run away as fast as I could).
I tend to dislike the Atlanta Braves in general, but largely because I'm a Twins fan and Braves fans will not ever shut the hell up about Kent Hrbek "pulling" Ron Gant off the bag.
To be fair, he totally did. But I haven't exactly shed too many tears about it, either.
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And I wish Dan Gladden had broken his ankles with that little jump onto the plate. That 91 World Series was pretty crushing.
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And I wish Dan Gladden had broken his ankles with that little jump onto the plate. That 91 World Series was pretty crushing.
Oh, boo effin' hoo, at least the Braves got something like 14 consecutive division titles and a '95 World Series win and got to get called "America's Team" and all that nonsense. Puckett got glaucoma and Hrbek retired and the Twins wound up a 90-loss team for most of the rest of the decade. They wound up fielding lineups like this (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/1999.shtml) and almost got contracted. And now Mauer's going to lose the MVP to Mark Teixiera because the starting rotation can't get into the 4th inning anymore and the Twins are struggling to get to .500. I'm starting to think the post-'91 Twins are panning out a lot like the post '86 Mets, only without the benefit of ever getting to hear Scott Leius rap about getting Twinergized.
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That's not all Puckett got.
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That's not all Puckett got.
:o
Anyway, I'm with Nate on this one. Post-1991, the Braves were winning division titles and going to World Series' while the Twins were fielding the likes of Scott Stahoviak and Midre Cummings. So quit your complaining.
And you want to talk about the '91 World Series being crushing, how about the '92 NLCS? I still have emotional scars from that series. Plus, it sent the Pirates on a downward slide from which they have never recovered.
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I stopped feeling bad for Braves fans when they stopped selling out playoff games.
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Not enough Bruntlett love youse guys.
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Chase Utley got robbed.
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Did any of you baseball freaks catch Gene Weingarten's column this week regarding left handed catchers.
I thought of you guys when I read it.
My speculative answer to his query: because there are more right-handed batters than left-handers.
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Did any of you baseball freaks catch Gene Weingarten's column this week regarding left handed catchers.
I thought of you guys when I read it.
My speculative answer to his query: because there are more right-handed batters than left-handers.
I still think the "if your left arm's strong enough to throw out a runner, maybe you should use it to pitch instead" theory makes the most sense to me.
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Did any of you baseball freaks catch Gene Weingarten's column this week regarding left handed catchers.
I thought of you guys when I read it.
My speculative answer to his query: because there are more right-handed batters than left-handers.
I still think the "if your left arm's strong enough to throw out a runner, maybe you should use it to pitch instead" theory makes the most sense to me.
You may have it dere, Stupe.
Did you read the column? pretty funny regarding number freaks.
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Not enough Bruntlett love youse guys.
luckiest/unluckiest thing ever. aided, of course, by the mind-meltingly stupid decision to send the runners. I'm beginning to suspect Jerry Manuel isn't very smart. Or wants to be fired.
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Not enough Bruntlett love youse guys.
luckiest/unluckiest thing ever. aided, of course, by the mind-meltingly stupid decision to send the runners. I'm beginning to suspect Jerry Manuel isn't very smart. Or wants to be fired.
It's such a fluke I wouldn't read too much into it. Though there have been way more unassisted triple plays in recent years. It's probably just chance, but I wonder if hit and run is more common or something.
There have been 7 cycles this year, a perfect game, a cool home-stealing play, and now this. What weird ass thing is left? 4 homers in one game?
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Not enough Bruntlett love youse guys.
luckiest/unluckiest thing ever. aided, of course, by the mind-meltingly stupid decision to send the runners. I'm beginning to suspect Jerry Manuel isn't very smart. Or wants to be fired.
It's such a fluke I wouldn't read too much into it. Though there have been way more unassisted triple plays in recent years. It's probably just chance, but I wonder if hit and run is more common or something.
There have been 7 cycles this year, a perfect game, a cool home-stealing play, and now this. What weird ass thing is left? 4 homers in one game?
A left-handed catcher?
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Not enough Bruntlett love youse guys.
luckiest/unluckiest thing ever. aided, of course, by the mind-meltingly stupid decision to send the runners. I'm beginning to suspect Jerry Manuel isn't very smart. Or wants to be fired.
It's such a fluke I wouldn't read too much into it. Though there have been way more unassisted triple plays in recent years. It's probably just chance, but I wonder if hit and run is more common or something.
There have been 7 cycles this year, a perfect game, a cool home-stealing play, and now this. What weird ass thing is left? 4 homers in one game?
weird thing is, i have a feeling there's less hit and run than there used to be. i have no evidence to support that, but it's such a risky move (case in point: unassisted triple play) and it's so un-sabermetric-y, i feel like most managers stay away from it. then again, most managers seem to be violently anti-stats, so who knows.
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John Mozeliak is the Executive of the Year, IMO. He turned a middling team into possibly the best team in the National League.
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He's got a chance but I think it might go to Sabean who really did a great job with the Giants. People doubted him for years as he put old veterans on the field and maybe he didn't need to do that...but the team now is setup pretty great and they'll be able to make some moves to make them real contenders next year.
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here's my prediction for the NL playoffs. The Phillies will dispense of either the Rockies or Giants and the Cardinals will handle the Dodgers. I have a really bad feeling about Lee. I feel like he's going to Schilling us to death.
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And yes, I said "us". I'm on the team.
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The Phillies are going to kill everyone in the NL. They are so much better than anybody else in that league.
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The Phillies are going to kill everyone in the NL. They are so much better than anybody else in that league.
Their lineup is fantastic, but I'm not sure about the rest of the team. Cliff Lee's awesome, but Hamels has been totally up and down this year, and all their other starters are mediocre at best. The bullpen's good, but Brad Lidge is as bad this year as he was last year (at least lately).
Then again, I also thought pretty much the same thing last year (with variations on the players, of course), so who knows? I could see the Phillies either storming all the way to the World Series again, or getting bounced if they run into good pitching. Neither would surprise me.
I think the Cards could stop them, because their starters are so good (although none of them are lefties, which puts them at a disadvantage). Giants and Rockies, possibly but not likely. Dodgers, no.
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I agree with gilly in that the Phils are the best team in the National League. However, I don't think they are THAT much better than the Cardinals. The additions of Holliday, DeRosa, and Lugo really solidified their lineup. They have the best player in the game in Fat Albert. And they have the best starting rotation in the NL. However, I think their main weakness is at closer. I don't trust Ryan Franklin. I think his success can be attributed more to luck than anything else.
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I think his success can be attributed more to luck than anything else.
Sometimes that's all you need. Broxton's recent implosion has left Franklin as the most reliable closer in the NL right now.
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I think his success can be attributed more to luck than anything else.
Sometimes that's all you need. Broxton's recent implosion has left Franklin as the most reliable closer in the NL right now.
Or have a good defense behind you, which the Cards mostly do. There's no butchers on their field, anyway.
I think Lidge's success last year = Leaving A Totally Clueless Organization + Luck. He didn't blow a single save in 08, and yet I felt like 9 times out 10 that I saw him pitch, he'd teeter on the brink of implosion.
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The Cardinals have a knack for coming together as a team and playing above their abilities. See '06 and the first half of this season. But like I said, the Phils scare me. And I hate them so much, too.
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It should come as no surprise that TLR, Dave Duncan, and Chris Carpenter have adjusted Smoltz's mechanics since he came over and he's succeeding thus far.
The three of them watched him throw a bullpen session and Carpenter noticed he was tipping every pitch. They adjusted the angle at which he held his glove in his approach, and Smoltz has a 0.82 era, 15 k's and 1 walk in 11 innings so far. He's yet to go deeper than 6 innings, but I don't think they ever expected him to pitch more than 6 very often.
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Did any of you baseball freaks catch Gene Weingarten's column this week regarding left handed catchers.
I thought of you guys when I read it.
My speculative answer to his query: because there are more right-handed batters than left-handers.
I still think the "if your left arm's strong enough to throw out a runner, maybe you should use it to pitch instead" theory makes the most sense to me.
You may have it dere, Stupe.
Did you read the column? pretty funny regarding number freaks.
You take that back
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This hasn't been discussed yet.
The Wilpons may be forced to sell the Mets. (http://www.nypost.com/seven/07162009/gossip/pagesix/mets_owner_wilpon_lost_700m_to_madoff_179496.htm)
Interesting, if true.
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It should come as no surprise that TLR, Dave Duncan, and Chris Carpenter have adjusted Smoltz's mechanics since he came over and he's succeeding thus far.
The three of them watched him throw a bullpen session and Carpenter noticed he was tipping every pitch. They adjusted the angle at which he held his glove in his approach, and Smoltz has a 0.82 era, 15 k's and 1 walk in 11 innings so far. He's yet to go deeper than 6 innings, but I don't think they ever expected him to pitch more than 6 very often.
Not to take anything away from his fine starts, but they were against two of the worst teams in baseball.
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It should come as no surprise that TLR, Dave Duncan, and Chris Carpenter have adjusted Smoltz's mechanics since he came over and he's succeeding thus far.
The three of them watched him throw a bullpen session and Carpenter noticed he was tipping every pitch. They adjusted the angle at which he held his glove in his approach, and Smoltz has a 0.82 era, 15 k's and 1 walk in 11 innings so far. He's yet to go deeper than 6 innings, but I don't think they ever expected him to pitch more than 6 very often.
Not to take anything away from his fine starts, but they were against two of the worst teams in baseball.
yea, there's that.
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I think Lincecum is gonna get the Cy Young again. We'll see what happens in this big month for him. I love athletes that don't look like athletes. Seriously.
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You must have been John Kruk's biggest fan then. In fact, that whole '93 Phillies team looked like (was) a bunch of unathletic schlubs.
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(http://gothamist.com/attachments/NYC_Billy/2009_09_wrighthelmet.jpg)
.
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You must have been John Kruk's biggest fan then. In fact, that whole '93 Phillies team looked like (was) a bunch of unathletic schlubs.
Nah, cuz he still looks like a total jock, albeit an out of shape one.
For instance, I LOVED when then clippers would have Cherokee Parks and Boinkins on the floor at the same time. Total freakshow. Watched them beat the lakers once. It was awesome.
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I know most of you guys are NL fans, but with Smoltz and now Penny's dominant returns to the National League, I'm going to just assume that a trade to a National League team is more statistically beneficial to an AL player than five steroid cycles. I fully expect Jim Thome to hit at least 15 home runs this month.
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I know most of you guys are NL fans, but with Smoltz and now Penny's dominant returns to the National League, I'm going to just assume that a trade to a National League team is more statistically beneficial to an AL player than five steroid cycles. I fully expect Jim Thome to hit at least 15 home runs this month.
it's definitely beneficial to pitchers, to the tune of shaving at least 0.50 off your ERA. I've never seen any statistical indication that it's better for hitters. I feel like, if anything, it'd be neutral or detrimental, because starters stick around longer/stay strong longer when they face a weak hitting pitcher every nine spots in a lineup, as opposed to a DH. But that's my totally unscientific hypothesis.
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I agree with scratchbomb. And there's just more talent in the AL.
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Cliff Lee pitches another gem & precious moments in the stands.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9a6Ni5ClXc&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
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I can totally see my 2-year-old doing that, too.
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Making a copyright claim? ;D
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Anybody still watching or following baseball? It looks like there are still two races that bear watching, those being the AL Central and the NL Wild Card. The biggest series of the season will be the upcoming four game set between the Twins and Tigers, which begins with a double header tomorrow.
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This is where the Twins excel. They're pitching will fail in the postseason if they make it though. I just wish that one of these years they'll be proactive and make some good signings in the offseason. One big signing and they'd have run away with the central and have a good chance in the playoffs.
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This is where the Twins excel. They're pitching will fail in the postseason if they make it though. I just wish that one of these years they'll be proactive and make some good signings in the offseason. One big signing and they'd have run away with the central and have a good chance in the playoffs.
I am a Brewers fan and a Wisconsinite, and generally have a 'friendly' rivalry with all things Minnesotan. But the Twins do things right. Stadium sucks, but that is a well run ball club. Rooting for that squad.
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I like the Brewers as well. The Twins do run a good squad but they are always one big signing away from winning it all. They have amazing coaches that equip them to win a weak division year after year but they need the ownership to step up to make them a real contender. But, it is nice as a huge baseball fan to have a team that stays good enough year after year. I had season tickets in the late 90's and that was rough, even though it was still awesome to watch baseball every night for next to nothing. Seriously, it was 82 dollars for the season ticket which was supposed to sit my friends and I in upper deck, right field. We sat right behind the Twins bullpen every game.
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i'm still paying attention, of course. pretty damn unsure about Franklin. Other than that I feel good. We'll see what happens.
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I'm still following the Red Sox, but even though before this weekends sweep they were the 'hottest team in baseball' I still feel uneasy about this team. They're amazing at home but mediocre on the road. I know this probably makes me a bad fan but part of me would just like to see them roll over in the ALDS so the Angels can take care of the Yankees. When I do the math, I probably hate the Yankees and especially their fans more than I actually like the Red Sox. A Yankees loss to the Angels would probably feel a little better than a Red Sox pennant win. I know, it's sick.
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I think the Mets are out. But the Braves are surging!
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If the Rockies can't hang on to the wildcard it's going to make me sick.
Also, this season for the Rockies makes me toss any "managers don't matter" theory in the trash heap. Here we have data: Managers matter. A lot. More so with midlevel teams.
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ps: Go fuck yourself MLB, for taking replays off of ESPN 360 the second people start actually using it.
This time next year I'll actually have a TV and a DVR, I hope.
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Oh, I also think if Wainwright picks up win number 20 this week and continues to pitch like he has throughout the playoffs (which he will) then he should have the Cy Young on lockdown. Emphasis on the word "should".
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This is where the Twins excel. They're pitching will fail in the postseason if they make it though. I just wish that one of these years they'll be proactive and make some good signings in the offseason. One big signing and they'd have run away with the central and have a good chance in the playoffs.
They should've figured out a way to get Harden. I hope they can get past the Tigers, I'd like to have at least one team I don't dislike in the playoffs.
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Oh, I also think if Wainwright picks up win number 20 this week and continues to pitch like he has throughout the playoffs (which he will) then he should have the Cy Young on lockdown. Emphasis on the word "should".
Playoff performance doesn't matter with the awards. I could be wrong but I thought they finished the voting by then.
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Oh, I also think if Wainwright picks up win number 20 this week and continues to pitch like he has throughout the playoffs (which he will) then he should have the Cy Young on lockdown. Emphasis on the word "should".
Playoff performance doesn't matter with the awards. I could be wrong but I thought they finished the voting by then.
can we get a ruling on this? if he dominates and gets win 20, i think that might be enough. it's funny, st. louis broadcasters and writers haven't even really started mentioning wainwright in the cy young conversation until this week. they were still clinging to carpenter.
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I will say it again; if it's not Dan Haren, the whole thing's a crock. And even if it is.
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I think the Mets are out. But the Braves are surging!
Why did you have to rub it in Dave-o?
I like the Braves chances though. They're certainly getting hot at the right time. How far can momentum carry a team in the postseason? I don't know. But what they do have in abundance is good pitching.
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Oh, I also think if Wainwright picks up win number 20 this week and continues to pitch like he has throughout the playoffs (which he will) then he should have the Cy Young on lockdown. Emphasis on the word "should".
Playoff performance doesn't matter with the awards. I could be wrong but I thought they finished the voting by then.
can we get a ruling on this? if he dominates and gets win 20, i think that might be enough. it's funny, st. louis broadcasters and writers haven't even really started mentioning wainwright in the cy young conversation until this week. they were still clinging to carpenter.
I think he's got a good shot.
I will say it again; if it's not Dan Haren, the whole thing's a crock. And even if it is.
Dave, I'm sure your formula says otherwise, but I just can't see how someone who is 11th in ERA, tied for 9th in wins, and 3rd in strikeouts is more deserving than Wainwright (1st IP & W, 3rd in ERA, 4th in Ks). Not to mention the fact that Wainwright has become an anchor for the team with the best record in the NL.
How dare you make me defend a Cardinal!
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I will say it again; if it's not Dan Haren, the whole thing's a crock. And even if it is.
You mean the guy who has given up 5 runs or more six times in the last 11 games? He had a great first half, and doesn't walk many batters but he's only been above average for a couple months now. I still give the edge to Lincecum but Wainwright and Carpenter both are deserving as well. Haren is a distant 4th. I mean the only thing he has going for him is he doesn't give batters a free pass. If that's the only criteria Carlos Silva should have won AL Cy Young and MVP a few years ago.
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I think the Mets are out. But the Braves are surging!
Why did you have to rub it in Dave-o?
I like the Braves chances though. They're certainly getting hot at the right time. How far can momentum carry a team in the postseason? I don't know. But what they do have in abundance is good pitching.
It appears that I spoke too soon. Oh well. There's always next year.
The Mets still suck, though.
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They had, as they always have had, an abundance of getting their asses kicked by the Marlins.
Marlins, Marlins, MARLINS.
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(http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2009/09/500x_custom_1254348346166_philliesfan.jpg)
Yep. Go Phils!
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Chris Carpenter hit a fudgin' grand slam today!
Oh, and a double.
He had six RBI's today.
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I legitimately wonder if that will help his Cy Young chances, doing that so late in the season.
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How much of the Cy Young is batting?
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I'd be shocked if Carp beat out Lincecum AND Waino.
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Another 5 runs for Haren tonight. Are you conceding yet DFK?
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I will have to run the numbers; he was so far ahead, 5 runs may not kill his chances.
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I will have to run the numbers; he was so far ahead, 5 runs may not kill his chances.
Isn't there something to be said for consistency? For whatever reason, his numbers always really drop off in the 2nd half.
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2 years ago was "Rocktober" and this year the local AM radio went as far as "Rocktember."
Now, the headline in the Denver Post is "Rock-2-ber: Rockies in playoffs for second time in three years."
I can't wait until Rockmas.
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Another 5 runs for Haren tonight. Are you conceding yet DFK?
The numbers don't lie; here's my 20 best NL batters
1) Albert Pujols 2) Hanley Ramirez 3) Ryan J Braun 4) Matt Kemp 5) Prince Fielder
6) Matt Holliday 7) Troy Tulowitzki 8) Pablo Sandoval 9) Ryan Howard 10) Derrek Lee
11) Mark Reynolds 12) Justin Upton 13) Chase Utley 14) Carlos Lee 15) Michael Bourn
16) Ryan Zimmerman 17) Joey Votto 18) Jayson Werth 19) Miguel Tejada 20) David Wright
My 10 best NL relievers
1) Jonathan Broxton 2) Heath Bell 3) Trevor Hoffman 4) Ryan Franklin 5) Huston Street
6) Brian Wilson 7) Francisco Cordero 8) Rafael Soriano 9) Jose Valverde 10) George Sherrill
And yes, I give, Haren's fallen just enough; my top ten NL starters
1) Chris Carpenter 2) Tim Lincecum 3) Dan Haren 4) Javier Vazquez 5) Adam Wainwright
6) Randy Wolf 7) Josh Johnson 8) Ted Lilly 9) Matt Cain 10) Joel Piniero
Just prior to today's games, I would put the odds against each NL team winning the pennant at
Cardinals 1.6 - 1
Dodgers 3.2 - 1
Phillies 4.2 - 1
Rockies 4.6 to 1
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Dave, do you have some numbers to convince me that the Cards' bullpen isn't as unreliable as they've seemed of late, especially tonight, blowing Wainwright's 20th?
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Dave, do you have some numbers to convince me that the Cards' bullpen isn't as unreliable as they've seemed of late, especially tonight, blowing Wainwright's 20th?
No!
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Dave, do you have some numbers to convince me that the Cards' bullpen isn't as unreliable as they've seemed of late, especially tonight, blowing Wainwright's 20th?
No!
fuuuuuuuuuudge.
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I've counted the Twins out at least 5 times this year. Why do I always do that? Haven't I learned that the Twins could be 30 games behind 1st and still manage to contend at the end?
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I've counted the Twins out at least 5 times this year. Why do I always do that? Haven't I learned that the Twins could be 30 games behind 1st and still manage to contend at the end?
It's absolutely unreal. Of course, I live in mortal terror of the Yankees, but we'll cross that bridge when (if) we get to it.
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I've counted the Twins out at least 5 times this year. Why do I always do that? Haven't I learned that the Twins could be 30 games behind 1st and still manage to contend at the end?
It's absolutely unreal. Of course, I live in mortal terror of the Yankees, but we'll cross that bridge when (if) we get to it.
I'm just excited there's a one game playoff.
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Twins! wowza what a finish. and goodbye MetroDumb. Although I have been caught up w/ all of the dome related stories lately that I'll kind of miss the old tupperware container with the swastika in the roof:
(http://deadspin.com/archives/swastika.jpg)
I've counted the Twins out at least 5 times this year. Why do I always do that? Haven't I learned that the Twins could be 30 games behind 1st and still manage to contend at the end?
It's absolutely unreal. Of course, I live in mortal terror of the Yankees, but we'll cross that bridge when (if) we get to it.
I'm just excited there's a one game playoff.
One other stadium anecdote is that there is a bar in downtown MPLS called Lee's Liquor Lounge that books rockabilly and local bands. The problem w/ Lee's is that you could never find it; it's behind the city's sanitation facility on the other side of the interstate. Its' difficult location added to it's appeal, in a way. In any case, the new outdoor stadium will make Lee's one of the closest bars to the entrance gates of the new park. I'm happy for the place and can't wait to experience the new and improved Lee's as a sort of social experiment to see what shakes out.
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After vowing that I was all but done with Dodger Stadium, I am going to Thursday's Cards/Dodgers game! Here's hoping I don't get razored. Emotions will be running high.
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After vowing that I was all but done with Dodger Stadium, I am going to Thursday's Cards/Dodgers game! Here's hoping I don't get razored. Emotions will be running high.
Don't fall in Chavez Ravine.
Whatever that is.
I mean a ravine.
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I hope the new Twins ballpark has a weird-looking infield.
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After vowing that I was all but done with Dodger Stadium, I am going to Thursday's Cards/Dodgers game! Here's hoping I don't get razored. Emotions will be running high.
Be safe. Will you dare wear Cards gear or just observe politely?
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After vowing that I was all but done with Dodger Stadium, I am going to Thursday's Cards/Dodgers game! Here's hoping I don't get razored. Emotions will be running high.
Be safe. Will you dare wear Cards gear or just observe politely?
Oh, I will reprazent. It's the playoffs ferchrissakes.
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After vowing that I was all but done with Dodger Stadium, I am going to Thursday's Cards/Dodgers game! Here's hoping I don't get razored. Emotions will be running high.
Be safe. Will you dare wear Cards gear or just observe politely?
Oh, I will reprazent. It's the playoffs ferchrissakes.
I know. I'm just afraid Dodgers fans will also represent, with sharp things.
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Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllll, not a good start to the postseason from my perspective. Even more worrisome than the Cards' bullpen is their complete lack of bench production.
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That was quick and mostly painless. I'd love to see the Twins lock up Mauer and sign a decent second baseman so we can go into the new stadium with hopes of winning more than weakest division in baseball. Hudson, Polanco, Sanchez and Iwamura will all be free agents so they should be able to get one of those guys if they don't sit on their hands. Just gotta get it into Gardenhire's head that Punto is nothing more than a defensive replacement. He might be a ballplayer but he sure isn't anywhere near a good one.
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Wow, 3 sweeps. At least 2 of them were teams I hate. Guess I have to pull for the Angels and Rockies now.
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I'm going Phillies and Angels but this Yankees lineup doesn't disgust me as much as ones of the past. I've always liked Jeter and Tex and I even like ARod. There's nobody on the team that's really unlikable other than the fact that they are Yankees. The Red Sox are the team that I really hate.
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The Rockies are my team but I think the Phillies are good people. They have the right kind of hatred of New York. Boston hates New York because they think they should *be* New York. They just want to be the new ruling class. But the Phillies are a more revolutionary team, that would remake baseball and redistribute the land among the people. I don't think I'm reading to much into this.
This series makes me uncomfortable as it did in 2007, as I find myself wishing that the Phillies choke on their hoagies and forfeit.
I'm going Phillies and Angels but this Yankees lineup doesn't disgust me as much as ones of the past. I've always liked Jeter and Tex and I even like ARod. There's nobody on the team that's really unlikable other than the fact that they are Yankees. The Red Sox are the team that I really hate.
I could never warm to A-Rod. He's just not likeable. I'm glad he's doing well this postseason, though. I don't hate him, and that kind of irrational "he chokes in the postseason" talk annoys me. And isn't Nick Swisher is annoying?
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I don't think I'm reading to much into this.
I think you might be. Philadelphia wishes it could be New York just as much as Boston does. However, I do have grudging respect for Philly sports fans because they support their teams regardless of the circumstances. They can be cruel and cantankerous, but they care.
Anyway, I'm rooting for the Angels from here on out. They're the only team remaining that I can stand.
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"to" much. Jesus.
* and I can understand not being a fan of the Phillies (or the Rockies for that matter), but I don't see not being able to stand either. Unless you're a Mets fan, who should of course hate the Phillies.
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Oh. And nothing too bad's gone against the side I'm for. But there have been so many shitty calls by umpires in these playoffs, I'm starting to favor reducing the role their judgment has. I guess I don't care as much during regular seasons or during playoffs I don't pay as much attention to. It's not a matter of opinion whether a ball is fair or foul, or a ball or strike, etc. The human element should be the skills of players. Seems stupid not to fix something that's clearly broken, in order to protect "tradition."
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Phillies/Rockies ended at about 2:15 AM on the east coast. And the game switched channels midway through. The MLB actually wants people to watch these games, right?
I like that Joe Blanton wore exactly the same uniform he'd wear in mid-July last night in apparently the coldest postseason game ever.
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i swore i'd never talk about baseball ever again, but i will say that I am holding a grudge against the phillies because their fans booed a very kind-hearted, sensitive friend of mine this season when he sang God Bless America for them.
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That was not a fun loss. But I'll still be pulling for the Phils against LA.
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i swore i'd never talk about baseball ever again, but i will say that I am holding a grudge against the phillies because their fans booed a very kind-hearted, sensitive friend of mine this season when he sang God Bless America for them.
of course I'm holding a much bigger grudge against the Dodgers. I guess the Angels are my team now.
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A friend of mine from Philly just sent me this; I feel a sick compulsion to share.
"What's the difference between a New York Met's hot dog and a Phillie's hot dog? You can get Phillies hot dogs in October!!!!"
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here here.
That was quick and mostly painless. I'd love to see the Twins lock up Mauer and sign a decent second baseman so we can go into the new stadium with hopes of winning more than weakest division in baseball. Hudson, Polanco, Sanchez and Iwamura will all be free agents so they should be able to get one of those guys if they don't sit on their hands. Just gotta get it into Gardenhire's head that Punto is nothing more than a defensive replacement. He might be a ballplayer but he sure isn't anywhere near a good one.
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The calculations are official; here's my top 20 picks for NL MVP
1) Pujols, Albert 1B STL
2) Ramirez, Hanley SS FLA
3) Braun, Ryan J. LF MIL
4) Kemp, Matt CF LA
5) Fielder, Prince 1B MIL
6) Holliday, Matt LF STL
7) Bourn, Michael CF HOU
8) Tulowitzki, Troy SS COL
9) Howard, Ryan 1B PHI
10) Sandoval, Pablo 1B SF
11) Reynolds, Mark 3B ARI
12) Upton, Justin RF ARI
13) Utley, Chase 2B PHI
14) Lee, Derrek 1B CHC
15) Morgan, Nyjer LF WAS
16) Wright, David 3B NYM
17) Werth, Jayson RF PHI
18) Votto, Joey 1B CIN
19) Lee, Carlos N. LF HOU
20) Zimmerman, Ryan 3B WAS
And my top 20 pitchers
1) Carpenter, Chris SP STL
2) Lincecum, Tim SP SF
3) Vazquez, Javier SP ATL
4) Haren, Dan SP ARI
5) Wainwright, Adam SP STL
6) Broxton, Jonathan RP LA
7) Bell, Heath RP SD
8) Jurrjens, Jair SP ATL
9) Cain, Matt SP SF
10) Lilly, Ted SP CHC
11) Hoffman, Trevor RP MIL
12) Wolf, Randy SP LA
13) Johnson, Josh SP FLA
14) Pineiro, Joel SP STL
15) Street, Huston RP COL
16) Franklin, Ryan RP STL
17) Wilson, Brian RP SF
18) Rodriguez, Wandy SP HOU
19) Lee, Cliff SP PHI
20) Jimenez, Ubaldo SP COL
and for fun, my worst 20 NL pitchers; seriously, how do these guys keep a job?
112) Davis, Doug SP ARI
113) Putz, J.J. RP NYM
114) Young, Chris R. SP SD
115) Villanueva, Carlos SP MIL
116) Webb, Brandon SP ARI
117) Lehr, Justin RP CIN
118) Corpas, Manny RP COL
119) Volstad, Chris SP FLA
120) Looper, Braden SP MIL
121) Hanrahan, Joel RP PIT
122) Miller, Andrew SP FLA
123) Geary, Geoff RP HOU
124) Smoltz, John SP STL
125) Pelfrey, Mike SP NYM
126) Owings, Micah SP CIN
127) Silva, Walter RP SD
128) Olsen, Scott SP WAS
129) Carrasco, Carlos SP CLE
130) Suppan, Jeff SP MIL
131) Parra, Manny SP MIL
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Dave--I think part of Pelfrey's struggles were due to having an tremendously bad infield defense behind him for much of the season. Even allowing for that, though, I admit he regressed big time. Their entire pitching staff did, just walking every body in the ballpark. I have no idea how Dan Warthen (Mets pitching coach) still has a job.
Also, regarding that hot dog joke, nice to the see Phillies fans exhibiting such hubris. I see no way that could possibly come back on them some day.
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Success is fleeting. So I say let the Phillies and their fans revel in theirs while they can.
Besides it's not as if Philadelphia has a sterling record of sporting achievements.
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and for fun, my worst 20 NL pitchers; seriously, how do these guys keep a job?
116) Webb, Brandon SP ARI
Obviously due to injury.
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Most of those in the bottom are pitchers who were top prospects at one time or had one good year so they keep a job based on their outliers rather than their actual talent. Smoltz and Webb are two guys who don't belong there but the rest probably do and will most likely have some kind of a job on a bad team next year.
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Faaaaaaaaaaaaaack
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Most of those in the bottom are pitchers who were top prospects at one time or had one good year so they keep a job based on their outliers rather than their actual talent. Smoltz and Webb are two guys who don't belong there but the rest probably do and will most likely have some kind of a job on a bad team next year.
I am not making value judgements or trying to predict the future; I am just applying a formula I developed to assess their level of achievement in the recently completed season.
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Most of those in the bottom are pitchers who were top prospects at one time or had one good year so they keep a job based on their outliers rather than their actual talent. Smoltz and Webb are two guys who don't belong there but the rest probably do and will most likely have some kind of a job on a bad team next year.
I am not making value judgements or trying to predict the future; I am just applying a formula I developed to assess their level of achievement in the recently completed season.
I know, I was just confirming your comment that most of those pitchers shouldn't have jobs.
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well, it's over (thank god). Wainwright and Molina got deserved gold gloves, and we'll see about the Cy Young next week.
What compelled me to bring this thread back to life was this bit of awesomeness. Now if only ESPN Classic would show the game.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUhSYLRw14[/youtube]
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supposedly there's no footage of that game. but there's a radio call, if that video is to be believed. great stuff
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That is a cool video. It's a wonder more baseball players don't ingest recreational drugs before games.
Incidentally, I've always heard that Bob Prince himself often dropped acid before broadcasting Pirates games.
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What's the deal with Sammy Sosa's skin? I've never heard of a baseball player's appearance changing suddenly for no reason like that.
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What's the deal with Sammy Sosa's skin? I've never heard of a baseball player's appearance changing suddenly for no reason like that.
I think the claim is it's some sort of treatment to clean up sun damaged skin.